Ah, so you also want to retcon WarCraft II. Fair enough.
-
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
Warcraft III: Reforged - now with lowest user metacritic score of all time
- Thread starter Dawkinsfan69
- Start date
-
- Tags
- warcraft
Ah, so you also want to retcon WarCraft II. Fair enough.
Lacrymas
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2015
- Messages
- 18,735
Yeah. I honestly (still) think rebooting the entire franchise is the best thing Blizzard can do with it right now hands down. Make a new RTS with a campaign that retells the WC1 and 2 stories while retconing some stuff in order to better set the stage for further narrative development (and WoW2). They could do only Warcraft 1 of course, but they need to come up with at least a third faction in order to do their signature asymmetric balance thing. It will be a good PR move too.
vota DC
Augur
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2016
- Messages
- 2,320
They should do a dynamic campaign like most of Emperor Battle for Dune where you can even ally with Fremen when playing Harkonnen, without fixed stuff (emperor begin well but at the end tleilaxu are always hostile and huge worm Is always the final boss). For example Ogres can be allied since Warcraft I or still enemies even during Warcraft II.
Also underground like Armies of Exigo.
Lacrymas
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2015
- Messages
- 18,735
They could do that, yeah, but I was mostly thinking about multiplayer with the 3 factions thing. Going back to orcs vs humans, while cool, prestigious, and pedigreed, isn't really the atmosphere in which asymmetric balance can flourish and the temptation to just mirror the factions like in 1 and 2 to cut costs would be great. They can also pull a Starcraft 2 and make super long campaigns for each of the Warcraft RTSes up to now that get gradually released like the expansions to Starcraft 2. I might prefer that actually, depending on the gameplay. By going that route, they can introduce all 4 of the factions at once, like the 3 in SC2.
I'd keep the orcs more warlock-y, rather than shamanic, and less savage in the sense of loincloths and spears, but more bloodthirsty and warmongering. That would have quite a lot of effects on the other factions as well, the tauren would be less likely to join them en masse for example. Which means they might get conquered by the centaurs, which in turn get slaughtered by the undead later on, making undead tauren a group within the undead instead of within the orcs.
I also think a WoW2 would need at least 3 factions, not 2, so a general restructuring of the race dynamics/relationships is a must.
I'd keep the orcs more warlock-y, rather than shamanic, and less savage in the sense of loincloths and spears, but more bloodthirsty and warmongering. That would have quite a lot of effects on the other factions as well, the tauren would be less likely to join them en masse for example. Which means they might get conquered by the centaurs, which in turn get slaughtered by the undead later on, making undead tauren a group within the undead instead of within the orcs.
I also think a WoW2 would need at least 3 factions, not 2, so a general restructuring of the race dynamics/relationships is a must.
Last edited:
I don't think Blizzard will reboot the Warcraft universe anytime soon, especially as WoW is still going strong (not as strong as its heyday, but it's still the biggest paying MMO, right?). Because while Blizzard is actively developing new content for WoW, they wouldn't want to confuse their average fans of what's going on in that universe. And even if WoW was dead/in maintenance mode, Blizzard would be still leery of going back and redoing all the lore, again because of the risk of angering the fans, especially going back to Warcraft 1 & 2: at this point it'd be easier to create something new
racofer
Thread Incliner
I hope you guys have phones, because the real Warcraft game is coming:
Perkel
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
- Messages
- 16,269
Seems like perfect fit. Retarded game for retarded public.
SerratedBiz
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2009
- Messages
- 4,143
Frank Capicoli
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2018
- Messages
- 7,413
Already been a year huh.
TLDR modders have done more work to fix up Warcraft 3 than Blizzard ever did. Truly the Bethesda of the RTS genre.
Hi everyone!
Just would like to let everyone know the status of WC3 right now. in the wake of Reforged's release and 1 year anniversary, despite Blizzard's lackadaisical approach to it, we the community are still enjoying WarCraft 3 in 2021. Thanks to content creators and the W3Champions mod team that has been ramping up efforts for WC3's continued survival, our passion for the game continues strongly.
The bad: 1) Blizzard lost most if not all of their classic development team that was administering updates to Warcraft: Reforged and they left the project in an incomplete state. We haven't gotten updates from them in over half a year. Key features that were part of original WC3 are still missing, such as a ranked system, profiles, clans, automated tournaments, and Battle.net features like /stats, /friend add, and more. 2) At Blizzconline, Blizzard didn't mention the word Reforged at all. They did mention "WC3" in reference to the esports that dreamhack/ESL are doing, but they didn't mention WC3 Reforged development at all.
The good: 1) Nearly all of the games you see here on YouTube are made possible thanks to W3C, with them offering better servers, better ping for most players especially from South Korea, Brazil and Peru and other South American countries, Russia and many more. The 4on4 RT games on W3C have almost no griefing (backstabbing or afk'ing etc.). The MMR and matchmaking are better. The game quality in 1on1 is better and more competitive. 2) W3C team has already re-introduced profiles, icons, ranked ladder, stats, stats analysis, an improved battle.net UI interface, and all you have to do is download the launcher and use it, essentially using a modded version of the game. You can still play on regular BNet even if you get this app, it's just all around an improvement. 3) Now there's even automated tournaments coming (currently on the W3Champions PTR, a test server). Just like we used to have back in early WC3! It's pretty awesome.
The future: There is still a chance that Blizzard restores some of the lost features that WC3 suffered after the horrible (and deserved) release of Reforged with its Metacritic score of 0.5/10. Whether they'd be as good as the W3Champions features remains to be seen, of course. Although it seemed like Reforged is totally abandoned by Blizzard, they *MAY* still come back to it. Vicarious Visions is development studio within Activision that got moved into Blizzard entirely to work on remasters. “According to Bloomberg, issues with the development of Warcraft III: Reforged made Blizzard reconsider the teams it had developing games moving forward, with its classic games “Team 1” being pulled off the project and replaced by a division that is also handling Diablo 4. Among the developers also working on that project includes the Vicarious Visions team.”
Just would like to let everyone know the status of WC3 right now. in the wake of Reforged's release and 1 year anniversary, despite Blizzard's lackadaisical approach to it, we the community are still enjoying WarCraft 3 in 2021. Thanks to content creators and the W3Champions mod team that has been ramping up efforts for WC3's continued survival, our passion for the game continues strongly.
The bad: 1) Blizzard lost most if not all of their classic development team that was administering updates to Warcraft: Reforged and they left the project in an incomplete state. We haven't gotten updates from them in over half a year. Key features that were part of original WC3 are still missing, such as a ranked system, profiles, clans, automated tournaments, and Battle.net features like /stats, /friend add, and more. 2) At Blizzconline, Blizzard didn't mention the word Reforged at all. They did mention "WC3" in reference to the esports that dreamhack/ESL are doing, but they didn't mention WC3 Reforged development at all.
The good: 1) Nearly all of the games you see here on YouTube are made possible thanks to W3C, with them offering better servers, better ping for most players especially from South Korea, Brazil and Peru and other South American countries, Russia and many more. The 4on4 RT games on W3C have almost no griefing (backstabbing or afk'ing etc.). The MMR and matchmaking are better. The game quality in 1on1 is better and more competitive. 2) W3C team has already re-introduced profiles, icons, ranked ladder, stats, stats analysis, an improved battle.net UI interface, and all you have to do is download the launcher and use it, essentially using a modded version of the game. You can still play on regular BNet even if you get this app, it's just all around an improvement. 3) Now there's even automated tournaments coming (currently on the W3Champions PTR, a test server). Just like we used to have back in early WC3! It's pretty awesome.
The future: There is still a chance that Blizzard restores some of the lost features that WC3 suffered after the horrible (and deserved) release of Reforged with its Metacritic score of 0.5/10. Whether they'd be as good as the W3Champions features remains to be seen, of course. Although it seemed like Reforged is totally abandoned by Blizzard, they *MAY* still come back to it. Vicarious Visions is development studio within Activision that got moved into Blizzard entirely to work on remasters. “According to Bloomberg, issues with the development of Warcraft III: Reforged made Blizzard reconsider the teams it had developing games moving forward, with its classic games “Team 1” being pulled off the project and replaced by a division that is also handling Diablo 4. Among the developers also working on that project includes the Vicarious Visions team.”
TLDR modders have done more work to fix up Warcraft 3 than Blizzard ever did. Truly the Bethesda of the RTS genre.
Bigg Boss
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2012
- Messages
- 7,528
This is usually the case though.
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2012
- Messages
- 1,806
And not a word in all of that about restoring the custom game scene to how it was before blizz fucked it all up, sadly modders can only do so much to clean up blizz’s mess.
Justicar
Dead game
MY only question is who the fuck plays braindead mobile games? Who the fuck pays for this shit?
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2015
- Messages
- 5,965
hey old man if you don't know mobile games has been the biggest ROI for gaming in a while, that's why everybody is making one
things like FPS, MOBA, F2P MMO get a very big resurgence in East Asia (China, Korea), India, and South America (Brazil is a notable market) and in a lesser capacity, SEA, through mobile gaming. Japanese also has a very strong mobile game market altho it is more geared to the domestic gacha games.
People splurged ungoldy amount of money to mobile games even in USA and EU altho the games which is popular in the west is ofc of different genre.
It's easy to circlejerk about how bad mobile gaming is but it's been one of the biggest money maker for gaming industry. Do you really think corp executives are stupid enough to invest without projecting a good return on investment?
Go read the development cost and the return of investment on this mobile gaming, there are more than few reports about that
fork
Guest
It boils down to most humans are cretins. Just take a look outside, turn on the TV, browse youtube's or reddit's trending. Look which sports are popular, which politicians/parties get votes, what kind of music is popular, modern art, architecture etc. The list is fucking endless. Even Codex is getting shittier by the year.
Mobile gaming really isn't so bad compared to what else is going on in the world.
Demo.Graph
Liturgist
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2018
- Messages
- 1,194
To add to what you've said.
Last year I got interested in an online eurofarm called Forge of Empires. Now it's aimed at mobile audience with main target platform being tablets and smartphones. It's a very curious thing from a game-design point of view.
At a first glance it presents itself as a kinda clone of Civ but on a single city scope (it even has a tech-tree with a design resembling civs 5 and 6). The premise is you guide a city through the ages and fight and trade for it to prosper. It has a hex-based combat, resource trading system, daily quests and seasonal events - basically, typical stuff from WoW and other MMOG integrated into a kinda strategic city-builder engine.
But at the core of it all it's a casino in disguise. If player wants to develop fast or try and reach the top of the ladder, he has two options.
First option is to spend a humongous time in the game at predefined intervals. All player actions ingame are limited by real-time cooldowns. To play optimally you have to log in at least once a day or better every 8 hours or so. And you'd need to spend at least 10 months to rush through the tech tree because local research points trickle very slowly. And many players don't even try to do it, because it's possible to spend research moneyz on random stuff to kinda turn your city into a functional clone of a lvl 20 twink in WoW. And be all cool kicking noobs.
Second option is to spend real money buying ingame resources to boost yourself. But there're three catches about it.
The first one is that you need to spend a lot of money to propel yourself to about a month forward - like hundreds to thousands of dollars.
The second is that resources that you've bought are first have to be passed through casino-like mechanics: there're ingame analogs to wheel of fortune, shell game and other lotteries. So you can't get a predefined result with your payment. But you have a chance to get "more than your money worth".
And the third catch is that the most powerful ingame assets are available only during seasonal events, so you get a "seasonal sale urgency feeling". And the balance is made in a way that pushes you to pay a little bit of money to get the main seasonal prize (or log in every 8 hours to optimally milk the event). So, say, if you'd spent several weeks doing an event and then had some family business and missed your session, you either miss out on your goal (and weeks of your efforts!) or spend, say, meagre 2 to 5 bucks to get a chance to get your treasured picture of a building or a new avatar.
And it works. People play these games for years and keep paying. One of the players I spoke to had literally said "I spent here a thousand days and at least as many dollars". All of that is sometimes justified by liberal comparisons to a time spent in cinemas and a cost of tickets.
I dug a bit and found out that these games often get most of their income from a small number of "whales" - rich pops who can afford to pay aforementioned thousands of dollars for ingame benefits to feel themselves victors even while they "rest". And the majority of players that had spent a lot of time in the game, turned it into their daily habit and play as random mooks who try to overcome overwhelming odds (represented by whales) and sometimes treat themselves to a small gift or two.
It's disgusting, really. But it works. It brings money to management and jewelopers. These are basically virtual casinos that often go below the radar of western and muslim legal systems. And asians simply don't care.
edit: formatting and typos
Last edited:
MWaser
Cipher
The mechanics of monetary exploitation which you described here are essentially the same in each of those popular mobiles games. The randomness usually is differently representated but also always seems to exist because, I would bet, it increases player investment when it's based on "lootbox-equivalents" than straight pay-for-result structure. And entirely likely it simultaneously is made out to get the players to gain less than advertised as well but with a better promise to keep pushing for the attempts at great success.
The (successful) mobile games also always have the same general structure regardless, Some kind of long-time progression based, be it cities/ships/spaceships/trade empires/kingdoms/characters/adventure bands/war parties etc. But differently from having a regular game structured with these concepts, they always have to structure the progression mechanics similarly and can just differentiate on the auxillary gameplay structure, but the core structure being based around the slow grind, they all end up essentially fulfilling the same psychological needs in people and there's little desire from them to engage in multiple games of this type.
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2012
- Messages
- 1,806
You underestimate the “social” aspect which sucks people in + the amounts of rich twats who love nothing more then to p2w to dunk on plebs unwilling to spend hundreds to keep up with the content threadmill. So to reinforce what Demo.Graph said.
By social aspect I mean an excuse for people to compare penises with each other, this is why you'll always see mobile games advertising these aspects heavily, whether it be pvp or guilds, the entire point is to get people invested enough they spend money trying to outdo each other. To give a different type of example illustrating this from Demo, One mobile game I tried (at some point I was curious about mobile games and downloaded a bunch of them to see what the fuss was about) was euh...I don't even fucking remember the name, something empire or empire something, and found myself a clan pretty quick since was needed to get anywhere in the game and was immediately faced with a phenemenon I had little prior experience with: chinese gamers.
Now one terrifying aspect of bugman culture is that they don't have the same conception of "fun" as regular human beings like you and I might understand it. When I play a game, If I have to insert money to beat the other person I'm playing against, that's no fun nor would any human consider it "skill", they would find this a shitty way to play games.
Bugmen don't think like this, I forgot the exact phrasing for it but its a chinese saying like "win at all costs" and "everythings fair so long as you win", the end result is the chinese only care about the outcome of a game and any way to get a win is fair in their eyes, they genuinely don't understand the concept of playing just for the sake of it instead of trying to win. So in this game they banded together and had massive international pride where they always wanted to be top of the leader boards and crush non chinese at the game...And this meant they were throwing cash into microntransanctions with wanton disregard, all because china numba wun.
Of course this meant othernon chinese tards wanted to take down the chinese and that involved...buying lots of microtransanctions in order to keep up with the bugmen.
It was a never ending arms race, and I bailed on it without a second thought asap. But this insight into the thinking of bugmen was if nothing else, fascinating from an anthropological pov, and I've subsequently found it repeated within most mobile games I've dabbled in, it might not always be the chinese but there is always going to be some tribalism at play pitting players against each other whilst devs laugh and count the money going in.
Now onto the people who are really supporting this industry.... Rich mofos who wipe their asses with thousand dollar bills. If you didn't know, mobile games is all about fleecing the "whales" who are happy to drop ungodly amounts of money, and to a lesser degree the "dolphins" who spend on the game but not quite to exorbitant amounts (if you spend like 10£ every now and then on a mobile game, congratulations, you are a dolphin) but who are the most numerous. so there is a 3 tier system at work (with freenium players at the bottom of the pole who get dicked by everyone), and among these rich mofos you got everything from saudi princes to business tycoons. Why these lot dabble in mobile games to begin with is a mystery, but I can only assume it relates to flexing on the peasants.
Last edited:
Seethe
Cipher
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2015
- Messages
- 994
This is why they also cheat so much in online gaming.
Justicar
Dead game
![[UCHIHA]XxDarkSasuke420xX](/forums/data/avatars/m/28/28856.jpg?1614816202){kind=avatar}
[UCHIHA]XxDarkSasuke420xX
Prospernaut
picked this game up and am playing through the campaign on hard mode
fucking hell this game's hard AF
no wonder i just played custom maps as a kid
fucking hell this game's hard AF
no wonder i just played custom maps as a kid
Citizen
Guest
Inject MntDew
racofer
Thread Incliner
Should have picked up the Starcraft remaster instead. It is at least as good as the original.
As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.