Elder Scrolls Why Morrowind is a bad RPG

[Lord of Riva]

Daggerfall is way better than morrowind, at least it does not pretend to be anything other than a sandbox.

Could be if it had more actual content rather than being 99% randomly generated stuff that repeats very quickly.

Well, it doesn't really present itself as anything else.

 

[NecroLord]

Daggerfall is also a legit dungeon crawler.
Some of the dungeons in the game are absolutely gargantuan in size.
Modern day gaymers would probably cry like little girls while getting stuck in these dungeons.
Morrowind went the easy way with its dungeons, since it is primarily an outdoors game.

 

[lycanwarrior]

Any of the sequels post Daggerfall don't have quite the "magic" IMHO. Not to mention they got progressively "dumbed down" with each subsequent sequel.

 

[Zlaja]

 

[Sarathiour]

It's funny, but it's the fifth time I see this posted on the dex.

 

[Zlaja]

It's funny, but it's the fifth time I see this posted on the dex.

Well, fuck! How about this?

 

[Zlaja]

This is now a Dagoth Ur thread (make sure the subtitles are turned on for this one):

 

[NecroLord]

 

[luj1]

Daggerfall is also a legit dungeon crawler.
Some of the dungeons in the game are absolutely gargantuan in size.
Modern day gaymers would probably cry like little girls while getting stuck in these dungeons.
Morrowind went the easy way with its dungeons, since it is primarily an outdoors game.

You could be stuck in a dungeon for months lol

 

[KnightoftheWind]

As a gentleman who recently immersed himself in Morrowind via OpenMW, I have to say that I see both sides of the argument here. I can see why some adore the game, because it's world is very consistent and feels lived-in despite the static NPCs and repeated dialogue. There are numerous factions and landmarks that appear distinct from one another, and if you wanted to immerse yourself in the lore you absolutely could and are rewarded for it. There are numerous quests you can partake in, and the sense of discovery is loads of fun. The feeling of exploration feels more absent in later games due to the inclusion of fast travel IMO. But on the flipside, the actual gameplay leaves a lot to be desired. Combat is unsatisfying and requires little thought, just up the stats on a particular weapon and hammer away. Any strategy involves the use of magical items and abilities, but you risk breaking the game given how powerful some of them are. The fatigue system is also a nuisance, and given how abysmal the walking speed is you'd think the devs would know better and allow you to sprint indefinitely. I suppose not.

And despite the pleasure that is the act of exploration, I found the environment overall to be vile and filled with disgusting creatures. Morrowind is an unpleasant shithole, and I wonder how any NPC could live there, even the Dunmer. I'd almost classify Morrowind as a dark fantasy title, and despite how supposedly "fresh" the game is when compared to Oblivion and Skyrim, I feel the opposite is true. Morrowind hasn't aged particularly well and I don't mean because of the graphics, I liked the graphics and found them to be more than adequate, but because of how other "subversive" fantasy titles took what Morrowind tried to do and did it far better. There are now more edgy, subversive fantasy games than genuine ones like Oblivion. People scoff at the bright, "generic" fantasy of Daggerfall and later games but I find them to be refreshing and timeless. Morrowind is only enjoyable for those who like downbeat and gloomy storylines, who are willing to tolerate the environment and find the experience interesting enough to ignore the subpar gameplay. There are better RPGs, and I count Oblivion and Skyrim among them. Say what you will about how they simplified things, but I feel the simplification was a good thing. It allowed the experience of Elder Scrolls to come to the forefront, once all the superfluous mechanics and redundancies were removed.

 

[Butter]

Yeah, things like levitation, teleportation, spellmaking, and attributes were all superfluous. I'm glad Skyrim has fewer things to play with.

 

[KnightoftheWind]

Yeah, things like levitation, teleportation, spellmaking, and attributes were all superfluous. I'm glad Skyrim has fewer things to play with.

I suppose those things could be added back in for the next game, if they haven't been already through modding. I wouldn't say any of those things make Morrowind "the best" given the rest of it's shortcomings.

 

[NecroLord]

Yeah, things like levitation, teleportation, spellmaking, and attributes were all superfluous. I'm glad Skyrim has fewer things to play with.

Yeah.
Skyrim. The pinnacle of RPG design.
Daggerfall? Morrowind? Nah, bro, Skyrim is where it's at.

 

[dreughjiggers]

Morrowind's most glaring flaw is the WEAK third act, or after taking Moon and Star. The stage is set for our Hortator to prove himself, but the quests are predestined. We're the only agency in a single-player game, but if BGS had done their job right, that part of the story should have put a lot of responsibility on the players. All the necessary lore and characters had been introduced, for us to get an idea how our Nerevarine could go about bringing the Great Houses together (rogue telvanni, cammona tong, Caldera feud, temple devout...) by deals or by duels, just like the Hortator is supposed to. Instead, we're cut loose... only to be fenced into doing those stupid quests, and by the only ways the devs allowed. Some randomness, some choices and consequences, would have done the thing justice.

 

[MWaser]

Morrowind's most glaring flaw is the WEAK third act, or after taking Moon and Star. The stage is set for our Hortator to prove himself, but the quests are predestined. We're the only agency in a single-player game, but if BGS had done their job right, that part of the story should have put a lot of responsibility on the players. All the necessary lore and characters had been introduced, for us to get an idea how our Nerevarine could go about bringing the Great Houses together (rogue telvanni, cammona tong, Caldera feud, temple devout...) by deals or by duels, just like the Hortator is supposed to. Instead, we're cut loose... only to be fenced into doing those stupid quests, and by the only ways the devs allowed. Some randomness, some choices and consequences, would have done the thing justice.

maybe not so much randomness, but variety would have done it a lot of favor. In a way you could see it's rushed at that point.

If it was a combination of your abilities/fame + convincing people it would have been more satisfying, but the way it's just simple questlines is certainly disappointing. Especially since the Hortator questlines are also surprisingly incredibly short, generally involving just 1 minor quest and talking to a lot of people (and almost always killing some asshole). They definitely feel underbaked.

 

[dreughjiggers]

There's a mod (may allah forgive me) that promises to give Hortator something to do, but that isn't addressing the problem.

 

[MWaser]

There's a mod (may allah forgive me) that promises to give Hortator something to do, but that isn't addressing the problem.

You've got to love how the first screenshot hits us with displaying the nonsense of the guy making the screenshot with his level 61 maxed out character wearing 4 rings (???) before hitting us with very important Hortator duties like "deal with hostile mudcrabs" in the 2nd screenshot.

It just goes to show that modders clearly have no idea what they're doing and they're just implementing really random ideas in the game, no matter how stupid they are when you stop to consider them.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

If you want to understand what are the good aspects of Morrowind, you don't have to play Morrowind. You have to play Oblivion.

I was too profound: what I meant was that you realize what are the good things when they remove them from you.

 

[ind33d]

There is a reason why Morrowind is a cult classic for a specific generation, and IMHO lies in a completely different category of cult classics than, let's say, Planescape: Torment and aforementioned New Vegas. Younger you are better and more flexible your imagination is, and Morrowind is almost the best game that's out there for impregnating your imagination. Setting is only thing that is legitimately a masterpiece in this product, and a lot of it depends on player reading these fucking books and reading these Almsivi-damned Wikipedia dialogues. Morrowind captured dozens with it’s world and imagination replaced, in memory, what sucked - that it almost everything else. There are some good characters (most of them transcended into memes years ago), there is a very strong backstory (not main plot, this one is shit, it’s only as good as player’s understanding of what happened at the Red Mountain), aesthetics are very strong (part of the setting IMHO), but rest? Jesus. Mechanics are completely broken and game goes fucking bonkers really easily, AI is shit, whole game design is fucking awful (OP highlights it well). The list goes on and on.

You can easily LARP in game and pretend that it's a good one, but that's only your aforementioned imagination doing it's magic.

As games became more accessible, they become less immersive. Jank, labyrinthine menus, walking hundreds of miles to accomplish one quest only to find out you went the wrong way—these are challenging and unfun, just like real life. When you ultimately do succeed, you feel a sense of accomplishment. Even Mass Effect 1 punished you for running into combat alone without issuing commands to your squadmates. Compare that to a game like Cyberpunk 2077, where even on hard you will have 300 vapes in your inventory at all times that instantly restore 60% of your entire healthbar.

Games aren't supposed to be fun: they're supposed to be interesting. Morrowind is interesting. Death Stranding is interesting. I don't think DS or Morrowind can be considered "fun" by any stretch of the imagination, but the experience of finding your own way in a bleak new world sticks with you. The point of an RPG is that the player is insignificant compared to his environment. Player vs. Environment has been dropped from new titles completely, aside from some weird stuff like Fallout 4 on Survival and solo Minecraft.

Minecraft with the right mods is the closest thing there is to a sequel to Daggerfall, ironically enough.

 

[monilloman]

Minecraft with the right mods is the closest thing there is to a sequel to Daggerfall, ironically enough.

Im playing Barony with the quality-of-death beta and it's scratching my Daggerfall itch big time, specially since they copied most of elder scroll systems, like 1-100 skill levelling, multiple skills to distinguish from each class, etc. Definitely recommended for anyone looking for some dungeon crawling.



PD: the game even features a Lusty Goblin Maid book

 

[Broseph]

I’ve just finished Tribunal for the first time and I’m going through Bloodmoon now. Reading some posts people have made here in the past make me feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Like, all these complaints about the long tedious dungeon crawling in Tribunal and insane HP bloated enemies. It’s a skill issue. These are meant to be done by endgame level characters, you should already have insanely good stats/equipment/spells enchantments by the time you start these. Obviously if you attempt it at lower levels you’re gonna have a bad time. With a level 40 character and Sunder as my main weapon most of the enemies go down in a few clicks. Once I acquired the Mace of Aevar Stone-Singer werewolves literally died in two hits.

From a content standpoint it’s true that the base game is a far superior experience, but Tribunal and Bloodmoon aren’t total trash. I would rather go through the Mournhold sewers fighting goblin hordes than ever touch Oblivion again, that’s for sure.

 

[NecroLord]

I’ve just finished Tribunal for the first time and I’m going through Bloodmoon now. Reading some posts people have made here in the past make me feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Like, all these complaints about the long tedious dungeon crawling in Tribunal and insane HP bloated enemies. It’s a skill issue. These are meant to be done by endgame level characters, you should already have insanely good stats/equipment/spells enchantments by the time you start these. Obviously if you attempt it at lower levels you’re gonna have a bad time. With a level 40 character and Sunder as my main weapon most of the enemies go down in a few clicks. Once I acquired the Mace of Aevar Stone-Singer werewolves literally died in two hits.

From a content standpoint it’s true that the base game is a far superior experience, but Tribunal and Bloodmoon aren’t total trash. I would rather go through the Mournhold sewers fighting goblin hordes than ever touch Oblivion again, that’s for sure.

Bloodmoon is really great.
Really like the atmosphere and environment of Solstheim. You can even get your own house in Raven Rock if you complete all the East Empire Company quests.

 

[Kalon]

The atmosphere and environment are pretty much the only good things about the Bloodmoon expansion. Everything else sucks. Main quest is stupid; dungeons are all the same and filled with über-loot that is there just because it's aimed at high-level characters; enemies mobs are scattrered here and there with no rhyme or reason; in short, the world-building sucks.

 

[Justicar]

Elder scrolls were always for murican trannies.

 

[Broseph]