World of Whorecraft: Battle for Asseroth

[moredread]

So she's to blame for the pussyboy Horde.

As such, I doubt it was the writer who made the decision to give orcs a more relatable if not downright heroic portrayal, but probably someone like Metzen.

Some insight into the writing process during WC3 development:

There were a lot of changes to story throughout development. The original Illidan was still Furion's brother, but he was a satyr. His dabbling in magic had changed him into one. It was totally a take on Pan from Shakespeare, and it felt really weak. We were all like... "Whaaaat?" So Chris took that back to the drawing board and made him much more badass. Probably one of my favorite characters.


Jaina was supposed to die in a very early draft, but that idea was squashed pretty quickly. Arthas didn't need any more motivation to chase Mal'ganis than he already had, but that was planned to be a main story element. There was supposed to be a love story between Arthas and Jaina, but that didn't work out. It was a bit too Raynor and Kerrigan again, because Jaina was going to become a banshee or something... I don't remember very well, but that plot point obviously got moved to Sylvanas Windrunner. There were a lot of similarities between the Starcraft and WarCraft 3 plotlines, to the point where the first few drafts got sent back multiple times.

http://pretzel-lectern.blogspot.com/2016/05/behind-warcraft-iii-interview-with.html

Also, check out audio interviews with Pardo and Metzen on the development process. Gameplay always comes first, the reasons for this or that confrontation second.

And this was before Blizzard became more corporate. Now they have dedicated people that would assess the impact of game changing decisions on the income of the company. So no point in blaming Golden.

 

[ZodoZ]

All it is, is a grind.

Exactly. A very ingenious mouse trap.

 

[Popiel]

Exactly. A very ingenious mouse trap.

Ingenious? Not really. Game is now built around grind and they don't hide at all. They celebrate it. And perhaps that's a good thing. MMORPG is a shrinking market and Blizzard must have realized that they're speaking to a crowd of already convinced people. Building the game around such people playing it, professionalising whole ordeal (big world first race which is raid by raid only getting bigger). It's not ingenious, it's simple and stupid, yet people fall for it.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Well I guess if you don't like any of the following:

• Mechanics
• Dungeons
• Raids
• PvP
• Exploration
• Questing
• Pet Battles
• Cosmetic collecting
• Gear progression
• Scenarios

Then yeah everything will feel like a grind I guess? In the same sense that any game feels like a grind if you don't like its elements.

 

[Scroo]

I cannot forgive them that they ruined PvP

I'm still subbed tho lol

 

[Cromwell]

I cannot forgive them that they ruined PvP

how?

 

[Popiel]

Well I guess if you don't like any of the following:

• Mechanics
• Dungeons
• Raids
• PvP
• Exploration
• Questing
• Pet Battles
• Cosmetic collecting
• Gear progression
• Scenarios

Then yeah everything will feel like a grind I guess? In the same sense that any game feels like a grind if you don't like its elements.

What?

Yes, there are some things which can and perhaps should be locked behind grinding (like M+ progress, even though I'm not sure of that, now it's done just badly, but that's not the place to elaborate on that), but what you seem to graciously miss is that story progress, that is continuation of the plot, is locked behind fucking grind as well. Not so very much, but have you tried to do Nazjatar questline? I don't think so, 'cause you would know. You need to grind reps to do that, besides, as far as I recall you need to grind reps to do main zone questlines as well. That's fucked up and people responsible shouldn't be maknig games no more.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Yes, there are some things which can and perhaps should be locked behind grinding (like M+ progress, even though I'm not sure of that, now it's done just badly, but that's not the place to elaborate on that), but what you seem to graciously miss is that story progress, that is continuation of the plot, is locked behind fucking grind as well. Not so very much, but have you tried to do Nazjatar questline? I don't think so, 'cause you would know. You need to grind reps to do that, besides, as far as I recall you need to grind reps to do main zone questlines as well. That's fucked up and people responsible shouldn't be maknig games no more.

I have no idea what you're talking about, you seem to be complaining about nothing.

If you don't like the game maybe go play a different game?

 

[J1M]

Well I guess if you don't like any of the following:

• Mechanics
• Dungeons
• Raids
• PvP
• Exploration
• Questing
• Pet Battles
• Cosmetic collecting
• Gear progression
• Scenarios

Then yeah everything will feel like a grind I guess? In the same sense that any game feels like a grind if you don't like its elements.

The game has so much visual noise now that a fair number of things on that list are ruined by it alone.

 

[Metro]

Lol @ that list.

 

[ZodoZ]

You forgot gathering. A person has to love gathering stuff.
No one character can gather or mine or skin everything (which a decent player will need)
Raiding is only for UBER geared competent players of which 90-95% of WoW players are not.
Not to say casual/HC players can't have fun sans raiding. There is still PVP and Arena iirc.
Exploration? Not so much. Maybe for first few hours in a new area but by the time a 2-8th character is traipsing around said new area it just gets old AF.
Yeah a player can join a guild but then there are all new challenges involved with being in a guild. Some not so great.
Pet battles? Srsly? Collecting pets?
Cosmetic collecting was a tedious past time, has some use in PVP as gear camo
Gear Progression. Running a dungeon over and over to gear each character...tedious and mind numbing.
Questing? Running 100s of quests over and over for each toon for sub-standard gear (just to be sold for gold) or reputation...again just so tedious.
Mechanics - some button pressing and rotations to be able to say ooh look I'm the highest DPS! Does occasionally take some skill or thought.

I did like warrior in PVP and dungeons/raids - just didn't want to have to level 6-7 other toons including alliance side characters.

Oh and don't forget the bots in Battlegrounds. An entire team controlled by one player that just run around and one shot everyone on other team.
And the chinese farmers who have a schedule of when rare resources spawn making it next to impossible for anyone else to get 'em..

I'll pass, but maybe a dip in to Classic for the battlegrounds...after the hype and player base dwindles again so will my play time.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

LOL yea ur rite LOL this game is hot garbo only idots play this shit HAHA

can't w8 for classic tho that was lit xD xD

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

A was playing Retail a month ago.

Doing the following was fun:

- I'd misdirect aggro on our healer and then my buddy and I would votekick him out just writing "bad" as reason. Most of the time people voted "yes" without even looking, cause who the fuck pays attention at this game anymore?

- I'd sometimes votekick our top-1 DPS saying "zero dps". Nobody bothers to check.

- Other times I'd start marking mobs with "skull", "cross", etc and then saying "tank, stop marking them we're not in classic, retard" and then we'd votekick the tank.

- Other times I'd say "oh man, I miss classic so much... can't wait for it to release" and then I'd do zero damage the entire instance on principle, and I'd chat in the party about everything and nothing. I'd larp a classic player for 10 mins, and then we'd votekick someone else saying "classic retard" and they'd hit 'yes' forgetting to read the name.

That's the only mechanic I enjoy in modern retail.

 

[thesheeep]

A was playing Retail a month ago.

Doing the following was fun:

- I'd misdirect aggro on our healer and then my buddy and I would votekick him out just writing "bad" as reason. Most of the time people voted "yes" without even looking, cause who the fuck pays attention at this game anymore?

- I'd sometimes votekick our top-1 DPS saying "zero dps". Nobody bothers to check.

- Other times I'd start marking mobs with "skull", "cross", etc and then saying "tank, stop marking them we're not in classic, retard" and then we'd votekick the tank.

- Other times I'd say "oh man, I miss classic so much... can't wait for it to release" and then I'd do zero damage the entire instance on principle, and I'd chat in the party about everything and nothing. I'd larp a classic player for 10 mins, and then we'd votekick someone else saying "classic retard" and they'd hit 'yes' forgetting to read the name.

That's the only mechanic I enjoy in modern retail.

Really should have made videos of all of that.

 

[J1M]

Modern blizzard will ban your account for posting a video like that. Even if everyone involved thought it was funny.

 

[Popiel]

Yes, there are some things which can and perhaps should be locked behind grinding (like M+ progress, even though I'm not sure of that, now it's done just badly, but that's not the place to elaborate on that), but what you seem to graciously miss is that story progress, that is continuation of the plot, is locked behind fucking grind as well. Not so very much, but have you tried to do Nazjatar questline? I don't think so, 'cause you would know. You need to grind reps to do that, besides, as far as I recall you need to grind reps to do main zone questlines as well. That's fucked up and people responsible shouldn't be maknig games no more.

I have no idea what you're talking about, you seem to be complaining about nothing.

If you don't like the game maybe go play a different game?

If you mindlessly grind your life away in current WoW then no wonder that you managed to miss so many things to not know what I'm talking about. To progress the storyline of Nazjatar, for example, at some point you need to just mindlessly grind companion exp for several days. To progress current faction zone storyline (be it Kul Tiras or Zandalar) you need to farm rep and do dungeon/raid content (in Legion it was the same with Suramar, which people kindly forgot...). Blizz doesn’t advance storyline through normal gameplay anymore, they lock it behind M+ and other types of gated content, which would not be bad in itself, but problem here is that dungeons and raids are today pure gear checks, to get good gear you need to grind, and grind, and grind (no bad luck protection mechanics exist as far as I know). Mindlessly, ‘cause there are no interesting things to do in this game no more (okay, I’ll give where it’s due, they improved their game at least somewhat with Mechagon, even though this zone is grindiest of them all). You just repeat, and repeat, and repeat the same stuff over and over. For months, ‘cause story now progresses slower than ever. I think thing is that game now forces you to play it the way people who are interested in M+ and hard raid progress are playin' it - grind, grind until you're done and 430+ iLvl. That's fine if you want that, whole game forcing you to play that way however? Not cool.

And yes, you are correct, if I don't like the game I don't need to play it. That's why I don't play WoW no more.

 

[Wilian]

Now without trying to sound like a Blizzard shill, you make quite some bold assumptions here considering that it seems you yourself have little clue on how things are working at the moment.

If you mindlessly grind your life away in current WoW then no wonder that you managed to miss so many things to not know what I'm talking about. To progress the storyline of Nazjatar, for example, at some point you need to just mindlessly grind companion exp for several days.

Doing 3 fast quests a day is not a grind. Not in any manner of the word. Grinding is you going out, shutting your brain off and doing same repetitive task over and over for hours end. Locking something behind repeatable daily quest is a timegate, not a grindgate. Even if we account in the pitiful amount of follower XP you can get from killing very specific rares, you'd be running out of them quickly assuming they ever pop up. There's not a single aspect of grind related to these followers unless you equate simply doing something in a grind, in which everything but standing around to you is grind.

here is that dungeons and raids are today pure gear checks, to get good gear you need to grind, and grind, and grind (no bad luck protection mechanics exist as far as I know).

This also is quite funny comment to make because one of the main complaints of BFA is just how worthless gear has become because you get showered with it from everywhere and everything you do. With several WQs a day offering gear to Emissary rewards dropping them at raid levels to all the alternative ways of obtaining it like guaranteed gear drops from Warfronts or now a literal vendor where you can buy the exact pieces you want for cheap and then upgrade them into raid levels without breaking a sweat this game has never had so much of a 'bad luck protection' as it has now and it has completely devalued the gear, especially so as Titanforge and Warforges happen so often you end up oftentimes with vastly more powerful gear than you even expected to have. People can easily go from itemlevel 310 (your starting point after leveling up roughly) to itemlevel 415 which is raiddrop level in day's or twos time.

Mindlessly, ‘cause there are no interesting things to do in this game no more (okay, I’ll give where it’s due, they improved their game at least somewhat with Mechagon, even though this zone is grindiest of them all).

Nice of you to bring Mechagon up because it is the first real grind outside of AP that this game has had in a long time. Beyond that you've only listed different timegates you can chip at or teadmill like gearing you can finish fast. Once more, something is not a grind if you can't grind it and only do set of handful activities per day. That's inconvenience made for pacing, not a grind. Now in general I don't agree with timegates and I'd actual prefer a chance to grind them out but it is what it is.

You just repeat, and repeat, and repeat the same stuff over and over. For months, ‘cause story now progresses slower than ever. I think thing is that game now forces you to play it the way people who are interested in M+ and hard raid progress are playin' it - grind, grind until you're done and 430+ iLvl. That's fine if you want that, whole game forcing you to play that way however? Not cool.

Basically you are made to play the game and that is a bother for you. It's sort of funny that your complaints are nearly exact opposites of the public complaints that can be read across multitude of forums that;
A) There is nothing to do and
B) Gear has lost it's value because it's showered out from everywhere with Titanforges providing Mythic raiding gear to world quests

You put a stark contrast against almoust anyone who has ever spoken regarding current state of WoW

 

[Popiel]

Biggest difference I can see between what I wrote and what you claim (mind you, I have zero experience arguing WoW anywhere, I'm not a part of the community discussing the game, I just played it) is difference of terms. What I think of as grind or grindy you say is not grind at all. Well, we differ in that and perhaps that's the key argument. Getting my Inowari to level 30 was a nightmare, levelling him daily was a nightmare and I consider it a grind precisely. You claiming that grinding is going on for hours mindlessly repeating the same actions is exactly what I felt, even though I know it didn’t took literal hours or full days. I’m perhaps less willing to accept that mode of play.

You also seem to extensively quote me but miss quite important parts of what I wrote, that is the means through which Blizzard now advances the plot of the game and gates advancement of said plot behind grindgates (you would perhaps consider rep farming not as a grind...?).

you make quite some bold assumptions here considering that it seems you yourself have little clue on how things are working at the moment.

If that's the case then certainly not 'cause I didn't play the game. I did play it. Not highly competetively mind you, but I did. It boils down to evaluation.

Basically you are made to play the game and that is a bother for you. It's sort of funny that your complaints are nearly exact opposites of the public complaints that can be read across multitude of forums that;
A) There is nothing to do and
B) Gear has lost it's value because it's showered out from everywhere with Titanforges providing Mythic raiding gear to world quests

You put a stark contrast against almoust anyone who has ever spoken regarding current state of WoW

I'm not entirely sure why you are adamant on bringing about the ad populum, I don't find it appealing at all. Unless you just follow it and agree with it, in this case, well, you could have said it by yourself without appealing to the stance of the masses (also, watch out for those lowly flying quantifiers like almost anyone who has ever spoken)

A) There is nothing to do and

While factually wrong this problem can be connected with how samey and grindy all activities which game now provides are.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Biggest difference I can see between what I wrote and what you claim (mind you, I have zero experience arguing WoW anywhere, I'm not a part of the community discussing the game, I just played it) is difference of terms. What I think of as grind or grindy you say is not grind at all. Well, we differ in that and perhaps that's the key argument. Getting my Inowari to level 30 was a nightmare, levelling him daily was a nightmare and I consider it a grind precisely. You claiming that grinding is going on for hours mindlessly repeating the same actions is exactly what I felt, even though I know it didn’t took literal hours or full days. I’m perhaps less willing to accept that mode of play.

Idk wtf an inowari is, all I do is run dungeons and raids and collect pets while waiting between runs, because that's fun for me. There are literally tons of dungeons and raids and they have so many complicated mechanics that i'm not sure how you can say they're mindless unless you're horribly overgeared. You always have the choice to run dungeons or raids at appropriate difficulties for your gear.

It sounds like you're more interested in the story and you don't want to do required quests or whatever, which I sympathize with because I think questing is p boring in this game, so why not just watch a let's play on 2x speed or read lore guides on wowhead?

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

It's sort of funny that your complaints are nearly exact opposites of the public complaints that can be read across multitude of forums that;
A) There is nothing to do and
B) Gear has lost it's value because it's showered out from everywhere with Titanforges providing Mythic raiding gear to world quests

You put a stark contrast against almoust anyone who has ever spoken regarding current state of WoW

I for one am super happy that relevant gear has no value so I can actually just jump in and play the parts of the game that I enjoy. I'd definitely quit if retail didn't have these catch up mechanics every patch. People who want meaningful and lasting progressions will probably be happy in classic once it releases.

 

[GarfunkeL]

No surprise that the biggest advocate for modern WoW is a guy who wants to play a single-player game where nothing matters.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

No surprise that the biggest advocate for modern WoW is a guy who wants to play a single-player game where nothing matters.

yeah dungeons and raids are single player

 

[ZodoZ]

No surprise that the biggest advocate for modern WoW is a guy who wants to play a single-player game where nothing matters.

yeah dungeons and raids are single player

Dungeons and raids "can" be single player...
Good source of gold income and items for alts..+ gear for cosmetic transmutes
I had several raids on farm years ago. Molten Core, Naxx, several others I can't recall name of
Thunderfury is a PITA but eventually it can be farmed.

Adding a bunch of retadred's doesn't support your cause bro it just makes you look juvenile ( XxPuS5Y_HunT3R420xX <----- point made for us by you )

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Adding a bunch of retadred's doesn't support your cause bro it just makes you look juvenile ( XxPuS5Y_HunT3R420xX <----- point made for us by you )

 

[GarfunkeL]

Dungeons and raids in WoW (aside from Mythic) have not been about teamwork for years. You're doing the LFG-LFR easy-mode instances literally to kill time. The rewards don't matter, there is no achievement in completing them and you're grinding them without having to communicate with anyone. Now that BfA did away with what little story coherence remained, there's not even a story to progress through.

But you keep spamming, that sure shows us how smart and knowledgeable you are.