WR - General Chit-Chatter/Tidbits

[Excidium]

Awesome. I approve having more than one dialogue skill

 

[hoverdog]

I AM CUMMING RIVERS!

/FH

 

[Palmer Eldritch]

I'm impressed with everything so far. Keep up the good work!

Just a thought: don't add more dialogue skills or sub-skills. Instead, use stats to cover different types of speech options (CHA & INT). The problem with the original skill system is merely the relative usefulness of different skills.The solution is to make sure that all skills become more or less equally useful, in which case players won't necessarily prioritize the speech skill. If investing in skills like "traps" or "first aid" was more useful in the original games, then the optimal choice would be less obvious.

Adding sub-skills is just a matter of redundant and counterproductive complexity. It makes perfect sense to balance the game in a way that a charismatic fellow would gain additional speech-benefits, while another character can still invest in the speech skill and gain access to some of the special dialogue options.

 

[GarfunkeL]

CUMMING BUCKETS!

Also, your music is fucking awesome, thanks for composing it and making it available - I listen to it next to Mark Morgan's Fallout OST and they blend together almost seamlessly!

 

[Surf Solar]

I'm impressed with everything so far. Keep up the good work!

Just a thought: don't add more dialogue skills or sub-skills. Instead, use stats to cover different types of speech options (CHA & INT). The problem with the original skill system is merely the relative usefulness of different skills.The solution is to make sure that all skills become more or less equally useful, in which case players won't necessarily prioritize the speech skill. If investing in skills like "traps" or "first aid" was more useful in the original games, then the optimal choice would be less obvious.

Adding sub-skills is just a matter of redundant and counterproductive complexity. It makes perfect sense to balance the game in a way that a charismatic fellow would gain additional speech-benefits, while another character can still invest in the speech skill and gain access to some of the special dialogue options.

Yeah, I'm a bit torn at this.. On one hand, I'd really like to do more skills to choose from, on the other hand, your example makes sense too. I'll think about it after a nap again, maybe it will help. ;D Heck, at one point I even thought about to write [Speech 60%] Tags, but thankfully this idea was abandonend very quick.


@ Garfunkel: Thanks.

 

[Roderick]

This looks absolutely incredible. hope you can finish it, and hopefully soon. Hope you can implement the multiple speech skills well, it's a good idea.

or Palmer Eldritch's idea seems very good too. it may work better in the system

 

[Quilty]

I AM CUMMING BUCKETS!

/FH

My thighs are still wet.

Keep up the good work!

 

[shihonage]

I wonder if non-dialogue skills can be used in dialogue. For instance, if you have Small Guns 85%, you can say something smart about NPC's weaponry and they warm up to you.

Same goes for medical skills, outdoorsman, etc.

 

[Excidium]

Didn't it work like that in Fallout New Vegas?

 

[Jaesun]

I wonder if non-dialogue skills can be used in dialogue. For instance, if you have Small Guns 85%, you can say something smart about NPC's weaponry and they warm up to you.

Same goes for medical skills, outdoorsman, etc.

This. There are many many uses you could use with the already existing skills.

 

[Surf Solar]

I wonder if non-dialogue skills can be used in dialogue. For instance, if you have Small Guns 85%, you can say something smart about NPC's weaponry and they warm up to you.

Same goes for medical skills, outdoorsman, etc.

Yes, you can call a demand for pretty much everything, be it Firearms, Unarmed (e.g Skills), SPECIAL stats, Perks, Traits, vars ofcourse, reputation, items in inventory, level, number of killed critters of a certain group, current HP/max HP etc etc in the dialog tool easily. I have to say, that tool is quite convenient to use, that's why I always recommend it if someone asks for a good dialog building tool. To go into a deeper example, I've got a certain NPC pair which the player may want to help, one is sick/almost dead, and you can "heal" her. There are many different ways to solve the disease and you can horribly screw it up too. There are Outdoorsman checks in, a check for the "Snake Eater" perk, First Aid/Doctor, Science, etc. That's why I earlier thought about to display the actual requirements, eg "40 Outdoorsman" or whatever, but I scrapped that. It's much more interesting this way to play with different character builds, even I was surprised when I playchecked some older dialogs I've made a couple of months ago without checking the files, that there is much stuff to see if you have the proper stats.

Can the game engine allow you to control party members? If yes, you can do one of the best CRPGs around.

If you're thinking of marking your party members like in the IE engine games and clicking somewhere and they all run to the same spot, it's unfortunately not possible. If it will be possible though, you can be sure it'll be in my game. At the moment it is like that:


You ctrl click on an enemy, an empty hex etc. and give your companions orders, which they'll immediately do. "Change Weapon" "Repair that for me" etc can all be scripted to a single mouseclick. It's ofcourse still not the same as full party-based control, but certainly a step forward to the clunky interface we had in Fallout1/2. Note that this wasn't done by me, it was made by the other guys at the FOnline:2238 team, magicians when it comes to mechanics editing.

A workaround to this would be the multiplayermode, you can play the game with your bros just fine. It's a bit wonky though as only one guy can talk with NPC at one time, so it's not a ful storybasedl Co-Op mode yet. I'm yet to decide if it's worth the effort creating an own multiplayer module aswell... At the moment it's like you play a session of Baldurs Gate with your friends, one does the dialog, the others.. wait. We'll see.

 

[DoctorEars]

Didn't it work like that in Fallout New Vegas?

Yeah that's how New Vegas did it. In fact, one of the first quests/tasks in the game has parts where other skills are used in dialogue.

 

[Surf Solar]

Not at home right now, so I can only work on some graphic things on this pc here.. Thought about loading screens and the like... Would you consider "Game hints" (the following "tip" is just a quickly made up one, it's rather inane) as popamole or breaking the 4th wall?
The structure I thought of is always a small hint at the top, and a picture/art at the bottom plus some NPC quote.

[Edited, now has a loading bar(tm)]

Also, another controversal topic.. I want to give some key npc unique weapons/armors. It would be variations of the normal ones (think of a leather armor for example), only with slightly increased stats, like, just making shit up, some baddie has placed additional plates at the chest of his armor and thus has highered Damage Threshold to conventional (e.g gunfire) damage, or said baddie has an unique bolt action rifle better then the normal one and with slightly altered critter texture, with 5 hexes more range or whatever... Would you think this is too much toying around doing it the same as Fallout 3 (gulp), or does it add to the game? Just trying to give the games combat a bit more depth and adding strategie, for example if one critter has too high resistance to a certain kind of damage, etc.

 

[DoctorEars]

Also, another controversal topic.. I want to give some key npc unique weapons/armors. It would be variations of the normal ones (think of a leather armor for example), only with slightly increased stats, like, just making shit up, some baddie has placed additional plates at the chest of his armor and thus has highered Damage Threshold to conventional (e.g gunfire) damage, or said baddie has an unique bolt action rifle better then the normal one and with slightly altered critter texture, with 5 hexes more range or whatever... Would you think this is too much toying around doing it the same as Fallout 3 (gulp), or does it add to the game? Just trying to give the games combat a bit more depth and adding strategie, for example if one critter has too high resistance to a certain kind of damage, etc.

Do it.

I don't think of it as controversial, I think it makes sense within the world. Why wouldn't some baddie place some additional plates onto his armour? Why wouldn't people try to modify their weapons to make them better?

 

[GarfunkeL]

Yes and no. I wouldn't like that unless you implement a way for the player to customize his/her kit in a similar way. But in a PA-setting, stuff is already rare, so you can just place a single instance of a good weapon in the world. This way you don't have magical Assault Rifle +5 in the hands of a gang leader - make the rank&file use Chinese AK-47 knock'offs while the boss has a HK-416 with working optics giving him better accuracy and range over the others.

 

[Surf Solar]

Yes and no. I wouldn't like that unless you implement a way for the player to customize his/her kit in a similar way. But in a PA-setting, stuff is already rare, so you can just place a single instance of a good weapon in the world. This way you don't have magical Assault Rifle +5 in the hands of a gang leader - make the rank&file use Chinese AK-47 knock'offs while the boss has a HK-416 with working optics giving him better accuracy and range over the others.

I guess I will just go with the mods/updates route. You can just craft some extended magazine or speedloader for revolvers for example, and with the right schematics, you can learn better ways to improve your equipment. It's better then those "+5 Rifles" you mentionend, as I hate such stuff.

 

[Grunker]

Wow.

 

[Arlborn]

Looks great and, specially, sounds great, keep it up!

 

[Surf Solar]

My helping hands PC isn't working properly which leaves me flinging stats back and forth and tweaking the combat system a bit, as I'm not the most proficient scripter to say the least. Anyway, I thought I ask here: I'm currently researching for some weapons (especially firearms) which could make sense/could be bastardized with photoshop to match that particular "survival" and retrofuturistic setting. Problem is: I'm not really a gun nut and could need a helping hand there. I thought of some bolt action rifles at first, assault rifles later on. Makeshift stuff is already a plenty of it in, but I have a hard time to come up with some more powerful/unique stuff like we were discussing before. So, any suggestions?

I am also sitting infront of my document for planned combat mechanics tweakings. Any idea what you'd like to see to make the combat a bit more varied? I was toying around with gas grenades like Jagged Alliance for mid-to-late game when the PC already crawled out the "I ain't got even clothes and attack you with a wooden log" phase. Steam/smoke sprites are already there, I am sure a nifty script to leech AC/HP could be applied to it aswell. Your ideas?

 

[Surf Solar]

Laser Submachine-Pistol: Maybe a custom job, prototype or a weapon mod. This would work best if you have weapon conditions, because then you can make weapons that break faster than normal to represented their ad-hoc, customized, prototyped or over-chaged nature. My idea is a for a custom job laser pistol made by a weapon smith or someone in the pre-war times who wanted his civilian laser to have a extra punch to it. Think a laser pistol with the same damage that fires burst shots. Hell, thinking about it, a Laser Submachinegun could actually be a normal weapon, and the unique could be one that fires FASTER burst shots, think that 10mm SMG you could buy in NCR.

Not sure about the Laser SMG as I want to keep energy weaponry to a minimum, but the idea sounds pretty neat.

Elephant Gun: Essentially, a .700 express antique with rare ammo, ridiculous stopping power and a some good weight to carry. (ST 07 or 08). Low magazine capacity (maybe even one-shot), but ridiculous power.

Nice that you mention that, because it's already ingame as some hidden weapon. :>

Gyrojet Pistol: Keeping with the fifties theme, how about a good old' Rocket Pistol? A rare model, made actually useful by future technology, it was shifted in favor of energy weapons but models of it still exist. Did I mention its also almost completely silent? Great weapon for a sneaky character.

I've read a bit about the concept of these things, it indeed sounds pretty good and could fit the setting very well. I have no idea about guns/rifles, but it indeed looks unique , will use that :D :

I liked your gas grenade idea, makes combat more varied and less strict to mere shooting. I like the idea of a gas grenade. Smoke Grenades would probrably serve for cover. Flashbangs should fuck enemy to-hit for a turn. Perhaps Sleep gas grenades to knockout enemies. Nail bombs to cover a bigger area.

Yeah, I think once the script for those grenades is made it'll be pretty straightforward to make variations (smoke/sleep/flashbang etc) with it. Nailbomb sounds nice for a Traps-oriented Character to craft, will definitvely consider it (especially as I already have nails as crafting requirements in)

Thrownable nets and Bolas could also help keep the combat even more interesting

Sounds good, but needs new graphics, not sure if I can pull that off (all those animations :/ )

Some general combat sugestions:

First thing first: Increase weapon range. DON'T, DON'T use default Fallout values. Double, maybe triple normal firearm range for most weapons.

Allright - but why? While I can see that it will add to some weapons I could imagine that it can be quite frustrating if some enemy shoots at you if you don't even see him, especially for low PE characters. If the tohitchances are changed though, so that not each shot will land a bullseye, yes then this can be really good. Guess I will have to create a spreadsheet for all weapon comparisons.

Second Thing: Make it harder to hit farther away. One thing I don't like in FO is how everybody always hits by end game. Gunfights do not work that way. Not every character created by the player or used by the AI should be Supreme Master Sniper.

Yeah, as said. I don't want to turn this into some military simulation, but a bit more realism is good. For example I always hated the fact that one can shoot some guy in the eyes, with high enough Skill even from hundreds of yards away. This is gone. The tohitchance will most likely be lowered too.

Third Thing: Interrupts/Reaction Shots. This is needed to stop the "I potshot you and hide behind this indestructible wall so you all will have to run towards me instead of shooting, wasting your APs and allowing me to take more potshots on you and hide behind this another wall and ad infinitum" syndrome in Fallout. I'm not sure if Interrupts or Reaction Shots are better. I liked Reaction shots better, I thought they were more visceral the way they were done in X-COM. They really feel like somekind of reflex action, great for games with dangerous and scary combat. You only need to make the chances stat-based and you're set.

I absolutely agree with you, but I think the engine doesn't support it. same as the next one (the desctructable scenery). If it would be possible, then I would implement it though, always loved that in JA2.

Fiveth Thing: Positions, of course. Stand, Crouch and Prone are good. I liked how in Fallout Tactics Crouch and Prone made you increasingly vulnerable to melee attack, makes sense. Maybe adding a melee dmg bonus. This would make melee/unarmed more interesting against firearm-users. Stand should also get extra dmg from explosions.

Jup, thanks to the 3d models I think this will be possible. Only thing missing is the animations and the calculation for AC bonus when prone or crouched etc. This will add a lot to variety of the combat I think.

Sixenth Thing: Make unarmed and melee more interesting and dynamic. The good thing about Melee weapons is their grievous damage and their parrying ability (AC bonus againt melee and unarmed attacks?), while unarmed allows a skilled fighter incredible flexibility, so things like disarming a oponent, grappling against him or using other special attacks should make melee fighting more flexible.

Good idea, there could be some kind of low-dmg attack but with high chance to throw opponent to the ground, same as finessed high damage attacks but with very low chance to actually hit+high AP cost. Grappling or taking the weapon away sounds incredibly lulzy and worth to consider :D .

Hope I helped.

Ofcourse. Suggestions are always appreciated. So , thanks!

 

[mister_matt]

Okay - a total conversion of Fallout that uses Fallout assets and takes place in relatively the same setting? Huh? Also, Blogger is a crap platform to play host to a video game website. It makes it difficult to find information about the project because it is all hidden in blog posts, so I really can't be bothered to track down the info I am looking for.

Post nitpicking: I love storytelling, and I also love Fallout. I will be following this project closely as it looks actually quite interesting. I wish you much luck completing it!

 

[shihonage]

Okay - a total conversion of Fallout that uses Fallout assets and takes place in relatively the same setting? Huh?

What's so strange about that? Mutants Rising also uses mostly existing graphics assets. Who cares about assets, they're just means to an end. That being, new content.

 

[Surf Solar]

Did some tests for game over screens (as the engine didn't have them). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVbUSM17lzQ The voice is just a placeholder (Text-to-voice program) but sounds pretty sinister with this UK tone nonethless. If any of you have some gruesome one-liners to use there, just drop 'em here.

I am pretty busy at the moment, but I'll reply to the posts later, aswell to the PMs I got, sorry for the waiting time.

 

[Excidium]

I like it.

 

[mangsy]

This man, teasing us with snippets.

Also, I'm still bumping your tunes.