Incline Warhammer 40,000 Lore Thread

[CthuluIsSpy]

Why not both? A Dwarven corporation who treat contracts and the law with pride and honor to an excessive degree.
Imagine it :
> Be necron lord
> Wake up after short 1000 year nap to find short human mutants on my world
> Fuckers give me an eviction notice, telling me that I'm squatting on their land because I failed to fill out paperwork declaring myself as the world's rightful owner in time
> Vaporize them
> They come back with a law suit accusing me of damages to company property
> The lawsuit is written on a power hammer that they hit me in my metal crotch with
> It didn't hurt, but it was mildly insulting. Fucking primitives.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

One example of a recent slow-and-subtle change I think I'm noticing, is the tendency away from "natural mutation" toward conscious "genetic engineering".

I remember the Philverse fanfic suggested that any stable abhuman races were engineered. The nobility are a stealth abhuman race, having enhanced but subtle psychic ability to know who to trust, which is why they are able to maintain control for many thousands of years (depending on whether you assume the entire imperium runs on feudalism or not).

Votann so far feel a bit generic to me, but on the plus side, they are a blank slate, with potential to become something as deep as Orks and Eldar, given some more thought. I'm hoping that is exactly what will happen in future Codecies, the way Necrons changed between 3rd and 5th - a "correction" in this case, a tonal shift, away from Leagues being like corporations aethetically, I hope, to something more like a violent honour culture.

Why pick one or the other? Why can't different leagues have different aesthetics and values?

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Why not both? A Dwarven corporation who treat contracts with pride and honor to an excessive degree.

That would be excellent actually. I have gut reaction, a "thing", about corporate factions in wargaming and sci-fi. It sometimes blinds me to that angle. I think they tend to be a bland or generic antagonist in a lot of science fiction. For example, I remember saying once, I couldn't imagine someone living and dying for some faceless entity like a corporation, when I was talking about the RPG Starcrawlers.

I can imagine people living and dying for love, honour, kith and kin, for their people, their nation, their family, their high ideals, to bring new knowledge back to their civilization, to reach enlightenment, to explore, or survive. As long as contracts are treated with pride and honour because the Squats have a complicated Klingon-like culture, a sense of duty, obligation, a code of honour, that could work well. I just wouldn't want cyberpunk like "corporate entities", or corporate aethetics, to be the foremost aspect of them, like as if Wayland-Yutani was their entire society, or being. Business is inherently transitory, profit can come and go, but honour is eternal.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Why not both? A Dwarven corporation who treat contracts with pride and honor to an excessive degree.

That would be excellent actually. I have gut reaction, a "thing", about corporate factions in wargaming and sci-fi. It sometimes blinds me to that angle. I think they tend to be a bland or generic antagonist in a lot of science fiction. For example, I remember saying once, I couldn't imagine someone living and dying for some faceless entity like a corporation, when I was talking about the RPG Starcrawlers.

I can imagine people living and dying for love, honour, kith and kin, for their people, their nation, their family, their high ideals, to bring new knowledge back to their civilization, to reach enlightenment, to explore, or survive. As long as contracts are treated with pride and honour because the Squats have a complicated Klingon-like culture, a sense of duty, obligation, a code of honour, that could work well. I just wouldn't want cyberpunk like "corporate entities", or corporate aethetics, to be the foremost aspect of them, like as if Wayland-Yutani was their entire society, or being. Business is inherently transitory, profit can come and go, but honour is eternal.

A corporate army works if their armies consist entirely of mercenaries, robots and slave clones. E.g. House Ordos.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

A question for all of you (albiet an old one): If you wanted a new faction/race to appear in 40K, what would you pick? For me, one more Xenos race would be a good counter-balance to the abundance of human miniatures. Probably make the Hrud the final major Xenos threat, as they are widespread enough. The Skaven of 40K? I think there are already too many human factions. Barring that, maybe chaos versions of an existing culture, i.e. Chaos Squats or Chaos Eldar.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Interex. I never liked that the IoM was the only major human faction. Even warhammer fantasy had Kislev, Cathay and Arabia, and that made for a more interesting world.
T'au really should have been humans. They could have been the setting's version of the Red Blok from AT-43.

 

[lightbane]

Don't trust even the basic assumptions of what happened in the "Dark Age of Technology" and "Age of Strife". Not even fundamentals like a war between man and machine. I think people should take every claim about the era as provisional,

Agreed. The reasons for the downfall keep changing. Now some argue humies themselves are to blame, instead of eldar and Chaos being to blame for everything.

To interpret this, the usual fan assumption, the implication of this speculative tidbit, about the "Men of Gold" creating the "Men of Stone",

Ah, I read that one being thrown around lately. Sounds like the new plot-twist, like that one stating that humies are Men of Stone and not the "real" humans of yore. Shame that doesn't change anything.

, the way Necrons changed between 3rd and 5th - a "correction" in this cas

correction? Don't you mean downgrade? They went from creepy unspeakable robo-horrors to Tomb Kings in space.

A question for all of you (albiet an old one): If you wanted a new faction/race to appear in 40K, what would you pick? For me, one more Xenos race would be a good counter-balance to the abundance of human miniatures. Probably make the Hrud the final major Xenos threat, as they are widespread enough. The Skaven of 40K? I think there are already too many human factions. Barring that, maybe chaos versions of an existing culture, i.e. Chaos Squats or Chaos Eldar.

The Hrud, they're the Skaven in all but name.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

If you wanted a new faction/race to appear in 40K, what would you pick?

It's too late for this now with how the lore developed, but a Renegade Space Marine faction would've been great. Basically stuff like the Empire of Iron, Klostra and the Carrion Realms (and the Red Corsairs beyond that) with Astartes supremacists ruling over enslaved human worlds, disdaining the Imperium and Chaos alike while nevertheless engaging with the latter when it suits them. Naturally, the Iron Warriors and the Night Lords would've formed the backbone of such a faction while also accepting converts, being the renegade equivalent to Abaddon's Black Legion.

 

[Mangoose]

I still think Votann are a bland, Age of Shitmar esque poor replacement for Squats. I liked them being Biker Dwarves. And I think that concept could be salvaged without erasing that identity.

This is my hope - that they will 'Make Squats Dwarven Again'.

I'm hoping for novels, longer beards, the "Great Dataslate of Grudges", Dwarf on Ork wars in the dark, berserkers, "delving too greedily and too deep", etc. Just as the Eldar are space Elves, the Squats need an infusion of ideals from their fantasy kin, to give them some identity, rather than just being "short humans".

The first miniatures had armor that I didn't like, but maybe they have gradually been making each miniature release more Dwarven? Hearthguard have more angular armour with decorative details. The new Yeagirs have moved further away from the rounded Warrior armour, toward leather greatcoats. It's the lore though, that is the lacking element. All the potential is there, names or cultural elements are present, like their society being dominated by Norse concepts, so they just need to lean in a little, maybe have them be more of a violent drinking culture, read the sagas.

The mini styling isn't quite there yet, it doesn't need to be a silly characature, but could do with being closer to this:

In my cynicism GW is just trying to sell new minis XD

 

[Mangoose]

I'm sorry but having read through some of legal documents from GW's lawsuits against other IPs killed my trust lol.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

As I've said, we should make new IPs to explore the ideas we want to see explored. GW having a de facto monopoly isn't good for the medium's creativity. As much as One Page Rules is a better game and better product, it's still a straight clone of GW's IPs for the most part. Even if the lore is different for legal reasons, OPR is still designed for aesthetic compatibility with GW armies.

I'm burnt out on medieval fantasy because it's oversaturated and interchangeable. I feel the same way about tabletop gaming, both roleplaying and miniatures, for the same reason. They're arguably worse because of the monopolies further reducing creativity.

 

[Mangoose]

As I've said, we should make new IPs to explore the ideas we want to see explored. GW having a de facto monopoly isn't good for the medium's creativity.

Well especially the way they do it. It's like cartoon evil level. Fuck em lol.

Edit: BTW this means GW will sue your IP lmao.

Like I said.. it's evil monopoly. Bezos level.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

As I've said, we should make new IPs to explore the ideas we want to see explored. GW having a de facto monopoly isn't good for the medium's creativity.

Well especially the way they do it. It's like cartoon evil level. Fuck em lol.

Edit: BTW this means GW will sue your IP lmao.

Like I said.. it's evil monopoly. Bezos level.

Exactly. GW even sued Blizzard, with absolute zero legitimate grounds to do so, and forced them to make changes to their games that were completely unwarranted. Ever wondered why the Starship Troopers style brain bugs were in the first game but never showed up again? That's because GW sued them for it, despite it obviously drawing inspiration from Starship Troopers which GW doesn't even own. GW are assholes who bully other people over the stupidest shit. But it doesn't fly anymore. GW renamed all their armies to fake latin once it became untenable to keep suing people for nonsense reasons.

Just the fear of frivolous lawsuits has kept many creatives from pursuing their passions. One of the reasons why you don't see crpgs influenced by Bloodlines is because the copyright holder back in the day sued Sony for making a half-life mod called Underworld: Bloodlines. The lawsuit claimed there were 80 points of similarity, although Sony released a counter claim that these were all frivolous (and these were frivolous). The suit was settled out of court, which many take to mean that the suit won when that's complete nonsense. Now people think the suit was legitimate and that they'll get sued if they try to make a vampire-themed urban fantasy crpg.

It's bullying, it's stupid, and it's destroying our pop culture creativity. Fuck these corpos and I hope they go bankrupt.

 

[Mangoose]

As I've said, we should make new IPs to explore the ideas we want to see explored. GW having a de facto monopoly isn't good for the medium's creativity.

Well especially the way they do it. It's like cartoon evil level. Fuck em lol.

Edit: BTW this means GW will sue your IP lmao.

Like I said.. it's evil monopoly. Bezos level.

Exactly. GW even sued Blizzard, with absolute zero legitimate grounds to do so, and forced them to make changes to their games that were completely unwarranted. Ever wondered why the Starship Troopers style brain bugs were in the first game but never showed up again? That's because GW sued them for it, despite it obviously drawing inspiration from Starship Troopers which GW doesn't even own. GW are assholes who bully other people over the stupidest shit. But it doesn't fly anymore. GW renamed all their armies to fake latin once it became untenable to keep suing people for nonsense reasons.

Just the fear of frivolous lawsuits has kept many creatives from pursuing their passions. One of the reasons why you don't see crpgs influenced by Bloodlines is because the copyright holder back in the day sued Sony for making a half-life mod called Underworld: Bloodlines. The lawsuit claimed there were 80 points of similarity, although Sony released a counter claim that these were all frivolous (and these were frivolous). The suit was settled out of court, which many take to mean that the suit won when that's complete nonsense. Now people think the suit was legitimate and that they'll get sued if they try to make a vampire-themed urban fantasy crpg.

It's bullying, it's stupid, and it's destroying our pop culture creativity. Fuck these corpos and I hope they go bankrupt.

Hear hear

 

[RaggleFraggle]

You know, I have some ideas for alternatives to 40k lore if anyone is interested. OPR already covers the clone territory, so I wanted to do something different and more specialized.

 

[Borelli]

I generally agree that Imperium's size makes the lore worse, and having more human factions would be better.
Like if horus heresy was more of a horus rebellion with every SM chapter having its own state while the imperium plays the role of eastern roman empire, greatly reduced in size but still strong.
You could still have some loyalist chapter, some chaos ones, but the rest would be what we now call renegades.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I'm not gonna make suggestions for 40k, but I will make suggestions for original projects.

One idea I had was for a space western setting. Humanity is divided into multiple colonies (with their own militias) that are loosely united under a Confederacy, but they still jockey for power and engage in skirmishes, trade wars, and proxy wars. Their culture includes various pastiches of historical lifestyles, like Napoleonic ship captain, Japanese samurai warrior, Apache Indian tracker, Victorian socialite, ancient Roman soldier, American cowboy trader, medieval feudal knight, Taoist monk, African tribal shaman, Viking raider, etc. for flavor. I really hate how bland humans are in typical scifi, so I aimed to address that here. There are also cyborgs, synthetics, uplifted animal hybrids, psychic powers, mutant superpowers, genemods, mech suits, and other scifi tropes. They're also extremely environmentally destructive, to the degree that they have mobile refineries to save on construction costs, will crack whole planetoids Dead Space-style, and let an equivalent of Tiberium run amuck because it makes mining easier, which eventually brings them into conflict with some space hippies down the line. There are other alien civilizations in the setting, two of which enter a war with humanity, but I thought it would be prudent to just focus on the humans in my initial description.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

I wish I could remember all the science fiction wargames that I've come across on the internet, but it all gets jumbled together, and I've never made a list anywhere. Since Raggle is talking about alternative lore to Warhammer 40,000, here are some, broken down by fictional setting (I'm sure there are many I'm missing):

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Warhammer 40,000 / Warhammer 40,000: Kill Team / Battlefleet Gothic / Space Hulk / Necromunda / Gorkamorka / Epic 40,000 / Adeptus Titanicus / Aeronautica Imperialis / Warhammer: The Horus Heresy
by Games Workshop

The carrion Emperor sits on his throne. He is master of a million worlds. In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war. Most of these games are in the 28mm scale. Warhammer 40,000 is a full wargame in 28mm. Kill Team, Necromunda and Gorkamorka are skirmish games, using the same 28mm miniatures. Epic 40,000 is on the 6mm (huge warfare) scale. Battlefleet Gothic covers capital ship space combat. Adeptus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis cover Titan-sized mechs and aerial warfare respectively. The Horus Heresy is a 28mm prequel set 10,000 years before Warhammer 40,000.

Factions: Imperium of Man, Eldar Craftworlds, Eldar Exodites, Dark Eldar, Leagues of Votann, Ork Empires, Necron Dynasties, Tau Empire, Tyranid Hive-Mind, Realm of Chaos

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BattleTech / BattleTech: Alpha Strike
by FASA Corporation, currently Catalyst Game Labs

1000 years after the first space flights, humanity's diaspora has developed the Inner Sphere, a region of space containing hundreds of systems. The classic giant mech wargame that spawned the long-running Mechwarrior series of mech sim games on PC. You customise different mechs, adding different guns for different situations, and act as a mercinary for the human political powers that have spread across space. It is quite hard science fiction with only human political entities. The different far-future states have adopted elements of feudal dynastic monarchy, meaning that mechs are often inherited as a knight might inhert arms and armour.

Factions: Federated Suns, Draconis Combine, Lyran Alliance, Capellan Confederation, Free Worlds League

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Star Fleet Battles
by Amarillo Design Bureau

Once, it was one of the most widely played wargames I hear, and influencial. Star Fleet Battles was a Star Trek wargame created to simulate fleet engagements, but effectively got frozen at the point of Original Series era of Star Trek lore. It has since diverged into essentially it's own Star Trek universe based on the Original Series, with some empires that were created only for this setting, such as the Hydran Kingdom. I think there is a lot of really in-depth customisation of miniature loadouts, down to shield syetems and torpedoes. Modern companies have acquired the licence in recent years, so there was a FASA wargame extension of their Star Trek RPG, and there is currently an X-Wing style game called Star Trek: Attack Wing.

Factions: United Federation of Planets, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire, Gorn Hegemony, Hydran Kingdom

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Star Wars: Legion / Star Wars: X-Wing / Star Wars: Armada
by Fantasy Flight Games

A galaxy-spanning civilization plunged into war by the machinations of Dark Lords. Fantasy Flight Games probably emerged as the most serious competitor to Games Workshop. They have a similar 28mm scale Star Wars tabletop wargame, Star Wars: Legion. They have an Aeronautica Imperialis type game, Star Wars: X-Wing. They have a capital-ship combat game, Star Wars: Armada. Additionally another company, Atomic Mass games, has recently published a skirmish scale game that can be played with only 4-5 miniatures, Star Wars: Shatterpoint. It's tempting, but I don't want to burn myself out on miniatures, Warhammer 40,000 is my area of focus.

Factions: Galactic Empire, Rebel Alliance, Confederacy of Independent Systems, Galactic Republic

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Infinity
by Corvus Belli

An anime-inspired but relatively realistic aesthetic. A post-cyberpunk space opera setting with fairly hard science factions. Infinity is probably the next most popular sci-fi skirmish scale game outside of Warhammer 40,000 and Star Wars. The major factions are based on pastiches of real-world cultures, as is often the case in science fiction wargaming factions. The PanOceania faction represent a noblebright democratic ideal. The Yu Jing more Asia-Pacific inspired. Ariadna is a partially French-inspired chivalric faction, incorporating elements of European noble ideals.

Factions: PanOceania, Yu Jing, Ariadna, Haqqislam, Nomads, Combined Army, ALEPH, Tohaa

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Dropzone Commander / Dropfleet Commander
By Firestorm Games

Set in 2670 AD. An epic scale wargame about the battle of humanity vs an alien force invading the colonies of humanity as well as a battlefleet scale space wargame in the cold void. The minis look really nice on a table next to dense urban buildings, as it tends to be played. The space vessels also look very cool. It seems to be fairly hard science fiction, with human cities looking relatively like modern cities on Earth, similar to something like BattleTech.

Factions: United Colonies of Mankind, The Scourge, Post-Human Republic, Shaltari, The Resistance

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Deadzone
by Mantic Games

Basically someone created a Warhammer 40,000 clone, I imagine probably marketed at a). people who want to pay less for their miniatures, b). people who like old Warhammer 40,000 design aesthetics, c). people pissed off at Games Workshop for their business practices or management of lore or changes in rules. I don't know if any former GW people were involved, but wouldn't be suprised. It's like Pathfinder to D&D. Marauders look exactly like Orks from 1st edition and 2nd edition, complete with silly grins, but are meant to be "mutants". Likewise the Veer-Myn are Skaven in space.

Factions: Enforcers (Space Marines), Forge Father (Squats), Veer-Myn (Space Skaven), Asterians (Eldar), Marauders (Orks)

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Blkout
by Blkout

Set on a world that is humanity's only colony in space; Abol. A new one that I don't know much about yet, but seems to again have cool enough miniatures. It's operating in skirmish territory, in the same territory as Warhammer 40,000: Kill Team from what I can tell. The theory is that people can get into skirmish games with fewer miniatures. Again though the lore is pretty generic so far, as I can see, as you have the usual pastiches of some Earth cultures extended into the future. For example the Manticor are formed from "Eastern Bloc" nations, according to their description. So expect stereotypes born of the now 30-years dead Soviet Union, like "heavy armour".

Factions: Manticor, Harlow Kinetic Solutions, United Nations

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Steel Rift
by Death Ray Designs

Set in the near future, in the wake of crippling solar flares. Looks like these guys are going for the Battletech market. Battletech itself has undergone a revival in the last few years thanks to 3D printers I hear, and is beginning to return to being a healthy widely-played game. Steel Rift it seems will present an alternative for people wanting to play a giant mech game, giving three options: Battletech, Steel Rift and Adeptus Titanicus. Again I'm not sure about the low-alien, low-space, corporation-heavy, setting (I find these things can be bland). It can be good if handled well, or outlined well then left to the players to write their own fiction.

Facitons: Freelance, Corporate, Authority

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They all sound interesting. You know me, I love space. I find more science fiction settings always welcome. Some of the lore sounds promising. I think the main risk with anything nowadays is potential for wokeness. Independent efforts, perhaps simply giving people rules, letting them 3D print models bespoke, could potentially avoid corporate propaganda. But, science fiction is getting more woke overall, accepting the mass immigration narrative, where citizens are fungible units.

To be stocked in a shop, or to get investment money, likely means accepting the agenda of globalist investors like Blackrock or Vanguard, and I'm not sure how easy it is to start without capital. You might find that a modern setting is more prone to anti-white neoliberal propaganda, than a legacy franchise like Warhammer 40,000, which has 40 years of inertia and momentum to overcome before activists can ruin it.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Capellan Confederation

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Battletech has also gone woke, I hear

You’re also forgetting games like Starship Troopers and AT-43, but they’re dead anyway so I guess it doesn’t matter

 

[Mangoose]

The thing for me is..

I just want to read the good authors from 40k. In other words, I don't really care about the setting. Well, I care about the setting that the author creates within his book but not the 40k setting.

All this is my only real defense for "everything is canon." I have the opinion that the 40k setting provides freedom for such authors. Stuff you can't really do in most IPs because canon is restrictive in terms of creativity.

* Abnett actually is foremost a comics writer - was writing 2000AD, specifically Dredd, for almost a decade before joining GW. He's still writing 2000AD but also has been writing Marvel.. In fact, one of my favorite arcs and one that the MCU was somewhat faithful to Abnett's material. Also, I think that by writing comics, dialogue has to be repartee because you have very limited room for words and you need to be clever to set up a good pace or beat. That is stuff I see a lot in Gaunt's Ghosts.
* And then we all know Graham McNeill quality.. in terms of his Mechanicum and Iron Warriors stuff; not his genero Marines
* Codex has a special love for Chris Wraight and I don't disagree with it. Also, he's newish talent, so that bodes well.
* ADB's older novels that were fully based on an entertaining story. Helsreach, the Night Lords Trilogy, and some subplots like Argel Tal - Kharn - Erebus. Ranges from noble-dark-awesomeness or pretty good comedic banter. Whatever you think about ADB now, you would be missing out on the better things done in the past. I still re-read the Night Lords trilogy all the time... while simply putting out of mind that future products exist lol.

Feel free to mention more recommendations.

That and I believe a product being good on its own merits. Even if part of a trilogy, it needs to stand on its own because each singular movie/book/etc are separate watches. Distinctly separate "experiences" (<- something RLM taught me - everything that really matters comes to the quality of the audience/reader's experience watching the film the first time)

 

[Mangoose]

Infinity
by Corvus Belli

An anime-inspired but relatively realistic aesthetic. A post-cyberpunk space opera setting with fairly hard science factions. Infinity is probably the next most popular sci-fi skirmish scale game outside of Warhammer 40,000 and Star Wars. The major factions are based on pastiches of real-world cultures, as is often the case in science fiction wargaming factions. The PanOceania faction represent a noblebright democratic ideal. The Yu Jing more Asia-Pacific inspired. Ariadna is a partially French-inspired chivalric faction, incorporating elements of European noble ideals.

Factions: PanOceania, Yu Jing, Ariadna, Haqqislam, Nomads, Combined Army, ALEPH, Tohaa
Warhammer 40,000, which has 40 years of inertia and momentum to overcome before activists can ruin it.

Ironically that's selling Infinity short. Not because what you're saying is wrong, but Infinity's overall quality is higher than that because of how good its gameplay is.

It is like playing a Silent Storm game, with overwatch cones adn all.. But one big mechanic Infinity has is that if your opponent's unit sees you move, your opponent can react at the same time. This means that if you try to shoot someone, they can react by shooting you, and there is a stat+roll to decide on initiative between your attack and their reaction. Also it is heavily reliant on all 3 dimensions as well as many ways of using cover.

In fact, the factions themselves are distinct in terms of gameplay style. That's not only good in a gameplay sense - it's kinda like setting up the faction narratives via first setting up the game-style or "war culture." And that (can) leads to an organic setting.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

I just want to read the good authors from 40k. In other words, I don't really care about the setting. Well, I care about the setting that the author creates within his book but not the 40k setting.

I wasn't gonna post about it until I read more, but I just started:

I've had this for years, perhaps decades, but I'm a slow reader. So far, only pages in, it seems great. I always love nautical traditions of military fiction. For a bit of context, Star Trek, which is also very nautical, was inspired by Horatio Hornblower, perhaps the most famous of the great nautical fiction series (along with Jack Aubrey from "Master and Commander"). James T Kirk is essentially Horatio Hornblower, given extreme latitude to fight Revolutionary France The Klingon Empire. So far, it's looking like this is exactly the tradition Gordon Rennie is writing in. I should have read it sooner. There is something about naval tradition that I love.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Stuff you can't really do in most IPs because canon is restrictive in terms of creativity.

Such as? There’s lot of different IPs. Some IPs are pretty flexible and expansive. And you can always make your own.

I really think we need to stop thinking in terms of IPs owned by corporate monopolies and start focusing on reading and writing stories we like. IPs are cancer, I think.

No IP can tell every story. Not unless it’s a multiverse.

 

[Storyfag]

I always love nautical traditions of military fiction. For a bit of context, Star Trek, which is also very nautical, was inspired by Horatio Hornblower, perhaps the most famous of the great nautical fiction series (along with Jack Aubrey from "Master and Commander"). James T Kirk is essentially Horatio Hornblower, given extreme latitude to fight Revolutionary France The Klingon Empire.

I would like to recommend you the (early) Honor Harrington series. If the identical initials didn't give it away, it's Hornblower IN SPHESS. Complete with very thinly veiled stand-ins for Great Britain and various stages of the revolutionary French regime. Very competently done, though, and with twists. I especially enjoy the author providing technobabble that justifies line tactics in 3d, so WALL tactics. Crossing the T remains a thing