DraQ
Arcane
Does anyone else have problems with games trying to represent even a very simplistic take on modern/futuristic corridor combat this way?
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Why the hell aren't there more "space opera" / futuristic CRPGs?
- Thread starter Louis_Cypher
- Start date
Beowulf
Arcane
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What's the difference? Especially with sci-fi, that's less "sci" and more "fi".
rusty_shackleford
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It's a game made by two people and the combat isn't the focus. It's actually really good.Does anyone else have problems with games trying to represent even a very simplistic take on modern/futuristic corridor combat this way?
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...-space-sandbox-game-by-trese-brothers.112890/
DraQ
Arcane
That's a good excuse to make it simplistic, NOT to make it look and feel wrong.It's a game made by two people and the combat isn't the focus.Does anyone else have problems with games trying to represent even a very simplistic take on modern/futuristic corridor combat this way?
With fantasy combat it's borderline acceptable to just have two sides stand there and trade blows, but when most of the combatants are armed with guns it just starts feeling incredibly wrong.
Louis_Cypher
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I'll add a few more sci-fi settings, for interest:
---
Our Milky Way Galaxy
There are 60 stars, of which 50 are red dwarf stars, in 52 star systems, within 16.3 light years of Earth.
There are approx 2,000 stars, in 1,400 star systems, within 50 light years of Earth.
There are approx 14,600 stars, within 100 light years of Earth.
There are approx 260,000 (visible) stars, within 250 light years of Earth.
There are approx 2,000,000 stars, within 500 light years of Earth.
The galaxy contains approximately 100,000,000,000-400,000,000,000 stars, and is 170,000-200,000 light years in diameter, counting newly discovered far regions of the disk.
Most stars seem to have planets, and thus the number of exoplanets is similar to the number of stars, at least.
85% of stars in the Milky Way are red dwarfs (minimum around 100 billion).
Red dwarf habitable zones lie much closer to the host star, owing to their lower brightness, which may result in harmful radiation.
Planets close to the small red dwarfs may be tidally locked, producing worlds with narrow habitable bands at the terminator.
Most stars, perhaps up to 85%, are binary.
Half of exoplanet host stars are binary.
Around half a dozen new stars are produced per year.
Land or desert worlds may be predominant over water planets, in terms of potential habitable planets, because they have larger habitable zones.
Potentially habitable - pessimistic estimate: 6.4 billion potentially habitable.
Potentially habitable - middle road estimate: 40-80 billion potentially habitable.
Star Trek's Milky Way Galaxy:
The entire United Federation of Planets exists within about a 250 light year diameter sphere of Earth, meaning it is within the small black dot on the map, within the 1500 light year white circle.
It has about 150 members in the 2370s, and more than a thousand planets in total, which may include small colonies, scientific research outposts, military outposts, and planetary Starbases.
The most inhabited known part of the local galaxy surrounds the Rigel system near Klingon space, where many ancient cultures such as the Orions have had colonies for thousands of years.
Within a 500 light year sphere surrounding the Federation lie many empires, including the Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire, Cardassian Union, Tholian Assembly and Breen Confederacy
Beyond a 1500 light year sphere that is generally known, the Federation has sent automated probes, to survey systems briefly, probably cataloguing them with numbers like HD 202772A.
Famous worlds:
Mass Effect's Milky Way Galaxy:
The Mass Effect setting covers a much wider proportion of the Milky Way, but has far less inhabited worlds than Star Trek, because there huge unexplored spaces between mass relays.
Probably vast unexplored voids thousands of light years across are totally unknown, being outside the reach of non-relay FTL travel, creating tiny inhabited pockets around the galaxy.
The political capital of the Mass Effect setting, The Citadel, lies within the Serpent Nebula, and the human homeworld Earth, lies within the Local Cluster, both within civilized Citadel Space.
Several political regions exist, such as the frontier worlds of the Attican Traverse, home to many Prothean Ruins, and the Terminus Systems, which are home to antagonistic governments.
Famous worlds:
Star Wars's "Galaxy Far Far Away":
It's not generally appreciated that the Star Wars galaxy is somewhat similar to Mass Effect, with huge voids of uncontrolled systems; except here civilized systems lie along hyperspace corridors.
Essentially, the hyperspace corridors are like the Roman Empire's road network, with colonies springing up near where hyperspace travel is safe, and backwaters being further away from them.
There are probably quite a lot of non-member civilizations of the Galactic Republic that lie within what looks like Republic borders on most galactic maps, creating complex political relationships.
This means there may be many abandoned, forgotten, uninhabited, or uncontacted systems off major hyperlanes, and a lot of wild space or unknown regions within the borders of the Republic.
If you look at a population map of the Star Wars galaxy, most of the Republic's population is concentrated around Coruscant, making the hyperlane arms more like sparse colonial provinces.
Famous worlds:
Stargate's Local Group of Galaxies
Stargate SG1 largely took place in the Milk Way galaxy, where the Goa'uld System Lords have their domains, and Stargate Atlantis in the Pegasus Dwarf galaxy where the Ancients migrated.
It is unknown from which galaxy the Ancients originally came, which would be today be called the Ori galaxy, this is where the invasion force of four Ori warships originated, arriving via wormhole.
It is also unknown where the Asgard originate, possibly from a galaxy outside the local group. Needless to say, the Stargate setting is extremely sparsely settled compared to all of the others.
Famous worlds:
Warhammer 40,000's Milky Way Galaxy
Probably the most populated setting on this list by far, even compared to Star Wars's Galactic Republic, the Imperium of Man has at least a million human settled worlds, including ecumenopoli.
This is still sparse settlement on galactic scale, and entire systems are known to be lost due to warp storms, exterminatus, or simple beaurocratic rounding errors made by clerks on Holy Terra.
The galaxy is divided into five regions; Segmentum Solar, Segmenum Pacificus, Segmentum Tempestus, Segmentum Obscurus, and the largest and furthest in extent, Segmentum Ultima.
The holy light of the astronomicon barely reaches the furthest stars of Segmenum Ultima, the Ghoul Stars, where once human colonies lay; they are beyond the God Emperor's grace now.
Famous worlds:
Isaac Asimov's Milky Way Galaxy
The original Galactic Empire that inspired Star Wars and Warhammer 40,000's Galactic Empire and Imperium of Man, with it's capitol on the planet Trantor, an ecumenopolis requiring food imports.
Over the course of the Robot Series (around 3000 AD), Empire Series, and Foundation Series (25000 AD), Asimov charted the rise and fall of the empire, from robotic labourers to galactic trade.
Through the science of Psychohistory, a mass statistical analysis of human behavior, Hari Seldon predicts the decadence and decline of the Empire, setting up a Foundation to preserve civilization.
Famous worlds:
Frank Herbert's Milky Way Galaxy
Dune's FTL travel consists of far jumps, similar to some of the other setting mentioned here, resulting in distant colonies, with scattered planets surrounding stars like Delta Pavonis and Canopus.
Similar to many other settings that take place in humanity's far future, Old Earth is a distant memory, no longer existing by the time of the assignment of governorship of Arrakis to House Artreides.
Famous worlds:
---
Our Milky Way Galaxy
There are 60 stars, of which 50 are red dwarf stars, in 52 star systems, within 16.3 light years of Earth.
There are approx 2,000 stars, in 1,400 star systems, within 50 light years of Earth.
There are approx 14,600 stars, within 100 light years of Earth.
There are approx 260,000 (visible) stars, within 250 light years of Earth.
There are approx 2,000,000 stars, within 500 light years of Earth.
The galaxy contains approximately 100,000,000,000-400,000,000,000 stars, and is 170,000-200,000 light years in diameter, counting newly discovered far regions of the disk.
Most stars seem to have planets, and thus the number of exoplanets is similar to the number of stars, at least.
85% of stars in the Milky Way are red dwarfs (minimum around 100 billion).
Red dwarf habitable zones lie much closer to the host star, owing to their lower brightness, which may result in harmful radiation.
Planets close to the small red dwarfs may be tidally locked, producing worlds with narrow habitable bands at the terminator.
Most stars, perhaps up to 85%, are binary.
Half of exoplanet host stars are binary.
Around half a dozen new stars are produced per year.
Land or desert worlds may be predominant over water planets, in terms of potential habitable planets, because they have larger habitable zones.
Potentially habitable - pessimistic estimate: 6.4 billion potentially habitable.
Potentially habitable - middle road estimate: 40-80 billion potentially habitable.
Star Trek's Milky Way Galaxy:
The entire United Federation of Planets exists within about a 250 light year diameter sphere of Earth, meaning it is within the small black dot on the map, within the 1500 light year white circle.
It has about 150 members in the 2370s, and more than a thousand planets in total, which may include small colonies, scientific research outposts, military outposts, and planetary Starbases.
The most inhabited known part of the local galaxy surrounds the Rigel system near Klingon space, where many ancient cultures such as the Orions have had colonies for thousands of years.
Within a 500 light year sphere surrounding the Federation lie many empires, including the Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire, Cardassian Union, Tholian Assembly and Breen Confederacy
Beyond a 1500 light year sphere that is generally known, the Federation has sent automated probes, to survey systems briefly, probably cataloguing them with numbers like HD 202772A.
Famous worlds:
- - Proxima Colony (Proxima Centauri, distance 4.4 ly, 17.64 days at Warp 4.5 old scale)
- - Vulcan (40 Eridani A, distance 16.2 ly, 64.93 days at Warp 4.5 old scale)
- - Andoria (Procyon, distance 11.5 ly, 46.09 days at Warp 4.5 old scale)
- - Tellar (61 Cygni, distance 11.4 ly, 45.69 days at Warp 4.5 old scale)
- - Vega Colony (Vega, distance 25 ly, 100.0 days at Warp 4.5 old scale)
- - Deneva Colony (Kappa Fornacis, 72 ly, 300.0 days at Warp 4.5 old scale)
Mass Effect's Milky Way Galaxy:
The Mass Effect setting covers a much wider proportion of the Milky Way, but has far less inhabited worlds than Star Trek, because there huge unexplored spaces between mass relays.
Probably vast unexplored voids thousands of light years across are totally unknown, being outside the reach of non-relay FTL travel, creating tiny inhabited pockets around the galaxy.
The political capital of the Mass Effect setting, The Citadel, lies within the Serpent Nebula, and the human homeworld Earth, lies within the Local Cluster, both within civilized Citadel Space.
Several political regions exist, such as the frontier worlds of the Attican Traverse, home to many Prothean Ruins, and the Terminus Systems, which are home to antagonistic governments.
Famous worlds:
- - Terra Nova, first human colony (population 4.4 million)
- - Eden Prime, early human colony (population 4.2 million)
- - Thessia, the Asari homeworld (population 5.5 billion)
- - Palaven, the Turian homeworld (population 6.1 billion)
- - Sur'Kesh, the Salarian homeworld (population 10.3 billion)
- - Tuchanka, the Krogan homeworld (population 2.1 billion)
Star Wars's "Galaxy Far Far Away":
It's not generally appreciated that the Star Wars galaxy is somewhat similar to Mass Effect, with huge voids of uncontrolled systems; except here civilized systems lie along hyperspace corridors.
Essentially, the hyperspace corridors are like the Roman Empire's road network, with colonies springing up near where hyperspace travel is safe, and backwaters being further away from them.
There are probably quite a lot of non-member civilizations of the Galactic Republic that lie within what looks like Republic borders on most galactic maps, creating complex political relationships.
This means there may be many abandoned, forgotten, uninhabited, or uncontacted systems off major hyperlanes, and a lot of wild space or unknown regions within the borders of the Republic.
If you look at a population map of the Star Wars galaxy, most of the Republic's population is concentrated around Coruscant, making the hyperlane arms more like sparse colonial provinces.
Famous worlds:
- - Coruscant, galactic capital and ecumenopolis, also known as Imperial Center
- - Denon, prominent core world and ecumenopolis, second in size to Coruscant
- - Alsakan, prominent core world and ecumenopolis, historical rival of Coruscant
- - Alderaan, prominent core world, destroyed by the Empire
- - Corellia, prominent core world and starship manufacturer
- - Duro, the Duros homeworld, core world and early hyperspace pioneer
- - Kuat, prominent starship manufacturer, orbited by massive shipyards
- - Fondor, prominent starship manufacturer, orbited by dozens of shipyards
- - Nar Shadda, the smuggler's moon orbiting the Hutt capital, an ecumenopolis
- - Mon Cala, the Mon Calamari and Quarren homeworld, prominent starship manufacturer
- - Ryloth, the barren Twi'lek homeworld located in the Outer Rim
Stargate's Local Group of Galaxies
Stargate SG1 largely took place in the Milk Way galaxy, where the Goa'uld System Lords have their domains, and Stargate Atlantis in the Pegasus Dwarf galaxy where the Ancients migrated.
It is unknown from which galaxy the Ancients originally came, which would be today be called the Ori galaxy, this is where the invasion force of four Ori warships originated, arriving via wormhole.
It is also unknown where the Asgard originate, possibly from a galaxy outside the local group. Needless to say, the Stargate setting is extremely sparsely settled compared to all of the others.
Famous worlds:
- - Abydos, first planet discovered by the US Armed Forces, domain of the System Lord Ra
- - Clulak, home of the Jaffa of Apophis, domain of the System Lord Apophis
- - P3X-972, location of the ruined Heliopolis library and knowledge repository
- - Delmak, orbited by the prison moon Netu, domain of the System Lord Sokar
Warhammer 40,000's Milky Way Galaxy
Probably the most populated setting on this list by far, even compared to Star Wars's Galactic Republic, the Imperium of Man has at least a million human settled worlds, including ecumenopoli.
This is still sparse settlement on galactic scale, and entire systems are known to be lost due to warp storms, exterminatus, or simple beaurocratic rounding errors made by clerks on Holy Terra.
The galaxy is divided into five regions; Segmentum Solar, Segmenum Pacificus, Segmentum Tempestus, Segmentum Obscurus, and the largest and furthest in extent, Segmentum Ultima.
The holy light of the astronomicon barely reaches the furthest stars of Segmenum Ultima, the Ghoul Stars, where once human colonies lay; they are beyond the God Emperor's grace now.
Famous worlds:
- - Holy Terra, capital of the Imperium of Man (Location: Segmenum Solar / Classification: Hive World)
- - Mars, home of the Adeptus Mechanicus (Location: Segmenum Solar / Classification: Forge World)
- - Armageddon, prominent industrial world (Location: Segmenum Solar / Classiifcation: Hive World)
- - Necromunda, prominent arms supplier (Location: Segmenum Solar / Classiifcation: Hive World)
- - Cadia, watchman of the Eye of Terror (Location: Segmenum Obscurus / Classification: Fortress World)
Isaac Asimov's Milky Way Galaxy
The original Galactic Empire that inspired Star Wars and Warhammer 40,000's Galactic Empire and Imperium of Man, with it's capitol on the planet Trantor, an ecumenopolis requiring food imports.
Over the course of the Robot Series (around 3000 AD), Empire Series, and Foundation Series (25000 AD), Asimov charted the rise and fall of the empire, from robotic labourers to galactic trade.
Through the science of Psychohistory, a mass statistical analysis of human behavior, Hari Seldon predicts the decadence and decline of the Empire, setting up a Foundation to preserve civilization.
Famous worlds:
- - Aurora, earliest interstellar human colony
- - Trantor, capital of the Galactic Empire
- - Terminus, home of the Foundation
Frank Herbert's Milky Way Galaxy
Dune's FTL travel consists of far jumps, similar to some of the other setting mentioned here, resulting in distant colonies, with scattered planets surrounding stars like Delta Pavonis and Canopus.
Similar to many other settings that take place in humanity's far future, Old Earth is a distant memory, no longer existing by the time of the assignment of governorship of Arrakis to House Artreides.
Famous worlds:
- - Caladan, home of House Artreides (Devlta Pavonis, distance 19.92 ly)
- - Giedi Prime, home of House Harkonnen (36 Ophiuchi, distance 19.5 ly)
- - Kaitain, capital and home of House Corrino (Alpha Piscium, distance 151 ly)
- - Salusa Secundus, prison world (Gamma Piscium, distance 138 ly)
- - Arrakis, aka 'Dune', source of the spice (Canopus, distance 320 ly)
Last edited:
Louis_Cypher
Arcane
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Bonus, matte paintings and CGI of settlements in various settings:
---
Star Trek
Starfleet Academy, San Francisco, Earth
Human mining colony on Earth's moon
Utopia Planetia shipyards above Mars
Shi'Kahr city on Vulcan, homeworld of the Vulcans, a founding member of the Federation
Mount Seleya on Vulcan, homeworld of the Vulcans, a founding member of the Federation
Andoria, homeworld of the Andorians, a founding member of the Federation
Betazed, homeworld of the Betazoids, a member of the Federation
Federation lithium cracking station on Delta Vega
Federation mining colony on Janus VI
Starbase 11
Federation outpost on Relva VII
Human colony on Tau Cygna V
Starbase 74
Failed human colony Turkhana IV
Starbase 515
Qo'noS, homeworld of the Klingons, capital of the Klingon Empire
Klingon colony of Narendra III
Klingon colony on Qu'Vat
Klingon monestary on Boreth
Klingon prison asteroid Rura Penthe
Romulus, homeworld of the Romulans, capital of the Romulan Star Empire
Remus, sister planet of Romulus, homeworld of the Reman offshoot of the Romulans
Cardassia Prime, homeworld of the Cardassians, capital of the Cardassian Union
Bajor, homeworld of the Bajorians
Rigel VII, homeworld of the Rigellians
Eminiar VII, homeworld of the Eminians
Angosia III, homeworld of the Angosians
Krios Prime, homeworld of the Kriosians, a Klingon protectorate
Ventax II, homeworld of the Ventaxians
Ocampa, homeworld of the Ocampa
Farius Prime, homeworld of the Farians
Star Wars
Coruscant
Corellia
Alderaan
Naboo
Geonosis
Kashyyyk
Tatooine
Nal Hutta
Korriban
Farscape
Desert planet
Commerce planet
Shadow depisitory
---
Star Trek
Starfleet Academy, San Francisco, Earth
Human mining colony on Earth's moon
Utopia Planetia shipyards above Mars
Shi'Kahr city on Vulcan, homeworld of the Vulcans, a founding member of the Federation
Mount Seleya on Vulcan, homeworld of the Vulcans, a founding member of the Federation
Andoria, homeworld of the Andorians, a founding member of the Federation
Betazed, homeworld of the Betazoids, a member of the Federation
Federation lithium cracking station on Delta Vega
Federation mining colony on Janus VI
Starbase 11
Federation outpost on Relva VII
Human colony on Tau Cygna V
Starbase 74
Failed human colony Turkhana IV
Starbase 515
Qo'noS, homeworld of the Klingons, capital of the Klingon Empire
Klingon colony of Narendra III
Klingon colony on Qu'Vat
Klingon monestary on Boreth
Klingon prison asteroid Rura Penthe
Romulus, homeworld of the Romulans, capital of the Romulan Star Empire
Remus, sister planet of Romulus, homeworld of the Reman offshoot of the Romulans
Cardassia Prime, homeworld of the Cardassians, capital of the Cardassian Union
Bajor, homeworld of the Bajorians
Rigel VII, homeworld of the Rigellians
Eminiar VII, homeworld of the Eminians
Angosia III, homeworld of the Angosians
Krios Prime, homeworld of the Kriosians, a Klingon protectorate
Ventax II, homeworld of the Ventaxians
Ocampa, homeworld of the Ocampa
Farius Prime, homeworld of the Farians
Star Wars
Coruscant
Corellia
Alderaan
Naboo
Geonosis
Kashyyyk
Tatooine
Nal Hutta
Korriban
Farscape
Desert planet
Commerce planet
Shadow depisitory
Last edited:
Viata
Arcane
Is one even free to use any of these? If not, then that is useless.
Louis_Cypher
Arcane
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I don't know what you think these images are for Viata, but you seem to have mistaken them for having some practical utility.
They are screencaps from TV shows, not art to be stolen by developers for an RPG, if that is what you are suggesting.
They are inspirational, posted for interest, to show appreciation for the talent that went into these settings.
They are screencaps from TV shows, not art to be stolen by developers for an RPG, if that is what you are suggesting.
They are inspirational, posted for interest, to show appreciation for the talent that went into these settings.
Viata
Arcane
Not the art itself, the setting for some of those locations/planets.
Louis_Cypher
Arcane
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I don't understand what you mean... you think the exact same location should be usable?
You are meant to make your own setting, using your own imagination and scientific knowledge, and obviously you can't copyright a general idea.
Harthwain
Magister
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A few reasons:
1) Fantasy is seen as natural setting for RPGs, because most of the popular PNP RPGs originated there.
2) Medievalistic theme feels more secure to operate within. You don't have to come up with convincing technobabble or - god forbid - research the actual hard stuff, you can just make stuff up as you go. As long as you're keeping everything internally coherent (mostly magic) you're good. There is also something to be said about the allure magic being seen as powerful (because wizards are always powerful, right?), having unlimited or near-unlimited potential and just cool to use, whereas technology often has limitations, has mundane explanations and therefore is boring to a lot of people.
3) There is also the matter of scale. Fantasy can be as big or as small as you want and even the biggest scope is usually limited to a whole world. In space opera you need to come up with something that covers a lot of literal space and you need to go into details on multiple levels (even if you go for something like Star Wars): biologically, technologically, sociologically, etc. It requires a lot more creativity.
4) Fantasy is more popular than sci-fi.
jungl
Augur
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Its cause most crpg developers treat science fiction like hard science. Thinking they need a lore dump and logical explanation for everything instead of focusing on story telling. The games can still be mostly medieval settings like wizardry and star ocean.
Wasteland franchise could easily do aliens introducing laser swords yet still having revolvers and drunk hobos with their fists be on a equal footing because its science FICTION and not autism hard science where everything needs a logical explanation.
Wasteland franchise could easily do aliens introducing laser swords yet still having revolvers and drunk hobos with their fists be on a equal footing because its science FICTION and not autism hard science where everything needs a logical explanation.
Louis_Cypher
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There is nothing wrong with treating science fiction like hard science, or at least 95% justifying your setting with some science like Star Trek, Babylon 5 or Mass Effect. I think I speak for a lot of people in this thread in saying that we do not need more fantasy hybrids when we already have enough pure fantasy. Can we have some actual space fiction, rather than spaceships lazily combined with knights on horseback medievalism. Seriously, there are like a million Japanese franchises where you have "castles and jousting" combined with space, as well as some classical western games. That they exist is fine. That there is hardly any real space opera, is not fine. Even a little effort thinking about the Darwinian origins of monsters, or the cultural evolution of an alien society, would make them more interesting by far.
Pluto and it's moon Charon, orbit around a common barycenter. They are tidally locked. Charon is always above the same region of Pluto. The picture above shows a proposed space elevator linking the two bodies. You could actually build that structure, in real life. There is no physical law acting as barrier to doing so in reality one day. Science fiction allows wonders and terrors to be created... which could actually plausibly happen. Fantasy will never happen. Yes, it does demand a high school level of literacy about the natural world. So it should. If you look at polls conducted on tangential topics such as men's favorite movies, it's pretty evident that fantasy is not actually more popular than science fiction, in fact, many movies that people enjoy are science fiction without the audience perhaps even being fully cogent that they are watching a quite solid science fiction concept, i.e. 'Predator' (1987). The earliest RPGs contained a suprising number of space RPGs, and we have already established that there is no barrier to them existing, other than outdated perceptions, and lack of imagination.
Pluto and it's moon Charon, orbit around a common barycenter. They are tidally locked. Charon is always above the same region of Pluto. The picture above shows a proposed space elevator linking the two bodies. You could actually build that structure, in real life. There is no physical law acting as barrier to doing so in reality one day. Science fiction allows wonders and terrors to be created... which could actually plausibly happen. Fantasy will never happen. Yes, it does demand a high school level of literacy about the natural world. So it should. If you look at polls conducted on tangential topics such as men's favorite movies, it's pretty evident that fantasy is not actually more popular than science fiction, in fact, many movies that people enjoy are science fiction without the audience perhaps even being fully cogent that they are watching a quite solid science fiction concept, i.e. 'Predator' (1987). The earliest RPGs contained a suprising number of space RPGs, and we have already established that there is no barrier to them existing, other than outdated perceptions, and lack of imagination.
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Kerbal Space Program. Because kerbal don't real. Children of a Dead Earth doesn't count because it's science reality.
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Titan Outpost.
Cael
Arcane
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Try Planet's Edge without a cluebook.
Yeah, I did it back in the day, just as I did Magic Candle. But, woo-boy, you try finding New Elements without a cluebook :D
Rinslin Merwind
Erudite
Until one day, when in process of some experiment it turns out - that previous calculations wasn't correct with 100% (or at least with acceptable measurement error) and Charon and Pluto have very unstable orbit, moreover it absolutely possible that new "law" will be introduced/old gravitational law enhanced and in result building this orbital lift would be impossible, because of some constant. Also, lol, Mass Effect as setting 95% based on science , while majority of aliens somehow can breath the same air as humans without, jelly fish aliens can float in conditions of Earth gravity, species can interbreed with resulting of healthy baby? It's not 5% fantasy, it's all fantasy.There is nothing wrong with treating science fiction like hard science, or at least 95% justifying your setting with some science like Star Trek, Babylon 5 or Mass Effect. I think I speak for a lot of people in this thread in saying that we do not need more fantasy hybrids when we already have enough pure fantasy. Can we have some actual space fiction, rather than spaceships lazily combined with knights on horseback medievalism. Seriously, there are like a million Japanese franchises where you have "castles and jousting" combined with space, as well as some classical western games. That they exist is fine. That there is hardly any real space opera, is not fine. Even a little effort thinking about the Darwinian origins of monsters, or the cultural evolution of an alien society, would make them more interesting by far.
Pluto and it's moon Charon, orbit around a common barycenter. They are tidally locked. Charon is always above the same region of Pluto. The picture above shows a proposed space elevator linking the two bodies. You could actually build that structure, in real life. There is no physical law acting as barrier to doing so in reality one day. Science fiction allows wonders and terrors to be created... which could actually plausibly happen. Fantasy will never happen. Yes, it does demand a high school level of literacy about the natural world. So it should. If you look at polls conducted on tangential topics such as men's favorite movies, it's pretty evident that fantasy is not actually more popular than science fiction, in fact, many movies that people enjoy are science fiction without the audience perhaps even being fully cogent that they are watching a quite solid science fiction concept, i.e. 'Predator' (1987). The earliest RPGs contained a suprising number of space RPGs, and we have already established that there is no barrier to them existing, other than outdated perceptions, and lack of imagination.
Game that 100% based on science will be game about several billions retards, who stuck on piece of rock (with some water) that orbiting around sun and barely knows anything about their own world, let alone other planets. Because this is science knows for a fact, other shit like: alien life on another planet, elevators between space objects - are theories at best and theory is essentially a fantasy based on empiric observations on our planet.
I would like more science fiction games (especially RPG), it's true. But whoever would create such game can risk to make game less fun in result of his "true2science(TM)" pursuit and I doubt that would be a good thing. And btw, "space opera" contains as much science as fantasy, in majority cases scientific reasons behind anything that happens on screen is either unrevealed or questionable.
Louis_Cypher
Arcane
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These arguments are typical, you hear them for example from people who argue that Star Trek is 'fantasy', when it's clearly medium-hard sci-fi.
So let's examine them. Mass Effect has 99% of physical laws in common with the natural universe, rounding to the nearest whole percentage. A bullet shoots like a bullet. Gravity works the same way. It has one speculative technology that is unlikely, and one speculative technology that is probably impossible. They are: 1). FTL that alters the physical mass of an object, allowing it to accelerate with less force. 2). A fictional magic-like system of telekenesis, which is justified as much as it can be, by loose talk surrounding dark matter.
1). FTL
As far as fictional FTL systems go, probably the three most common ways of getting around general relativity so that we can tell stories in reasonable timespans are: 1). Star Trek style warp drive (the bending of space time has long been speculated as a way of cheating the speed of light; NASA has researched the concept, and we even have a theoretical method in the "Alcubierrre drive"). 2). Star Wars style hyperdrive (the idea of skipping out of our universe's laws of motion into another briefly, might be implausible, but it's a popular way around the speed of light for writers). 3). Stargate style wormholes (Einstein-Rosen bridges may well exist, although whether you could just walk through one is another matter, but again a popular way of getting around the speed of light). Mass Effect at least used a novel twist to achieve FTL, which was bringing mass down, allowing the vessel to essentially have negative mass, and cheat the conversion of mass into energy as it approached the speed of light. It may not be possible, but it's as good a writer's trick as any, for the sake of an interesting setting.
2). Telepathy/Telekinesis
First, look at context: Lots of science fiction includes telepathy or telekinesis, to name a few: Star Trek, Babylon 5, Alfred Bester, Philip K Dick, Theodore Stergeon. Telepathy was common in Golden Age science fiction. People speculated that one day, someone might discover some natural medium of ESP, like a form of EM radiation or whatever. We now find that highly unlikely, but occasionally relegate this concept to an alien species to make it more palatable. So the precedent of taking an unlikely natural occurrence and putting it in a science fiction is well established. Mass Effect wanted a magic system similar to The Force in Star Wars, but wanted to integrate it into a mostly naturalistic setting as much as possible, with the minimum amount of disruption. So they made their magic system manipulate mass. Hardly a big imposition, so it shows considerable bias to object to it in the case of Mass Effect, when half of Golden Age science fiction, as well as many of the finest TV shows made this small concession too.
So, I fully stand by that 95%.
P.S. Unlike Star Trek and possibly Star Wars (depending on whether Twi'leks are 'near-humans'), aliens cannot breed with other species in Mass Effect, it shows how little you paid attention to the setting; Asari produce offspring asexually, after telepathic contact with a mate. And the Hanar do not naturally 'float in air', they wear a Mass Effect field harness when outside water. As for breathing oxygen, not only is that perfectly fine biochemistry, usually just a practical way of preventing fiction from needing too many airlock scenes, but Mass Effect even included an entire major species which does not breath oxygen, the Volus. Not to mention they even made reference to the famous dextro-amino acids vs. levo-amino acid biochemistry.
In all honesty, so far, the answer to that question is Mass Effect 1, for an RPG.
Outside RPGs, plenty of hard stuff however, such as Elite: Dangerous.
So let's examine them. Mass Effect has 99% of physical laws in common with the natural universe, rounding to the nearest whole percentage. A bullet shoots like a bullet. Gravity works the same way. It has one speculative technology that is unlikely, and one speculative technology that is probably impossible. They are: 1). FTL that alters the physical mass of an object, allowing it to accelerate with less force. 2). A fictional magic-like system of telekenesis, which is justified as much as it can be, by loose talk surrounding dark matter.
1). FTL
As far as fictional FTL systems go, probably the three most common ways of getting around general relativity so that we can tell stories in reasonable timespans are: 1). Star Trek style warp drive (the bending of space time has long been speculated as a way of cheating the speed of light; NASA has researched the concept, and we even have a theoretical method in the "Alcubierrre drive"). 2). Star Wars style hyperdrive (the idea of skipping out of our universe's laws of motion into another briefly, might be implausible, but it's a popular way around the speed of light for writers). 3). Stargate style wormholes (Einstein-Rosen bridges may well exist, although whether you could just walk through one is another matter, but again a popular way of getting around the speed of light). Mass Effect at least used a novel twist to achieve FTL, which was bringing mass down, allowing the vessel to essentially have negative mass, and cheat the conversion of mass into energy as it approached the speed of light. It may not be possible, but it's as good a writer's trick as any, for the sake of an interesting setting.
2). Telepathy/Telekinesis
First, look at context: Lots of science fiction includes telepathy or telekinesis, to name a few: Star Trek, Babylon 5, Alfred Bester, Philip K Dick, Theodore Stergeon. Telepathy was common in Golden Age science fiction. People speculated that one day, someone might discover some natural medium of ESP, like a form of EM radiation or whatever. We now find that highly unlikely, but occasionally relegate this concept to an alien species to make it more palatable. So the precedent of taking an unlikely natural occurrence and putting it in a science fiction is well established. Mass Effect wanted a magic system similar to The Force in Star Wars, but wanted to integrate it into a mostly naturalistic setting as much as possible, with the minimum amount of disruption. So they made their magic system manipulate mass. Hardly a big imposition, so it shows considerable bias to object to it in the case of Mass Effect, when half of Golden Age science fiction, as well as many of the finest TV shows made this small concession too.
So, I fully stand by that 95%.
P.S. Unlike Star Trek and possibly Star Wars (depending on whether Twi'leks are 'near-humans'), aliens cannot breed with other species in Mass Effect, it shows how little you paid attention to the setting; Asari produce offspring asexually, after telepathic contact with a mate. And the Hanar do not naturally 'float in air', they wear a Mass Effect field harness when outside water. As for breathing oxygen, not only is that perfectly fine biochemistry, usually just a practical way of preventing fiction from needing too many airlock scenes, but Mass Effect even included an entire major species which does not breath oxygen, the Volus. Not to mention they even made reference to the famous dextro-amino acids vs. levo-amino acid biochemistry.
In all honesty, so far, the answer to that question is Mass Effect 1, for an RPG.
Outside RPGs, plenty of hard stuff however, such as Elite: Dangerous.
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Beowulf
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I think Warhead, grand daddy of these games, is a worth a mention too.
edit.
If I remember correctly Warhead had some kind FTL jump system like I-War series had.
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Beowulf
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I think it depends on the exact sub-genres. However, sci-fi imagines the human condition transformed by things like deep space travel and industrial plantations of robot slaves, while fantasy imagines humans in a mythic past full of glory, friendship, and adventure.
The first is kind of off putting and difficult to relate to because the world feels so immense and uncanny; ostensibly human characters are basically aliens because the world has changed so much from what modern people are familiar with.
The second makes us feel more like ourselves than real life does, as almost by definition fantasy is the sole place humans can effortlessly be what they want to be.
Everyone wants to explore Middle Earth as a great hero and make powerful alliances as the leading power broker in Westeros (politicking for the glory of your House). Nobody wants to be a helpless colonist on dystopian journey to a star that is millennia away, eking out a miserable existence on a cramped submarine inching its way slowly across the infinite chasm of the cosmos.
Now, throw in some Space Operatic fantasy elements like hyperdrive, and you got yourself a winning concept.
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I do.
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