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Wasteland Wasteland 2 Pre-Release Discussion Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Self-Ejected

Excidium

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I'm glad there's a retarded argument to match TB vs RTwP.

Just say "I don't like keywords", it's easier than typing a wall of text that sums up to that.
 

Cosmo

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But I *want* that reactivity and there is NOTHING wrong in wanting it.

:roll:
What a compelling argument. I suppose the little customer that is Captain Shrek is always right. If only the devs would follow his idea of a perfect game...

Anyway, and contrary to your belief in a perfect all-around system, the amount and type of reactivity that you put into a dialog system really depends on what type of RPG you want to make. You cannot decide one system is better for your game by reasoning out of the context of the game itself.
But, from what i know and what little i've seen of W2, i'd say again that choosing some middle ground between keywords and full sentences would have been the best choice.
Which leaves the fact that, during the kickstarter, Fargo stressed over and over the importance of reactivity and choice and consequence, which makes me think that maybe W2's devs didn't show us everything (at least i hope so).
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
I'm glad there's a retarded argument to match TB vs RTwP.

Just say "I don't like keywords", it's easier than typing a wall of text that sums up to that.
So you want them to use keywords instead of typing out a full dialog? I'M ON TO YOU. :M
 

hiver

Guest
there is going to be an update on dialogue and probably on some other stuff seen in the gameplay video.

in the works currently.
 

Infinitron

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http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3468

Brother None said:
Hey guys, this is just a quick response from inXile to the reaction to the keyword dialog system as shown in the video. The usage of keywords in dialog as designed by us was undercommunicated up to this point, too few were expecting it to work this way, and that's our bad.

A lot of considerations go into this type of design decision. It counts for a lot that Wasteland successfully utilized this system, as did other great classics before and since.

Another key for us is that you play the part of four rangers rather than one character with a set background. The person speaking could be a Russian boozehound, a grizzled veteran, a straight-laced military man, or an easy-going rapscallion raised on the streets, not to mention the player can determine which one of them is doing the talking.

Furthermore, this keyword dialog system allows us to make a much more complex and dynamic system than a full line dialog tree would have. The video was not intended to show this off in-depth, it was more focused on giving an overall impression on progress, but this is definitely something we'll dig into in the future. There will definitely be choices to make through dialog and complex reactivity, its presentation doesn't change that.

As mentioned, we're doing an update that will take a much closer look at the system and how it works. After that, we'll be looking for feedback to figure out how we can improve upon it, ranging from changing simple keywords like "help" into short phrases like "offer to help" to making it so the keyword selections show up as short sentences in the dialog log, rather than as single words. Expect to hear from us fairly soon.
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
Well, From Help -> offer to help. Finally some improvement.

What is amusing is that they will realize that it is MORE convenient to make it:

Offer to help -> Do you need help?
 

tuluse

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Except you actually made it less clear. You turned an offer into a question, which means when clicking on it you might expect a response before deciding what to do.
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
Except you actually made it less clear. You turned an offer into a question, which means when clicking on it you might expect a response before deciding what to do.
But.. but... Branching!
 

Kem0sabe

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Another key for us is that you play the part of four rangers rather than one character with a set background. The person speaking could be a Russian boozehound, a grizzled veteran, a straight-laced military man, or an easy-going rapscallion raised on the streets, not to mention the player can determine which one of them is doing the talking.

NWN2 SoZ says hi. And they did a bang up job with their dialogue and skill check system while using a player generated party.


Furthermore, this keyword dialog system allows us to make a much more complex and dynamic system than a full line dialog tree would have

No it doesn´t. In fact no modern RPG has achieved this, and i doubt inXile will manage to do it considering what they have shown.
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
Another key for us is that you play the part of four rangers rather than one character with a set background. The person speaking could be a Russian boozehound, a grizzled veteran, a straight-laced military man, or an easy-going rapscallion raised on the streets, not to mention the player can determine which one of them is doing the talking.

NWN2 SoZ says hi. And they did a bang up job with their dialogue and skill check system while using a player generated party.


Furthermore, this keyword dialog system allows us to make a much more complex and dynamic system than a full line dialog tree would have

No it doesn´t. In fact no modern RPG has achieved this, and i doubt inXile will manage to do it considering what they have shown.
Comparison to SOZ is certainly a great idea. I wish they actually put dialogue skills in, which I think right now is not implemented.
 

Kem0sabe

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What they've shown wasn't meant to show they'd achieved it.

True, but considering what overall state of the game they did show... doesn´t leave me with high expectations.

Heck, i´m down for a heavy combat rpg from these guys, with dialogue just being there as filler, but saying that it will be deep and complex but we just have to take their word for it, not so much.
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
I thought skills affecting dialog is something has been confirmed.
Hmm where? Might have missed that.

EDIT: Nono. I meant DIALOGUE skills. As in Bluff, Diplomacy etc.
Here's the full list of skills.

http://wasteland.falloutwiki.com/Wasteland_2_skills

So yeah, no specific dialog skills (other than maybe barter).
Ah yes. Still Spot Lie, intimidate and Leadership can contribute. I really hope they don't go over their head with the skills. There is only that much content they can do within a limited time.
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
Hmm. So apparently skill based checks are in! This is a great news.

As I went through the skills, I had a feeling that some of them were pure Joke skills. But the weapons skills seem to be like as if they are trying to have a XCOM like party. If that is true, this game is going to be glorious.
 

Blaine

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Hmm. So apparently skill based checks are in! This is a great news.

"News" implies information that wasn't widely known months ago.

As I went through the skills, I had a feeling that some of them were pure Joke skills.

Captain Shrek confirmed for not having played Wasteland. Also, Brian stated months ago that Toaster Repair et alia would be making a return in Wasteland 2.
 

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