Incline What can be done about excessive loot?

[Covenant]

I think that one of the bigger causes of inventory clutter and general hassle is players feeling like they need to keep something in case it's used later. So make it explicit, whether in your manual or in the game itself, that certain categories of items - whether it's gems, old but one-of-a-kind gear, monster parts, etc - are purely for selling, and don't ever break those rules.

 

[laclongquan]

"Drop everything" is the very "excessive loot" feature we are discussing about~ It is the very thing that destroy later builds of 113.

I can remember very clearly what happened before Drop Everything. Everything is manageable. There is some excessive loot too, but only in normal sense.

With DE activated, our micromanagement workload was tripled. For nothing new gained, mind you, only to satisfy the OCD sense of making everything realism and some certain packrat mentals.

I just plump lost inteterest in JA2 after one session of DE. I know, I know, we could always play without it deactivated.

But the interest is lost, now. Possibly forever.

 

[gaussgunner]

We need time limits in RPGs. Not only that, but the enemies advance their goals concurrently with you. I've always found it dumb that the evil lord twiddles his thumb while the hero has infinite time to gear up and kill him.

I like the chapter system. Enemies make progress and unfinished business expires, but only at MQ milestones, not in simulated realtime (too realistic)

 

[Norfleet]

With DE activated, our micromanagement workload was tripled.

I had the exact opposite impression, where I no longer needed to resort to weird, hokey antics in order to make sure I wasn't being cheated out of my loot and could simply mow down my enemies, confident that the loot wouldn't magically go poof and people who had guns would thus drop those guns without my having to resort to weird mugging tactics.

JA2's loot management is better than most other games, too. One button after the battle gathers all the loot into a nice neat pile for you to then load up for later sale.

About the only thing that could make it better if you used that loot to arm your militias instead of them just spawning weird, random, useless shit.

 

[laclongquan]

You are whitewashing Drop Everything~

Before it, every battle leave from 1 to 3 page of loot drops in item tally screen. 3 for the biggest battle the like of assaulting main site with reinforcement drop in. In merchant map, we only need to care about 5 page of dropped goods waiting to sell.

After DE, EACH battle leave 3 pages, at least, of loot. Major battles can leave as much as 6 pages. Worst, scine the basic merchants mean we can not sell them all, the "sell in place" feature was devised to deal with that mountain of stuffs and it fill our coffer with cash... Meaning we can just buy anything we want online and dont need to care about using looted weapons.

DE just break every balance there is in JA2.

 

[gaussgunner]

Jesus.

I think vanilla JA2 did it right. Enemies drop the guns they were actually shooting at you with.

 

[Norfleet]

I think vanilla JA2 did it right. Enemies drop the guns they were actually shooting at you with.

They didn't reliably do this, no. That's why you had to resort to mugging them.

 

[Ontopoly]

I think that one of the bigger causes of inventory clutter and general hassle is players feeling like they need to keep something in case it's used later. So make it explicit, whether in your manual or in the game itself, that certain categories of items - whether it's gems, old but one-of-a-kind gear, monster parts, etc - are purely for selling, and don't ever break those rules.

If something is purely for selling just don't put it in the game. I don't need gems, just give me gold. Set the economy around not having to carry random gems found in chests just to sell them.

 

[Camel]

Excessive loot and broken game economy are a frequent problem in RPGs. I think BG2, Morrowind and DA:O have a good economy even if Morrowind can be exploited with selling valuable and lightweight loot to the Mudcrab and Creeper.
BG2 has one of the best in-game economy, loot system and crafting - legendary artifacts are mostly obtainable from dragons and (demi)liches, most mobs have trash like wooden spears or short swords and crafting is simple but very expensive with bringing two or three parts to a blacksmith and gives you the best weapons and armour. Obtaining a great weapon is just fun and gives you a dopamine hit when you start butchering enemies with it.
DA:O has a good in-game economy and loot system but mediocre crafting. You always lack gold throughout the game and can't buy all legendary artifacts to equip your whole party.
I don't really like Fallout 2 system when you kill Enclave soldiers in full power armour in a challenging encounter and get only their guns. Fallout 1 was much better and more realistic with loot too.
P.S. Codex: It's unrealistic to carry excessive loot in RPG.
IRL:

 

[laclongquan]

BG2 also has a good moneysink mechanism: buy and shoot expensive arrow/bolts/bullets magical throwing weapons. It's out of action if your party doesnt have good dedicated shooters but good going if you do.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Codex: let just abolish looting and inventory altoghether and give the best equipment from the start with autoreplenishing hp and mana points. Killing enemies will give money to spend on costumes and hair styles.

 

[InSight]

Another thing to consider is that most enemies would rather flee a lost battle, thus retaining their equipment.

Equipment has weight. Weight is burden. Burden slows and tires the one carries it. Thus one can drop/remove their equipment to flee faster, less weight, more speed for less energy/effort. In Ancient Greek, the Hellenic cultures, fleeing soldier often dropped their shield. Thus the saying; with the shield or on it. Said to soldier leaving to battle implying they should achieve victory or death(carried on their shield) but not flee.

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Question; can any among the forum members give an estimate on time required to implant/make/code some of the features/advice's mentioned in the topic?

 

[Victor1234]

Equipment has weight. Weight is burden. Burden slows and tires the one carries it. Thus one can drop/remove their equipment to flee faster, less weight, more speed for less energy/effort. In Ancient Greek, the Hellenic cultures in fleeing battle the soldier often dropped their shield. Thus the saying; with the shield or on it. Said to soldier leaving to battle implying they should achieve victory or death(carried on their shield) but not flee.

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Question; can any among the forum members give an estimate on time required to implant/make/code some of the features/advice's mentioned in the topic?

I always found the poetry of that time funny. You had a Spartan dude (Tyrtaios) who always talked about the ideal warrior (death before dishonor, steel against steel is glorious etc) but probably died at home in his bed and then Arkhilohkos who said what probably really happened, like the one below, but died fighting for people he himself despised in his other poems. Should've taken his own advice in that last battle!

Let who will boast their courage in the field,
I find but little safety from my shield.
Nature's, not honour's, law we must obey:
This made me cast my useless shield away,
And by a prudent flight and cunning save
A life, which valour could not, from the grave.
A better shield I can soon regain;
But who can get another life again?

 

[Justinian]

why the fuck would anyone play fallout 4

It's the only good Fallout.

 

[Justinian]

Fallout 4's settlement system exists because of another shitty Bethesda system: excessive loot. Both stand in the way of "traditional" RPG gameplay.

What can be done about excessive loot? That doesn't make a game more shit?

Let's also rank the options with a -10 to 10.

-10 are bad "solutions" that make a game even worse. +10 are actually the best solutions that make the game better.

I'll start:

[+3] Allow converting excess loot into gatcha rolls for something really amazing and special.
Like new characters to replace mid-story the main vanilla boring nameless protagonist. Like somebody with better hair.

Early game:
Just make it impossible to carry armor/weapons beyond a handful of pieces. Reward player with easy to carry money/gems instead. THis way they'll only pick up shit they actually plan to use right away or truly valuable items.

Late game:
Use space-time magic to manage loot. If you're building and equipping an entire army you could teleport items back to your city/stronghold where your supplicants process them according to instructions you left for them.

If there's no magic in the setting you could always abstract having servants who travel with you and do the same thing. You don't even have to show them, player tags the equipment for pickup and the game sends you a text line when you're out of sight that the servants who were hiding nearby took them back to base.

 

[Norfleet]

I don't really like Fallout 2 system when you kill Enclave soldiers in full power armour in a challenging encounter and get only their guns. Fallout 1 was much better and more realistic with loot too.

Err...what else would they have? Their underwear? I assume the power armor has been thoroughly slagged by you shooting it to death.

 

[Camel]

Err...what else would they have? Their underwear? I assume the power armor has been thoroughly slagged by you shooting it to death.

If I shot the Enclave or Brotherhood soldiers in the eyes or made a clean headshot I'd want an intact power armour with holes in a helmet. You leave corpses in underwear in Morrowind when looting their armour.

Brain not hit.

 

[Not.AI]

Don't roleplay as a waste collector.

But what if it's the player's purpose for living? To search every trash bin in the city just to be sure nobody threw away a Ruby-Encrusted Holy Paladin Shield?

Of course they never find a Ruby-Encrusted Holy Paladin Shield in the trash bins!

What they do find are many Old Shoes and Wet Rags. And the lesson of calculus is that many small things add up to a large thing.

Then they go buy a Ruby-Encrusted Holy Paladin Shield. At level one. At which point no monster can harm them and the game ends.

What if the game just says Holy Knight Apprentices are not the kind of people to loot rubbish bins and they game will refuse to look inside more than 3 rubbish bins inside a single day/night cycle?

(I give this idea a 5/10.)

Edit. Well, in some games, the player can actually find a Ruby-Encrusted Holy Paladin Shield in the trash. Random loot is bullshit.

 

[Not.AI]

Codex: let just abolish looting and inventory altoghether and give the best equipment from the start with autoreplenishing hp and mana points. Killing enemies will give money to spend on costumes and hair styles.

Obviously this is a good idea, a pillar of modern game design, but could it be that some other even better ideas have been overlooked?

 

[Not.AI]

BG2 also has a good moneysink mechanism: buy and shoot expensive arrow/bolts/bullets magical throwing weapons. It's out of action if your party doesnt have good dedicated shooters but good going if you do.

The challenge with this is that most players will horde such special arrows and consumables, like with fancy health potions, instead of using, just because they cost so much.

Even if the game really requires them to use that to move forward.

They will just buy and hold and play very conservatively and fail to progress and not have fun. They will become infuriated with the game and rage quit and rage review it.

It's like the ppl who buy wagyu then leave it in their freezer for years, just don't dare eat it because hey price.

Edit. I ate all my wagyu, will be videos on my tiktok for a while.

But definitely when first played rpgs I also played conservatively like typical, all the firestorm scroll spells were saved until the undead dragon.

 

[mediocrepoet]

BG2 also has a good moneysink mechanism: buy and shoot expensive arrow/bolts/bullets magical throwing weapons. It's out of action if your party doesnt have good dedicated shooters but good going if you do.

The challenge with this is that most players will horde such special arrows and consumables, like with fancy health potions, instead of using, just because they cost so much.

Even if the game really requires them to use that to move forward.

They will just buy and hold and play very conservatively and fail to progress and not have fun. They will become infuriated with the game and rage quit and rage review it.

It's like the ppl who buy wagyu then leave it in their freezer for years, just don't dare eat it because hey price.

Edit. I ate all my wagyu, will be videos on my tiktok for a while.

But definitely when first played rpgs I also played conservatively like typical, all the firestorm scroll spells were saved until the undead dragon.

By the time I get to the end of BG1, I have magic bolts and arrows coming out the ying yang. Fire arrows, arrows of detonation, arrows of dispel, etc. that I didn't use throughout the entire game. And then I get to the Sarevok fight and am like: well, guess this is it, and then just unload the entire game's consumables all at once. Naturally, the fight is over before I can even use half of it, but whatever.

 

[Covenant]

I think that one of the bigger causes of inventory clutter and general hassle is players feeling like they need to keep something in case it's used later. So make it explicit, whether in your manual or in the game itself, that certain categories of items - whether it's gems, old but one-of-a-kind gear, monster parts, etc - are purely for selling, and don't ever break those rules.

If something is purely for selling just don't put it in the game. I don't need gems, just give me gold. Set the economy around not having to carry random gems found in chests just to sell them.

As a combatfag I entirely agree, but muh immersion types will moan about a giant spider carrying gold pieces.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I think that one of the bigger causes of inventory clutter and general hassle is players feeling like they need to keep something in case it's used later. So make it explicit, whether in your manual or in the game itself, that certain categories of items - whether it's gems, old but one-of-a-kind gear, monster parts, etc - are purely for selling, and don't ever break those rules.

If something is purely for selling just don't put it in the game. I don't need gems, just give me gold. Set the economy around not having to carry random gems found in chests just to sell them.

As a combatfag I entirely agree, but muh immersion types will moan about a giant spider carrying gold pieces.

What are you talking about? Everyone knows that's where gold pieces come from. I think the spiders gestate the gold and then shoot it out like they do with webs. It's why you have to kill all the monsters you come across - it's the only way to keep the economy going. Only children believe in things like the "Royal Mint" or "Treasury".

 

[Zlaja]

I would go farther and say just disable Fast Travel always~ It's very overpowered tool in F3/NV.

A better way to handle fast travel is to either make it contextual in a way that makes sense (Morrowind is a good example), or/and make fast travel cost you either money or some other finite resource.

 

[Stavrophore]

There is no such thing as excessive loot in a properly devised ingame economy with a proper encounter pacing.