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Incline What can be done about excessive loot?

laclongquan

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Fallout 3 and New Vegas test some methods to deal with excessive loot

1. Limited cash to vendors. So that if people carry everything to sell to vendors they dont always receive their full values. Thus some earliest mods to 2 games are mod that add more money to vendors. Players really HATE this feature.

2. Limited carryweight of player. You can carry anything but beyond your CW there's a speed penalty. It's pretty effective to limit the loot habit, despite there's some mods that cheat this. I would suggest this as a quite effective way to limit loot habit. It's not 100%. just 40% effective. This one also get used in Morrowind.

3. Fast Travel Disable. Fast Travel is a very effective method to gather loot, so by disabling it (when overloaded) it can limit this somewhat. I would go farther and say just disable Fast Travel always~ It's very overpowered tool in F3/NV.
 

Butter

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New Vegas has a perk that lets you fast travel while overburdened, which some people consider essential because it lets you quickly sell off all the gold bars from Dead Money. My instinct would be to not even include such a thing, but I suppose at some point you have to just let players have fun, especially if the game allows mods that are going to break your carefully balanced world anyway.
 

Dr1f7

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I remember watching a couple minutes of an outer worlds playthrough and this dude was literally searching EVERYTHING, reading item descriptions for shit like 'toilet paper roll', and picking up everything he could get his hands on. Not to mention reloading after EVERY dialogue to see EVERY dialogue played out.

good way to turn a 10 hour game into a 60 hour game
 

Trojan_generic

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If there is no loot, I have no interest in your stupid combat mechanisms, and I prefer to either run past your mobs or go for the non-violent solutions just to save the time.
Note also that less loot does not mean no loot.
 

mediocrepoet

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I remember watching a couple minutes of an outer worlds playthrough and this dude was literally searching EVERYTHING, reading item descriptions for shit like 'toilet paper roll', and picking up everything he could get his hands on. Not to mention reloading after EVERY dialogue to see EVERY dialogue played out.

good way to turn a 10 hour game into a 60 hour game
This level of autism hurts me to think about.
 

MrBuzzKill

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In my opinion more games should be like NEO Scavenger (and similar) where there's tons of "loot" but 1. That loot is mostly literal garbage, albeit sometimes useful garbage; 2. The non-garbage is either very rare or you have to fight tooth and nail for it; 3. The amount you can carry is directly limited not only by your "encumbrance" but also by the containers (pockets, bags, utility belts, etc) you have on you.
 

Daemongar

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Loot is a reward.

Most games over-reward the players as a means of keeping them interested and as a mechanic to cater to different playstyles. In pnp D&D we're attacking a castle in a city. They haven't seen a druid in years, nor killed one, so the likelihood of having magical druid equipment sitting around is pretty slim. You now have a druid with garbage equipment at 6th level, but they understand and maybe the next module will be a wooded setting, etc.

In a crpg, this doesn't come up. The sky is raining equipment so that, even using RNG for rewards, you'll probably never see a situation where the Druid is attacking a vampire at 6th level but still doesn't have a magical scimitar or staff. The developers must give that player something so that even stupid classes are viable. Every game has the players find a room with an armor rack with 10 different +1 suits of armor, and the same for weapons (or a similar mechanic.)

Bloat is tied to current trends of all inclusiveness for a staggering multitude of classes, and keeping the player engaged. Create a game where some players are fighting below their potential at 10th level, and people would be bitching here, there, and everywhere. The risk of under-rewarding the player is worse than the opposite, so this is the way it is. Nobody *really* cares about a games economy nor made a purchasing decision on said system - so I wouldn't worry too much about this changing.
 
Self-Ejected

Dadd

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Giving the game a time limit within which you have to beat the game solves all of the aforementioned problems.
 

Peachcurl

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Before we solve the problem of excessive loot, maybe we should clarify what the issue is?

Excessive loot could cause the following problems

- Annoying the player simply by having to collect stuff from the ground too often (click click click)
- Annoying backtracking between vendor / dungeon (Full inventory? AGAIN? NOOooooo!)
- Annoying backpack Tetris (What's the value/area/weight ratio of this armor?)
- Quantity means boring (Yay, another +1 sword)
- Lack of realism (Who carries three swords?)
- Too much realism (Everyone has boots, right? Lootse boots!)
- Causing super-rich hence overpowered PCs (Oh, a magic item shop. Give me 10 of every item!)

Personally, I'd prefer hand-placed, interesting loot. Yes, everyone wears shiny boots, but I don't need to get loot from every single corpse, just to have it taken from me via inventory/weight restrictions. That's just pointless filler.

If you HAVE to implement excessive loot, make it auto-collect, remove inventory restrictions, and give fast-travel access to vendors.
 

Norfleet

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not a one size fits all solution but: the setting is a dessicated hellhole where there are no dedicated traders or currencies, there are limited opportunities to barter one thing for another with survivors and that's it
That's the situation in Fallout, essentially: While caps exist, you will pretty much never use them because you can essentially barter your way to everything while emptying everyone's caps inventory to use as a form of score.

The problem with "excessive loot in games" comes from a single root cause: The excessive numbers of enemies we must fight and kill. If you don't resort to hokey, unrealistic notions of WHY highly valuable wargear isn't salvageable (because in the real world, wargear from the dead is worth a fortune and people would commonly loot battlefields for this reason), players are easily free to strip this stuff by the gallon. One possibility is to stop sending enemies with valuable wargear at us. Zombies in rotten rags and stinky monsters are probably not going to be in possession of anything particularly valuable. The other possibility is to STOP MAKING US KILL SO MANY PEOPLE THAT IT MAKES GENGHIS KHAN LOOK LIKE A CHOIRBOY. I mean, massacres are not normally the rule in combat engagements. You look at the statistics for ancient battles and you won't be seeing 99% kill/capture (you still get to loot the wargear of people who you capture, after all) rates very much. Enemies should not engage you in pointless battles to their deaths, especially not with gear that scales to yours for you to claim as loot. See Skyrim Daedric Bandits.
 

Lyric Suite

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I would put out a system where you can get a merchant in town to retrieve the loot, and get a cut in return. In a world where adventures of all stripes are known to leave a trail of blood everywhere they go it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibilities for merchants to start offering retrieval services, rent caravans and the like. We always see merchants carrying goods everywhere in those games why wouldn't they follow adventures as well.
 

Decado

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Make loot collection realistic and the problem solves itself. You can only carry a few swords before it's just unwieldy. Ever tried taking the armor off a dead guy? It would take 15 fucking minutes at least. Plus, if you just killed him how valuable is his armor anyway, now that it is burned/crushed/corroded/pierced?

Real value would be determined by things easy to carry but worth a lot -- coins, gems, jewelry. You know, basically the reason why we invented money in the first place, because our ancestors got tired of lugging around huge piles of shit to trade.
 

SharkClub

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I would put out a system where you can get a merchant in town to retrieve the loot, and get a cut in return. In a world where adventures of all stripes are known to leave a trail of blood everywhere they go it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibilities for merchants to start offering retrieval services, rent caravans and the like. We always see merchants carrying goods everywhere in those games why wouldn't they follow adventures as well.
Really like this one, instead of autistically going over every loot pile and shoving everything possible into the asshole of every member of your party to cart it back to town over multiple trips, just grab the stuff that you'll actually use, then go to town and tell the shop to go find the rest in whatever dungeon you just cleared and sell it, and a portion of the gold gets mailed to you/sent to your bank account/whatever. Saves time and satisfies the autism of loot whores (such as myself).
 

mediocrepoet

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I would put out a system where you can get a merchant in town to retrieve the loot, and get a cut in return. In a world where adventures of all stripes are known to leave a trail of blood everywhere they go it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibilities for merchants to start offering retrieval services, rent caravans and the like. We always see merchants carrying goods everywhere in those games why wouldn't they follow adventures as well.
Really like this one, instead of autistically going over every loot pile and shoving everything possible into the asshole of every member of your party to cart it back to town over multiple trips, just grab the stuff that you'll actually use, then go to town and tell the shop to go find the rest in whatever dungeon you just cleared and sell it, and a portion of the gold gets mailed to you/sent to your bank account/whatever. Saves time and satisfies the autism of loot whores (such as myself).
Solasta OC does this. They have a scavenger's guild that'll go grab everything you left on a map and then sell it off with a cut going to the guild.
 

anvi

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They should go with quality over quantity. Have a smaller number of items and have them be more interesting and game changing.
 

Norfleet

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Make loot collection realistic and the problem solves itself. You can only carry a few swords before it's just unwieldy. Ever tried taking the armor off a dead guy? It would take 15 fucking minutes at least. Plus, if you just killed him how valuable is his armor anyway, now that it is burned/crushed/corroded/pierced?
Pretty damn valuable, actually. There's a reason that it was common for people to loot battlefields and strip the dead and dying of their valuable wargear, a practice that still happens today. Loot value keeps getting out of hand because players keep having to kill and thus loot unrealistic number of enemies.

Real value would be determined by things easy to carry but worth a lot -- coins, gems, jewelry. You know, basically the reason why we invented money in the first place, because our ancestors got tired of lugging around huge piles of shit to trade.
Well, sure, but what comes AFTER that? The average guy you kill is not gonna be full of coins. You're going to have other room for loot. And depending on how creatively you pack, perhaps a LOT of room for loot. All this does it turn things into an optimization puzzle of picking the loot by value for space. There's still gonna be lots of loot, and it's because you just killed about a dozen or more heavily armed warriors. Again.
 

Norfleet

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They should go with quality over quantity. Have a smaller number of items and have them be more interesting and game changing.
The same applies to enemies, really. That's why we have a profusion of loot to begin with: The need to mow through the entireity of Ali Baba's 40 thieves...every single encounter. The entire point is that 40 is supposed to a fuckload of thieves and the guy only has to do this ONCE in his ENTIRE LIFE. We're not supposed to be doing this every single fight! Also, thieves don't typically have very good loot. Like, a rusty knife and that's about it. Not 40 thieves worth of Daedric armor every bandit camp.
 

Old Hans

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Pretty damn valuable, actually. There's a reason that it was common for people to loot battlefields and strip the dead and dying of their valuable wargear, a practice that still happens today. Loot value keeps getting out of hand because players keep having to kill and thus loot unrealistic number of enemies.
the big difference is that historical battle field looting wasn't some daily activity. You didn't have Geralt of Rivia showing up to the shop everyday with another pile of iron swords
 

Silverfish

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1. You can buy things from vendors, but not sell anything to them. Said vendors only sell consumables, not gear.
2. There's only one of any item that can be equipped (one sword, one shield, one spear, one heavy helmet, one light helmet, etc)
3. Enemies drop cash and random consumables.
4. Gear has fixed locations.
5. Gear progression is gay. Stop it.
 

Norfleet

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the big difference is that historical battle field looting wasn't some daily activity.
That brings us back to "unrealistic numbers of enemies you have to kill", yes.

You didn't have Geralt of Rivia showing up to the shop everyday with another pile of iron swords
You mean the SAME pile of swords. Consider that the typical RPG merchant pays you half value or less. How many swords do you think even can exist in a world? The guy's turning right around and selling those same swords at full price to the guy who will attack you in 5 minutes. Then you come back and sell him back those same swords, rinse, repeat. Those vendors are making out like bandits.

1. You can buy things from vendors, but not sell anything to them. Said vendors only sell consumables, not gear.
2. There's only one of any item that can be equipped (one sword, one shield, one spear, one heavy helmet, one light helmet, etc)
3. Enemies drop cash and random consumables.
4. Gear has fixed locations.
That brings us back to "arbitrary, artificial methods of trying to stop looting" when you're hellbent on making the player kill unrealistic numbers of enemies, yes.
 

Victor1234

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Dec 17, 2022
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I just finished reading The Recollections of Rifleman Harris today, a memoir by a British soldier in Portugal & Spain during the Napoleonic Wars. They (try to) loot very often as you might expect, are constantly surrounded by corpses, but still never have anything good in their inventory.

1. Enemies know they'll be searched and hide their money. The only time he gets actual money off a dead guy, he found nothing at first. Someone experienced comes by who tells him to check certain spots and he eventually finds the dead guy's coins in a secret pocket in the lining of his coat. His own money is in his hometown bank and whenever they get any pay they usually spend it right there or send it home via the logistics chain.

2. His inventory gets dumped very often to lighten the load during marches. Marches are always brutal and sometimes the dudes even throw their weapons away. One time he and a buddy drop from exhaustion and wake up at night. They get lost in a swamp and nearly drown, lose most of their gear and only survive because the officers send dudes out with lanterns to collect stragglers and they crawl towards the light. By the time he leaves Spain, he doesn't even have a backpack because it got too heavy to carry so he dumped it and the only reason he kept his rifle is to use it as a walking staff. Even his belt and bayonet scabbard fall into the sea when he's climbing onto the ship to go back home because they get tangled and he'd rather leave them than fall and drown to save them.

3. Things, especially clothing, are very poor quality to begin with. It all falls apart because it's cheap, especially footwear. There are no left and right shoes, only square toes, with small, medium or large as the only sizes. Most of the time the only real loot is taking boots or shoes off dead guys that are only slightly better than yours. Most of the longer marches end with even the officers wearing rags on their feet because even their expensive boots have literally fallen apart. Even the hats are poor quality. By the time they arrive back home most of the dudes are wearing bandana rags on their heads.

4. The stuff that doesn't fall apart, the soldiers destroy themselves. At one point everyone takes the metal buttons off their tunics and bend or beat them into coin shapes, pretending they are British money to buy wine from the locals. They literally drank their buttons away....

5. He finds the biggest loot trove ever in a hat lying beside a dying guy, who is clearly in a lot of pain and suffering badly. The hat is full of golden/jewelled crosses and other obvious church loot. He's too scared to take anything and thinks the French guy is dying horribly as a curse for having looted churches. This also comes up when he's thinking of looting his own guys. One of the British officers dies and he'd love to take his boots, but the others are watching and he doesn't want to get in trouble for looting his own dudes.

6. They're constantly hungry. The best loot is the kind you can eat. Looting raw turnips in the field? Check. At one point he's so hungry he takes a half chewed biscuit hanging out of a dead guy's mouth, wipes the blood off and eats the rest.

7. Local people literally buy anything if they're trading. At one point he sells the shirt off his back for food, but the trick is he doesn't usually come across local people...most of the time they're either hiding or don't want to interact because they're not sure if the French will win and then they'll be in trouble.
 

anvi

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You didn't have Geralt of Rivia showing up to the shop everyday with another pile of iron swords
You mean the SAME pile of swords. Consider that the typical RPG merchant pays you half value or less. How many swords do you think even can exist in a world? The guy's turning right around and selling those same swords at full price to the guy who will attack you in 5 minutes. Then you come back and sell him back those same swords, rinse, repeat. Those vendors are making out like bandits.

Thoughts like that remind me how far off RPGs are from where I thought we would be by now. Like with MUDs and early MMOs there was an attempt to make a realistic economy, each sword was made by a blacksmith and they decayed over time so swords are valuable in the world. And some games have prices based on supply and demand and you can buy things cheaply in one region and sell for a profit somewhere far away. But all that kind of got forgotten from games.
 

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