X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread

[mastroego]

Engine fixes doesn't just mean performance, it means fixes that couldn't be done without reworking the engine.

 

[Grunker]

He honestly sounds he's just real bad. I didn't notice that much of a difference in mission urgency, and a lot of the best content is in WotC.

I suspect that, despite liking the tactical aspects of IE game combat, we have substantial differences in taste.

I agree he doesn't sound skilled, but his comments regarding what I care about - focus, bloat, core gameplay - resonate with me. My tastes skew very much to the "do less but do it better" side of the "less, better - more, worse" spectrum.

But hey, if it's a good experience and I end up playing some variant of WotC I will circle back here for posterity. There has to be other weirdos like me who are interested in the original game experience and are weighing that vs the expansion.

I mean, when he says shit like this:

Need supplies? In the 3 days it takes you to collect them, six different MUST-DO missions will pop up and force you all around the world. Did you do the missions perfectly? Well your soldiers are still tired and need to rest for multiple days- forcing you to cycle down to less qualified soldiers

Massive warning signs go off for me:

1) Firstly, these must-do missions are not must-do. You can fail them. But if you keep failing, your game will go to shit. That's because the game doesn't hand you victory on a silver platter. So this is deffo a git gud point to some extend.

2) Secondly, and much worse, the complaint that his soldiers can't be reused is BAFFLING. This game is *not great* about making sure you use a broad variety of your squad, but it is a little bit better than some other nuXCOM-likes. This is one of the games main strengths - that it actually DOES bench your dudes long enough that having a deeper roster than 4 main guys is actually rewarded. How this in any way, shape or form could be construed as a negative point is completely wild unless you're the kind of casual who would like to just please spam your 4 best, highest level soldiers please and never go on missions with anything but the most optimal team.

 

[agris]

While doing that, I found this highly literate review of WotC on steam:

for all his literacy, he's expressing serious skill issues
that's a man that got filtered by difficulty

War of the Chosen injects a boatload of plot elements, forced missions, and additional enemies into the base X-COM 2 game. However, these plots are not well paced or placed, within the campaign itself. The first five to six hours of the game feels like 100% on rails tutorials, and unfortunately, this expansion adds so many encounters that are time-sensitive and potentially game-ending if they are not completed, that it makes picking and choosing where and how you fight far more difficult. Not difficult in a 'oh, this is challenging' way, but difficult in a "Why do I have no choice?" sort of way.

[...]

They ply cinematics and plot on you about the Chosen (new enemy bosses that are styled after anime characters, and constantly badger you with anime-like monologues about how evil they are) VERY heavily at the start of the game.

That was enough to make me question if I wanted to play with it, and ultimately I decided against it.

Grunker can you expand on what makes some of the WotC content "the best"?

edit: hah, just saw your post. I don't disagree with the points you're making, but notice the issues you took with his writeup are not the issues which resonated with me.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

the time limits are indeed annoying, but they are doable. The time limit does pause when you enter into combat with a chosen too, which is a bit gamey but understandable.
Overall though I agree that time limits were a mistake; they an artificial way to increase the difficulty, as it was too easy to game the system in EU because of the silly pod mechanic and overwatch crawl.

My issue with the strategy layer wasn't so much that it was hard or urgent, but because there is just too much shit happening at once.
Like, you're scanning a site, but then you have to stop what you're doing to do a mission. So you go back to scanning, but then you have to another mission. And then after you do that mission and are about to complete the scan, you suddenly get yet another pop up about a facility or a dark event or the avatar progress or delay, which of course takes control away from you to slowly pan towards the little marker.

After a few hours of that in a row, it gets a bit annoying. I guess the term is mental exhaustion? There's just too much going on.

 

[Grunker]

Grunker can you expand on what makes some of the WotC content "the best"?

The new soldiers types are very fun and feel like they complete the game. The additional mission variety is sorely needed, as is the additional enemy variety, especially with ADVENT.

Chosen have issues and it's very 50/50 whether people enjoy them - I do (as, again, the game needs the variety), but even if I didn't, I wouldn't lose the above + mod access to avoid them. Especially as there are mods that change them.

The faction missions are pretty fun as well.

 

[Grunker]

The time limits are an inelegant solution that other games have done better (Chaos Gate for instance), but they do solve a real problem. Before them, the only correct way to play the game were a tedious move-a-few-steps-and-overwatch-spam that was incredibly boring.

 

[agris]

The time limits are an inelegant solution that other games have done better (Chaos Gate for instance), but they do solve a real problem. Before them, the only correct way to play the game were a tedious move-a-few-steps-and-overwatch-spam that was incredibly boring.

hmmm, "the only correct way"? did you rest after almost all encounters in IE games too?

we have agency, just because something can be exploited doesn't mean it has to be

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yes, I acknowledge that they are solution to a problem, but that problem was created by Firaxis to begin with when they introduced that silly pod system with the free moves. Bad design begets bad design, I suppose.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Grunker can you expand on what makes some of the WotC content "the best"?

The new soldiers types are very fun and feel like they complete the game. The additional mission variety is sorely needed, as is the additional enemy variety, especially with ADVENT.

I absolutely love templars. They have the potential to be the most broken class type in the game.
If you luck out and get one that has access to ranger abilities through the training school or whatever it is called, you can create a soldier that is basically immune to most attacks and can just solo entire encounters.

Reapers are pretty filthy too. They actually make stealth gameplay viable and you can troll the enemy with their traps and environment destruction.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Agris m8, do not skip WotC.

 

[agris]

Grunker can you expand on what makes some of the WotC content "the best"?

The new soldiers types are very fun and feel like they complete the game. The additional mission variety is sorely needed, as is the additional enemy variety, especially with ADVENT.

I absolutely love templars. They have the potential to be the most broken class type in the game.
If you luck out and get one that has access to ranger abilities through the training school or whatever it is called, you can create a soldier that is basically immune to most attacks and can just solo entire encounters.

Reapers are pretty filthy too. They actually make stealth gameplay viable and you can troll the enemy with their traps and environment destruction.

sounds highly tactical!

 

[agris]

Agris m8, do not skip WotC.

i'm stubborn. i'll say this: I'll try wotc not only if i love the vanilla, but also if i bounce off of it because it "feels incomplete" or like playing is a rote chore of overwatch creep.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Hello fellow autists.

Given the sale (-95% off), I just bought the complete version. Wotc looks like garbage, so I'm playing vanilla

First stupid mistake.

 

[Zombra]

I agree WotC is worth seeing. There is some "on rails" stuff but it's fine - the game is still dozens of hours long and most of that time you're still doing the main gameplay thing of "try to get things done before more missions pop up". "Forced" missions aside, having the Chosen show up unexpectedly in missions makes the tactical layer more interesting.

BUT that's not why I'm posting. One thing to know is that there is some game option called "integrated DLC" or something like that, which is supposed to make it fit more smoothly into the campaign? Turn that OFF. I regretted using it because it seems to simply remove certain missions and plot hooks. By the time I figured it out my playthrough was too far along to start over.

 

[agris]

I agree WotC is worth seeing. There is some "on rails" stuff but it's fine - the game is still dozens of hours long and most of that time you're still doing the main gameplay thing of "try to get things done before more missions pop up". "Forced" missions aside, having the Chosen show up unexpectedly in missions makes the tactical layer more interesting.

BUT that's not why I'm posting. One thing to know is that there is some game option called "integrated DLC" or something like that, which is supposed to make it fit more smoothly into the campaign? Turn that OFF. I regretted using it because it seems to simply remove certain missions and plot hooks. By the time I figured it out my playthrough was too far along to start over.

btw, apparently i started collecting files to play this way back when. found your character pool and am using it, thanks for posting that!

 

[jackofshadows]

I'd say the only WotC downside is that it's you know, a tiny little ONEME.

 

[whydoibother]

I also haven't played the DLC. What are these Chosen exactly?

 

[agris]

I also haven't played the DLC. What are these Chosen exactly?

3 henchmen of the ethereals who act as continent bosses who you collect "intel" resources on on the strategy level to uncover and kill, until then on the tactical level they'll they keep randomly popping in during missions in their territory, good fun
one's a bladed assasin type with ninjutsu, one's a dickass thief type with a sniper rifle, third's a wizard
rooting them out rewards you with their swag and puts an end to them constantly sending you hateful videomail

do these new enemies and the way they're portrayed / rolled out feel like a children cartoon or anime-ish to you?

 

[mastroego]

agris.
Seriously.

If you want a more "grounded" game, go for XCOM 1 + Long War mod + Long War Rebalance modmod *.
If you want more craziness and mindless fun, then XCOM 2 + WotC + handpicked selection of mods.


* keep in mind that Rebalance gets updates and revisions constantly.
You have to pick a version and stick with it for a while.
There are step backs, occasionally, but in average it keeps improving on the (by now almost ancient) Long War framework.

 

[ArchAngel]

I was about to say, WotC comes with serious engine fixes.

Which is why I never bought it. I refused to spend money on engine bug fixes.

 

[ArchAngel]

I also haven't played the DLC. What are these Chosen exactly?

3 henchmen of the ethereals who act as continent bosses who you collect "intel" resources on on the strategy level to uncover and kill, until then on the tactical level they'll they keep randomly popping in during missions in their territory, good fun
one's a bladed assasin type with ninjutsu, one's a dickass thief type with a sniper rifle, third's a wizard
rooting them out rewards you with their swag and puts an end to them constantly sending you hateful videomail

do these new enemies and the way they're portrayed / rolled out feel like a children cartoon or anime-ish to you?

They are hilariously bad and cringe.

 

[ArchAngel]

I'd say the only WotC downside is that it's you know, a tiny little ONEME.

Only upside is engine fixes. Which should been free update for Xcom2 vanilla.

 

[ArchAngel]

I've finished Xcom 2 vanilla on Legendary/Ironman and I've finished Xcom 2 WotC on same difficulty. Expansion is noticeably easier game. It is much easier at start due to new busted characters. Start with Templar and you never need to redo first mission ever again. And Chosen were super cringe and irritating and as soon as you kill them you get their weapons that makes already super easy end game even easier and pointless. You might as well click I win button as soon as you kill last Chosen.
Also Zombies didn't bring anything good except too long bad missions.

 

[agris]

If you want a more "grounded" game, go for XCOM 1 + Long War mod + Long War Rebalance modmod *.
If you want more craziness and mindless fun, then XCOM 2 + WotC + handpicked selection of mods.

Thanks, this wasn’t evident to me. I thought base X2 was plenty grounded.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Grunker can you expand on what makes some of the WotC content "the best"?

The new soldiers types are very fun and feel like they complete the game. The additional mission variety is sorely needed, as is the additional enemy variety, especially with ADVENT.

I absolutely love templars. They have the potential to be the most broken class type in the game.
If you luck out and get one that has access to ranger abilities through the training school or whatever it is called, you can create a soldier that is basically immune to most attacks and can just solo entire encounters.

Reapers are pretty filthy too. They actually make stealth gameplay viable and you can troll the enemy with their traps and environment destruction.

sounds highly tactical!

I know you're being sarcastic, but as tactical games go Firaxcom isn't it. Yes, there are supposed to be tactics in the form of flanking, but due to how maps are designed and how the pod mechanic works, it's more efficient to just destroy cover with grenades and use your soldiers' gear and abilities to win fights. Which, funnily enough, is sort of strategic in itself as you have to work out various synergies, loadouts and combos. I guess its more like a card based game without the cards, in that respect?

If you're looking for a deep squad based tactical game this isn't it. If it weren't for the perma death it would be a pretty casual foray into tactics games.