Decline VR Sickness Rate is 40-70 percent after only 15 minutes

[Gregz]

Dexter

Did you bother to read Naraya's post? I'll trust the expert thanks:

Mr. Baker further explains the VR issue in terms of depth perception where in the eyes are manipulated by the headset into seeing two different image depths (left and right eye displays) into one image. In doing so, there is continuous tension on the eye’s inter-ocular muscles. The eyes are doing double duty getting focus and convergence. Focus and convergence don’t always agree in VR and depending on a person’s tolerance, the brain is trying to decide whether the projected image is a hallucination or not.
https://movietvtechgeeks.com/is-tv-still-a-priority-for-people-moving-into-their-new-home/
We know for a fact that the image isn’t real and we see it for what it is but the inner workings of the brain says it’s an image we’re not actually seeing. Once the brain decides it’s a hallucination, the rest of the body thinks it has ingested something poisonous and the rest is biology.

Apparently my brain is better at recognizing hallucination than the other 30-60%, which is pretty ironic in my case.

You're welcome to keep nursing your buyer's remorse with Renevent though.

 

[Silly Germans]

How do these headsets work for people with glasses ? Do you keep them on or can you adjust the screen for different dioptric values ?

You can install custom lenses in all the major VR headsets. I have these for my Index and I can pop them out in like 30 seconds whenever someone else wants to play.

Thanks, i was wondering how that works in practice.

 

[Dexter]

How do these headsets work for people with glasses ? Do you keep them on or can you adjust the screen for different dioptric values ?

If you can see shit at 1m or 2m distance, you probably don't need glasses. If you can't see at that distance you need glasses in VR. You can theoretically wear glasses using a VR headset, but it's kinda uncomfortable. I didn't have a problem with wearing them using my Oculus Rift CV1, but they scratched my Valve Index lenses a bit on the first few days. So the danger is that either the lenses of your VR headset or your own glasses might get scratched.

There are several companies that are selling prescription lenses to put over the ones your VR headset has so you don't need any glasses, personally I've had good results with VR Optician on several headsets:
https://vroptician.com/
https://vr-lens-lab.com/
https://widmovr.com/
https://www.vrmust.com/

 

[†††]

15 minutes is enough for a wank

 

[Renevent]

Dexter

Did you bother to read Naraya's post? I'll trust the expert thanks:

Mr. Baker further explains the VR issue in terms of depth perception where in the eyes are manipulated by the headset into seeing two different image depths (left and right eye displays) into one image. In doing so, there is continuous tension on the eye’s inter-ocular muscles. The eyes are doing double duty getting focus and convergence. Focus and convergence don’t always agree in VR and depending on a person’s tolerance, the brain is trying to decide whether the projected image is a hallucination or not.
We know for a fact that the image isn’t real and we see it for what it is but the inner workings of the brain says it’s an image we’re not actually seeing. Once the brain decides it’s a hallucination, the rest of the body thinks it has ingested something poisonous and the rest is biology.

Apparently my brain is better at recognizing hallucination than the other 30-60%, which is pretty ironic in my case.

You're welcome to keep nursing your buyer's remorse with Renevent though.

I enjoy VR, that's it. That's funny stuff though, you're a fag that get's sick from VR, and yet that somehow says something about me lol. Not only that, but fact you're a fag with woman-level constitution is actually showing that you must have better perception ROFL...just holy shit lol.

 

[DalekFlay]

Add on top of this the percentage of people who don't want to wear headgear while they "relax" and you've got a recipe for a healthy niche hobby that never takes over the mainstream.

 

[Renevent]

I actually agree it almost certainly will never take over mainstream, and most games flat-out wouldn't be able to be translated appropriately (add significant VR experience to offset the drawbacks of VR). But for flight simulators and certain other genre's, it's pretty damn awesome and I look forward to see it continue to improve.

 

[Urthor]

I knew I needed to go on a diet.


Sounds like VR's for me.

 

[Norfleet]

Honestly, VR doesn't do anything for me. As far as I can tell, it, and motion sickness that results, are because VR is basically attempting to use an exploit in the perception system to deliver fake data, and my brain is just having none of that malarkey, so I don't become ill, but nor do I see the illusion, it just appears as a weird double-image. I suspect if the mechanism of illness is as described, it's because my brain is accustomed to hallucinations and simply has learned to ignore it.

 

[Renevent]

Honestly, VR doesn't do anything for me. As far as I can tell, it, and motion sickness that results, are because VR is basically attempting to use an exploit in the perception system to deliver fake data, and my brain is just having none of that malarkey, so I don't become ill, but nor do I see the illusion, it just appears as a weird double-image.

The fact you get sick isn't a indication of having better perception, it's showing that it's worse and that your brain is unable to cope. It's exactly why far more women get sick from VR as well...and why they also get motion sickness from boating and other shit like that at over double the rate.

 

[Crispy]

Slightly off-topic but I genuinely feel bad for people who love video games but suffer from motion sickness playing them, VR or not.

Imagine having a hobby that, when you want enjoy it, literally makes you nauseous.

And back slightly on-topic, even though I've never personally tried "VR", I have no desire to replace a traditional, large, high-quality monitor with any set of goggles. I don't care how good the technology gets.

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

Not so fond memories of puking my brains out with doom2 on vfx1, but was gonna get the money's worth no matter what.

When the new VR helmet fad came around it really just sounded like the same crap we heard before. If the tech is good enough and you're in the % who doesn't get sick nor eye damage from it then maybe first person games can be a little more graphically immersive for you. I much prefer topdown or third person/OTS over first person perspective in games, so aside from some fpp horror games the gaming benefits seem to be small for such a high cost. Same as it was in the 90s.

The only difference I can see nowadays that possibly justified the whole revival/rounds of investment is pornography. No broadband internet and barebones multimedia capabilities meant porn was a no-go for 90s VR helmets, they were for games and simulations only. Not anymore.

Size is important when it comes to making a depiction of a naked person trigger arousal. Watching one on a six inch smartphone certainly doesn't have the same effect as seeing one on a 75 inch screen. And short of a cinema projector with 3d glasses, vr helmets are the only way you get the illusion of life-sized people on a screen. I suspect that's the main reason why VR smut became so popular so fast, certainly moreso than VR games.

 

[Gregz]

Size matters when it comes to tricking your reptilian brain into thinking it's seeing a real naked person -triggering arousal- instead of a flat surface. Watching one on a six inch smartphone doesn't have the same effect as seeing one on a 75 inch screen. And short of a cinema projector with 3d glasses, vr helmets are the only way you get the illusion of life-sized people on a screen. I suspect that's the main reason why VR smut became so popular so fast, certainly moreso than VR games.

I read yesterday that they sold out and you can no longer find them in stores, I guess that explains why.

 

[octavius]

Why you feel motion sickness during virtual reality

Because you are a subhuman. Superior beings like myself doesn't feel motion sickness.

Be smug while you can.
I used to feel the same way. Then when I played Thief 2 twenty years ago I suddenly experienced motion sickness from games for the first time.
For me it's the head bobbing that makes me sick, so fortunately I can play most FPP games by turning it off.

Never tried VR, though.
Wonder if sea sickness pills help?

 

[Jigawatt]

Especially since the group doesn't seem to represent any kind of population distribution (otherwise, why would they have 3 times as many women as men?).

This is a typical distribution on modern university campuses, where the experiment will have been carried out.

Anyway, as someone who's job involves running 100s of people through various applications in VR, I'd put the incidence of "absolutely unavoidable simulation sickness" somewhere in the 5%-10% range, at least in the uni student age bracket. And yes most or almost all of them are women, though there may be some reporting bias in that alongside the innate differences. I don't think it's really that significant for the overall adoption of VR, and it might improve a bit as time goes on, but regardless makes the OP a ridiculous level of fake news.

 

[Norfleet]

The fact you get sick isn't a indication of having better perception, it's showing that it's worse and that your brain is unable to cope. It's exactly why far more women get sick from VR as well...and why they also get motion sickness from boating and other shit like that at over double the rate.

There's two components that are involved: Ability to perceive the unreality, and ability to cope with it. If you can't perceive it at all, your ability to cope with it is never tested. If you are completely blind, you won't ever develop motion sickness from VR because you simply can't see it.

So why do women develop motion sickness more? Well, either because they're better able to perceive it, or because they're worse at coping with the conflicting inputs. We don't really know the exact nature of it.

For me it's the head bobbing that makes me sick, so fortunately I can play most FPP games by turning it off.

Never tried VR, though.
Wonder if sea sickness pills help?

The root cause of sea-sickness and video-game motion sickness is the perception of motion by one sense without the corresponding perception of motion from the other. The head-bobbing causes you to see motion, but you cannot feel any motion, and this is viewed as a conflicting input by the brain. Boats create the opposite effect, the sensation of motion, without the visual perception of motion because the sea is basically featureless and the boat is a relatively static object which doesn't move relative to you.

Your brain can handle this in several ways: Interpret both sensations as valid and therefore reach the conclusion that you are ill, or reject one or more of the conflicting inputs and reach an alternate conclusion that doesn't conclude you are ill.

 

[Doktor Best]

I probably won't find it now but I've read a VERY interesting article about why VR will never go mainstream because too much of a % of people (humans) are unable to cope with it. It was written by a guy who researched VR for US Army.

edit: Actually found it, kinda... It was on Quora but mysteriously the article is no longer available. You can read the digest below:

https://www.csoonline.com/article/3...ert-doesnt-see-an-easy-fix-for-vr-nausea.html
https://movietvtechgeeks.com/virtual-reality-headsets-banned

“I’ve been working with helmet mounted displays in military flight simulation for several decades – I am an expert in the field… IMHO – these devices should be banned – but that may not be necessary because after the first wave of early adopters I think it’ll go the way of 3D televisions. But that’s just my opinion. Let me explain why.

Everyone thinks these things are new and revolutionary…but they really aren’t. All that’s happened is that they dropped in price from $80,000 to $500…and many corners have been cut along the way. There are several claims that the nausea problem has either been fixed, or will soon be fixed, or that application design can be used to work around the problem.

The claims that it’s been fixed are based on the theory that the nausea is caused by latency/lag in the system, or by low-resolution displays or by inaccurate head motion tracking…all of which can (and are) being fixed by obvious improvements to the system. Sadly, the $80,000 googles we made for the US military had less latency, higher resolution displays, and more accurate head tracking than any of the current round of civilian VR goggles…and they definitely made people sick – so this seems unlikely.

The problem is that the people who make those claims are either ignorant (or are deliberately ignoring) the evidence collected over 20 years of flight simulation experience with VR goggles (only we called them ‘Helmet Mounted Displays’ – HMD’s – and what we did was called ‘simulation’ and not ‘virtual reality’). Worse still, there is strong research evidence that the harm they cause extends for as much as 8 hours AFTER you stop using the goggles. Considerable disorientation after prolonged exposure to VR. The US military recommends that users avoid flying or driving for up to 24 hours…”

— Steve Baker, through Quora

I call bullshit on this article. First of all, i tried one of those military simulations back before consumer VR. It was crap and in no way comparable to nowadays VR systems. Secondly, it contradicts John Carmacks remarks about sensor delay reduction in this interview:



And even if what he was writing about the VR technology itself was true, if you go back 10-15 years, you simply wouldn't have the graphical computing power necessary for flawless VR systems. Military technology usually is ahead of consumer level technology, but not by a that big margin and not necessarily in the area of computing hardware.

Dude says hes an "expert in the field", but his name shows up NOWHERE on google besides the prestigious homepage called "movietvtechgeeks" he published the article on. Doesn't have to mean anything, but ehh. Why would some high grade military tech expert publish articles on some clickbait shitsite? Don't they have laws against that?


I for one can attest that motion sickness 1) improves A LOT with more stable performance and proper implementation of tracking data into the game. 2) with time and exercise 3)more precise tracking over all 4) higher refresh rates.

I had some moments occasionally initially when i started using my CV1, especially when i had a weak GPU (r9 390) and had my frames drop under 90 occasionally, which causes reprojection to kick in (which means the headset software doesn't get the info it needs in time and "makes up" the additional frames, which causes micro disorientation until the problem is resolved). It improved a lot when i upgraded my GPU and it improved even more when i got my third sensor. Nowadays it is completely gone even in high velocity/zero gravity situations. I put off my headset and go about my day. No dizzyness, no "disorientation", nothing.

A few weeks ago i tried some cheap crapo VR headset on a roller coaster ride in a theme park. It had constant tracking loss, lower HZ, framedrops and only 3DOF tracking (which means you can only rotate your head and as soon as you tilt it, the tracking will not pick up the movement). Felt sick after 5 minutes. Technological precision matters a lot when it comes to VR.

 

[Razor]

I actually agree it almost certainly will never take over mainstream, and most games flat-out wouldn't be able to be translated appropriately (add significant VR experience to offset the drawbacks of VR). But for flight simulators and certain other genre's, it's pretty damn awesome and I look forward to see it continue to improve.

The best milage I have gotten out of VR is with Vorpx. Fallout New Vegas alone has given me nearly 200 hours of entertainment. Other then that Fear 1, Alien Isolation, X3, HL:Alyx, SpaceEngine VR make up for the rest of the bulk. The simple premise that you have the illusion like you are actually IN the 3d space gives SO much to making the game feel fresh again. Even though I have finished those mentioned titles at least once before on a flat screen monitor. No VR motion controls needed, just sitting down and good old keyboard and mouse (except Alyx of course). Props to Fear 1- its probably the most hard for motion sickness prone (your head wobbles up and down as you move) but if you get into it, it really does feel like you are in a John Woo movie with the bullets warping in slow mo and you doing flying leg kicks into opponents before blowing their brains across the ceiling with shotty to the face.

Also, no bullshit about "1000 bucks! system". Together with vorpx own cost it took me exactly 466.80 EUR (Rift S), including tax and transportation. It runs even HL Alyx ok on a four year old system of I5 4670k CPU, GTX 970 GPU, 24 gigs of RAM (DD3). No overclock. The most yittery experience I have ever had with it is probably FNV but thats most definitely a game engine problem, not on my end. In contrast high points for Alien Isolation, a butter smooth experience from start to finish. It also has its own FREE mod for a VR driver, so no vorpx needed. HL alyx had some stuttering on loads but its understandable as I am below minimum requierements.

IMHO the biggest obstacle outside of motion sickness, which I had not much trouble with so I cant comment on it, is resource management. The last time I remember starting up the task manager and actively monitoring system CPU/RAM/GPU loads and temperature must have been back in the early 2000's, when tech speed moved so fast that whatever second hand hardware I could get my hands on already had aged woefully and struggled to run ultra space tech like quake 2 in software mode without squealing like a pig before xmas.

In contrast in my old system CPU is the biggest bottle neck: constant culprit are things like antivirus that dosent warn you when it start real time file monitoring on a new program and ends up hogging 15-20% of cpu. Other then that the various VR applications when active and comically enough, Steams own front page which at its high point gobbled up almost 50% of the CPU!. No, there was no downloading but it turned out that keeping you default front page on store is a bad no no- seems like its processing store front data constantly even if its not even selected. As soon as I selected library as my default the steam usage dropped dramatically. Other then the mentioned ones internet browsers and various background apps are other things to close down and keep to a minimal as possible.

I just cant see mainstream regular user going through this kind of optimizing. To give you a idea of the level one is dealing with, I read about a post complaining about "poor manufacturing quality". Turns out he/she/xir was complaining about glue stains left by the protective plastic thats put on the lenses when a fresh headset is first shipped. He had the headset exchanged FOUR times before he got one that more or less didnt have one. I too had large glue stains on my lenses when I got my set. You know what I did? The thing that your operators manual told you to do: get some lens cleaning cloth from any respectable optics vendor and gently, in a round motion wiped them off. This imbecile wasted FOUR headsets, labeling them as "defective" even though they probably were perfectly operational units!

 

[a Goat]

VR is the future and here's my startup's pitch how to make it works. Please invest.

 

[octavius]

antivirus that dosent warn you when it start real time file monitoring on a new program and ends up hogging 15-20% of cpu.

Ironic, isn't it? Anti-virus that behaves like malware.
I remember Norton using over 50% on my dad's computer.

 

[Mortmal]

15 minutes is enough for a wank

Dont know how you manage to do that with the controllers, but its the codex we got champions here.

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

That said, there was all this hype for years about VR, and I wasn't very compelled by that. Thankfully, as a result, we didn't waste any money on it.

https://www.protocol.com/amp/take-two-strauss-zelnick-2647646413

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

If you get sick playing VR you are a weak bitch. Dozens of people have tried VR at my house, a single solitary person got sick...my 70 year old mother

That's not a very nice thing to say about your mother. I guess VR sets really are for the worst kind of people.

 

[Doktor Best]

That said, there was all this hype for years about VR, and I wasn't very compelled by that. Thankfully, as a result, we didn't waste any money on it.

https://www.protocol.com/amp/take-two-strauss-zelnick-2647646413

Oh yes, moneysucking corporate suit who scams little kids with lootbox gambling and ingame advertisment for a 70 dollar game. Really interested in hearing his hot take on the industry.

VR obviously won't develop as fast as the Zuck expected since its hard to do marketing for and its still expensive to buy into, but the market is growing. In fact it tripled since 2016:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/591181/global-augmented-virtual-reality-market-size/

 

[DalekFlay]

Anyway, as someone who's job involves running 100s of people through various applications in VR, I'd put the incidence of "absolutely unavoidable simulation sickness" somewhere in the 5%-10% range, at least in the uni student age bracket. And yes most or almost all of them are women, though there may be some reporting bias in that alongside the innate differences. I don't think it's really that significant for the overall adoption of VR, and it might improve a bit as time goes on, but regardless makes the OP a ridiculous level of fake news.

"Ignore this study from a major outlet and trust my personal experience" is peak 2020 internet. At least you're not running a superpower government with a massive military I guess.