Wizardry Wizardry 8 - first time playing

[Parabalus]

Wiz/Psi is a better combo, because realms do not overlap that much - if you're out of MP in fire/water/air, you can always resort to psionic blast/insanity/mindflay.

Divinity is useful only if you don't have valk or gadgeteer. As I said earlier, gadgets cover all the most important Divinity spells, so there's no need to waste half of the Bishop skill points there. Also, bear in mind that Bard has instruments that can cast heal all and magic screen, so having both him and gadgie, makes divinity caster useless.

Why not take Div as well?

3-school doesn't really require any autism, it's worth it, even if just for Rest All.

 

[Strange Fellow]

I don't think I should recruit RFS-81 right?

wrong

 

[xuerebx]

With right formation you can put up to 9 characters on the frontline.

Note that you can have only 8 characters total in the party.

Well obviously I know nothing . Kindly enlighten me!

wrong

He looks pretty cool so if I can fit him I will!

 

[Piotrovitz]

Why not take Div as well?
3-school doesn't really require any autism, it's worth it, even if just for Rest All.

It does require mild autism of casting out-of-combat spells > resting routine, otherwise the realms will go up slowly.
Unless, like I mentioned earlier, you build your bishop around 2 main schools, and once you got most of your crucial shit covered, you start to put points into divinity, to get at least rest all (which is one of the only spells that's not covered by any other school/instrument/gadget), and maybe superman.

That could work, but still, I prefer to have two bishops with complimentary schools, that can put some points into realms on lvl ups.

 

[DraQ]

With right formation you can put up to 9 characters on the frontline.

Note that you can have only 8 characters total in the party.

Well obviously I know nothing . Kindly enlighten me!

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[xuerebx]

Never would have thought of that! Although my fairy mage would get melee'd hard very often with that formation.

 

[DraQ]

Never would have thought of that! Although my fairy mage would get melee'd hard very often with that formation.

You keep your mage in the rear slot then (just watch for backstabs). That simply illustrates maximum number of potential frontliners. The game won't even give you as many as maximum party size is 8.

Also, formation is not a static thing, you can adapt it to changing circumstances in combat (and formation changes in combat are temporary and auto-revert when combat ends), for example, if fighting extended range enemies you can shift main short range melees from sides to point and spread extended range melees to center and sides to push attackers back and out of having your mages in reach.

One fun advantage of this particular formation is that if one of your frontliners gets incapacitated (webbed, paralyzed, unconscious, just low on HP) you can move other frontliners between them and the enemy (to the point slot) and very effectively shield them until healed.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Since I use a samurai, a bard and a rogue on the front line using melee weapons, and a valk behind them using polearms, I don't think I should recruit RFS-81 right? It can only attack using bare hands, so if not on the front-line I guess the monk would be mostly useless?

He's very good with his bare hands but he can use sticks too, i think he can use the Hawaï Bo for example and many more but the lack of magic makes him a bad choice for cursed weapons, even extended ones.

Never would have thought of that! Although my fairy mage would get melee'd hard very often with that formation.

It requires way more micro-management than a formation with the mages protected from close range attacks in the middle.
You'll probably have to move everyone each turn before the turn ends (so they use the "new" temporary formation next turn).

 

[DraQ]

Never would have thought of that! Although my fairy mage would get melee'd hard very often with that formation.

It requires way more micro-management than a formation with the mages protected from close range attacks in the middle.
You'll probably have to move everyone each turn before the turn ends (so they use the "new" temporary formation next turn).

How so?

It is less sensitive to facing than the default formation, if anything (as sensitive as default formation with default positioned RPCs). The only thing it does worse is that it needs more urgency if facing enemy that can bypass a row with melee attacks, because not only will they hit mages (as they would with default formation too), but if they do it before mages have time to change facing, they may also backstab them.

 

[Darth Canoli]

How so?

It is less sensitive to facing than the default formation, if anything (as sensitive as default formation with default positioned RPCs). The only thing it does worse is that it needs more urgency if facing enemy that can bypass a row with melee attacks, because not only will they hit mages (as they would with default formation too), but if they do it before mages have time to change facing, they may also backstab them.

Because you're going to be surrounded, and as your squishy characters have nowhere to hide, you'll have to clear one "side" and then switch them there and then more enemies will approach and you'll do it again, and again ...

You could of course try to fight back to a wall whenever you can but you can't do it all the time and most of the time, it means wasting time waiting for the enemies or baiting them to approach and back down but even then, sometimes they'll catch you pants down and if there is some dangerous spellcasters, you'll have to cast some defenses or debilitating offensive spells before trying to move.

So anything but the four external sides guarded and the mages in the middle will expose your mages and they could die pretty fast ...

It's playable but requires to move them around often.

 

[xuerebx]

I'm trying to adapt my formation now for tougher fights, but fighting with my back against a wall is the most consistently successful tactic as said above.

Anyway, I think I progressed quite a bit. Swapped a fake artefact for the real one from the Mooks for the T'rang, and was just given level 5 clearance with the Umpani. My next quest for the T'rang is to get ship coordinates.

Pretty interesting how I started the game with no clue on the lore, the races etc, but now it's tying together. The story seems relatively straightforward but still quite engaging, and interesting.

 

[Invictus]

Very interesting thread and happy to see the users who actually know what the hell they are taking about... kind of apprehensive when I see Templar and Sigourn spewing bullshit around

As for some comments here; if training your spell skills considered by spamming spells and then resting, then how is that different from my approach (the one I have used for more than 28 years where I try to maximize spells schools by having my ninja cast some acid bursts or stamina when the combat seems under control (I am writing this while combat is going on btw) or actively switching spells on my Bishop to develop his magic skills?

Both approaches seems to be are doing the same way and to be honest they are both kind of encouraged by the developers too since if you a “get better by doing” then you should take advantage of that system since frankly starter hybrid character skills require you to develop their skills purposely

Vanilla characters such as Mage or Fighter tend to get better by doing what they are good at, such as casting spells and fighting respectively
But Bishops or Ninjas start with a very different approach where you have to actively have them try new skills to get them better because if you don’t they will really suck

Ninjas and Rangers can cast Alchemist spells but since they start with very low magic skills you need to actively go out of your way to develop those skills rather than just using them straight up since they will backfire and fizzle a lot in combat if they don’t know what they are doing

I have always liked Bishops because if you develop them correctly they can be a one shoe fits all character which can cast buff, heals and offensive magic better than almost very other class

Btw I see there are some very popular “recipes” like fairy Ninja or Mook Figher which make them very good characters to make life easier for newbies... but isn’t the grindy character development half of the fun here?

Do you remember throwing darts in Darklands to develop the throwing skills of your chars just so they could throw potions when neccesary in the Templar Monastery?
Or casting Zap on your dagger over and over or sneaking everywhere in Quest for Glory?
Or making a “little heal” 1 HP spell in Morrowind or Daggerfall to develop your magic skills?

I never considered those as “power gaming” or cheating to be honest and while a bit “grindy” isn’t that part of the fun of these kinds of games?

When I see those pew pew modern games like Oblivion where spells are just another skill with no option for failure or repercussions I always prefer developing my skills... it’s not very “fun” grinding skills but is kind of relaxing in the same way running around Dark Souls where you know the enemy positions, move sets and terrain is “fun” it’s just doing a little grunt work to make sure your skills will be up to par when you really need them

Oh and my favorite Bishop build by far has always been Dracon Bishop; in the beginning you develop skills very slowly and their Breath Attack is very good fall back option at lower levels once their magic points are spent plus they have some good resistances

Ahhh this quarantine is turning my mind into mush so it is good to do some interesting relexions here

 

[Darth Canoli]

Pretty interesting how I started the game with no clue on the lore, the races etc, but now it's tying together. The story seems relatively straightforward but still quite engaging, and interesting.

Absolutely, simplicity done right, if you replay it with an imported party, you'll start with your allies, the intro will be different and even many dialogues will change.

Btw I see there are some very popular “recipes” like fairy Ninja or Mook Figher which make them very good characters to make life easier for newbies... but isn’t the grindy character development half of the fun here?

[...]

Or casting Zap on your dagger over and over or sneaking everywhere in Quest for Glory?

Absolutely, that's the only way to train hybrids; other than the Valkyrie which is low maintenance; in both magic and armed combat.
Anything but casting spells and resting for hours or the retarded spiders training i've read about in the monastery (someone putting everyone in defense in continuous turn mode for hours to train the shield skill) is fair game.

Usually, i train samurai and ninjas by having them cast buffs before the mage/Bishop cast them at higher level or they cast spells on turn one before the enemy closes in, or use spells when facing weak enemies or like you do when the enemies are close to their demise.
If you don't try hard, they're never getting any good at casting spells.

 

[Black]

I saw the darndest thing yesterday, a guy was fighting some plants on Arnika Road, tried to cast Dracon's Breath but he was blind so the spell was cast on one of the plants instead. Unfortunately I didn't get to see if it used the breath attack.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Anyway, I got too cocky on my ironman run, and got half of my party wiped on arnika-trynton road by - wait for embaressment - packs of Picuses.

Thought I'd nuke them from afar with fireball and fumes, but it turned out there were couple of bigger variants of them (lvl 10 I think), which can cause blindness with their attacks.
One turn, they all closed in and surrounded my party and it all went downhill.

Could've survive this in the end, but having no money for res powders (it's like 2k each?) after spending 10k on thieves dagger closed the deal. Of fucking well :d

Tried another iron run after this major fuck up, and this time I messed shit up even more comically - wanted to bump up my Bard's music skill a bit, so I've used the charm casting viola on Antone couple of times. After 3 or 4 fails, he got pissed and attacked me - tried to run away and wait for the fucker to calm down, but it turned out that whole Arnika's militia wanted me dead now.

On my every run with a Bard, I use the Viola couple of times on Arnika's vendors (hoping I'd get better prices, but it apparently doesn't work that way), and this is totally new to me that after couple of fails, the person you're trying to charm is going berserk on you.

Last autosave is from entrance to lvl 2 of monastery

 

[DraQ]

Because you're going to be surrounded, and as your squishy characters have nowhere to hide, you'll have to clear one "side" and then switch them there and then more enemies will approach and you'll do it again, and again ...

A few points:

1. If you actually get surrounded, you are probably about to get fucked anyway unless it's by weak enemies that get cleaned up by few AoEs.
   
2. What are you going to guard your rear with if you keep squishies in the middle? Melee dudes and dudettes? This way you are deconcentrating your damage output even more - even if they have extended range weapons they won't reach front. I guess mail-clad rangers/gadgeteers might be an option but they are going to suck in melee due to lack of skills.
3. If the enemy has extended range your squishies have nowhere to hide anyway.
   
4. You don't need to shift your party any more than with "your" formation - you just temporarily (for the duration of battle) settle for one that works. If it's against a swarm of short range attackers, you wall your mages in the middle (but see 1. ), if it's against extended range ones, you put two layers of tanks between mages and the threat, if anemies manage to get at your back while you are fending them off in a chokepoint, you sandwich your casters between frontliners, and so on.

 

[xuerebx]

Fuck Nessie.

That is all.

I'm running away around it, which I assume is the way it should be because that fucker is MUCH stronger than my whole party.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Maybe your're just underlevelled - there's not much strategy to beat him tbh, but potions of superman and armormelt seem to help a lot.

 

[xuerebx]

My party is around level 14 on average, and he's 26. First problem with fights I'm having is underwater (can't cast fireball!). I don't grind so maybe usually at this stage players are at a higher level.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Level or two more won't change a thing here and fireball wouldn't help you either - you just need to have hard hitters buffed up with superman/haste, and armormelt the shit out of him. Otherwise you'll be chipping his bloated HP pool too slowly.

 

[xuerebx]

Also, are spells like instant death worth it? I'm always skeptical on powerful spells like that, as the enemy is probably immune to it when it counts.

 

[xuerebx]

Level or two more won't change a thing here and fireball wouldn't help you either - you just need to have hard hitters buffed up with superman/haste, and armormelt the shit out of him. Otherwise you'll be chipping his bloated HP pool too slowly.

Thanks - I'll go for him later. I have armormelt but need to buy some more superman potions.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Also, are spells like instant death worth it? I'm always skeptical on powerful spells like that, as the enemy is probably immune to it when it counts.

Single-target? No, although the gadget can be fun to use since you can spam it. Group or AoE critical spells can be very effective against low-level but hard-hitting mobs, or mobs with high HP but low resistances. You'll encounter something like that soon enough.

One of my favourite things about the game is the viability of criticals, both from spells and physical attacks.

 

[Black]

Also, are spells like instant death worth it? I'm always skeptical on powerful spells like that, as the enemy is probably immune to it when it counts.

Eh, most of the time no. I only take them when I'm out of anything more useful to take and have spare spell picks.

 

[Darth Canoli]

5. I'm just arguing because i want you to be wrong but my arguments don't make any sense.

I re-played Wizardry 8 more times than you had sex in your entire life and being surrounded by a strong party doesn't mean shit, if you spend hours of playing hide and seek with enemies always fighting back to a wall, you should stop and play Japanese shitzardry instead, your party will never get surrounded there.