Wasteland Wasteland 2 Pre-Release Discussion Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Aniwr]

Question: can we say that Wasteland has JRPG combat because if you cut out the graphics representation from JRPGs, it's basically the same as Wasteland ie. no careful maneuvering around game world and obstacles and just watching your characters and enemies go forth and back from their fixed positions to play out their attacks instead, which is handled by pure text in Wasteland.

There are similiarities, but I would tend towards no - manuevering in Wasteland can be important - it may be inconvenient at times, but you can split the party (have one member "Run") to have brawlers/knife fighters approach while the gunners stay at range or to move someone (like a medic) out of the line of fire. Most of the time you don't need to do it, and it can be a pain at times (Since if one portion of the party is not targeted, you have to explicitly say you want them to perform a combat round), but the flexibility is there.

 

[Johannes]

So blob combat = JRPG combat ?

 

[villain of the story]

Well, isn't it? Wasteland provides further options on the formula but fundamentally, that's what it also is.

 

[Gregz]

It will most likely be 3D, deal with it. Is that a problem somehow?

Honestly yeah, I want a 3D Wasteland as much as I want a 3D X-Com (I don't.) Sadly, they are making the latter.

Ideally it should be 2D top-down exploration with JA2 style isometric squad-based combat, with a MOO2 'fast combat' (non-tactical) option that plays similar to combat from Wasteland 1.

But you are right, they would never do something like that...sadly. I wish KoTC caught on with more people than just gamers. That game could have started a 2D renaissance/revival.

I've played my fair share of 2D games and, sure, you get used to it. But you have to admit there are times when you can't see around a corner, can't see an enemy cuz he's stuck behind an open door and the engine doesn't let you peek around it. Or you get the walls fading in and out so you can actually see that there's a guy on the other side of that wall -- or Fallout's green outline thing.

Point is, as in a table-top RPG, it's nice to have a good 3D view of the playing field. Makes things more tactical and (usually) needs less silliness like invisible walls, green outlines around enemies, etc.

Well, hmm. I guess the issue may be random encounters. Personally I enjoy them (grew up with them), but I know some people don't. Wasteland was mostly random encounters, so I was just assuming the sequel would work the same way.

JA2 is more in agreement with what you want. You have overland 2D exploration, but 'town level' exploration is squad based, tactical and LOS (i.e. you can scout and avoid encounters if you want).

Personally I would hate to 'mow the lawn' in needles or vegas with an entire squad. I much prefer quickly scooting around using arrow keys on a 2D map and talking to people, getting from A to B, and if a random encounter pops up, then it's squad time (or quick combat if the player prefers). Squad based combat is great, but moving a squad around man by man (especially while trying to maintain stealth) can get very tedious.

Ideally the player should be able to toggle between those travel/encounter approaches at any time.

 

[lulurkinglurkerlurk]

I want radiaton hazard,also some nice mutated things.

 

[Lexx]

I want to be able to remote-control a scorpitron at some point in the game. Even if it's just temporary.

 

[DwarvenFood]

I want it to throw unexpected shit at me, I'm going in head first without expectations.

 

[Zed]

I want it to
[...]
I'm going in head first without expectations.

 

[Excidium]

Do not want:

- Blob combat

- Meaningless encounters

 

[MisterStone]

I'd sort of like to have wilderness encounters, as part of the whole survival dynamic, but I agree that one problem with wasteland is that you can't just walk around a map without a bunch of crazed unarmed hobos trying to bumrush you squad of machinegun-wielding soldiers. In places like needles, or the University town area (forgot the name) it got kind of tedious... In Vegas, at first it was cool because it was a struggle to survive and move around there when you first arrive, but eventually that shit got old too.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Well, isn't it?

Blob combat came first, so no, it isn't.

 

[villain of the story]

AoD isn't isometric.

Is there a fundamental difference between blob combat and JRPG combat? Perhaps it was redundant to call it "JRPG combat" at all. Both are blob combat.

 

[Gregz]

For those who don't read the news forum, informative related Wasteland 2 threads:

Wasteland 2 RPG Codex Interview with Brian Fargo - Part 1

Mark Morgan To Be Composer For Wasteland 2

Wasteland Kickstarter Project Interview with Brian Fargo

Fargo being serious about crowdfunding Wasteland 2

MCA On Wasteland 2 And Kickstarter

 

[Clockwork Knight]

So blob combat = JRPG combat ?

Well, isn't it?

Blob combat came first, so no, it isn't.

Oh, so JRPG combat = blob combat.

...wait a minute.

 

[MisterStone]

LS is right, they are pretty much the same other than the visual as far as I can tell (with the exception of a few JRPGs that use a tactical map)

 

[Excidium]

I think you missed CK's point...

 

[Alex]

Eh, saying jrpg combat is the same as blob combat is a bit like saying combat in Deus EX is similar to Doom. Sure, both JRPGs and blobbers use menu driven action, but take Wizardry 6 for example. It has a much different balancing, feel and array of abilities than a JRPG like, say, Dragon Quest. JRPGs also, for example, have a tendency of taking the numbers to keep inflating their numbers well past what a blobber would usually do. I mean, even the Xeen saga of Might and Magic has more reasonable numbers for attacks and damage than your standard JRPG. Besides, Wasteland did consider distances in combat.

 

[villain of the story]

Trivialities. Is chess TB? Is Fallout's combat TB? Are they both tactical TB or not? Yes, they are. Don't mistake individual internal diversity of systems for defining attributes. Fallout and JA2's models are nothing alike either.

 

[l3loodAngel]

I wish KoTC caught on with more people than just

gamers. That game could have started a 2D renaissance/revival.

Why the fuck would someone want 2D game? It's like wanting black and white tv's, and silent movies. I thought RPGs are about content and not torment...

 

[Johannes]

Define "JRPG combat"

 

[The_scorpion]

I want to be able to remote-control a scorpitron at some point in the game. Even if it's just temporary.

wasteland 2: i want to be a scorpitron













make that "i want to be The_scorpitron"

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

8-bit graphics, everything else like in Wasteland but better. All text in game, no paragraph book, plz.

 

[Gregz]

I wish KoTC caught on with more people than just

gamers. That game could have started a 2D renaissance/revival.

Why the fuck would someone want 2D game? It's like wanting black and white tv's, and silent movies. I thought RPGs are about content and not torment...

Well, here's what Brian Fargo (the guy in charge of WL2) has to say on the subject:

- The prospect of a Wasteland 2 has sparked a lot of talk amongst gamers and I'm sure you've received an overwhelming amount of feedback. What do you feel are the most common features people want to see in a Wasteland 2 and do they match up with the features you and your team envisage for the game?

Based on what I have been reading it seems we are in sync with what the players want to see. The beauty of fan funding and the internet is that we can be communicating with the fan base along the way to solicit input for the broad strokes of things. Should the art style be bleak, muted and desolate or does a Borderlands 2 look appeal to the fans. We are going to get on the same page up front. I've responded to some interviews on my sensibility thoughts and so far the fans seem to like what they are hearing. There is a definite appetite to play this more classic style of game and I certainly want to make it! To be a little more specific this is going to be a top down, party and turn based game which has always been a great formula. It will also be a larger party most likely following the same vibe of the first Wasteland with 4 player characters and 3 NPC's in your group. I always thought having just 3 players in a group didn't feel like a real party based game.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8005

 

[dungeoncrawler]

I wish KoTC caught on with more people than just

gamers. That game could have started a 2D renaissance/revival.

Why the fuck would someone want 2D game? It's like wanting black and white tv's, and silent movies. I thought RPGs are about content and not torment...

Whats wrong with 2D? I assume we count games like Jagged Alliance, Arckanum and Planescape Torment as 2D ("pseudo isometric", but no real 3D models). Top down view can look good enough - and doesn't need full 3D in my opinion. Talking about top down view it can present the environment even better at some cases than first person 3D view. And give clearer, more tactical view. That's what I think at least. 3D view is not a must.

 

[Quetzacoatl]

I wish KoTC caught on with more people than just

gamers. That game could have started a 2D renaissance/revival.

Why the fuck would someone want 2D game? It's like wanting black and white tv's, and silent movies. I thought RPGs are about content and not torment...

Whats wrong with 2D? I assume we count games like Jagged Alliance, Arckanum and Planescape Torment as 2D ("pseudo isometric", but no real 3D models). Top down view can look good enough - and doesn't need full 3D in my opinion. Talking about top down view it can present the environment even better at some cases than first person 3D view. And give clearer, more tactical view. That's what I think at least. 3D view is not a must.

2D also won't look as terribly dated as 3D would a few years down the road.