Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Wasteland Wasteland 2 Pre-Release Discussion Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,624
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
And they won't get it because the Saw doesn't bow to pressure

Yes, which reminds me, did we ever find out whether different types of weapons and armor have different durability capacities?

OH WAIT
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,708
And they won't get it because the Saw doesn't bow to pressure

Yes, which reminds me, did we ever find out whether different types of weapons and armor have different durability capacities?

OH WAIT
He was never happy with that decision and had Tim Cain tell us about his lousy idea well in advance so they could cut it early.

If they feel as though it deserves more features while they're playing it, then they'll add some. But a bunch of people demanding one when they're in the process of polish and bug-fixing isn't going to happen. At best, they'll put it in the to-do list for the expansion.
 

I_am_Ian

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
507
Location
The United States of America
Roguey i know your game. For whatever reason You enjoy being the most hated on the codex with the longest ignored list and you've succeeded at that. But you can't wait for Wasteland 2 just like the rest of us.
 

Rake

Arcane
Joined
Oct 11, 2012
Messages
2,969
And they won't get it because the Saw doesn't bow to pressure

Yes, which reminds me, did we ever find out whether different types of weapons and armor have different durability capacities?

OH WAIT
Sorry infi, Roguey is right here. In formspring Josh answered a question about if he would add a feature that he considered very good, that improves the game and the backers would like, if it would require 1 month additional time to ship. And his answer was, more or less, he would save it for the DLC/expansion. He would push for more time only for polish, if the game needed it.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,624
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Sorry infi, Roguey is right here. In formspring Josh answered a question about if he would add a feature that he considered very good, that improves the game and the backers would like, if it would require 1 month additional time to ship. And his answer was, more or less, he would save it for the DLC/expansion. He would push for more time only for polish, if the game needed it.

Who said anything about needing an additional month?
 

Rake

Arcane
Joined
Oct 11, 2012
Messages
2,969
Sorry infi, Roguey is right here. In formspring Josh answered a question about if he would add a feature that he considered very good, that improves the game and the backers would like, if it would require 1 month additional time to ship. And his answer was, more or less, he would save it for the DLC/expansion. He would push for more time only for polish, if the game needed it.

Who said anything about needing an additional month?
Then adding new features would cut time from QA. Unless the game is completely stable and Obsidian actualy finishes the game sooner than they excpected(fat chance that), i don't see how they can add more features without affecting their timetable.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,624
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Then adding new features would cut time from QA. Unless the game is completely stable and Obsidian actualy finishes the game sooner than they excpected(fat chance that), i don't see how they can add more features without affecting their timetable.

Depending on the specific feature, "adding new features" probably isn't the development time bottleneck you think it is.

In any case, this whole "BETA MUST BE FEATURE/CONTENT COMPLETE" is autistic as fuck. The game you're getting isn't literally the beta anyway, it's more like a playable subset with the completely unfinished stuff disabled.

MMX Early Access shipped with four out of twelve playable classes. Is that beta? Alpha? Does anybody actually care about this stuff?
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
There's something to be said for polished implementation though. Different genre, and I know I've harped on about it to death, but comparing how much more Deus Ex does with less features and simpler mechanics than FO3 or ME, makes a good argument for spending your extra time making sure your current features are well implemented ahead of inserting new ones.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,708
In any case, this whole "BETA MUST BE FEATURE/CONTENT COMPLETE" is autistic as fuck.
I'm expecting inXile's internal beta to be content complete and as far as I know it is. I'm also expecting it to be feature complete but apparently it isn't and they are also considering adding a crouch stance for some reason. I was expecting this to be released within a few months but it looks like there's no way that's happening. It's troubling that Fargo doesn't have a target release date.

MMX Early Access shipped with four out of twelve playable classes. Is that beta? Alpha? Does anybody actually care about this stuff?
Pre-alpha.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,624
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
That crouching thing sounds like something they said to appease JA/stance-fags. "Uh yeah we'll see how it goes in the beta, sure sure!"

As for salvage and stealth, those might be in the internal beta too, but with some kind of issue that makes them unplayable. Perhaps somebody will be able to hack the external beta and enable them. Can Brother None provide more details?
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,957
That crouching thing sounds like something they said to appease JA/stance-fags. "Uh yeah we'll see how it goes in the beta, sure sure!"
Stances, especially crouching, are a precious and important part of immurshun when it comes to tactical rpgs set in a technologically advanced world, it makes a lot of sense there, the game would feel incomplete without it.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,842
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Stances, especially crouching, are a precious and important part of immurshun when it comes to tactical rpgs set in a technologically advanced world, it makes a lot of sense there, the game would feel incomplete without it.
Eh, as long as the combat animations look decent relative to the environment, I'll be perfectly immersed. I won't be jolted out of the game because the system won't let me spend 2 AP to get a +15% to hit and defense bonus.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,957
Stances, especially crouching, are a precious and important part of immurshun when it comes to tactical rpgs set in a technologically advanced world, it makes a lot of sense there, the game would feel incomplete without it.
Eh, as long as the combat animations look decent relative to the environment, I'll be perfectly immersed. I won't be jolted out of the game because the system won't let me spend 2 AP to get a +15% to hit and defense bonus.
Fucking missing the point... it will when you are in front of a (indestructible, non explosive) barrel and your chest gets filled with lead.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,842
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
So ... you're saying that when I'm far away from a barrel and my character gets shot, I will be jolted out of the game because I can't spend action points to get a certain % defense bonus? I guess I can't argue with that.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,624
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
In theory, a game could model line of sight such that shots over a barrel or other obstacle suffer an accuracy bonus, even without ducking. Has an RPG ever done that?

I think Shadowrun Returns may have done something like that, actually.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
1,567
So ... you're saying that when I'm far away from a barrel and my character gets shot, I will be jolted out of the game because I can't spend action points to get a certain % defense bonus? I guess I can't argue with that.
It's not " a certain defense bonus", bonus for standing behind cover should be there regardless, it's the difference between standing behind on obstacle and crouching behind an obstacle. One leads to you getting filled with lead, one doesn't. Let's look at another :popamole: as an example. In GoW, even before you're actually in cover, you can crouch run to get behind it, doing so is infinitely superior to walking/normal running because if the obstacle is high enough, the enemy can't shoot you.
v
v
v
v
155jajq.jpg
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,842
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I see your point, Onholyservicebound, and I understand that crouching and going prone realistically should make you harder to hit, especially in many and varied cover situations, of which your example is but one.

Also, props to your mad Paint skills. :brofist

However, I still firmly disagree that it will be catastrophically "immersion breaking" for these bonuses to not be realistically tracked throughout the game and elaborate systems built for them.

Let's say that in your example above the bad guy has a 70% chance to hit me in the top part and a 30% chance to hit me in the bottom part. What will happen in the game? He shoots, and:
A) dice are rolled. He misses me. I say, "Good! He missed me!"
B) dice are rolled. He hits me. I say, "Dammit! He hit me!"
Whether a hit is likely or not, there are still multiple outcomes. Him shooting me doesn't break the fiction of the game world, even if it was improbable. If he had a 1% chance to hit me, and he hit me, or if he missed me with 99%, it's still consistent with the game world. So in terms of breaking the fiction, the exact number doesn't matter.

Apparently, for some people there is a
C) "But I zoomed in to first person mode and traced his line of sight and it's completely impossible for him to hit me! I was far away from the barrel, but I WOULDA CROUCHED! I WOULDAAA CROUUUCHED!!"

If you're* unwilling to accept a % chance of being hit even when your opponent is at a disadvantage, you shouldn't be playing RPGs in the first place.

For that matter, if not being able to tweak fiddly little attack and defense bonuses at all times ruins the verisimilitude of the game world for you*, what the fuck are you doing playing a turn-based game? You've already accepted a world in which everyone stands around waiting for one guy to shoot at them, yet not being able to change the floating numbers in the air by 10% via duck-walking breaks the magic of the fiction? That's what it would take to ruin your suspension of disbelief? What freakin planet are you from?

*Not addressed specifically to Onholyservicebound or indeed to any one person in particular.
 

Zetor

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
1,706
Location
Budapest, Hungary
In theory, a game could model line of sight such that shots over a barrel or other obstacle suffer an accuracy bonus, even without ducking. Has an RPG ever done that?

I think Shadowrun Returns may have done something like that, actually.
Yes, SRR does that; in fact, it is a cumulative bonus/malus. It also applies to both parties except for the cover object that one of them is directly using. So if A was behind a med cover object and there was a heavy cover object between A and B, B would have a cumulative 'heavy+medium cover' penalty when shooting at A, and A would have a 'heavy cover' penalty when shooting at B. You can also set objects to break LOS and shots separately (e.g. unbreakable window wouldn't block LOS but would block shots; very thick foliage would block LOS but not block shots).
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,624
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Yes, SRR does that; in fact, it is a cumulative bonus/malus. It also applies to both parties except for the cover object that one of them is directly using. So if A was behind a med cover object and there was a heavy cover object between A and B, B would have a cumulative 'heavy+medium cover' penalty when shooting at A, and A would have a 'heavy cover' penalty when shooting at B. You can also set objects to break LOS and shots separately (e.g. unbreakable window wouldn't block LOS but would block shots; very thick foliage would block LOS but not block shots).

MLMarkland Brother None You're not going to let SRR do something better than Wasteland 2, are you? This better be in.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
1,567
I see your point, Onholyservicebound, and I understand that crouching and going prone realistically should make you harder to hit, especially in many and varied cover situations, of which your example is but one.

Also, props to your mad Paint skills. :brofist

However, I still firmly disagree that it will be catastrophically "immersion breaking" for these bonuses to not be realistically tracked throughout the game and elaborate systems built for them.
.
Feel the same way, I couldn't care less if they add it in or not. I was just trying to "illustrate" Lhynn's point a little better, they say a picture's worth a thousand words.(That one had two panels so it was worth 2 thousand.) I'm perfectly fine with them doing what Shadowrun returns allegedly did, what with the bonus defense simply by being behind(Not in) cover. I also agree with Roguey that the beta should be feature complete, and adding more shit would just delay the release and add untested, potentially bug riddled features.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom