In all seriousness, everything else in this thread aside, I do think "when Xbox made traditionally PC genres a console thing too" is the clear answer.
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Decline When did decline start to you?
- Thread starter oddech_wymarlych_swiatow
- Start date
In all seriousness, everything else in this thread aside, I do think "when Xbox made traditionally PC genres a console thing too" is the clear answer.
Dedicated_Dark
Prophet
I think Jade Empire was the beginning for Bioware.
DJOGamer PT
Arcane
It was only around 2015 that we again started to see a healthy amount of incline. The PS3/Xbox 360 was garbage and it's responsible for the decline that persists to this day, but that decline has it's roots in the PS2/Xbox.
Disagree. Even to this day SM64 movement is amazing.
What dip in quality? 3D figthers are awesome, it introduced an additional layer of depth to them. It's been nearly 20 years and Soul Calibur 2 is still one of the best figthing games ever made.
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Flat/wide/LCD/plasma/LED screens.
I generally agree with this, but to clarify, more so when traditionally PC games began to develop either for consoles as the primary focus or as an equal focus as opposed to when PC games were ported to consoles which happened far earlier in the console cycles (e.g. Wizardry on the NES and SNES). This console focus brought us more dumbed down difficulties, console UIs, etc. on the PC.
The reason I think Outlander's post is retarded is that it literally goes back to the first consoles in the 70s. They were never about only platformers and sports games.
rusty_shackleford
Arcane
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If you only play good games then you never experience decline.
Oh, there were some games on an obscure, mid-70s console that were not platformers or sports games... Missed the point entirely, which in hindsight did need further clarification to prevent autismo-like counter arguments like ''but a console from 1976 had games outside the genres you listed!!''
So the point is that the vast majority, the bulk if you will, of the games released on the most successful and popular consoles up until they started to try to emulate classic PC games were in the genres of platforming, sports, puzzles, beat'em ups, side scroller shooters, etc, and they were damn good at it.
Meh, although I agree with your second sentence, I only linked the Fairchild to show how far back it went. Really, the Atari 2600 isn't obscure and virtually its entirely line up weren't the types of games you originally described. Same with Intellivision, Collecovision, etc. So really, I'm saying, every single console that has ever been released had games besides platformers and sports games. Hell, PC ports go back to at least the NES.
Zer0wing
Cipher
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Xbox 360 has started it all. Before that, game development was hard and complex endeavour, and the market was completely separated. I.E. gatekeeped from morons and the suits holding the silver money cases. Microsoft created a platform that was easy to develop games for and invested into marketing to make sure the game market is huge enough for Xbox 360 to be profitable for game developers first.
rusty_shackleford
Arcane
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as if every video game console hasn't been flooded with shitty games
Zer0wing
Cipher
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As if playstation, pc and nintendo fanbase crossed....
HansDampf
Arcane
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- 1,547
I was responding to OP.
Machocruz
Arcane
Deus Ex: Invisible War and Thief 3, although I didn't know it at the time. Not enough data to see a trend forming. I chalked up DX2 to being just one of those inferior sequels that happens, and I had no previous experience with Thief so Deadly Shadows seemed breddy gud. Oblivion and Bioshock the next gen secured it for me when the level of praise from most corners was not in line with the actual content, ESPECIALLY in the former. Along with the growing practice of acting like previous games in the same series or of the same design legacy didn't exist or were inferior, which includes titling a new entry in a franchise without a number, as if to erase the previous, usually harder/more complex games, something that persists to this day . And the media and fanboys mentally bending over backwards to massage dumbing down "streamlining" into a positive. "We dumb down series" was pretty much the tagline for that entire generation in the west, it was so pervasive.
Next to the 80s crash, this was the darkest era of video games in my lifetime. There was a small spark of incline during that time though. For a brief moment, the demon of decline was destroyed...
Next to the 80s crash, this was the darkest era of video games in my lifetime. There was a small spark of incline during that time though. For a brief moment, the demon of decline was destroyed...
Silva
Arcane
The Decline is an illusion. The mid to late 2000s was indeed the worst era for videogames due to industry massification, but it recovered in the 2010s with the indie and KS booms.
Problem being, most dexers are old limp grognards who live in the past and for whom everything that came later is automatically shit. The analog to old faggot film critics who think Gone with the Wind is the best film ever or those neckbeard tabletop RPG players who think nothing good ever came after basic D&D.
Problem being, most dexers are old limp grognards who live in the past and for whom everything that came later is automatically shit. The analog to old faggot film critics who think Gone with the Wind is the best film ever or those neckbeard tabletop RPG players who think nothing good ever came after basic D&D.
Fair point. Even stuff like Diablo and Quake 2 were ported to consoles, they just weren't designed for them. I'd also add that in many cases I don't think it's just about console gamers/technology in general, but also that many in the mainstream were being introduced to stuff like Western RPGs for the first time, and thus the games were designed to be super accessible for them.
Falksi
Arcane
Games who's foundation were simplicity & ease of access, suddenly became bogged down by what was initially required to fit into a 3-D realm.
Post transition we now have a number of genres that do work well in 3-D, but it also hurt certain genres which are now returning to their roots such as isometric CRPGs, platform based games & 1-on-1 fighters.
But initially they basically took all the shit-hot things which they'd spent years mastering, and flushed them down the shitter for "better" graphics. Folk may see some great 3-D games now, & certain genres like FPS games have benefited for them loads, but the era itself was largely decline as we sat through years of folk both getting to grips with the technology, and trying to convert genres to 3-D that are way better in 2-D anyway.
Falksi
Arcane
It was only around 2015 that we again started to see a healthy amount of incline. The PS3/Xbox 360 was garbage and it's responsible for the decline that persists to this day, but that decline has it's roots in the PS2/Xbox.
Disagree. Even to this day SM64 movement is amazing.
What dip in quality? 3D figthers are awesome, it introduced an additional layer of depth to them. It's been nearly 20 years and Soul Calibur 2 is still one of the best figthing games ever made.
Like I said, that's a personal account of it and I jumped onboard the 360 when it'd been out 4 years, and I could cherry pick it's best games at great prices.
SM64 is shite. Movement may be good, but it's nowhere near as fast-paced or simplistically fun as Super Mario World. It's slow paced as hell, and that's because of the 3-D environment.
Virtual Fighter, Tekken etc. it took years for them to get the formula down. In which time 2-D fighters got neglected. Hell the side scrolling Beat 'Em Up genre is virtually died since 3-D, and is only just returning in recent years.
Wyatt_Derp
Arcane
When I would bring home game discs, eager to install, only to find a Steam code inside.
It'd be like going down for some hot pussy only to see a list of demands written on the panties.
It'd be like going down for some hot pussy only to see a list of demands written on the panties.
DJOGamer PT
Arcane
Nonsense.
Again the movement is very good and precise (spetacular feat considering it was the first ever 3D platformer), and the level is also well designed with some diverse set of challenges.
So by all objective standards it's a good platformer.
As for not being fast paced, I also have to disagree:
And in this video the guy ain't using any of thecniques people use for the insane speedruns you can pull of in this game.
Got neglected shit.
2D arcade figthers dominated the genre for entirity of the 90's. So much so that EVO, up until 2003, only allowed 2D figthing games.
It was only by the end of the decade with Tekken 3 and Soul Calibur 1 releases, that 3D really started to have any traction. SNK's decline only started around 2001.
And again Soul Calibur 2 is still one the best figthing games ever released and it came out in 2002.
Falksi
Arcane
You've not taken my point into context with regards the simplicity & ease to pick up as mentioned. From the off it's sluggish as you have to really get to know your whereabouts with the 3-D environments.
This is a better representation of how ponderous it is........
Watching a speed-run of someone who knows it back to front isn't a proper representation of what most people will experience.
Regards beat 'em ups, you're agreeing with me. 3-D killed off the side scrolling Beat 'Em Up. A great genre now making a mini revival in 2-D. As for 1-on-1's they did eventually better the formula, but like I said the initial 3'D introduction still bought decline on it.
Which CRPGs are better for 3-D? Fallout?
DJOGamer PT
Arcane
The game is super easy to pick. Sure not as easy as 2D mario game would be, but that's only expected given the additional layer of depth given by the new perspective. But still the simple controls and top-notch movement ensure that anyone can pick that game up and immediately know the all the fundamentals. This is proven by the fact that the only "tutorial" you ever get is about 3 small hints in the starting area of the game and that's enough to know the fundamentals decently even before entering the castle.
As for the game "seeming" sluggish, that's the mark of a bad player. Since, like I already showed you, a good player can perform some great stunts and complete any level with immense speed and precision. All because the gameplay mechanics are that good to allow such a difference between skill.
Side Scrollers were always arcade stuff. That's why they died, not because of 3D but simply because arcade's were killed in late 90's by the home console (outside of japan that is). This is because consoles allowed for "meatier" game experiences that the arcades couldn't provide.
Platformers were the only ones to survive because of the popularity and success they found on consoles.
It didn't.
Again when 3D was intoduced to the genre, 2D dominated it and kept dominating until 3D had been perfected in the early 2000's.
In fact even to this day 2D figthing games are the most successful in the genre.
The only noteworthy 3D figthers are Tekken, Soul Calibur and Dead or Alive.
You mean what 3D RPG's are better than the 2D ones, or which cRPG's series improved for transitioning to 3D?
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samuraigaiden
Arcane
Sidescrolling Beat Em Ups was always a garbage genre. No real gameplay, just button mashing.
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