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X-Rebirth

Aurelius

Educated
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
92
I was kind of let down that Steam is mandatory for the game, good thing it's shit
:troll:

But seriously, this is fucking sad. I've got X3 and X3TC on release, and they were buggy as hell, but at least they were fun. X3TC 1.0 wasn't even that bad as far as I remember (might be "nostalgia", though); some audio files missing, some micro-stuttering and those hardcore as fuck kill missions with multiple Xenon capital ships spawning even on low fighting ranks.

I don't think they'll be able to recover from this, and even if they should, they'll probably keep dumbing the series down.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
9,268
Location
Italy
Post subject: X-Rebirth: The story of the failed console game
After so many threads, so many hours played in frustration and so many unanswered questions, I think the puzzle is slowly getting pieced together. I've done some research, and what I found was pretty sad, but it explains the vast majority of problems and questions. Namely, Rebirth was never meant to be a PC game. There is a reason why Rebirth plays and feels like a failed console port, because it is! I know this is old news for some, but many people still don't know this, so bear with me here.

(These are just my theories, not facts, so take them as such!)

We all know, that Rebirth was in development for 7 years, that means it started around 2005-2006. What else happened around that time? That's right, the release of X3:Reunion, the next major installment of the X franchise. Was it a commercial success? Not really, as around 2005 was the time space simulators as a genre went down the drain for good. What else happened in 2005? Oh yes, the start of the new console generation with the release of the Xbox 360 followed by PS3 a year later in 2006. After Reunion's pretty rocky launch plagued by heaps of bugs, problems and lackluster reviews, I think the Ego guys had to sit down and think about the future. Face it, the space sim genre was dead, and with the advent of the new console generation, PC gaming was in decline too. The prospects for the studio were dire at best.

Now, I don't know if it was the idea of the publisher, Deep Silver, or Egosoft itself, but quite understandably, they wanted a piece of that nice console pie, thus the development of TNBT ("The Next Big Thing", as it was called before it received the Rebirth name) started. Maybe Egosoft was forced into this by the publisher, I don't know. Either way, Egosoft was a PC-only dev team specialized in space sims, they knew nothing about console development or what a console game must be like. Obviously a game like Reunion was impossible to port over to consoles, so they had to come up with something else. Space games being the only thing they were good at, they started developing a space game for the Xbox. Obviously, the the controls had to be drastically cut back to fit on the controller, so that greatly limited what the new game could do in terms of gameplay. And of course they had to re-think everything else too, since their target auidence has dramatically changed. Console gamers wanted a totally different type of game than what PC sim players had. More arcadey, easy to pick up and play with flashy graphics, more colors, pretty explosion, more "smoke and mirrors" and minigames that keep you in front of the screen. Development on TNBT was taking shape. While they couldn't reveal this new project to the community, they had to keep funding up, so a portion of the dev team was allocated to shovel out some new X content for some cash infusion and thus TC was released. While heavily relying on the modders and the community to supply new content for the game (because they had most of the manpower allocated on TNBT), they puttered along on both fronts.

Now, what exactly took place next is quite unclear, but for some reason, the new console game's production hit a brick wall somewhere around 2010. Either it wasn't accepted by Microsoft for release, maybe the game failed to meet expectation or something else happened that prevented the game to be released on the console. This was a major blow for Egosoft and Deep Silver, since now they owned a more-or-less finished console game that was now worthless. I think after this Deep Silver still pushed for a release, since they didn't want 5 years of development funding to go to waste, so Egosoft started reworking the project and porting TNBT over to PC. In the spring of 2011 Deep Silver announced X-Rebirth for the PC and gave a release date for the fall of 2011. That was obviously far too optimistic, since even the worst console ports need way more than half a year to be finished. At this point I think Egosoft thought Rebirth was simply too console-y and fell way too far from the X series, so they started reworking the game mechanics to at least resemble an honest to god PC game. But missing so much with the canceled release, they needed another quick cash infusion, so they cobbled together Albion Prelude and tossed it out to get some more funds to finish the project, milking the X3 series for it's very last drops of sour milk. But as years passed and the hype started to vane, the devs turtled up in their shell with absolutely no news leaking out, the community slowly started to lose all faith, leaving the vaporware they were promised in 2011 for other games. Egosoft started to run out of options....and funding. Obviously there was no milking the X3 games anymore, so they had no choice but to hastily hammer together a release candidate from the wrecks of the half-console/half-PC development and send it out into the wild, hoping for the best. They knew full well the game was not finished, it was a Frankenstein monster straight from development hell. It wasn't an X game, but they still needed the X title because of the selling power. It was now or never, either they release something or the studio goes bust. Maybe Deep Silver pressured them to release, I dunno.

Either way, this is the end result we got two days ago, we can all see. The reason Rebirth smells like a failed console port and not an X game, because it wasn't meant to be one. It was meant to be a different title with different gameplay on a different system entirely. A tale of desperation and bad decisions. Now, I don't claim to know the real story, but this is the best I could come up with after my research.

Feel free to share your thoughts.



UPDATE:

It has been since come to my attention, that there are more pieces of evidence supporting the "failed console game" theory. Thanks to those who posted them!

If you look at this picture, you can see there are "_xbox" markers in the shader files, which only occur in games developed for the Xbox. There are also strange storage path links in the game's resource files that point to directories named "X4".

The rest, I don't think I have to spell out for for you, but here it goes:

- The fact the whole game was written around the Xbox controller. The whole UI and controls were designed around it. Keyboard+mouse works (kind of), but joystick support is abysmal, not to mention the other controllers like HOTAS, but what works seamlessly with the game is the Xbox controller alone.

- The control options are drastically cut back and there are unbindable and missing hotkeys. Kind of like all bad console ports we've seen. (no targeting controls? In a game with space dogfights? REALLY?!)

- Rebirth's engine uses DirectX 9.0c, not DX10 or 11, but 9, the same version used by the Xbox 360.

- Texture quality and graphical fidelity is horrible across the board. It's only made to look better by piling on tons of shaders and effects, which ultimately caused the appalling framerates on even the strongest rigs.

- Text on the screen is tiny and unreadable at high resolutions. But it's perfetly readable at 720p and lower (TV resolution).

- The FOV is locked to around 60 (perfect for TV).

- Heavily compressed file sizes (fit neatly on one DVD), mostly seen in Xbox360 releases. Not required (and actually counter productive) for PC releases.

- The UI is terrible and a nightmare to navigate with anything other than the Xbox controller. There is also no gravidar (again, in a space game with dogfights), the map system is a joke and there are no control option for anything else.

- Now, it can be argued this is mere conjuncture, but the popular gimmicks (FPS mode), the flashy spectacle instead of functional graphics, horrible UI, the minigames and the woefully restricted gameplay is a staple of console games and console ports and have absolutely no place in PC-only simulator games. They look really out of place, not to mention no X title (or other PC space simulation) ever had any of these.

The cat seems to be out of the bag. It's getting increasingly impossible for the devs to explain away all of these.

Feel free to share more and I put them up here.
 

Spectacle

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
8,363
Fucking XBox360 is on it's last breath, but it managed to fuck up one last PC game beyond recovery. Someone must pay!
:mob:
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
9,268
Location
Italy
do you really believe they'll "pay"? i don't. day after day, year after year, videogames market looks to me too big to sink, there's always another retard behind the corner ready to buy some shit for no apparent reason.
 

Xi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
6,101
Location
Twilight Zone


Here was my first attempt at X Rebirth. The menu became unusable after about 16 minutes. Had to restart entirely.
 

Outlander

Custom Tags Are For Fags.
Patron
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Messages
4,543
Location
Valley of Mines
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
What's the point of a percentage counter or a progressive loading bar, let alone both together? No game, ever, finishes loading the moment the bar fills or the counter reaches 100%
 

Raapys

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
4,994
True that. Though I do think some kind of indication that it's actually loading is in order.
 

Xi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
6,101
Location
Twilight Zone
Uploading another 2 hours of footage.

Ran into a few more bugs. Found the notorious 100 Fuel Cells bug too. Also, ran into a bug where the computer info screen simply disappears. (stopped playing when this happened. It's at the end of my videos (ill link soon).

I was able to get my ship to the right sector, though the game does a poor job of canceling previous actions, or explaining wtf your ships are doing. Also, found a merchant who sells software, but I did not have a mechanic to install the Trade software package! Doh! Anyway, gonna start actually doing some trades once I get past this part of the tutorial.

Also, game runs like a slideshow on my machine. I am getting used to the low FPS, but it definitely kills the immersion factor.



 
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Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
9,268
Location
Italy
. That encouraging me to fly around a cluttered space city to find collectible points to earn discounts is an incentive for me to explore this glut of busy graphics.
HOOOOLYYYY SHIIIIIT!
really? for real? truely true? wtf, this is worse than republic, spore and simcity COMBINED!
 

Spectacle

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
8,363
Maybe with the right mods this will eventually be a decent game for flying around space and shooting things, but I don't think it can ever be an X game, unless modders manage to do miracles with the trade and construction systems.
 
Self-Ejected

theSavant

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
2,009
Isn't it funny what modders fixed in 1 day: Never-Enter-Stations-Again-Mod http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=349949
Also there's a mod removing the fake traffic from the highways, proving that it was in fact fake.

It's ridiculous:
Every time Egosoft fucks something up, they get away with it.
The community fixes it.
Egosoft fucked it up from the beginning of X, and each new release was a mess.
But the community fixes it.
They continued to fuck it up for 20 years and still continue this way.
Because the community fixes it.
Why should they change their behavior?
When the community fixes it...

I don't know who is more stupid: the customer or the company. From a human-like perspective the commitment of the community is awesome. If this awesomeness would reflect the world then it would certainly be a better place. C'mon, let's fix the problems from everyone, even if they continue to fuck it up 20 years long. Other people live on the streets, other people lose their jobs if they make bullshit, but that X-Rebirth here - that is a completely different story, nay?
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,786
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
Because X and Evochron are really all we've had for the past decade. The community has the power to fix EGOSOFT's mistakes once an X game has been developed, but they don't have the ability to develop the games themselves.

If they were made properly the first time (I don't mean 100% bug-free or perfect, but surely not convoluted, poorly-documented trainwrecks), they'd arguably be the best computer games ever made. The counterintuitive, fiddly shit you have to do in X3/TC/AP to accomplish a straightforward task—even now that they're fixed up, patched, and polished—is unreal. I'm personally used to it since I've played for hundreds of hours, but that's no excuse.
 

titus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
1,719
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Romania
I wouldn't say 'the ability'. More like the means(aka source code to fix/money to make a brand new one).
 

Branm

Learned
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
472
Location
Ottawa
Ugh so I leeched this...performance is shit and feels like a console game.... I really should of come here first.

Can anyone confirm that you are really not able to pilot capital ships anymore?
 

Raapys

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
4,994
You can't. And apparently, due to bugs, it's not even possible to get your capital ships to fire, at all.
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
Patron
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
19,231
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
do you really believe they'll "pay"? i don't. day after day, year after year, videogames market looks to me too big to sink, there's always another retard behind the corner ready to buy some shit for no apparent reason.

The industry isn't going anywhere, but developers disappear all the time. I predict they will either:

1) Close down due to not being able to ever get a publisher onboard ever again, ever. Even all the usual marketing, bribes and spineless game jounos couldn't save this abomination from receiving terrible reviews. Or:

2) Turn into some sad husk of its former self like Black Isle or Toys for Bob. Or:

3) Be bought by EA/Activision and be forced to churn out some crappy generic AAAAAAAAAAA+ sequels every year. This probably isn't very likely, since they'd need to have a hugely popular mass-appeal franchise first, and Egosoft just succeeded in turning a great niche series into something that neither the original fans nor consoletards will ever like.
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
Patron
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
19,231
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Ugh so I leeched this...performance is shit and feels like a console game.... I really should of come here first.

Can anyone confirm that you are really not able to pilot capital ships anymore?

They always said you wouldn't be able to pilot capital ships, or ANY FUCKING SHIPS apart from the Albion Junk.

The consolification and utterly stupid decisions were a bit of a surprise though...
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
Patron
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
19,231
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Because X and Evochron are really all we've had for the past decade. The community has the power to fix EGOSOFT's mistakes once an X game has been developed, but they don't have the ability to develop the games themselves.

If they were made properly the first time (I don't mean 100% bug-free or perfect, but surely not convoluted, poorly-documented trainwrecks), they'd arguably be the best computer games ever made. The counterintuitive, fiddly shit you have to do in X3/TC/AP to accomplish a straightforward task—even now that they're fixed up, patched, and polished—is unreal. I'm personally used to it since I've played for hundreds of hours, but that's no excuse.

And as I predicted, the "solution" to that was to make the interface even harder to use while removing a lot of functionality and all keyboard shortcuts. :smug:
 

Branm

Learned
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
472
Location
Ottawa
Wow these guys... They keep digging themselves a deeper hole....

Bernd's response to Xbox port allegations:

"I must admit that to me this discussion is a bit ridiculous: We have been investigating console ports already since the early 2000s. In fact we had X3 Reunion running both on the Xbox (before it had a one ;) and later the Xbox 360. It never made it into a product for different reasons. First the memory limitations simply didn't allow the rich universe and simulation to work and when this got better with XBox 360 the X3 Reunion port didn't work well enough in terms of controls. Of course we also looked into porting the next project X Rebirth, but again it did not make it into a product because of the hardware limitations. Again mostly our memory hunger necessary for the economy simulation and all the AI calculations made this impossible. The PC is right now clearly the most powerful and flexible platform, but it is pretty silly to always see console games as necessarily dumber and simpler than PC games. The biggest advantages of the PC as a platform are in the huge variety of possible configurations. If we could bring our game, complex as it is to console gamers, then of course we would. But unfortunately the X games are not there yet. Who knows if this may change with the next generation of consoles, but right now we have more important problems to fix and features to work on. And even once the immediate things are done there are some very exciting possibilities to look into on the PC platform, before looking closer at next gen consoles makes any sense for us."

Bernd's response to Missing features. compared to X3

Of course there are different features compared to X3 - X Rebirth is NOT X4! But this is not because it lacks features like control of whole fleets (this is possible and we will further improve this) or because it has easier in fighting (People should not judge the difficulty level by the first hour of a tutorial. Let them at least finish the plot and play the open game after that, before they judge the difficulty or the features of the game). No, the difference is in the way these features are presented. Yes we take out some parts of these features or package them differently and not everybody, especially from the old fans will like that. This was clear from the start, yet I`m still sorry to hear this every time. We set out to open the game up for new players, those we scared away with the old X games and we try to find a compromise that is also acceptable for our very valued fans. We hope we can achieve this by making slight modifications, but it is impossible to make everybody equally happy.

http://www.ez-guild.com/news.php?readmore=867
 

mikaelis

Prophet
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Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,448
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Land of Danes
Codex 2013 Codex 2014
Finally had a chance to try it. Game is unplayable for me with the XBox controller. I especially borrowed it from a friend to have a feeling how it works. Maybe it is just me but I will never be able nor I will try, to master this horrendous thing. It is plainly terrible. Of course, my joystick doesn't work properly. After all, why would you need it in a space-sim :troll:.

From what I gathered:

radial menu is a disaster, even if you will be able to bind it to joystick hat in the future (and that may be a problem in itself as you want to use the hat for strafing - god knows how it will respond to menu function at the same time).
by saying that, nobody knows if that even be easily possible. Joysticks ARE BOTCHED! BECAUSE FUCKING BERND LEHNAN THOUGHT XBONE GAMEPAD IS TEH FUTURE!!!!
graphic is worse than X3:TC/AP. Period.
highways with their minigames are just plainly bad. Fortunately there is a mod to switch them off (may break the economy to some extent).

The only positive for me is that I don't seem to get too much of a performance problems. Though I haven't flown too far as I was immediately discouraged by abysmal contol and rage-quit.

Good Job Egosoft :bravo: :x

EDIT:::

Controlling menus and general control within the game in X3:TC vs. X:Rebirth can be compared to me trying to learn addition when I was 6 and trying to (figuratively) learn quantum physics at the same age. What the Fuck were they thinking!!!!!!!
 
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