Game News Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Update #23: Gameplay Video!

[Gozma]

Someone mentioned Facade ( http://www.interactivestory.net/ ) earlier. If InXile would have enough time to do something like that, then when it comes to dialog, that would be some awesome (and genuinely next-gen) shit.

That is like linking to Sumotori Dreams in a thread about a fighting game kickstarter man.

 

[Bulba]

The intent behind the keywords won't matter in the game, because the game is going to run on, "Shut up, it's an oldschool RPG" logic. Oldschool like Wasteland or Gold Box, not oldschool like Fallout. Like the point of talking to someone when you show up at a location is to get the quests for that location, not to establish who the PC or decide how you want the world to be. There will be decisions but it won't be about decisions.

I'd be happy if there were some typed-in keyword-based Agatha Christie mystery quests or something, but that would be extremely tedious for the whole game. My reaction to playing through some of the best text IF games has been, "Man, look how good something can be and still irritate and bore the shit out of me just from the basic interface mechanics and conventions."

there is a game called fallout tactics that you are gona love... unfortunately for you, you are a massive minoraty and most people thought that fallout tactics was boring at best. I don't want w2 to become ft with a bunch of souless missions.

 

[EG]

As the system is presented, you don't need to know what you're going to say, as you're not saying anything. T

The intent behind the keywords won't matter in the game, because the game is going to run on, "Shut up, it's an oldschool RPG" logic. Oldschool like Wasteland or Gold Box, not oldschool like Fallout. Like the point of talking to someone when you show up at a location is to get the quests for that location, not to establish who the PC or decide how you want the world to be. There will be decisions but it won't be about decisions.

So . . . dialog was never good, but for Fallout.

The Decline has it right.

 

[skuphundaku]

Someone mentioned Facade ( http://www.interactivestory.net/ ) earlier. If InXile would have enough time to do something like that, then when it comes to dialog, that would be some awesome (and genuinely next-gen) shit.

That is like linking to Sumotori Dreams in a thread about a fighting game kickstarter man.

No, it's even worse.:D My point that it would be awesome if they did it still stands, though.

 

[Davaris]

It's not your mouth. It's your characters' mouth.

Same goddamn difference and you know that's what I meant.

No, I'm starting to get the impression some of you don't want to play a character, you want to play yourselves. The difference is one can be accounted for by the writing staff, the other can't.

Think of it this way: You are playing a PnP and the game master not only gives you options, but tells you exactly what your character will say. Doesn't sound like much fun.

I would rather drop the keyword list altogether, and require the player to think what to input into the parser. That they are allowing additional keyboard entry is a good thing.

This is something I am interested in. I like the idea of paying attention to the environment and what the characters say and from all that, figure out what I need to say.

Keywords could still be offered on request, but with a penalty of some kind.

 

[Infinitron]

The intent behind the keywords won't matter in the game, because the game is going to run on, "Shut up, it's an oldschool RPG" logic. Oldschool like Wasteland or Gold Box, not oldschool like Fallout. Like the point of talking to someone when you show up at a location is to get the quests for that location, not to establish who the PC or decide how you want the world to be. There will be decisions but it won't be about decisions.

It's too early to say that, man. Reminder: The first 15 minutes of Fallout were about fighting your way out of a rat cave.

 

[Davaris]

Someone mentioned Facade ( http://www.interactivestory.net/ ) earlier. If InXile would have enough time to do something like that, then when it comes to dialog, that would be some awesome (and genuinely next-gen) shit.

That is like linking to Sumotori Dreams in a thread about a fighting game kickstarter man.

No, it's even worse.:D My point that it would be awesome if they did it still stands, though.

I found Facade pretty inspirational as well.

 

[EG]

It's not your mouth. It's your characters' mouth.

Same goddamn difference and you know that's what I meant.

No, I'm starting to get the impression some of you don't want to play a character, you want to play yourselves. The difference is one can be accounted for by the writing staff, the other can't.

Think of it this way: You are playing a PnP and the game master not only gives you options, but tells you exactly what your character will say. Doesn't sound like much fun.

But it isn't a table-top game (something I've never experienced, by the way): There is no game master (like as not, the game itself doesn't count as one); there are no other players; and, your responses are limited to a very specific set of possibilities.

Perhaps a good comparison of keywords to fully written dialog is comparing a point-form outline to a fully-realized novel. (Mind, the comparison isn't quite fair, as we'll have responses, at least.)

 

[Gozma]

...

So . . . dialog was never good, but for Fallout.

The Decline has it right.

The intent behind the keywords won't matter in the game, because the game is going to run on, "Shut up, it's an oldschool RPG" logic. Oldschool like Wasteland or Gold Box, not oldschool like Fallout. Like the point of talking to someone when you show up at a location is to get the quests for that location, not to establish who the PC or decide how you want the world to be. There will be decisions but it won't be about decisions.

It's too early to say that, man. Reminder: The first 15 minutes of Fallout were about fighting your way out of a rat cave.

I feel weird that other people weren't presuming that from the outset. I had thought they were making, you know, Wasteland 2. Wasteland has plenty of writing, but it isn't about the "player character experience"

It's like in Super Mario Brothers, you go to the right. In Wasteland, you go to areas and do quests. That's the game.

 

[Davaris]

Perhaps a good comparison of keywords to fully written dialog is comparing a point-form outline to a fully-realized novel. (Mind, the comparison isn't quite fair, as we'll have responses, at least.)

I have been dissatisfied with sentence based options, since I played around with Facade and saw what is possible. However I am not fully satisfied with the keyword system shown in Wasteland 2 either, because as you say, it is roughly the same thing as full dialogue options, but without the richness.

The Facade way is the future IMO, but it is a whole other ball park. Facade is out of date now, but there is cutting edge Chatbot technology that can do it.

 

[tuluse]

I have yet to see a chatbot that can even understand pronouns being used to reference the last thing I wrote. So meh until then.

 

[Infinitron]

I feel weird that other people weren't presuming that from the outset. I had thought they were making, you know, Wasteland 2. Wasteland has plenty of writing, but it isn't about the "player character experience"

It's like in Super Mario Brothers, you go to the right. In Wasteland, you go to areas and do quests. That's the game.

Wasteland 2 script: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-discussion-thread.74337/page-81#post-2363331

 

[Davaris]

I have yet to see a chatbot that can even understand pronouns being used to reference the last thing I wrote. So meh until then.

Try this one out.

https://apps.facebook.com/talking-angela/

 

[SuicideBunny]

Someone mentioned Facade ( http://www.interactivestory.net/ ) earlier. If InXile would have enough time to do something like that, then when it comes to dialog, that would be some awesome (and genuinely next-gen) shit.

dear gods below, no. facade was terrible and only interesting on paper.

This is the shittiest argument to support Keywords LARPer.

any full sentence you can select in a computer rpg dialogue is pure larping unless it has been generated based on your character skills and stats. you can lessen the larping involved by writing everything the player can say twice or thrice and make the set he gets to chose from dependent on stats (low int dialogue in arcanum and fallout for example) and tie in stat and skill checks, but in the end you still have dialogue that is tied to a certain role that has little to no relation to the character's stats, while keywords allow you to have more mechanical freedom like allowing the player to select what skill to check out of a multitude when selecting a keyword in a situation where one is appropriate or having more complex checks piled upon one another and the costs you'll be saving by not having to write everything the player can say explicitly and do so in multiple attribute dependent versions can instead be put into diversifying npc responses like providing more than binary check results.

basically anyone against keywords is a closet larper and in favor of the decline.

 

[Gozma]

I know man! I know about the stack of bound paper! My analysis is made in full knowledge

 

[Infinitron]

I know man! I know about the stack of bound paper! My analysis is made in full knowledge

'k.

You might be right that Wasteland 2 won't have Fallout's level of navel-gazing, but I don't think it's gonna be exactly "going from area to area and getting quests" either.

 

[Gozma]

I didn't mean it to be insulting. God knows I played enough Gold Box games but that's how they boil down, even if there are 30 journal entries in the area too.

 

[Quigs]

I know man! I know about the stack of bound paper! My analysis is made in full knowledge

'k.

You might be right that Wasteland 2 won't have Fallout's level of navel-gazing, but I don't think it's gonna be exactly "going from area to area and getting quests" either.

The best part is that's not the script, that's the paragraph book.

 

[Infinitron]

I know man! I know about the stack of bound paper! My analysis is made in full knowledge

'k.

You might be right that Wasteland 2 won't have Fallout's level of navel-gazing, but I don't think it's gonna be exactly "going from area to area and getting quests" either.

The best part is that's not the script, that's the paragraph book.

It's the "design docs".

Brian Fargo ‏@BrianFargo
Reactive.. Reactive... Reactive. That is the mantra we have and are focused on with the Wasteland 2 design.

 

[Captain Shrek]

any full sentence you can select in a computer rpg dialogue is pure larping unless it has been generated based on your character skills and stats.

yeah. That is true if one is illiterate. Seriously, suicide bunny you need to understand that if the sentence READS that way it means that the developer intended it and it is NOT being made a special secret meaning out of by me.

 

[Quigs]

Cool picture just the same.

I wonder if the paragraph book added anything to the experience? Obviously it was originally due to technical limitations, but being forced to stop clicking at everything, and just opening up a book, reading print... I dunno. I think some games could benefit by sack tapping ADD in some manner.

 

[SuicideBunny]

Seriously, suicide bunny you need to understand that if the sentence READS that way it means that the developer intended it and it is NOT being made a special secret meaning out of by me.

'cept bad writing will leave you guessing at writer intent behind full sentences as well as deliver a completely irrational (to you, because you didn't guess proper intent) npc response. it may be easier to fuck up keywords in that regard but they also have way more actual rpg potential (even if it doesn't seem like wl2 will fully utilize that). there's a reason why properly written full sentences utilize tags like [lie] to make guessing of intent behind a sentence easier and you can do something similar with keywords by adding simple punctuation to clarify if something is meant as a statement or question, for example (or better yet make it a modifier you get to choose rather than something preset).

btw, larping vs proper roleplaying isn't so much about pretending (after all that's synonymous with roleplaying) but more about the shift away from character statistics to player twitch skills. larping is to pnp what akshun rpgs are to crpgs.

 

[Burning Bridges]

What's the hivemind's thoughts on preordering this? Is it acceptable to wait until the game comes out to buy it? I'm on the fence here.

I was too young to figure Wasteland 1 out, but I did have it, thanks to an amazing Interplay CD. (Played the shit out of Castle and Star Trek.)

People who pledged for the kickstarter (and most of us did that anyway), have already pre-ordered the game. At the moment I don't think it's making a huge difference if people pre order or buy on release. But I also remember Brian said ultimately the game will sell for a LOT more than 15 bucks, so if you already decided that you want the game, you could order now when it's cheaper.

 

[hiver]

I guess you will be doing your talkin by deeds rather then words.

Actions speak louder than words. amirite or amirite?

 

[Roguey]

guize remember all the well-written full dialogue lines that were in toee and soz

Truly worth the effort.