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Incline What can be done about excessive loot?

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,957
Yet you should have necessities associated with running a shop or something else along those lines or the expenses/physiological requirements/etc. during downtime/between scenarios.
Not really. Why should you have those? Plenty of games are purely about the adventure and never stop in civilized spots.
Of course a merchant is not available in a dungeon in the wilderness but the merchant was available before that and you should be expected to gather the supplies necessary to ensure you can feed yourself or to have adequate resources to make it through the dungeon and then back to the town.
I have played enough roguelikes to know rations are a shit mechanic that never adds anything interesting. Just another chore.
No. It always makes sense to have weapon/armor durability. Your sword gets blunt and chipped if you hit things that are too hard or use it improperly which may need sharpening or repair after a while and weapons can break so it's always good to have backups. Armor can get holds and dents in it which can weaken its integrity or straps can get cut so you might need to have some spare pieces and tools to do some minor field repairs. Also, a broken weapon would justify taking a weapon in fairly good condition from a dead enemy and using that instead making all that extra useless loot now have a potential purpose other than selling for a minor amount of currency. Resource management is a necessity for roleplaying and armor&weapon durability is just a form of resource management. It should be there in all rpgs just like the need for rations, water, etc.
Not really, magical weapons and armor, generally speaking, can safely ignore regular wear and tear. Repairing shit in the middle of the field, now THAT is nonsense.
I agree that resource management is important, but the resources you are managing should be interesting to manage.
Part of roleplaying is dealing with the things that would happen in the world like the increased prices from a supply shortage or wait times for services like armor/weapon repairs during wartime.
If you are killing people by the hundreds, prices dont matter.
 

copebot

Learned
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
387
Yet you should have necessities associated with running a shop or something else along those lines or the expenses/physiological requirements/etc. during downtime/between scenarios.
Not really. Why should you have those? Plenty of games are purely about the adventure and never stop in civilized spots.
Of course a merchant is not available in a dungeon in the wilderness but the merchant was available before that and you should be expected to gather the supplies necessary to ensure you can feed yourself or to have adequate resources to make it through the dungeon and then back to the town.
I have played enough roguelikes to know rations are a shit mechanic that never adds anything interesting. Just another chore.
No. It always makes sense to have weapon/armor durability. Your sword gets blunt and chipped if you hit things that are too hard or use it improperly which may need sharpening or repair after a while and weapons can break so it's always good to have backups. Armor can get holds and dents in it which can weaken its integrity or straps can get cut so you might need to have some spare pieces and tools to do some minor field repairs. Also, a broken weapon would justify taking a weapon in fairly good condition from a dead enemy and using that instead making all that extra useless loot now have a potential purpose other than selling for a minor amount of currency. Resource management is a necessity for roleplaying and armor&weapon durability is just a form of resource management. It should be there in all rpgs just like the need for rations, water, etc.
Not really, magical weapons and armor, generally speaking, can safely ignore regular wear and tear. Repairing shit in the middle of the field, now THAT is nonsense.
I agree that resource management is important, but the resources you are managing should be interesting to manage.
Part of roleplaying is dealing with the things that would happen in the world like the increased prices from a supply shortage or wait times for services like armor/weapon repairs during wartime.
If you are killing people by the hundreds, prices dont matter.
Read Anabasis some time. Or even a history of the Napoleonic wars, the US Civil War, or certain parts of World War II. There are tons of situations in which killing power doesn't necessarily mean you have enough to eat. If you have ever used a bladed tool -- even a kitchen knife -- you would know that these things wear out. There's a reason why every military in the world trains soldiers in weapon maintenance, repair, and cleaning. Anything that gets used strenuously is breaking, and that happens a lot faster in wilderness and/or combat conditions.

Games are getting lamer because every new game is just a reference to another game and not to anything even resembling reality. Games start to resemble spreadsheets or trips to Walmart more and more because it's all that the developers and the players have any experience with.
 

Arulan

Cipher
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
313
I'm not sure why we're using reality as a basis for which systems should be necessary in RPG design. While I believe a careful selection of reality-inspired systems can sometimes add to the experience, it's not absolute. I don't need to sharpen my blades in every RPG I play, nor watch what I eat lest I get fat, or have to take a shit while I'm fighting goblins.
 

FriendlyMerchant

Guest
Yet you should have necessities associated with running a shop or something else along those lines or the expenses/physiological requirements/etc. during downtime/between scenarios.
Not really. Why should you have those? Plenty of games are purely about the adventure and never stop in civilized spots.
They really should have supplies that if you run out before you can complete the adventure, you lose the game, or there should a way to replenish supplies, i.e. foraging or plundering supplies.
Of course a merchant is not available in a dungeon in the wilderness but the merchant was available before that and you should be expected to gather the supplies necessary to ensure you can feed yourself or to have adequate resources to make it through the dungeon and then back to the town.
I have played enough roguelikes to know rations are a shit mechanic that never adds anything interesting.
Rations are part of inventory management. Just because whatever roguelikes you've played don't do it well doesn't mean anything.
Just another chore.
Nontheless, I'm starting to think you just don't like rpgs since you don't want to deal with fairly basic aspects that have even been in the D&D rulesets up to third edition and later pathfinder (I'm not too familiar with the 4e or 5e item lists, but I suspect rations are still there).
No. It always makes sense to have weapon/armor durability. Your sword gets blunt and chipped if you hit things that are too hard or use it improperly which may need sharpening or repair after a while and weapons can break so it's always good to have backups. Armor can get holds and dents in it which can weaken its integrity or straps can get cut so you might need to have some spare pieces and tools to do some minor field repairs. Also, a broken weapon would justify taking a weapon in fairly good condition from a dead enemy and using that instead making all that extra useless loot now have a potential purpose other than selling for a minor amount of currency. Resource management is a necessity for roleplaying and armor&weapon durability is just a form of resource management. It should be there in all rpgs just like the need for rations, water, etc.
Not really, magical weapons and armor, generally speaking, can safely ignore regular wear and tear.
Actually, it doesn't have to be the case that magic weapons and armor can't break. Daggerfall had magic equipment that could break as the items wore under the stress of using their enchantments and you still had to repair enchanted gear in Morrowind and Oblivion.
Repairing shit in the middle of the field, now THAT is nonsense.
Patching clothing and mending straps are just basic sewing. Rivets also are fairly simple to use to attach things and don't require complicated tools or a workshop. Sharpening a blade can be done with basic and can be done with sharpening stones. There are appropriate repairs that can be made in camp. If you have a decently sized party with followers such as one which would be expected in a serious expedition, then it's entirely possible to be able to carry gear that allows you to do more complicated tasks.
I agree that resource management is important, but the resources you are managing should be interesting to manage.
There's nothing uninteresting about managing food and water supplies, or making sure you have the right gear for the environment you're going into. Plus you could easily do something other games have like given particular morale or physical bonuses for having a good meal and sleeping well through the night and on the other side, physiological and morale problems for deficits or having to do with being against unexpected conditions your weren't prepared for and needing to turn back. You can even have bonuses for having a diverse and fulfilling set of rations.
Part of roleplaying is dealing with the things that would happen in the world like the increased prices from a supply shortage or wait times for services like armor/weapon repairs during wartime.
If you are killing people by the hundreds, prices dont matter.
They do matter as killing people usually isn't a solution to most in-world problems that could pop up yet still affect the town and the prices you could pawn of gear at or the prices you'd have to pay for supplies. Plus merchants may be less likely to part with their coin in variously circumstances.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
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1,870,184
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A simplest solution for excessive loot would be "NO FAST TRAVEL". This will limit the amount of loot you carry back to your lair or to the next stage.

Morrowind test and prove this method well. Before people get access to Mark and Call spell, carry loots away from dungeons is a real chore. With it, you can very quickly collect a big pile, even if you get limited by not overweighted, since you can always run back to the spot.

Fallout 1 is a half-ass case. While it doesnt have method to carry stuffs away, it doesnt have that much loot, either. But Fallout Ettu, aka F1in2, prove that before you get the motorbike in Necropolis, the amount of loot you can hoard is limited.

Fast Travel is a big Enabler of hoarding~
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,957
They really should have supplies that if you run out before you can complete the adventure, you lose the game, or there should a way to replenish supplies, i.e. foraging or plundering supplies.
In a survival game? Perhaps, in a fantasy or sci fi game its completely and horribly out of place.
Rations are part of inventory management. Just because whatever roguelikes you've played don't do it well doesn't mean anything.
Either you have them or you dont, its a binary thing, theres no depth there. Mount and blade had a decent implementation, with them giving morale bonuses depending on variety. But generally speaking, in every other game, they are a number that you should try to keep above 0 and thats it.
Nontheless, I'm starting to think you just don't like rpgs since you don't want to deal with fairly basic aspects that have even been in the D&D rulesets up to third edition and later pathfinder (I'm not too familiar with the 4e or 5e item lists, but I suspect rations are still there).
Rations in pen and paper work differently, because shit happens there, your rations can be spoiled or lost, you can be driven to desperation, forced into banditry to survive. I have DMed such campaigns. But in a computer electronic game it just sucks as a mechanic.
Actually, it doesn't have to be the case that magic weapons and armor can't break. Daggerfall had magic equipment that could break as the items wore under the stress of using their enchantments and you still had to repair enchanted gear in Morrowind and Oblivion.
Powerful, magical weapons that break after killing a few dudes always sounded wrong to me. Like they are mundane shit with a sharper edge at that point. Stories of how this weapon slew such and such are interesting, but finding out that they need to be maintained by some schmuck son of the blacksmith on your stop before entering the dungeon is so mundane, feels like watching a heroic figure taking a dump. It detracts from the fantasy, therefore its not needed.
Patching clothing and mending straps are just basic sewing. Rivets also are fairly simple to use to attach things and don't require complicated tools or a workshop. Sharpening a blade can be done with basic and can be done with sharpening stones. There are appropriate repairs that can be made in camp. If you have a decently sized party with followers such as one which would be expected in a serious expedition, then it's entirely possible to be able to carry gear that allows you to do more complicated tasks.
They are also heavy, take up space and will get you killed if you have to go jumping around trap filled rooms. Either way, you rarely get the luxury of preparing for an expedition in most dungeon delving rpgs, or have the resources to do so. Plus it is basically expected that you will find better gear as you explore, taken from dead enemies or found in the enemy armory.

I get the fantasy you are going for, it just isnt compatible with even most mundane or low fantasy settings. Just historical rpgs, of which we dont get many, even less that implement realistic weapon and armor maintenance and ration management.

There's nothing uninteresting about managing food and water supplies, or making sure you have the right gear for the environment you're going into. Plus you could easily do something other games have like given particular morale or physical bonuses for having a good meal and sleeping well through the night and on the other side, physiological and morale problems for deficits or having to do with being against unexpected conditions your weren't prepared for and needing to turn back. You can even have bonuses for having a diverse and fulfilling set of rations.
Yeah, mount and blade, like I said above. Still, thats for a company of mercenaries in a quasi historical setting.
Anywhere else all that shit doesnt work.


They do matter as killing people usually isn't a solution to most in-world problems that could pop up yet still affect the town and the prices you could pawn of gear at or the prices you'd have to pay for supplies. Plus merchants may be less likely to part with their coin in variously circumstances.
So you fucking mug them, whats the big deal? Trying to force an economy on a powerhouse that holds the lives of so many on his hands is retarded. Money ceases to be an issue when you can just take things by force if you want to.

Im not advocating for economy to be gone from rpgs, im just saying that it eventually becoming irrelevant is an inevitability and not just that but desirable, as the moment when you can afford whatever the fuck you want feels so great, like you reached a milestone in your adventuring career.
 
Last edited:

Arbiter

Scholar
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
2,763
Location
Poland
Giving the game a time limit within which you have to beat the game solves all of the aforementioned problems.
Time limits were phased out even from oldschool RPGs, for example Fallout 1.1 patch removes the 500 day limit to defeat super mutants and Wizardry 8 no longer implements roaming NPCs hunting for artifacts that were present in Wizardry 7.
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
Patron
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
17,722
Location
Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre
Yet you should have necessities associated with running a shop or something else along those lines or the expenses/physiological requirements/etc. during downtime/between scenarios.
Not really. Why should you have those? Plenty of games are purely about the adventure and never stop in civilized spots.
Yeah, those are usually the shit ones.
 

copebot

Learned
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
387
I don't think fast travel or abstraction in general is really the main culprit. After all, all tabletop games use "fast travel." It's just that there are costs and potentially random encounters associated with it. The novel and movie Treasure of Sierra Madre is a good example of how logistics are an inherent part of a good adventure. It was even an inspiration for one of New Vegas' better DLCs. An interesting part of that movie is that the more intensive the secret gold mining operation becomes, the more attention is drawn from claim-jumpers, bandits, and the government. In a typical RPG setting, this type of concerpt could help to curb runaway loot accumulation.

Let's say that the adventuring party is looting a region of undead-infested crypts. If the party sticks to just taking what relics that they can carry with them and bury in secret treasure spots, it can avoid hostile attention. But if they have a base camp with followers that frequently runs caravans with valuable art, textiles, and potteries looted from the crypts, it's a lot more likely that bandits, rival adventurers, and hostile institutions will be attracted to the operation. A CRPG so designed can simulate this, and a tabletop game can also account for this if it does not abstract away logistical requirements.

The more that you abstract away logistics, the deeper the simulation has to be in other respects. In recent years, RPGs have spent a lot more time on story, art, dialogue, and flashy combat systems. This can create its own problems, and one of those in games like Skyrim but also that of modern D&D et alia is that of runaway character power growth that makes the whole game stale. If the point of the thread is to hone in on that excess loot problem, then it doesn't really make sense to just say that the status quo is good enough.

I think it's also worth considering how games like Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 tried to address this issue. They addressed it by making loot finite and eliminating basically all loot spigots like random encounters. I don't think this is a satisfying solution because getting loot is fun and it doesn't really address the core gameplay issue. In both of those games, you still get fabulously rich, you still vacuum up used swords that you can somehow always find a wholesale market for, and the actual experience of getting loot is just like moving cells in a spreadsheet from one column to another.

I reject the idea that time limits are not popular game mechanics. The most popular genre in video games right now is Battle Royale, and one of that genre's most fundamental mechanics is the time limit. One of the hottest subgenres is that of the Battle Royale looter like Tarkov and the recent COD Tarkovalike. This was also the core idea behind the Division's Dark Zone, but that ran into issues for other game system and technical reasons than the overall concept. What is lame is a time limit in a completely static game that lasts a very long time that you will have to replay exactly if you fail. The masses love time limits coupled with space limits, and they love the excitement of extracting loot under pressure. The indie early access first-person streamer darling game that brought this to the action-RPG genre is Dark and Darker. If you remove the pressure, the loot extraction experience loses all of its luster.
 

Trithne

Erudite
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
1,200
I don't think fast travel or abstraction in general is really the main culprit. After all, all tabletop games use "fast travel." It's just that there are costs and potentially random encounters associated with it. The novel and movie Treasure of Sierra Madre is a good example of how logistics are an inherent part of a good adventure. It was even an inspiration for one of New Vegas' better DLCs. An interesting part of that movie is that the more intensive the secret gold mining operation becomes, the more attention is drawn from claim-jumpers, bandits, and the government. In a typical RPG setting, this type of concerpt could help to curb runaway loot accumulation.

Modern RPG fast travel is more like a free teleport. TTRPG "fast travel" is a montage, best represented in a cRPG with an overworld, but those went out of fashion apparently, although Solasta has one I guess. I can't remember if you could be interrupted in Pillows when doing world map travel, but the risk of interruption is necessary for overworld travel. Similarly, if you're operating with an entire baggage train of loot, your overworld movement should be slower, and more likely to be interrupted by a larger force.
 

FriendlyMerchant

Guest
They really should have supplies that if you run out before you can complete the adventure, you lose the game, or there should a way to replenish supplies, i.e. foraging or plundering supplies.
In a survival game? Perhaps, in a fantasy or sci fi game its completely and horribly out of place.
Rations are part of inventory management. Just because whatever roguelikes you've played don't do it well doesn't mean anything.
Either you have them or you dont, its a binary thing, theres no depth there. Mount and blade had a decent implementation, with them giving morale bonuses depending on variety. But generally speaking, in every other game, they are a number that you should try to keep above 0 and thats it.
Nontheless, I'm starting to think you just don't like rpgs since you don't want to deal with fairly basic aspects that have even been in the D&D rulesets up to third edition and later pathfinder (I'm not too familiar with the 4e or 5e item lists, but I suspect rations are still there).
Rations in pen and paper work differently, because shit happens there, your rations can be spoiled or lost, you can be driven to desperation, forced into banditry to survive. I have DMed such campaigns. But in a computer electronic game it just sucks as a mechanic.
Actually, it doesn't have to be the case that magic weapons and armor can't break. Daggerfall had magic equipment that could break as the items wore under the stress of using their enchantments and you still had to repair enchanted gear in Morrowind and Oblivion.
Powerful, magical weapons that break after killing a few dudes always sounded wrong to me. Like they are mundane shit with a sharper edge at that point. Stories of how this weapon slew such and such are interesting, but finding out that they need to be maintained by some schmuck son of the blacksmith on your stop before entering the dungeon is so mundane, feels like watching a heroic figure taking a dump. It detracts from the fantasy, therefore its not needed.
Patching clothing and mending straps are just basic sewing. Rivets also are fairly simple to use to attach things and don't require complicated tools or a workshop. Sharpening a blade can be done with basic and can be done with sharpening stones. There are appropriate repairs that can be made in camp. If you have a decently sized party with followers such as one which would be expected in a serious expedition, then it's entirely possible to be able to carry gear that allows you to do more complicated tasks.
They are also heavy, take up space and will get you killed if you have to go jumping around trap filled rooms. Either way, you rarely get the luxury of preparing for an expedition in most dungeon delving rpgs, or have the resources to do so. Plus it is basically expected that you will find better gear as you explore, taken from dead enemies or found in the enemy armory.

I get the fantasy you are going for, it just isnt compatible with even most mundane or low fantasy settings. Just historical rpgs, of which we dont get many, even less that implement realistic weapon and armor maintenance and ration management.

There's nothing uninteresting about managing food and water supplies, or making sure you have the right gear for the environment you're going into. Plus you could easily do something other games have like given particular morale or physical bonuses for having a good meal and sleeping well through the night and on the other side, physiological and morale problems for deficits or having to do with being against unexpected conditions your weren't prepared for and needing to turn back. You can even have bonuses for having a diverse and fulfilling set of rations.
Yeah, mount and blade, like I said above. Still, thats for a company of mercenaries in a quasi historical setting.
Anywhere else all that shit doesnt work.


They do matter as killing people usually isn't a solution to most in-world problems that could pop up yet still affect the town and the prices you could pawn of gear at or the prices you'd have to pay for supplies. Plus merchants may be less likely to part with their coin in variously circumstances.
So you fucking mug them, whats the big deal? Trying to force an economy on a powerhouse that holds the lives of so many on his hands is retarded. Money ceases to be an issue when you can just take things by force if you want to.

Im not advocating for economy to be gone from rpgs, im just saying that it eventually becoming irrelevant is an inevitability and not just that but desirable, as the moment when you can afford whatever the fuck you want feels so great, like you reached a milestone in your adventuring career.
A long post with no arguments. Just retarded reddit tier garbage like "NOOOO IT DOESN'T WORK. NOOO I DON'T LIKE ROLEPLAYING IN ROLEPLAYING GAMES!!!" KYS retard.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,957
A long post with no arguments. Just retarded reddit tier garbage like "NOOOO IT DOESN'T WORK. NOOO I DON'T LIKE ROLEPLAYING IN ROLEPLAYING GAMES!!!" KYS retard.
You are such a disappointment. Theres very little for me to add, cope and seethe faggot.
 

copebot

Learned
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
387
I don't think fast travel or abstraction in general is really the main culprit. After all, all tabletop games use "fast travel." It's just that there are costs and potentially random encounters associated with it. The novel and movie Treasure of Sierra Madre is a good example of how logistics are an inherent part of a good adventure. It was even an inspiration for one of New Vegas' better DLCs. An interesting part of that movie is that the more intensive the secret gold mining operation becomes, the more attention is drawn from claim-jumpers, bandits, and the government. In a typical RPG setting, this type of concerpt could help to curb runaway loot accumulation.

Modern RPG fast travel is more like a free teleport. TTRPG "fast travel" is a montage, best represented in a cRPG with an overworld, but those went out of fashion apparently, although Solasta has one I guess. I can't remember if you could be interrupted in Pillows when doing world map travel, but the risk of interruption is necessary for overworld travel. Similarly, if you're operating with an entire baggage train of loot, your overworld movement should be slower, and more likely to be interrupted by a larger force.
There were "random encounters" which were actually fixed, mobile encounters in the second game (ships), and spawned encounters on a timer for the fort in the first game. All of these were finite and you would eventually run out of them in a complete run.

Solasta's random encounters are more normal, but also show the "spigot" problem. Part of this is just due any game that has save/load mechanics. If the game does not adapt to deaths and the players can't lose, of course the player will wind up inevitably rich, famous, and invincible. Generally today's gamers are rejecting this type of experience more and more in favor of games that have highly uncertain outcomes. The fact that every other player or team except one loses in a Battle Royale does not diminish its mass appeal.
 

Not.AI

Learned
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Dec 21, 2019
Messages
318
Random encounters plus grind = excessive loot.

"Random encounters are more normal, but also show the "spigot" problem. Part of this is just due any game that has save/load mechanics. If the game does not adapt to deaths and the players can't lose, of course the player will wind up inevitably rich, famous, and invincible. Generally today's gamers are rejecting this type of experience more and more in favor of games that have highly uncertain outcomes. The fact that every other player or team except one loses in a Battle Royale does not diminish its mass appeal." Good point.

Maybe encounters, even if random, should be limited "per chapter", like all The Classics. The Classics = Gothic 1 & Gothic 2.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
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Messages
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Blah blah blah Tabletop blah blah

FFS! Computer games use a different set of rules and requirement. What work for a session around a table doesnt work in a computer~

Excessive loot in computer games bring a very different type of feeling to players than EL in tabletop game.

Thus Fast Travel in computer games are very different than in Tabletop. If that rpg set up "overweight can not FT" then players can only leave excess loots back at a safe storage in that dungeon (Ja2, Morrowind, F2) or paintakingly walk back to nearest loot disposal facility. Or leave loot behind in an unsafe zone aka throwing them away.

Take Fallout 2 for example. Before getting your car, if you (and your companion) are overweighted in a random encounter, you dont really want to walk back because very dangerous (minimal AP and hard to run away). So when you are near that limit, normally you would try to avoid Random Encounters and get to safe storage zone ASAP.

Take fallout 3 for example. You dont really want to leave loots behind in a storage because cells will refresh the containers. Getting in a fight while overweighted is not that dangerous since you can do real time actions. So naturally, disable Fast Travel while overweighted become an effective tool to limit, somewhat, the excessive looting.
 

Camel

Scholar
Joined
Sep 10, 2021
Messages
2,812
They really should have supplies that if you run out before you can complete the adventure, you lose the game, or there should a way to replenish supplies, i.e. foraging or plundering supplies.

Rations are part of inventory management. Just because whatever roguelikes you've played don't do it well doesn't mean anything.
Pathfinder: Kingmaker implemented a rations mechanic and players overwhelmingly hated it. The rations were added by the devs to combat the rest problem but became another problem.
 

FriendlyMerchant

Guest
They really should have supplies that if you run out before you can complete the adventure, you lose the game, or there should a way to replenish supplies, i.e. foraging or plundering supplies.

Rations are part of inventory management. Just because whatever roguelikes you've played don't do it well doesn't mean anything.
Pathfinder: Kingmaker implemented a rations mechanic and players overwhelmingly hated it. The rations were added by the devs to combat the rest problem but became another problem.
There are a lot of people who don't like rpg elements in their games yet want to play roleplaying games. It's almost like they have the wrong genre and just want an action game, tactical game, or cyoa visual novel instead.
 

Not.AI

Learned
Joined
Dec 21, 2019
Messages
318
rations are a shit mechanic that never adds anything interesting. Just another chore.
implemented a rations mechanic and players overwhelmingly hated it. The rations were added by the devs to combat the rest problem but became another problem.
I'm not sure why we're using reality as a basis for which systems should be necessary in RPG design. While I believe a careful selection of reality-inspired systems can sometimes add to the experience, it's not absolute. I don't need to sharpen my blades in every RPG I play, nor watch what I eat lest I get fat, or have to take a shit while I'm fighting goblins.

Consensus: the problem is that most solutions are chores and chores are not fun, people play games to avoid real life chores, to put them off.

Conclusion: better minigames are needed.

Modern RPG fast travel is more like a free teleport. TTRPG "fast travel" is a montage, best represented in a cRPG with an overworld, but those went out of fashion apparently, although Solasta has one I guess. I can't remember if you could be interrupted in Pillows when doing world map travel, but the risk of interruption is necessary for overworld travel. Similarly, if you're operating with an entire baggage train of loot, your overworld movement should be slower, and more likely to be interrupted by a larger force.

Having overworlds again instead of "teleportation" fast travel would fix a lot, indeed.

I suspect large games finish their map too late to competently implement an interesting overworld. (Well, one that at all lines up with the detailed 3D ingame world.) #ConspiracyTheory

All software is always late...
 

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