World of Whorecraft: Battle for Asseroth

[Wilian]

It is not grind if you do it once a day, or once or twice a week, for a couple hours.

That sort of "grind" is on a bullshit scale far, far worse than a grind where I can dictate myself how much time a day I'd like to dedicate to it and via that have my own choice in regards when it completes and not. I wrote a post regarding this particular form of bullshit "grind" regarding WoW's reputations a while back:

After doing more dailies than one life-time requires, I started to ponder on the system and it's shortcomings. Especially in light of GC recently tweeting something about possibly putting a cap on reputation gains (A baffling choice if I might add)

I came into a conclusion that dailies are just not the way to go as main bread and butter when it comes to reputation. They should work as something extra that is there if you want to work on, or maybe a part of process that gets fulfilled when you're otherwise working on reputation.

When I look at reputation "grinds" (Which set amount of dailies certainly is not, it's just a chore to be done with) the best example of it all comes from all the way back of vanilla and Argent Dawn. Simply because of it's diversity if nothing else. There were TONS of ways you could gain rep with AD, especially at the end of vanilla. Let me list some of them:

Farming outdoor mobs up til friendly/honored (Depending on mob type)
Farming instance mobs up til honored (Bosses gave rep all the way to exalted)
Scourge Insignias, three types of them based on the strength of the undead mob and the drop rate was quite high. Required a trinket for drops but the AD blue trinket with AP/SP against undeads was extremely powerful for it's time.
Cauldron runs (Repeteable quests where you go gather mats from undeads to disable cauldrons)
8 different resource turn-ins that were very farmable due to high drop rates but also came as an extra pretty much regardless of what you did. (These also gave you marks to buy some of the best pre-raid stuff from AD faction, along with biggest bag of the game at the time)
Crafting Writs for your profession to craft and turn in

There was plenty of ways to increase rep with AD, none of which required daily commitment to reach certain level within the faction. On the contrary, it was all on the player's hand how fast or slow the progression happened instead of artificial barriers to slow down the process.

What also made a large difference was that you could farm AD rep on two separate zones and in two rather large instances (Strath being almoust half the size of Stormwind) and there was always some lone spot where you didn't have to compete with others if you wanted some peace.

None of them gave particulary much rep, the mobs awarded 5 rep per kill 'til the limit, turn ins 50 and insignia turn ins some more. But it was continuous process on which player could dictate how to spend the time and if he didn't, something always piled up regardless.

This of course is mostly applicaple to the other "high end" reputation of vanilla, Cenarion Circle.

It certainly was more difficult to work with than AD with rather major time requirements, but it also presented hefty amount of options of how to work on it.

Farming mobs -> Gave rep, dropped pages for turn-ins, dropped Twilight set

Twilight set -> Summon miniboss that awards rep on kill, that for some classes was soloable, which in turn drops possible reputation turn-in item and item that will let you summon mid-tier boss.
Kill mid-tier boss that requires a group of 3-5 players and the same occurs but this time it also dropped very good entry level BoE blue gear, get more rep, more rep items for turn-ins and items that let you summon final boss.
Final boss, all of the above is applicaple, but now there was chance for epics and you needed a small raid group to finish it up.

These were quite casual aswell, in a sense that you could gather summoning mats really fast.

Then there were the Letter quests for Logistics, Military and such. It utilized crafting professions, farming hives and gave badges for which you could buy gear that would be usable all the way to AQ, a worthy time-investment.

All we have nowdays is pretty much just dailies, dailies and some more dailies (With rare exceptions, depending on a faction, and even then the rarity of the rep item makes it hardly feasible.) and I don't think the system that was so diverse before required such dumbing down as it came to be and I'd love to see some inspiration taken on how especially AD rep worked out in the end with added CC flavour of miniboss summoning.

 

[Xenich]

It is not grind if you do it once a day, or once or twice a week, for a couple hours.

That sort of "grind" is on a bullshit scale far, far worse than a grind where I can dictate myself how much time a day I'd like to dedicate to it and via that have my own choice in regards when it completes and not. I wrote a post regarding this particular form of bullshit "grind" regarding WoW's reputations a while back: (snip...)

Yep and it really angered me when games started putting in these types of features, especially when some asshat would try to defend it saying it is more friendly to players who don't have the time to play 24/7 and they could now compete with everyone equally. Seriously, what fucking moron came up with this stupid idea? What about those who work 60+ hours a week and don't have time to log in every fucking day to punch a time clock to do dallies? Before these stupid forced policies in games, your play time might be sporadic and then you might get a day off in the week where you can play several hours straight, but because you are limited to doing one a day, well... I guess you are pretty much shit out of luck. If anything, this sort of design killed any sort of players who work. Maybe their target audience are those who don't work or those who work 9-5 jobs. Seriously this sort of social engineering shit needs to stop.

Yeah, I am not a big fan of that sort of design.

 

[Mangoose]

The only thing I managed to get myself to grind at endgame (again, vanilla WOW) was PVP, and that was by sometimes doing AV and sometimes watching anime while AFKing in AV. I got to PVP rank 10 (the rank where you get a set of blue PVP armor).. and then I started questioning why the fuck was I wasting time in an MMO endgame.

I was able to deal with the leveling "grind" but I think that's because leveling up promised me new areas to explore (incidentally, I leveled one character to max... and this is the same for every other MMO I've played). Maybe this is personal preference (a la Bartle Test), but epic loot (while it did have its draw) just didn't motivate me to play as much as new areas/quests/etc.

 

[Lhynn]

Well, china game has grind and has no grind, everything is optional for the most part because everything has a price, thats the perk of a player run economy, you dont want to do it? fuck it, buy it.

The game is divided in events. for example every night at 19:00 server time the script steal event begins, this is an event in which you go into a different school territory, get into their libraries and raid them for scripts possessing the knowledge of their secret martial arts, then have to make it back safely to your school while being chased by the members of the school that is the target.
The reward is simple but pretty epic, one part of the secret knowlege of the school, randomized. The even lasts half an hour and you can succeed in doing it anywhere from 1 to 5 times depending on how you spend your time.
I have done it over 400 times, it has never felt like a grind.

School war, every friday and saturday at 22:00 server time schools will go to war for the priceless relics of the school, the strongest sword, the strongest staff, a script with unfathomable knowledge. And your school sends you to retrieve said item or steal it from another school.
Its an all out war with objectives in a map full of zones that give a tactical advantage. Nowdays not enough players participate to make it interesting, as there is no real reward other than flaunting your e-peen and server population is low. but when there were, it was really fun, full teams being coordinated by a group of tacticians that had the trust of the headmaster (all players).
School meeting. all out pvp to see who dominates the school as the headmaster. the old headmaster and the new king of pvp have to fight it out, and then members of the school need to vote, whomever gets most votes wins.

School spy. a neat idea that because boring repetitive shit. everyday you can go to other school, retrieve information from offline player characters (they become npcs) and can get attacked by members of the school (other players). you get rewarded with school contribution and certs. Certs especially are very much needed up to a point, then you never need them again. You can buy them off other players by making money doing something else.

school tournament. every day at 21 members of a school can register and duel agains other members of the same school in 1v1 confrontations where ancient skills are forbidden (ancient being extremely powerful and expensive), winning 3 rounds against 3 different school members will grant you entrance to the weekly tournament.

Forbidden instances. players can team up and challenge insntances, 7 times a week, the instances are by far the most rewarding thing in the game, lasting from 1 to 3 hours, with different difficulty levels that actually change bosses and the story of the instance itself. shura difficulty (highest one) is only available from 17 to 23 server time). There are 5 basic instances with 4 difficulty modes and 8 school instances with 2 difficulty modes.

Crafting in this game is really profitable at high level, but takes a lot of work and a big investment. You have a capped exp per day you can level tho, and it dont take much to cap it. you have a capped amount of things you can craft per day also, in the form of vigor (crafting energy)

Guild wars. they are done to get and keep bases, that offer a lot of benefit.

Even at launch it had a huge amount of things to do, the game tries its best to keep you from doing the same thing over and over again, there are exceptions to these tho. Truth is a lot of people complain they cant grind in this game....

There are grindy parts tho, but they are over in a week and you never have to do them again, mostly to unlock new passive skills and thats only if you want to take them beyond the sensible limit, before that is a straight 1 quest for 1 level, and they all are different quest that for the overwhelming majority dont involve any fighting. It is always mostly a concious choice and the time it takes for skills to level alone make it so you can do one of those quests per day and be fine with it (they are about 10 minutes long too).

Other thing i love about this game, violence is not mandatory... i have spent weeks playing the game without hitting so much as a single player, and other weeks were my body count reached over 500 players.

Its definitely a completely fresh spin on how an mmo plays and its dynamics, and its all brought down by their customer service alone... but i really cant imagine a better game than this.


PS: f2p is a lie, its free to try, but definitely pay to play after a while.

 

[Xenich]

The only thing I managed to get myself to grind at endgame (again, vanilla WOW) was PVP, and that was by sometimes doing AV and sometimes watching anime while AFKing in AV. I got to PVP rank 10 (the rank where you get a set of blue PVP armor).. and then I started questioning why the fuck was I wasting time in an MMO endgame.

I was able to deal with the leveling "grind" but I think that's because leveling up promised me new areas to explore (incidentally, I leveled one character to max... and this is the same for every other MMO I've played). Maybe this is personal preference (a la Bartle Test), but epic loot (while it did have its draw) just didn't motivate me to play as much as new areas/quests/etc.

That is the premise of my argument. People are fine with grinds if there is meaningful value in obtaining the reward from it. If you know that the effort you put into the development is going to be useful in future content (level, dungeon, exploration, etc...), well... it isn't wasted character development and it isn't a pointless waste of time. This also falls into my point about Gamer's vs Non-Gamers. The gamer wants meaningful progression. They want challenge, rewards for their risks, meaningful progression to which their planning in development of their character pays off. The Non-Gamer simply wants to be entertained, whether the progression is meaningful, balanced appropriately with risk/reward, etc... is irrelevant. If it isn't "fun" (subjectively) to them, it isn't entertaining.

Gamers will grind difficult content (levels, gear acquisition, etc...) if it has meaning and purpose. As you pointed out, endgame has no real meaning or purpose. What benefit does that end game gear provide you if you have nothing worthy to apply it to? What point is there to grinding that faction if there is no purpose AFTER you have obtained that goal? Grinds need to be placed from the beginning of the game and all through it as worthy carrots to chase, not at the end where there is no use of value.

 

[Xenich]

Well, china game has grind and has no grind, everything is optional for the most part because everything has a price, thats the perk of a player run economy, you dont want to do it? fuck it, buy it.

The game is divided in events. for example every night at 19:00 server time the script steal event begins, this is an event in which you go into a different school territory, get into their libraries and raid them for scripts possessing the knowledge of their secret martial arts, then have to make it back safely to your school while being chased by the members of the school that is the target.
The reward is simple but pretty epic, one part of the secret knowlege of the school, randomized. The even lasts half an hour and you can succeed in doing it anywhere from 1 to 5 times depending on how you spend your time.
I have done it over 400 times, it has never felt like a grind.

School war, every friday and saturday at 22:00 server time schools will go to war for the priceless relics of the school, the strongest sword, the strongest staff, a script with unfathomable knowledge. And your school sends you to retrieve said item or steal it from another school.
Its an all out war with objectives in a map full of zones that give a tactical advantage. Nowdays not enough players participate to make it interesting, as there is no real reward other than flaunting your e-peen and server population is low. but when there were, it was really fun, full teams being coordinated by a group of tacticians that had the trust of the headmaster (all players).
School meeting. all out pvp to see who dominates the school as the headmaster. the old headmaster and the new king of pvp have to fight it out, and then members of the school need to vote, whomever gets most votes wins.

School spy. a neat idea that because boring repetitive shit. everyday you can go to other school, retrieve information from offline player characters (they become npcs) and can get attacked by members of the school (other players). you get rewarded with school contribution and certs. Certs especially are very much needed up to a point, then you never need them again. You can buy them off other players by making money doing something else.

school tournament. every day at 21 members of a school can register and duel agains other members of the same school in 1v1 confrontations where ancient skills are forbidden (ancient being extremely powerful and expensive), winning 3 rounds against 3 different school members will grant you entrance to the weekly tournament.

Forbidden instances. players can team up and challenge insntances, 7 times a week, the instances are by far the most rewarding thing in the game, lasting from 1 to 3 hours, with different difficulty levels that actually change bosses and the story of the instance itself. shura difficulty (highest one) is only available from 17 to 23 server time). There are 5 basic instances with 4 difficulty modes and 8 school instances with 2 difficulty modes.

Crafting in this game is really profitable at high level, but takes a lot of work and a big investment. You have a capped exp per day you can level tho, and it dont take much to cap it. you have a capped amount of things you can craft per day also, in the form of vigor (crafting energy)

Guild wars. they are done to get and keep bases, that offer a lot of benefit.

Even at launch it had a huge amount of things to do, the game tries its best to keep you from doing the same thing over and over again, there are exceptions to these tho. Truth is a lot of people complain they cant grind in this game....

There are grindy parts tho, but they are over in a week and you never have to do them again, mostly to unlock new passive skills and thats only if you want to take them beyond the sensible limit, before that is a straight 1 quest for 1 level, and they all are different quest that for the overwhelming majority dont involve any fighting. It is always mostly a concious choice and the time it takes for skills to level alone make it so you can do one of those quests per day and be fine with it (they are about 10 minutes long too).

Other thing i love about this game, violence is not mandatory... i have spent weeks playing the game without hitting so much as a single player, and other weeks were my body count reached over 500 players.

Its definitely a completely fresh spin on how an mmo plays and its dynamics, and its all brought down by their customer service alone... but i really cant imagine a better game than this.


PS: f2p is a lie, its free to try, but definitely pay to play after a while.

That isn't playing a game. That is entertaining yourself in one. There is no point in playing a game that allows people the choice of circumventing the rules if they choose to. Even if you could do it for free, the game would be pointless. That is like logging intro one of the private servers where they allow you all the GM commands and access to the database to summon items. It is "entertaining" for a short time, then it is a pointless waste of time as there is no point in playing a game people can cheat in.

I want RPG features, not entertainment gimmicks common to FPS games. Look, there is nothing wrong with people who like that, but your examples are examples of a "style" of game design to which honestly I think are the primary problems with MMOs today. It isn't the solution to games issues, it is a type of play that I have been saying over and over again that differentiates a Gamer from a Non-gamer.

What I want to see is as I have been saying. I don't want the game designed for "end-game" where everyone rushes to max level in a couple of weeks and then needs "entertainment" since there is nothing else to do. I want progression to take months for the average player, for content to be dense, hidden and complex to the point where years go by before people have found all the hidden quests/events, etc... in the content (to this day, EQ still hasn't had all of its quests done). They go back to those design principals and the only people who will complain about the lack of end game will be the people who play 24/7, to which the solution to deal with them is to create raid content so fucking hard that it takes them months before they finally beat it.

 

[Lhynn]

Not really, as the amount of items is very limited and the demand is high, the economy being entirely player run and all.

For example, in this game only 1 player has purple rosy maxed, purple rosy is a really strong internal passive skill, it is believed to be one of the top ones and can only be found in an instance called Peakcock villa, as a low chance reward. Most players in the server that cultivate taichi internal skills want it, so the competition for the item is fierce. Sometimes it simply dont come down to money, it comes down to opportunity. The only one that has it at its max is the player that has consistently won the server wide martial arts tournament known as mount hua competition. He didnt pay for it, he go it tru hes guildies, some of it himself.

There are 3 known players with bottomless wallets, none of them can defeat him, (heck, most of them cant even defeat me).

 

[Xenich]

Not really, as the amount of items is very limited and the demand is high, the economy being entirely player run and all.

For example, in this game only 1 player has purple rosy maxed, purple rosy is a really strong internal passive skill, it is believed to be one of the top ones and can only be found in an instance called Peakcock villa, as a low chance reward. Most players in the server that cultivate taichi internal skills want it, so the competition for the item is fierce. Sometimes it simply dont come down to money, it comes down to opportunity. The only one that has it at its max is the player that has consistently won the server wide martial arts tournament known as mount hua competition. He didnt pay for it, he go it tru hes guildies, some of it himself.

There are 3 known players with bottomless wallets, none of them can defeat him, (heck, most of them cant even defeat me).

That isn't the point. It isn't about your skill, it is about having any effort to obtain most things in the game being invalidated because others can buy it.

Achievements in games these days are pointless wastes of time because the effort to obtain the goal is often invalidated by the PTW factor of many of these games.

I remember LoTRO, when it first came out I really worked hard on he virtues. They were a grind, but they were of value. Now there were a lot of idiots who claimed they were useless for a long time and refused to do them. Then... well... Rift was released and it was an extremely hard dungeon that really required people to apply various virtues to their builds. Well, all of a sudden people whined about having to grind them, threw tantrums, etc... till eventually they allowed people to buy them in the store. So, all that work, planning, effort, etc... which I was pretty stoked about having completed was a waste of time because the whiner casual "gimmie now" crowd could drop 20 bucks and invalidate everything I did.

I want everything I spend time in the game to mean something. That means everyone has to go through the same effort I do and allowing them to buy that effort, even if it isn't everything... is a slap to the face. It is why playing MMOs these days has become a waste of time, pointless exercise in mundane tasks.

 

[Lhynn]

nope, you cant buy it, that stuff on the black market circles would be worth around 4-5k usd and theres stuff thats a lot cheaper and is a good counter against it, spending money on the game is retarded unless you are rich irl, and i do mean rich. It actually means that much more because someone has to put down half their salary if they want to achieve what you did by playing the game.

See EvE online for that particular thing.

 

[Xenich]

nope, you cant buy it, that stuff on the black market circles would be worth around 4-5k usd and theres stuff thats a lot cheaper and is a good counter against it, spending money on the game is retarded unless you are rich irl, and i do mean rich. It actually means that much more because someone has to put down half their salary if they want to achieve what you did by playing the game.

See EvE online for that particular thing.

I despise anything being sold in a game, that includes exp potions or to be honest, even cosmetic things as I think everything should be only obtained through game play. Cash stores have destroyed the entire purpose of gaming and turned it into a gimmick, like boy bands in the music industry.

It is obvious what you like and what I like in terms of an MMORPG are night and day. That is fine though, there should be room for both, but... well it isn't going to ever happen when you have game companies that went into games because they wanted to make money (as opposed to making games because they love them and found out they could make money doing it) and players who play games because they demand to be entertained rather than desiring to play game systems.

To be honest, I actually hope the MMO industry completely flops. The sooner the better as when MMOs die, then there may be a willingness of game developers to make games that the player can host and develop on themselves (like NWN was doing with their multiplayer).

Did you know that Neverwinter was actually slated to be that type of game, similar to how Star Citizen is going to work? The developers would have a main server they host and then players would be able to host their own servers with their own content and connect them to the developers server. It was a very cool concept, but rather than give the power to the players to really have complete control over their own servers and systems, they sold out to a PTW company and turned it into a FTP gimmick game with PTW features to alleviate "grinding" typical to that companies standard. Such a waste. Once they start releasing games where you can run your own servers, well... then none of this will matter anymore as you will always be able to find someone who runs the game and its systems more to your liking. That really is where technology in MMO gaming should progress, private servers.

 

[Ninjerk]

I'm surprised no one has started selling "franchises" of their games. Let smaller companies or individuals take the risk running their own servers.

 

[Lhynn]

Well, AoW shop only sells the so called 99 skillsets, while often not powerful (nor gimped for that matter, just in the upper tier of average for the most part), they are all useful and unique. players can sell the set to other players, in fact thats how most people get them.

Everything you can buy in the cash shop you can get in game by buying it from another player. Even cosmetic shit (which can also be obtained in game with different systems) or convencience shit.

in AoW you cant pay to win, you can pay to get ahead, but that advantage is fleeting as in a couple weeks all the momentum that money gave you is gone.

One of the best ways to make money is playing middle man, working the market and making a money while manipulating prices. and ive seen wars centered around that.


Anyway, you think you can imagine how it is, you truly cant grasp it till you try it and start to admire how they have structured things. shit is flawed tho, and by putting so much into the players it is somewhat exploitable, but every patch works towards fixing it.

 

[Xenich]

Well, AoW shop only sells the so called 99 skillsets, while often not powerful (nor gimped for that matter, just in the upper tier of average for the most part), they are all useful and unique. players can sell the set to other players, in fact thats how most people get them.

Everything you can buy in the cash shop you can get in game by buying it from another player. Even cosmetic shit (which can also be obtained in game with different systems) or convencience shit.

in AoW you cant pay to win, you can pay to get ahead, but that advantage is fleeting as in a couple weeks all the momentum that money gave you is gone.

One of the best ways to make money is playing middle man, working the market and making a money while manipulating prices. and ive seen wars centered around that.


Anyway, you think you can imagine how it is, you truly cant grasp it till you try it and start to admire how they have structured things. shit is flawed tho, and by putting so much into the players it is somewhat exploitable, but every patch works towards fixing it.

I know what I will accept, and I have played many MMOs since their inception. I even did a whole FTP exploration evaluation a while ago with my friends in hopes of finding something... anything... that might be worthy. None were. Not only not worthy, but seriously, shot to the back of the head unworthy. That is how much I dislike these FTP systems and all the gimmicks that come with them. I have read up on the skill systems and combat of AoW, it is interesting, but... I know FTP, and I definitely know PTW. I would rather shave with a wood chipper than play in those systems.

 

[Xenich]

I'm surprised no one has started selling "franchises" of their games. Let smaller companies or individuals take the risk running their own servers.

Fear.

That is what I think. Look at all the games over the years that the community has been able to fix, improve, etc... There are some amazing feats being done by individuals and various groups of interests out there. You let them get their hands on those engines and they would make the original development look like it was a grade school project. Think about games like Vanguard being available to the public to run and continue development... on their own, under their own discretion? Yeah... they aren't going to do that unless the MMO market is completely dead. Why? Because if they started doing that, it would surely kill the current MMO market.


That is why I hope Chris Roberts is able to pull off the private server thing with SC. If he does, it will be huge (heck, the game is friggen huge already due to people dying for another Privateer universe). Hopefully that will spur some other upstart projects to do the same (Heck, even Brad McQuaid offered it as a 5 million goal on the KS, so you know it is being kicked around). Once something like that starts and takes off, it will kill the current MMO industry as we know it.

I mean, why "settle" for a mainstream MMO if you can pick a game and server that is much closer to your style and taste. It would be a "niche" revolution of gaming.

 

[Lhynn]

Fair enough, you dont know what you are missing tho.

Right now the strongest combination in the game thats dominating pvp is a school set + a school inner. both of which you get for free. And from a school that used to rank amongst the weakest ones.

 

[Ninjerk]

I'm surprised no one has started selling "franchises" of their games. Let smaller companies or individuals take the risk running their own servers.

Fear.

That is what I think. Look at all the games over the years that the community has been able to fix, improve, etc... There are some amazing feats being done by individuals and various groups of interests out there. You let them get their hands on those engines and they would make the original development look like it was a grade school project. Think about games like Vanguard being available to the public to run and continue development... on their own, under their own discretion? Yeah... they aren't going to do that unless the MMO market is completely dead. Why? Because if they started doing that, it would surely kill the current MMO market.


That is why I hope Chris Roberts is able to pull off the private server thing with SC. If he does, it will be huge (heck, the game is friggen huge already due to people dying for another Privateer universe). Hopefully that will spur some other upstart projects to do the same (Heck, even Brad McQuaid offered it as a 5 million goal on the KS, so you know it is being kicked around). Once something like that starts and takes off, it will kill the current MMO industry as we know it.

I mean, why "settle" for a mainstream MMO if you can pick a game and server that is much closer to your style and taste. It would be a "niche" revolution of gaming.

Do you have any idea how restrictive a franchise restaurant or bar can be?

 

[Xenich]

I'm surprised no one has started selling "franchises" of their games. Let smaller companies or individuals take the risk running their own servers.

Fear.

That is what I think. Look at all the games over the years that the community has been able to fix, improve, etc... There are some amazing feats being done by individuals and various groups of interests out there. You let them get their hands on those engines and they would make the original development look like it was a grade school project. Think about games like Vanguard being available to the public to run and continue development... on their own, under their own discretion? Yeah... they aren't going to do that unless the MMO market is completely dead. Why? Because if they started doing that, it would surely kill the current MMO market.


That is why I hope Chris Roberts is able to pull off the private server thing with SC. If he does, it will be huge (heck, the game is friggen huge already due to people dying for another Privateer universe). Hopefully that will spur some other upstart projects to do the same (Heck, even Brad McQuaid offered it as a 5 million goal on the KS, so you know it is being kicked around). Once something like that starts and takes off, it will kill the current MMO industry as we know it.

I mean, why "settle" for a mainstream MMO if you can pick a game and server that is much closer to your style and taste. It would be a "niche" revolution of gaming.

Do you have any idea how restrictive a franchise restaurant or bar can be?

Well, if they have full control, then all they would be is a company that absorbs the cost of bandwidth and really... If offered that as the option, I would tell them to stick their game up their ass until they reach their brains and turn them to mush.

My point is only if they are willing to pass off control. Your comment seems to imply they would not and at that point.... well.... nobody would bother being a franchise.

 

[Wilian]

http://www.pcgamesn.com/wow/blizzar...stems-world-warcraft-raiding-warlords-draenor

Well, this is most curious change, I wonder if it's real&how it will work out at this point of game's life.

 

[Xor]

Randomised loot drops are, when tuned well, a recipe for joy - but the flipside is the potential for crushing runs of bad luck. There’s nobody who understands that better than Blizzard, who first introduced a currency reward to World of Warcraft raiding as consolation prize for players who never seemed to land the shoulder piece they wanted.

These days, there are two currencies at work in the raiding system - but Blizzard want to remove both of them.

When I mentioned removing token vendors as a possible way to fix raiding a few pages ago, I never expected Blizzard to actually do that.

 

[Xenich]

Randomised loot drops are, when tuned well, a recipe for joy - but the flipside is the potential for crushing runs of bad luck. There’s nobody who understands that better than Blizzard, who first introduced a currency reward to World of Warcraft raiding as consolation prize for players who never seemed to land the shoulder piece they wanted.

These days, there are two currencies at work in the raiding system - but Blizzard want to remove both of them.

When I mentioned removing token vendors as a possible way to fix raiding a few pages ago, I never expected Blizzard to actually do that.

I remember a long time ago thinking token systems for raids was a good way to deal with the retarded RNG, but once I experienced it I quickly changed my mind. It is surprising how such a system can steal the hope and joy from a run where you think... maybe this time I will get it or... I wonder what will drop this time.

The old way wasn't the answer either (ie being at the mercy of the "Not so Random Number Generator"), but I remember my friends and I also kicking around the idea of making looting "smart" so it could correct the problem with the often consistency with the RNG engine.

 

[Metro]

Shitty mmos really aren't worth this much argument, guys.

 

[Lhynn]

Shitty mmos really aren't worth this much argument, guys.

Thats true, but i argue because i want them to be some day.
Anyway, reading about wow systems is making me sick to my stomach.

 

[Xenich]

Shitty mmos really aren't worth this much argument, guys.

True, but then games in general these days don't deserve a site or commentary, nor the time to piss on them. /shrug

 

[Metro]

No, just shitty mmos. Rest is fine to talk about.

 

[Avellion]

If you hate yourself enough. You can now pre-purchase Warlords of Draenor for 50 US Dollars. Alternatively if you want the world to know just how much of a sucker you are, you can buy the Digital Deluxe edition for 70 US dollars. The game will be released December the 20th this year. So what remains of their playerbase will have to suffer 9 more months of Mists of Pandaria.