What PC Controller Isn't Shit These Days?

[Azdul]

just ordered one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B9BDMWWN/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

From my experience (retro perspective):

8bitdo does not work with MiST FPGA. Logitech Precision, Logitech F310, Logitech Dual Action, Speedlink Competition Pro are correctly recognized - some as at least 'Generic USB stick' - but not 8bitdo one.

8bitdo has it's own application to tune controller and update its firmware - but does not provide detailed usage manual in the box - nor anywhere on their web page. Switching between Xinput and DirectInput requires some magic combinations of buttons during firmware initialization after connecting the USB - instead of simple physical switch like Logitech. 8bitdo application does not offer such option either.

Luckily I've bought Xbox 360 style one (Ultimate Wired Controller) - not 8bitdo Arcade Stick or M30 (Sega Genesis/Megadrive clone) - so I'll find a use for it in modern games on Windows 11.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Because I'm using the 8BitDo M30 on both the computer and phone and it's too tedious to sync again when switching to the other, I tried instead to continue A Link to the Past with my modern style analog stick controller (8BitDo Ultimate). It was awful. Really difficult to navigate. I have no idea why modern D-pads are so small and no longer have that lovely Mega Drive circle that makes it so much easier to switch from latitude to longitude. Don't tell me that it's because the D-pad is now used mostly to select items and move between menus, because plenty of 2D platformers and action games are still released. There's plenty of room on most controllers too. I probably should have used the Retro Fighters Defender, since it has a bigger D-pad that is aligned with the face buttons, but the M30 is still better for those very old games because of the placement of the face buttons, the sizes of A, B and C, and that circle between the directions.

A bit late on this but it's not necessary to manually resync (I mean full Android unpairing/pairing) the M30 for different devices, you just have to power on the controller holding a different button (i.e. X for xinput, Y for Switch, B for Android). I use mine for the Switch and the PC and it's seamless.

 

[Ezekiel]

Because I'm using the 8BitDo M30 on both the computer and phone and it's too tedious to sync again when switching to the other, I tried instead to continue A Link to the Past with my modern style analog stick controller (8BitDo Ultimate). It was awful. Really difficult to navigate. I have no idea why modern D-pads are so small and no longer have that lovely Mega Drive circle that makes it so much easier to switch from latitude to longitude. Don't tell me that it's because the D-pad is now used mostly to select items and move between menus, because plenty of 2D platformers and action games are still released. There's plenty of room on most controllers too. I probably should have used the Retro Fighters Defender, since it has a bigger D-pad that is aligned with the face buttons, but the M30 is still better for those very old games because of the placement of the face buttons, the sizes of A, B and C, and that circle between the directions.

A bit late on this but it's not necessary to manually resync (I mean full Android unpairing/pairing) the M30 for different devices, you just have to power on the controller holding a different button (i.e. X for xinput, Y for Switch, B for Android). I use mine for the Switch and the PC and it's seamless.

Then what's Start for? The manual says, "Press Start to turn on the controller," so that's how I've always connected to the computer and phone after synching. I wonder if Start reconnects to the last paired device. Anyway, have it connected to the PC, phone and Switch now. Thanks.

 

[Great Deceiver]

You press Start together with the aforementioned buttons to quickly sync it to that type of device (e.g. Start + X for Switch). At least that's how I do it.

 

[Ezekiel]

I mean Start by itself. Whatever, I just won't connect that way anymore.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Here
s wheres its at

The Arcade by Suzo was the best joystick made for Atari-connector.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arcade_(joystick)

But which one?

• The Arcade Classic, without a fire button[citation needed]
• The Arcade, with just one fire button (at the front centre of the base)
• The Arcade Turbo, with two fire buttons (one on the base and one on the top of the stick, and a switch underneath the base to select button A/B)
• Prof Competition, with two fire buttons (one each on the front corners of the base)
• Prof Competition 9000, with three fire buttons (one each on the front corners of the base; one on top of the stick)
• Prof Competition 9000 de luxe, with three fire buttons (one each on the front corners of the base; one on top of the stick; and an adjustable rapid-fire switch)

Good fucking luck finding one. What is an excellent alternative?

 

[Jarpie]

Here
s wheres its at

The Arcade by Suzo was the best joystick made for Atari-connector.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arcade_(joystick)

But which one?

• The Arcade Classic, without a fire button[citation needed]
• The Arcade, with just one fire button (at the front centre of the base)
• The Arcade Turbo, with two fire buttons (one on the base and one on the top of the stick, and a switch underneath the base to select button A/B)
• Prof Competition, with two fire buttons (one each on the front corners of the base)
• Prof Competition 9000, with three fire buttons (one each on the front corners of the base; one on top of the stick)
• Prof Competition 9000 de luxe, with three fire buttons (one each on the front corners of the base; one on top of the stick; and an adjustable rapid-fire switch)

Good fucking luck finding one. What is an excellent alternative?

Afaik all of those are basically the same joystick, just different configuration. The Arcade can be hard to find because of the name, but it is sometimes on sale in Ebay, although last time I checked, they weren't cheap, 50-70 eurobucks. If you're after "Atari-joysticks", the original Zip Stick is pretty good, same with Competition Pro, which is considered classic. I was never fan of Tac-2, but for some reason some people likes them.

 

[ferratilis]

I got another hall effect controller, the Gamesir G7 SE. It's a wired only model, but has a lot of customization options, anti friction rings, back paddles, and comes with a month of game pass ultimate. For 50 bucks, it's better than any first party controller you can get. If they can get around Microsoft dumbass licensing restrictions, they should add bluetooth, replaceable battery and possibly mechanical buttons. That would make this controller better than even the 8bitdo Ultimate. At this point, only idiots would waste money on first party controllers, with such affordable and good third party options.

 

[FreshCorpse]

Just to give another dimension to this because it seems like it's going round and round on analogue stick sensor tech: latency.

Some of these controllers have meaningful lag. That's particularly the case for some of the ones with crappy bluetooth chipsets.

This stuff has been measured, by nerds, using an Ardunio setup to electronically fire the switches on face buttons and then measuring how long for the input to come out the other end of a usb cable. A few of the results are quite bad.

Taking a typical case: the last gen MS xbox controller. It has a lag of 15.7ms over bluetooth. That's in a best case environment with minimal background noise, presumably keeping the radios quite close and not taking account of whatever extra lag is added by the windows bluetooth + xinput stack. Imagine the upstairs flat have their baby monitor on, spamming the same 2.4ghz spectrum bluetooth uses and so some inputs take a couple of retransmissions to transmit. Retransmissions are at best double the time, often much more, because you have to detect that it didn't arrive, and then resend. 100ms might be happening on some button presses. That's nearly 6 frames at 60hz.

Typically what happens in computer hardware is that as the device gets more complex it only gets slow. eg A SNES+CRT had nearly zero lag and some action games for the SNES are now really hard on modern LCD setups where the screen alone adds 20-50ms. This is why Retroarch are so keen on all that runahead stuff. But clearly Sony is still paying attention to latency: a usb-wired DS5 is actually slightly faster than the original playstation controller was. So I suppose if I wanted to get into Sekiro, I would be using that setup.

Some other little nuggets I found browsing the data: 8bitdo's controllers are generally ok. Their wireless adapter is shite. The PS4 wireless adapter is also shite. Microsoft's wireless adapter though is meaningfully better than bluetooth - 3 times lower latency. But switching from the proprietary MS wireless adapter to USB barely improves things: 6ms is reduced by just 0.1ms by wiring.

Data on gaming keyboard latency also turns out some surprises.

 

[I eat frozen vegetables]

I use a Series X controller for modern games and a Retro-Bit Saturn USB controller for Genesis and Saturn emulation. It feels great to play the first three Sonic games (I play the mobile decompilations and Angel Island Revisited) with the Saturn controller. I plan on using Dualshock 3 for PS2 and PS3 emulation (and possibly PS1, though I am not opposed to using a DualSense for it) and a Retro Fighter Brawler64 for N64 emulation (and decompilations of N64 games). Right now, I'm looking for a NES controller and SNES controller for my computer and I am a stickler for authenticity.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

So are cables out for most people?

 

[d1r]

Dual Sense 5. Actually, all Dual Shock controllers are great.

 

[SomeGuyWithAnOpinion]

Dual Sense 5. Actually, all Dual Shock controllers are great.

Yeah, but then you're giving Sony money

 

[ferratilis]

Dualsense is a weird product. Ergonomics are good, buttons feel nice, haptic feedback makes the usual vibration in controllers feel dated. In a game like Gran Turismo 7, you can actually feel the grip on the track if you choose to play on a controller. In Ghost of Tsushima, you can feel the katana being sheathed, it's hard to describe until you experience it. On the other hand, so much space is wasted on that stupid touchpad that maybe two games utilize, with a built-in microphone that only one PS5 game utilizes, it has lights that serve no other purpose than to drain the already tiny battery, and the start button is microscopically tiny. The adaptive triggers are a hindrance. While most of the controller feels premium, the sticks both look and feel like they're made of fucking gossamer. Either they develop stick drift in under a year, or if they don't, the caps will start to peel off because of how cheap the material is. But then when you look at PS5 itself, things start to make sense.

 

[Cologno]

Dual Sense 5. Actually, all Dual Shock controllers are great.

Yeah, but then you're giving Sony money

Well, duh, they're the ones making the controller. Unless you go 3rd party (good luck finding anything decent) or second-hand (and God knows where that dude's second hand has been). Your other option is to go negro in California or NYC and jack controllers from retailers before shoplifting thresholds kick in. Otherwise Sony's getting your money.

 

[FreshCorpse]

Dualsense is a weird product. Ergonomics are good, buttons feel nice, haptic feedback makes the usual vibration in controllers feel dated. In a game like Gran Turismo 7, you can actually feel the grip on the track if you choose to play on a controller. In Ghost of Tsushima, you can feel the katana being sheathed, it's hard to describe until you experience it. On the other hand, so much space is wasted on that stupid touchpad that maybe two games utilize, with a built-in microphone that only one PS5 game utilizes, it has lights that serve no other purpose than to drain the already tiny battery, and the start button is microscopically tiny. The adaptive triggers are a hindrance. While most of the controller feels premium, the sticks both look and feel like they're made of fucking gossamer. Either they develop stick drift in under a year, or if they don't, the caps will start to peel off because of how cheap the material is. But then when you look at PS5 itself, things start to make sense.

Agree on most of this but I actually quite like the triggers in GT7.

As for the battery - I think the only realistic way to own this controller is to have the charging station. If you play long sessions you will probably need to get two so you have swap them when they die. Battery life sees to be mainly driven by how much of the haptics you use. GT7 uses a lot.

So yeah, between build quality, battery life issues, latency, stick drift the current state of controllers is fucking dogshit.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

I still think the Sony DualShock 4 controller (wireless bluetooth version) is the single greatest controller I have ever owned. I still have my first one (black) purchased from Newegg about 15 years ago that still works fine (aside from maybe some slight drift in one of the sticks that only shows up in certain games), and, in fact, I received just today a red magma one from Sony that I just couldn't resist buying for $25 on sale last week; refurbished but feels like new. You never see authentic DS4s controllers for that price anymore, only the chink counterfeit chintz. I also have a gold DS4 still in its container that I only used once to test then put it back in the box. I do have a DualSense 5 but the DS4 is smaller and better for my hands while feeling just as solid. Every time I hold an Xbox One controller in my hands, I wince at the feel of the top buttons (though they do tend to last), and I went through about five Sony DS3 controllers in less than 2 years.

So bros, if you want the best for less, go with the DS4 if you use a PC with an Xbox 360 controller emu ie DS4Windows. Someday those DS4 controllers will be showcased in glass in a museum or in an underground citadel in an age of apes and mutants as an example of top quality construction the likes of which had never been seen before. Hell, it will probably be my actual Gold one that they'll put on a pedestal and form religions around and sing dark hymns to someday with a special guest appearance by Colonel Taylor in a nearby prison cell.

 

[Kefa]

I still think the Sony DualShock 4 controller (wireless bluetooth version) is the single greatest controller I have ever owned. I still have my first one (black) purchased from Newegg about 15 years ago that still works fine (aside from maybe some slight drift in one of the sticks that only shows up in certain games), and, in fact, I received just today a red magma one from Sony that I just couldn't resist buying for $25 on sale last week; refurbished but feels like new. You never see authentic DS4s controllers for that price anymore, only the chink counterfeit chintz. I also have a gold DS4 still in its container that I only used once to test then put it back in the box. I do have a DualSense 5 but the DS4 is smaller and better for my hands while feeling just as solid. Every time I hold an Xbox One controller in my hands, I wince at the feel of the top buttons (though they do tend to last), and I went through about five Sony DS3 controllers in less than 2 years.

So bros, if you want the best for less, go with the DS4 if you use a PC with an Xbox 360 controller emu ie DS4Windows. Someday those DS4 controllers will be showcased in glass in a museum or in an underground citadel in an age of apes and mutants as an example of top quality construction the likes of which had never been seen before. Hell, it will probably be my actual Gold one that they'll put on a pedestal and form religions around and sing dark hymns to someday with a special guest appearance by Colonel Taylor in a nearby prison cell.

There’s nothing the DS4 does better than the dual sense imo, and I find the latter more comfortable.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

I still think the Sony DualShock 4 controller (wireless bluetooth version) is the single greatest controller I have ever owned. I still have my first one (black) purchased from Newegg about 15 years ago that still works fine (aside from maybe some slight drift in one of the sticks that only shows up in certain games), and, in fact, I received just today a red magma one from Sony that I just couldn't resist buying for $25 on sale last week; refurbished but feels like new. You never see authentic DS4s controllers for that price anymore, only the chink counterfeit chintz. I also have a gold DS4 still in its container that I only used once to test then put it back in the box. I do have a DualSense 5 but the DS4 is smaller and better for my hands while feeling just as solid. Every time I hold an Xbox One controller in my hands, I wince at the feel of the top buttons (though they do tend to last), and I went through about five Sony DS3 controllers in less than 2 years.

So bros, if you want the best for less, go with the DS4 if you use a PC with an Xbox 360 controller emu ie DS4Windows. Someday those DS4 controllers will be showcased in glass in a museum or in an underground citadel in an age of apes and mutants as an example of top quality construction the likes of which had never been seen before. Hell, it will probably be my actual Gold one that they'll put on a pedestal and form religions around and sing dark hymns to someday with a special guest appearance by Colonel Taylor in a nearby prison cell.

There’s nothing the DS4 does better than the dual sense imo, and I find the latter more comfortable.

I can actually agree with this, and the DualSense even has features the DualShock doesn't (probably features that only a small handful of PC games support though), but the only question that remains for me is the durability of the dualsense; absolutely the most important thing for me in purchasing a controller. So many cheap, badly designed, shoddy and built to disintegrate controllers have passed through my hands over the years but I have never seen anything like the DS4. In 15 years, if I see people still using their original Dual Sense controllers, I will be suitably impressed. The ergonomic preference is understandable too. Smaller hands probably prefer smaller controllers; larger hands something bigger and beefier. The DS4 is ideal for using with tablets and phones with one of those holder thingies. I use to use the holders on planes with my tablet and DS3 controllers but the DS4 would probably be even better.

 

[Kefa]

I still think the Sony DualShock 4 controller (wireless bluetooth version) is the single greatest controller I have ever owned. I still have my first one (black) purchased from Newegg about 15 years ago that still works fine (aside from maybe some slight drift in one of the sticks that only shows up in certain games), and, in fact, I received just today a red magma one from Sony that I just couldn't resist buying for $25 on sale last week; refurbished but feels like new. You never see authentic DS4s controllers for that price anymore, only the chink counterfeit chintz. I also have a gold DS4 still in its container that I only used once to test then put it back in the box. I do have a DualSense 5 but the DS4 is smaller and better for my hands while feeling just as solid. Every time I hold an Xbox One controller in my hands, I wince at the feel of the top buttons (though they do tend to last), and I went through about five Sony DS3 controllers in less than 2 years.

So bros, if you want the best for less, go with the DS4 if you use a PC with an Xbox 360 controller emu ie DS4Windows. Someday those DS4 controllers will be showcased in glass in a museum or in an underground citadel in an age of apes and mutants as an example of top quality construction the likes of which had never been seen before. Hell, it will probably be my actual Gold one that they'll put on a pedestal and form religions around and sing dark hymns to someday with a special guest appearance by Colonel Taylor in a nearby prison cell.

There’s nothing the DS4 does better than the dual sense imo, and I find the latter more comfortable.

I can actually agree with this, and the DualSense even has features the DualShock doesn't (probably features that only a small handful of PC games support though), but the only question that remains for me is the durability of the dualsense; absolutely the most important thing for me in purchasing a controller. So many cheap, badly designed, shoddy and built to disintegrate controllers have passed through my hands over the years but I have never seen anything like the DS4. In 15 years, if I see people still using their original Dual Sense controllers, I will be suitably impressed. The ergonomic preference is understandable too. Smaller hands probably prefer smaller controllers; larger hands something bigger and beefier. The DS4 is ideal for using with tablets and phones with one of those holder thingies. I use to use the holders on planes with my tablet and DS3 controllers but the DS4 would probably be even better.

I went through 3 or 4 DualShocks 4 so I wouldn’t really say they last forever lol. Just depends on your luck and how much you play, and what you play I suppose.

The dual sense has been out for what, 4 years now? I don’t really see people complaining about it breaking or drifting as much as people initially thought it would.

 

[REhorror]

I use Dualsense.

It works.

 

[Desu]

DS4 is my favorite so far. Feels comfortable in my big hands and it just works so I see no reason to use anything else.

 

[ferratilis]

I use Dualsense.

It works.

Until it doesn't.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

I use Dualsense.

It works.

One thing I don't like about the DualSense is the much less obvious LED. On the DualShock, it's a large solid bar on top of the controller. On the DualSense it's a small rim around the touchpad. When I use DS4Windows I like to turn the LED brightness almost all the way down to save battery (and this actually adds several hours to its charge) but there's still a dim light from the LED bar to easily know it's on. On the DualSense I have to really really look or squint to see if it's on. Annoying but not a fatal flaw. DS4Windows also lets you change the color of the LED bar for different profiles. Almost a shame the author recently archived it and no longer updates.

 

[Kefa]

I use Dualsense.

It works.

One thing I don't like about the DualSense is the much less obvious LED. On the DualShock, it's a large solid bar on top of the controller. On the DualSense it's a small rim around the touchpad. When I use DS4Windows I like to turn the LED brightness almost all the way down to save battery (and this actually adds several hours to its charge) but there's still a dim light from the LED bar to easily know it's on. On the DualSense I have to really really look or squint to see if it's on. Annoying but not a fatal flaw. DS4Windows also lets you change the color of the LED bar for different profiles. Almost a shame the author recently archived it and no longer updates.

I hated the bright home button on the Xbox controllers so much, but never had any issues with Sony’s lights. I don’t play on a TV though so that may also be why. The lights on the dualsense don’t bother me at all either, in fact I don’t know notice them.