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X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread
- Thread starter Morgoth
- Start date
There's no dating sim. He's talking about the "bonding" thing.
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico
Arcane
Same shit, slightly different flavor.
Been putting time into the base game this last week. Still finding it pretty difficult even on Veteran, and the savescumming temptation is a little unreal (along with the load times). Some bad RNG and an unfortunate pod activation can wipe your best team and tank the run. Playing casually and barely understand the strategic side of things yet, but it feels like there’s no real downtime to recoup from losses. Resources and recruits seem a little too valuable, and scumming save-states ad nauseam at harder moments is no fun.
I started with the base because I heard the xpac adds some layers of complexity; what’s the konsensus on WOTC if I’m willing to stomach supaheroes, I hear the load times are far better. Playing on PS as my PC wouldn’t be able to handle it, so no mods unfortunately.
I started with the base because I heard the xpac adds some layers of complexity; what’s the konsensus on WOTC if I’m willing to stomach supaheroes, I hear the load times are far better. Playing on PS as my PC wouldn’t be able to handle it, so no mods unfortunately.
ind33d
Learned
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2020
- Messages
- 1,807
the constant cutscenes and Lost missions make iron man unbelievably fucking irritating. i don't know what the fuck firaxis were thinking
xcom 3 would have been sick taking the fight to the xeno homeworld, but we can't have nice things
Zeriel
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2012
- Messages
- 13,967
They seem to have gotten progressively retarded after XCOM 1. I guess Jake Solomon was holding them in check or something and he either got tired of it or changed his own mind? But you can see the progression quite clearly. XCOM 2 started to add all this superhero, highly scripted bullshit and lost a lot of content (i.e different UFO types and missions, the airgame, on and on), but it was still pretty good and enjoyable, then the expansion went more in that direction, and along comes Chimera Squad with the absolute shit-squatting deployment of cancer. I'll give them credit for the breach system, maybe, it's interesting though I wouldn't be sure I'd want it permanently in XCOM, but aside from that if it was a sign of the future of the franchise then we were already fucked.
After that, Midnight Suns was a huge flop and Jake left, so who knows if XCOM is an active franchise anymore.
Assisted Living Godzilla
Prophet
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2017
- Messages
- 4,633
It seems to have made enough money that they’ll keep doing XCOM. Although they’ll probably need to build a new XCOM team since I think all those guys (including the Chimera Squad team) left with Jake Solomon. I could see them trying something like The Bureau: XCOM Declassified again in the meantime if Take-Two has some developer that can handle it.
If Ken Levine wasn’t seemingly up his own ass he could do an XCOM game. He does still work for Take-Two after all. Given Freedom Force he probably should’ve done the Marvel game too.
If Ken Levine wasn’t seemingly up his own ass he could do an XCOM game. He does still work for Take-Two after all. Given Freedom Force he probably should’ve done the Marvel game too.
Superheroes have ruined and crashed Western Civilization, what is XCOM in comparison?
Superheroes are to XCom what Baldur's Gate 3 is to Dragon Age: Origins!
Assisted Living Godzilla
Prophet
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2017
- Messages
- 4,633
X-COM is practically Team-X from the X-Men fighting aliens.
I’m almost surprised the Midnight Suns game wasn’t just XCOM with demons and the superheroes as more well-defined “classes” that had to be managed more. The XCOM forumla is basically perfect for a superhero game. You got a bunch of superheroes at a base, you have threats around the world or in some city, the superheroes get called in to stop them. The formula is so perfect for a superhero game it’s fucking weird the XCOM team didn’t keep it when they got a Marvel game; even if they did want to do something different with the combat. It’s even kind of funny because that Marvel’s Avengers game almost seems like the base aspect was originally conceived to function like XCOM.
I’m almost surprised the Midnight Suns game wasn’t just XCOM with demons and the superheroes as more well-defined “classes” that had to be managed more. The XCOM forumla is basically perfect for a superhero game. You got a bunch of superheroes at a base, you have threats around the world or in some city, the superheroes get called in to stop them. The formula is so perfect for a superhero game it’s fucking weird the XCOM team didn’t keep it when they got a Marvel game; even if they did want to do something different with the combat. It’s even kind of funny because that Marvel’s Avengers game almost seems like the base aspect was originally conceived to function like XCOM.
oldbonebrown
Arcane
What the formula should be used for is an Al-Qaeda game
Setting up and managing hideouts and a main base to use as staging points to strike against infidel invaders.
Setting up and managing hideouts and a main base to use as staging points to strike against infidel invaders.
The Allahu Akbar total conversion mod.
Indeed! They could have slapped the geoscape of XCOM, with some changes, and get rid of the horrible psychotherapist and walking simulator minigames of Midnight Suns.
CthuluIsSpy
Arcane
X-COM did start as a parody of GI Joe, iirc.
You have a bunch of elite, highly trained warriors with fancy gear and vehicles flying around to save the day...and instantly get bodied because the American cartoon they don't have several layers of plot armour.
Can you heroes even die permanently in Midnight Suns? Or did they cop out like in Chimera and just have the mission instantly fail if you lose a soldier?
You have a bunch of elite, highly trained warriors with fancy gear and vehicles flying around to save the day...and instantly get bodied because the American cartoon they don't have several layers of plot armour.
Can you heroes even die permanently in Midnight Suns? Or did they cop out like in Chimera and just have the mission instantly fail if you lose a soldier?
Assisted Living Godzilla
Prophet
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2017
- Messages
- 4,633
All I’ve ever really heard them talk about is that ‘70s Gerry & Sylvia Anderson UFO TV show. Which I see is now on Freevee, so I’ll have to watch it some time soon.
Aesthetically, and the original X-COM has a very comic book styled opening with panel inserts, it seems to be influenced by the Image comic guy’s Marvel and Image work. Most specifically Jim Lee. I used to think it was mainly Masamune Shirow, and he could still be an influence too, but those Image guys were very clearly in love with Masamune Shirow and probably all reading the late ‘80s Eclipse Appleseed reprints with the Art Adams covers. You look at the Personal Armor in X-COM it’s basically Team X or Cable in all black. The X-COM Muton basically looks like Maul from WildCATS...WildCATS is also basically X-COM.
Aesthetically, and the original X-COM has a very comic book styled opening with panel inserts, it seems to be influenced by the Image comic guy’s Marvel and Image work. Most specifically Jim Lee. I used to think it was mainly Masamune Shirow, and he could still be an influence too, but those Image guys were very clearly in love with Masamune Shirow and probably all reading the late ‘80s Eclipse Appleseed reprints with the Art Adams covers. You look at the Personal Armor in X-COM it’s basically Team X or Cable in all black. The X-COM Muton basically looks like Maul from WildCATS...WildCATS is also basically X-COM.
oldbonebrown
Arcane
Any terrorist organization would work well, an IRA version of x-com also sounds good. But the use of new recruits as suicide bombers might give Al-Qaeda the edge.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2004
- Messages
- 6,927
Hello fellow autists.
Given the sale (-95% off), I just bought the complete version. Wotc looks like garbage, so I'm playing vanilla + shen's last gift. Eyestabber wrote a great guide to modding, but unfortunately it's mostly WotC-specific content.
Since this is my one and likely only playthrough, I'm not doing content or balance mods, just QoL shit. I've got a good mod setup, but one thing is bugging me: I can't find any non-WotC version of Detailed Soldier List. The unmodded presentation of soldiers is laughable, I need more data! Thankfully I've got a decent squad deployment mod, so actually deploying soldiers shouldn't be a pain, but managing my overall roster will be without additional soldier stats exposed at the overview level.
can anyone point me to something that shows more soldier data in the armory and doesn't require WotC? i'm increasingly convinced that it doesn't exist.
Given the sale (-95% off), I just bought the complete version. Wotc looks like garbage, so I'm playing vanilla + shen's last gift. Eyestabber wrote a great guide to modding, but unfortunately it's mostly WotC-specific content.
Since this is my one and likely only playthrough, I'm not doing content or balance mods, just QoL shit. I've got a good mod setup, but one thing is bugging me: I can't find any non-WotC version of Detailed Soldier List. The unmodded presentation of soldiers is laughable, I need more data! Thankfully I've got a decent squad deployment mod, so actually deploying soldiers shouldn't be a pain, but managing my overall roster will be without additional soldier stats exposed at the overview level.
can anyone point me to something that shows more soldier data in the armory and doesn't require WotC? i'm increasingly convinced that it doesn't exist.
Why don't you want to play WotC? I mean I dunno if it's amazing or anything but it's as least as good as the base content I'd say
You shouldn't skip WoTC. Regardless of the content, a lot of the engine/UI fixes have not been ported back to the base game.
Also, as you found out, 0% of the recent mods don't rely on WoTC.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2004
- Messages
- 6,927
A couple of things. First off, if I really enjoy vanilla, I'll move on to WotC (probably LWotC, actually). But anytime I buy a complete edition, I go through the DLC packs to decide what to enable or not. Usually these include pre-release or ptw-type items that make the game easier, which I disable.
While doing that, I found this highly literate review of WotC on steam:
War of the Chosen injects a boatload of plot elements, forced missions, and additional enemies into the base X-COM 2 game. However, these plots are not well paced or placed, within the campaign itself. The first five to six hours of the game feels like 100% on rails tutorials, and unfortunately, this expansion adds so many encounters that are time-sensitive and potentially game-ending if they are not completed, that it makes picking and choosing where and how you fight far more difficult. Not difficult in a 'oh, this is challenging' way, but difficult in a "Why do I have no choice?" sort of way.
This expansion adds several new character classes that you will be able to unlock and recruit by mid-way through the game. You get one default 'plot' character from each new class type that interact with one another in a very cheesey 1980's sort of way- two factions rival each other for decades, but Central states "We should work together to defeat the aliens!" And magically decades of anger and rivalry subside for jolly cooperation. No one bothered to say those simple words before? This worked in the original X-Com because the cinematics came during key research moments- and discovering Psionics, Gene Therapy and MECS (In Enemy Within expansion) pumped you up and made you feel as though you were making tangible progress against the alien threat. Now, Psionics is its own class (other soldiers cannot combine their class abilities with psionic abilities, and the game forces you to build so many plot-required buildings that you likely will not get psionic troops until late game) there is no gene therapy for your troops (which makes sense considering the plot of the game) and MEC's are replaced by a DLC which gives you 'SPARKS,' mechanized robot troops.
They ply cinematics and plot on you about the Chosen (new enemy bosses that are styled after anime characters, and constantly badger you with anime-like monologues about how evil they are) VERY heavily at the start of the game. Once again, it makes the first several hours of the game feel like an FMV game such as Wing Commander rather than you commanding a genuine resistance movement. They apply a great deal of things for you to do right at the beginning of the game, which makes your options for choosing where and what you want to do exceptionally narrow. The game begins to feel more like another review stated: "On rails."
I fell in love with X-Com back in 1995 because it was the antithesis of 'on rails.' Each new alien discovery, capture, randomized map encounter and technology researched, felt so dynamic and natural. Reverse-engineering laser rifles and selling them to third world countries to fund my private military was beautiful. I didn't immediately quit the game or lose my mind when a few squad members died, as I knew the price of freedom would be to water the tree of X-Com with patriots. However, the tiny squadsize in new X-Com combined with the constant time-sensitive/plot-focused missions in WOTC means that losing a couple of soldiers in a mission may very well ruin your entire run. Yes, it makes you 'feel the loss' more, but not in an engaging or immersive way- you always feel like you're fighting against dice rolls and random elements rather than thinking tactically combat and moving strategically on the resistance map.
Need supplies? In the 3 days it takes you to collect them, six different MUST-DO missions will pop up and force you all around the world. Did you do the missions perfectly? Well your soldiers are still tired and need to rest for multiple days- forcing you to cycle down to less qualified soldiers. Normally this is fine, as in previous X-Coms you can choose an easier encounter to train your lower-tier soldiers. In WOTC, the mission difficulty feels as though it scales to your primary squad's abilities, so sending out a group of squaddies to train up in combat is practically guaranteed to result in a severe loss of troops or a loss of the mission- there are very few missions after the start of the game which can be done for quick resource boosts and training for new soldiers.
Additionally, the "AVATAR PROJECT" element of the game requires serious tweaking- 3 in game months after the Avatar Project popped, it went to almost completion, forcing me to stop what very little breathing-space I was working with and spend all my resources to reduce its timer by two segments. 3 in-game days later, all that effort disappeared- the AVATAR PROJECT went up another two segments. Rather than adding an element of healthy resistance-force anxiety, it's just yet another series of actions that stifle your creative freedom to handle the resistance movement your own way- it is yet another one of very many forced missions that will prematurely end your game if you do not finish it.
I want to like this expansion. I've beaten it twice in the past and am currently returning to it after two years to play again- but the game is fighting me- it's as though it does not want me to have any fun unless I play it exactly like it wishes me to, and play the missions the game wants me to play, when it wants me to play them. The base elements of XCOM 2 were already very simple compared to the original X-COM's of the 1990's, the modern game is VERY streamlined. Rather than adding complexity, nuance, or any sort of free-form strategy and tactics to the game, they instead filled the game with 3 new soldier classes, multiple new enemy types, a boatload of required new missions, which actually exposes just how simple the game is- the additions do not make the game more complex, it simply adds even more insulation padding to make you feel even more constrained.
Once I finish my current run, I will likely not replay this until I have modified the absolute hell out of its many constraining parameters and add additional mods that diversify squad size, class types, and enable some breathing-space for coordinating strategically on the world-map and assist in adding additional tactical options during combat.
This expansion adds several new character classes that you will be able to unlock and recruit by mid-way through the game. You get one default 'plot' character from each new class type that interact with one another in a very cheesey 1980's sort of way- two factions rival each other for decades, but Central states "We should work together to defeat the aliens!" And magically decades of anger and rivalry subside for jolly cooperation. No one bothered to say those simple words before? This worked in the original X-Com because the cinematics came during key research moments- and discovering Psionics, Gene Therapy and MECS (In Enemy Within expansion) pumped you up and made you feel as though you were making tangible progress against the alien threat. Now, Psionics is its own class (other soldiers cannot combine their class abilities with psionic abilities, and the game forces you to build so many plot-required buildings that you likely will not get psionic troops until late game) there is no gene therapy for your troops (which makes sense considering the plot of the game) and MEC's are replaced by a DLC which gives you 'SPARKS,' mechanized robot troops.
They ply cinematics and plot on you about the Chosen (new enemy bosses that are styled after anime characters, and constantly badger you with anime-like monologues about how evil they are) VERY heavily at the start of the game. Once again, it makes the first several hours of the game feel like an FMV game such as Wing Commander rather than you commanding a genuine resistance movement. They apply a great deal of things for you to do right at the beginning of the game, which makes your options for choosing where and what you want to do exceptionally narrow. The game begins to feel more like another review stated: "On rails."
I fell in love with X-Com back in 1995 because it was the antithesis of 'on rails.' Each new alien discovery, capture, randomized map encounter and technology researched, felt so dynamic and natural. Reverse-engineering laser rifles and selling them to third world countries to fund my private military was beautiful. I didn't immediately quit the game or lose my mind when a few squad members died, as I knew the price of freedom would be to water the tree of X-Com with patriots. However, the tiny squadsize in new X-Com combined with the constant time-sensitive/plot-focused missions in WOTC means that losing a couple of soldiers in a mission may very well ruin your entire run. Yes, it makes you 'feel the loss' more, but not in an engaging or immersive way- you always feel like you're fighting against dice rolls and random elements rather than thinking tactically combat and moving strategically on the resistance map.
Need supplies? In the 3 days it takes you to collect them, six different MUST-DO missions will pop up and force you all around the world. Did you do the missions perfectly? Well your soldiers are still tired and need to rest for multiple days- forcing you to cycle down to less qualified soldiers. Normally this is fine, as in previous X-Coms you can choose an easier encounter to train your lower-tier soldiers. In WOTC, the mission difficulty feels as though it scales to your primary squad's abilities, so sending out a group of squaddies to train up in combat is practically guaranteed to result in a severe loss of troops or a loss of the mission- there are very few missions after the start of the game which can be done for quick resource boosts and training for new soldiers.
Additionally, the "AVATAR PROJECT" element of the game requires serious tweaking- 3 in game months after the Avatar Project popped, it went to almost completion, forcing me to stop what very little breathing-space I was working with and spend all my resources to reduce its timer by two segments. 3 in-game days later, all that effort disappeared- the AVATAR PROJECT went up another two segments. Rather than adding an element of healthy resistance-force anxiety, it's just yet another series of actions that stifle your creative freedom to handle the resistance movement your own way- it is yet another one of very many forced missions that will prematurely end your game if you do not finish it.
I want to like this expansion. I've beaten it twice in the past and am currently returning to it after two years to play again- but the game is fighting me- it's as though it does not want me to have any fun unless I play it exactly like it wishes me to, and play the missions the game wants me to play, when it wants me to play them. The base elements of XCOM 2 were already very simple compared to the original X-COM's of the 1990's, the modern game is VERY streamlined. Rather than adding complexity, nuance, or any sort of free-form strategy and tactics to the game, they instead filled the game with 3 new soldier classes, multiple new enemy types, a boatload of required new missions, which actually exposes just how simple the game is- the additions do not make the game more complex, it simply adds even more insulation padding to make you feel even more constrained.
Once I finish my current run, I will likely not replay this until I have modified the absolute hell out of its many constraining parameters and add additional mods that diversify squad size, class types, and enable some breathing-space for coordinating strategically on the world-map and assist in adding additional tactical options during combat.
The way it was written and the arguments presented against WotC convinced me that this player is somewhat like myself, so I took it seriously. A little more searching found similar sentiments (bloated, unfocused, non-aesthetic) were a minority, but persistent across the web. So, I'm skipping WotC.
I wasn't looking for a reason to disable WotC, just stumbled upon it. I decided against all the DLC except Shen's due a combination of looking at their feature lists and this review.
I have reviewed each DLC individually as they were released. As all 3 included in the season pass have been released my final verdict is that I would not recommend the Season Pass. In fact, I don’t recommend any DLC for Xcom 2 sadly. Here is a brief summary of each DLC from my experience:
---
#1 Anarchy’s Children: (Not Recommended at all)
This is the “Cosmetic” DLC. You get a bunch of wacky customization options for Xcom which are crude and unsuitable.
---
#2 Alien Hunters: (Not Recommended but lean towards “Neutral/Mixed”)
This DLC adds special boss fights. Something the game was lacking a little. While these scary monsters are challenging and intimidating they are just unfair. They take a turn after every action you take.
To “Counter” these fiends you get new weapons and armor in this DLC. There are 4 unique hunter weapons which while they are quite powerful the design is weird; as in fantasy flintlock revolvers in a sci-fi game weird. The new armor is also strange in the sense that you wear the skin of your enemies but admittedly the powers are amazing.
This DLC also adds a narrative mission in which officer Bradford comes on a cool mission with you in search of Doctor Vahlen which is an amazing and well done mission. Is very “spooky” and well themed.
Sadly, the DLC also adds wacky customization options such as freaky face paints and advent helmets.
---
#3 Shen’s Last Gift: (Not Recommended but only because of value for the content)
This DLC is good but you are pretty much only paying for an extra class. The price is steep too.
You get the “Spark” class which is a robotic MEC you can deploy in battle which levels up like a normal soldier and comes with new abilities & customization options. This is good but not for the price.
The most redeeming part of this DLC is the story mission. It’s a 3-part mission in which Lilly Shen joins you. The mission is full of dark comedy, drama, emotion & connects the Shen from the first Xcom to this game very well. It also includes a worthy boss fight, something which the game seems to have been lacking.
---
Overall I think that the Base Game is good enough and there’s a lot of great free content in the workshop you can access thanks to firaxis and various modders hard work. I feel like there’s something more to everyone’s tastes in the community workshop and hopefully it continues to grow. Although I have generally not liked the DLC too much I must say that Firaxis have delivered it timely and put some nice effort into the story aspects of it. I really enjoyed Xcom 2 and I hope to see a 3rd entry soon.
---
#1 Anarchy’s Children: (Not Recommended at all)
This is the “Cosmetic” DLC. You get a bunch of wacky customization options for Xcom which are crude and unsuitable.
---
#2 Alien Hunters: (Not Recommended but lean towards “Neutral/Mixed”)
This DLC adds special boss fights. Something the game was lacking a little. While these scary monsters are challenging and intimidating they are just unfair. They take a turn after every action you take.
To “Counter” these fiends you get new weapons and armor in this DLC. There are 4 unique hunter weapons which while they are quite powerful the design is weird; as in fantasy flintlock revolvers in a sci-fi game weird. The new armor is also strange in the sense that you wear the skin of your enemies but admittedly the powers are amazing.
This DLC also adds a narrative mission in which officer Bradford comes on a cool mission with you in search of Doctor Vahlen which is an amazing and well done mission. Is very “spooky” and well themed.
Sadly, the DLC also adds wacky customization options such as freaky face paints and advent helmets.
---
#3 Shen’s Last Gift: (Not Recommended but only because of value for the content)
This DLC is good but you are pretty much only paying for an extra class. The price is steep too.
You get the “Spark” class which is a robotic MEC you can deploy in battle which levels up like a normal soldier and comes with new abilities & customization options. This is good but not for the price.
The most redeeming part of this DLC is the story mission. It’s a 3-part mission in which Lilly Shen joins you. The mission is full of dark comedy, drama, emotion & connects the Shen from the first Xcom to this game very well. It also includes a worthy boss fight, something which the game seems to have been lacking.
---
Overall I think that the Base Game is good enough and there’s a lot of great free content in the workshop you can access thanks to firaxis and various modders hard work. I feel like there’s something more to everyone’s tastes in the community workshop and hopefully it continues to grow. Although I have generally not liked the DLC too much I must say that Firaxis have delivered it timely and put some nice effort into the story aspects of it. I really enjoyed Xcom 2 and I hope to see a 3rd entry soon.
Similar reasoning as above led me to believe this player is a good proxy for my tastes, so I'm sticking with only enabling Shen's for my first and perhaps only run.
That's why.
edit: normie & mastroego I think some of the engine-side fixes are handled by the community highlander, which I include. Performance improvements from upgrading the engine to WotC are somewhat irrelevant in 2024, this is a 7-8 year old game.
He honestly sounds like he's just real bad at the game. I didn't notice that much of a difference in mission urgency, and a lot of the best content is in WotC.
Some of the lack of variety he is criticizing he isn't wrong about, but that will only become worse if you play without WotC IMHO.
Some of the lack of variety he is criticizing he isn't wrong about, but that will only become worse if you play without WotC IMHO.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2004
- Messages
- 6,927
I suspect that, despite liking the tactical aspects of IE game combat, we have substantial differences in taste.
I agree he doesn't sound skilled, but his comments regarding what I care about - focus, bloat, core gameplay - resonate with me. My tastes skew very much to the "do less but do it better" side of the "less, better - more, worse" spectrum.
But hey, if it's a good experience and I end up playing some variant of WotC I will circle back here for posterity. There has to be other weirdos like me who are interested in the original game experience and are weighing that vs the expansion.
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