KickStarter Vigilantes: neo-noir, turn based tactical RPG

[Timeslip]

Is this formula in the tooltips or hints section? I like to know the formulas for stuff. Can you explain more of how leadership bonus works? I saw earlier in this thread or the other thread where you said the person with the highest presence is the leader, but does leadership stat do anything for it besides adding to presence? How much do you have to add to presence to get 1% chance-to-hit modifier? Does the leader also get the benefit of their own leadership? I see they get the icon, but thematically, I'm not sure it make sense, so I wanted to double check.

Also, does the speed loader only work with revolvers, since that would make sense? I don't recall that being in the description, but it didn't seem to work for me on other guns.


I see somebody already answered this question for you, but it'd be nice if the game made it more obvious. I managed to figure it out on my own, but it was just before fighting the final boss when I was just upgrading equipment for the lulz. I was waiting to use my components to upgrade better armor and didn't realize there wasn't better armor.

Hey Dickie, sorry I missed your post first time around. I'll fill out the help section more in upcoming updates. Leadership bonus is a flat bonus of +1 per point, and presence gives 1 per 15 points. Leader gets benefit of own leadership (you can see status effects in the lower right during combat). I've added the extra info to the speed loader. Will also do something about making it more obvious that l4 armour is maxed.

 

[Dickie]

Edit

Also, does the speed loader only work with revolvers, since that would make sense? I don't recall that being in the description, but it didn't seem to work for me on other guns.

The first reload in a battle is supposed to be for free. Works for me for a shotgun. Well, it's probably the most handy for rifles or shotguns.

Interesting. I actually only saw the speedloader work one time, and that was when I happened to have a revolver. I didn't have the revolver long before I got that pistol that does around 20 damage from one of the lieutenants, and it didn't work with that gun at all. Maybe it was a bug for me. I don't think I was just not remembering I had already reloaded because I almost never had to reload twice in one battle when playing on Vigilante difficulty.

I ended up ditching the speedloader after a few battles and grabbing a laser sight, so I didn't test it with a lot of guns.

 

[Timeslip]

Hm, for the strategical layer you could use more depth.

For example theres this game. Comic book hero: the greatest cape

This is what you can do every turn, which is roughly what you can do in vigilantes, except here its far better presented.

Here you can recruit people to do patrolling. Depending on what they are doing that round they may agree or not, you may even find them while doing surveilance if they didnt agree to go with you.

These RNG elements feed into the vigilantism theme of not know what the fuck will happen next. Most of this is just text and some luck, it is a lot of writing, and can take quite a while, but it adds a lot more than another character model.

I'll have a think about it, but would prefer to be honest: a notable push on new features is unlikely. Features are very time consuming, and are the biggest source of bugs. If I can think of anything feasible, which benefits the game substantially in relation to the amount of time it takes, will consider it. Heh, extra models/character customisation is probably the most frequent request. Have always favoured developing gameplay over cosmetics and visuals. That's not going to change.

Sure, why are you attacking them? what is it that you hope to accomplish? other than gaining some XP and interrogating people for the 50th time this week.
Combat is too easy to start, and too unrewarding, theres no real impact behind taking down one of their facilities, at least the player doesnt feel like it was a victory.

Also something more, bypass at the end seems dumb, why do we even have to click on the loot? seems like a wasted opportunity. I would propose adding a risk to the bypass, you have limited time, either the police or enemy back up is coming, and you have to get out of there. X is the loot you get, and you can attempt to bypass other places for loot, increased risk or limited tries, meaning youll have to actually think if you want to loot something with low chances of success but valuable, or something with high chances but most assuredly vendor trash.

Okay, so feedback for player actions. Newspaper articles covering your actions, diary entries? Started adding some of these in V29 & 30. Didn't get to add as many as would have like to, but think they benefit the game a lot in relation to the time it takes to write/add them. This is on the cards.

Not arguing that all the feats put together amount to something good, just saying, individual feats feel like crap.

I would go with less feats but more gamechanging, so that you really look forward to getting them and when you do you feel a noticeable difference.

flurry is basically a 10% chance of getting a 50% or 33% increase in your damage while unarmed, which you probably should avoid if you have a good weapon, but at the end of the day its effectively a 3-5% increase in damage and thats pathetic, and it feels pathetic.

It's harder to change things (like halving the number of perks, but making them more powerful) after full release. What I can do is look at balancing weaker perks.

 

[Timeslip]

I've gotten to around level 10 now and I do feel that the perks are a bit underwhelming. With a lot of my characters I've been saving up their perk points in case I can use them on something better when their stats are higher and I understand the game better. I haven't run into any situation where there's multiple perks that I really want and I feel like it's tough to decide which one to take.

Hey Nutria. Thanks for the feedback. I can look at balancing weaker perks. Did a pass on them fairly recently and would be happy to do more balancing work

 

[Dickie]

Hey Nutria. Thanks for the feedback. I can look at balancing weaker perks. Did a pass on them fairly recently and would be happy to do more balancing work

Can you add the perks button when creating a character, so I can look at the requirements and plan out my stats better?

 

[Timeslip]

I've put 10 hours in this game over last 3 days and i can say i like it quite a bit. Sure, there are some nitpicks, but no game is ideal. Graphics are serviceable, sound is good, so is music. I even liked most of the voiceovers. For a one man dev team this is very, very good.
some thoughts in no particular order:
- gathering the team was quite fun
- i like special encounters you sometimes get instead of a combat mission, though some of them look a bit silly on a repeat
- i'm running my crew like a chuck norris movie -- non-lethal ass kicking, and was hitting a bit of a wall, but then i read here about armor upgrading (to lvl 2 and beyond) and that really helped
- perks are ok, some are underwhelming, but some are quite impactful. For example: Athletic is a beast, flurry really helped in tight spots. Skills -- i dunno, for now active team only levels up unarmed combat, and one dude at the base who's putting every point in crafting (i like that inactive ppl are getting levels)
- not really feeling the noir vibe: sure some of your teammate's stories are dark, but for me it's still more 80's action movie, than some dark gloom. Bright colors also help with that. As does running a kung-fu based team.
- in general i like the gameplay loop -- cleaning the city grid, gaining power in skills/stats/base and equipment, finding info on rackets and lieutenants and shutting them down
- no bugs other than occasional wall shooting and rare AI retardation (running back and forth behind a building, healing once and skipping turn) and some minor visual stuff

Timeslip i was wrong about the grain. Turns out i didn't switch it off, probably forgot to hit save.

Cheers, RoBoBOBR. Just curious, which voiceovers did you like the most, and which ones did you like the least?

 

[Timeslip]

Timeslip

I found another bug. This one is kinda tricky to find:
When you have a character behind a full cover wall/object, and you shoot at an enemy that forces your character to automatically step out of cover to shoot, if you press the right mouse button fast enough (while it is shooting), the character will get stuck and not move. It will stay there and not return behind cover and will not allow the combat to continue.
Only option left is to quit to main menu or desktop and reload the game.

It seems like it happens more frequently if you can shoot more than once per turn, if you shoot once and then quickly shoot again and press the button quickly, the bug will happen on the second shot.

I only found this out because my mouse is broken and sometimes double-clicks by itself, I then tested a bit more and could replicate the result using a button that doesn't double click.

Cheers. Sounds like input is being passed through when it shouldn't be. I'll get this one in the first update.

 

[Timeslip]

Can you add the perks button when creating a character, so I can look at the requirements and plan out my stats better?

I can't remember why I removed it from the starting character screen, but I see the benefit in having it there. If there's no big technical reason why it was removed, will add it back in.

 

[Dickie]

Can you add the perks button when creating a character, so I can look at the requirements and plan out my stats better?

I can't remember why I removed it from the starting character screen, but I see the benefit in having it there. If there's no big technical reason why it was removed, will add it back in.

I guess it might be confusing for some people why they can see the list but not select a perk at that point.

 

[Timeslip]

Haven't taken those leadership perks yet, so can't really check, sorry.

The following is info from ingame description + some possible suggestions and feedback if want to hear some:

Tag!
Provides +15% damage bonus against this enemy for 2 turns (for all allies), costs 2AP, 2 turns cooldown
-> suggestion: no cooldown, can Tag at will for 2AP, perhaps no need to stack

Insult
Increases criticals against this enemy +5% for the rest of the battle (for all allies), 2AP cost, 2 turns cooldown
-> suggestion: no cooldown, Insult at will for 1AP, could be stackable (eg. Lightly / Heavy / Deadly Insulted)
Edit: Nah, that was stupid, perhaps just cancel cooldown, but 15%-20% for 2AP (if crit roll after hit roll then real critical % increase is lower)

All out offensive
Increases damage by all party members by 40% for 1 turn, costs 5AP, 2 turns cooldown
-> suggestion: once per turn (ie. 1 turn cooldown) Depends on the team play, as leader is exchanging his own firepower for the party's.

As for Tactical Delay, situationaly powerful, no complains (cancels delay AP cost for all team members).
Fearsome and Terrifying presence can use some buff, or perhaps increase chance of enemies to flee in the aoe or so (can combine with a shotgun CC)

Some thematic ideas if want to add perks (but feel free to skip):

Spoiler

Go! (active)
Gives an ally +X AP for the following turn for the cost of (X+1) AP. Practically the leader is giving away his APs for ally's.

Bribe I and II (active)
For 100 Euro and 5 AP cost you can bribe one basic enemy troop to leave (i.e. switch to fleeing), With Bribe II can bribe also specialist rank for 200 Euro

Team Player (passive, yeah, stealing from FT)
This character gets double CTH (or other) bonuses from party leader, but suffers more when said leader is incapacitated.

Avenger (passive)
When the team loses leader, this character gets buffed instead debuffed

Sunglasses (utility item)
+20 Presence, -10 Initiative at Night

Cologne/Perfume (utility item)
+10 Presence, plus having taunt effect

PS: May Mac be easy to crack.

I can check them easily enough and won't be able to do anything with them for a while yet, anyway Got some time off on Saturday and Sunday, but wanted to get that pretty serious Mac bug fixed, so ended up working last night. It's fixed now, and it's settling down a bit, so should be able to get a bit of down-time over the next few days. After that, will collect information have missed on lesser bugs/or moderate bugs which are infrequently occuring and start fixing. Best plan is likely to focus bugs on V1.01

 

[RoBoBOBR]

which voiceovers did you like the most, and which ones did you like the least?

i liked them all, other than blond girl who is not a red ninja, and not a cop, i forgot her name. Her voice was somehow grating.

Speaking of red ninja -- she's quite unhappy with me (-2 reaction), while 2 other babes are around reaction 50. Is that because red ninja wants to go lethal?

In terms of feedback -- i guess a good way to present player with it would be after big wins -- bosses and rackets. You down them and get a newspaper flash (rather than having to go to your journal) showing you how city is reacting to your actions.

Oh and also can you make it so we can close pop-ups by clicking on them? Stuff like "Your %stat% is increased" frequently obscures stuff, and i have to wait for it to go away on its own.

 

[ushas]

I can check them easily enough and won't be able to do anything with them for a while yet, anyway Got some time off on Saturday and Sunday, but wanted to get that pretty serious Mac bug fixed, so ended up working last night. It's fixed now, and it's settling down a bit, so should be able to get a bit of down-time over the next few days. After that, will collect information have missed on lesser bugs/or moderate bugs which are infrequently occuring and start fixing. Best plan is likely to focus bugs on V1.01

No worries, was nowhere important at this point. Though maybe you'd consider lowering some requirements in the update? Related to what Nutria mentioned, we don't have a big selection of perks to choose from on lower levels.

Fairly sure that somebody somewhere must have said that sales will be even better when one goes on vacation... It now lives on its own. With significant content updates near the release and bigger audience, some issues are inevitable, but it's still well polished, and most importantly fully playable, for such high production / team ratio. I'm starting wondering, hearing some recent games having a lot of troubles, they were probably aware but just reports don't solve the problem. Dunno, maybe they left bugfixing to later stages and then there was no time left. And that your decision to release every month build & fixes since kickstarter two years back was damn good plan... Cheers!

 

[ushas]

Can you add the perks button when creating a character, so I can look at the requirements and plan out my stats better?

I can't remember why I removed it from the starting character screen, but I see the benefit in having it there. If there's no big technical reason why it was removed, will add it back in.

I guess it might be confusing for some people why they can see the list but not select a perk at that point.

We can get something like a wild card perk at the character creation, taking any perk want regardless of requirements. A sort of like choosing a background trait for Sam too. Don't know if too much crazy though.

 

[Eyestabber]

Can you explain more of how leadership bonus works? I saw earlier in this thread or the other thread where you said the person with the highest presence is the leader, but does leadership stat do anything for it besides adding to presence? How much do you have to add to presence to get 1% chance-to-hit modifier? Does the leader also get the benefit of their own leadership? I see they get the icon, but thematically, I'm not sure it make sense, so I wanted to double check

Some unofficial info:
-- Each stat adds +3 to connected skills per point, In case of Leadership it's Presence and Trade
-- There are several perks, that require higher Leadership to unlock
-- Together with Presence increases CTH bonus given to all allies on team (including leader), I think the formula might be something like [ Leadership + floor(Presence/15) ] (so +1% per 15 points in Presence)
-- In the past Leadership determined distance from the leader, but now CTH bonus applies everywhere on the map
-- Fearsome presence perk debuffing enemies in AOE around leader might still correlate with Leadership (not sure)
-- a team loosing the leader will get ronin debuff for the rest of the battle (-1 AP per Turn and Max AP, -1 Initiative)

Edit

Also, does the speed loader only work with revolvers, since that would make sense? I don't recall that being in the description, but it didn't seem to work for me on other guns.

The first reload in a battle is supposed to be for free. Works for me for a shotgun. Well, it's probably the most handy for rifles or shotguns.

Tell us the AP thresholds and the max AP formula.

On leadership perks: All Out Offensive is the only one that really matters. Terrifying presence is a joke. 2 perk points for a 7% debuff that isn't even global? Really? Come on, improve that shit. And "TAG" should be free of AP cost to be (somewhat) worthwhile.

Also, only active gun related perk is "Weak Point". The whole perk system seems REALLY half baked, TBH. And "Soldier" requires lvl 10, but assault rifles only show up REALLY lategame.

The core issue, however, is that the entire perk tree doesn't provide for an interesting power progression. With the sole exception of a pistol build (which I guess is the "developer's intended way of playing the game" build) and shotgun (which is full of "meh" effects, but at least DOES have a build path), everything else is just "wait until lvl 15 for a YUGE power spike".

Not trying to shit on the game (since I'm enjoying), but take a closer look at your inspiration Fallout. The power curve for pretty much any build has you setting up a "roadmap" of perks you intend to take from start to finish, constantly giving the player something to look up to. Now, if you want an even better implementation of the Fallout-esque perk system, then take a look into how Underrail does things and you will find a WEALTH of fun perks opening up new options for the player left and right.

(for the record, tho, I'm NOT really a huge fan of Underrail's Superpowers on a cooldown system, but it's still miles above "gives the bad guys -3%")

 

[ushas]

Tell us the AP thresholds and the max AP formula.

No guaranties, possibly something like
AP per Turn = 4 + floor[(Fleetness + 2) / 3]
Max AP = 4 + floor[(Fleetness + 2) / 3] + floor[(Toughness) / 4]

In other words one gets
+1 AP per Turn as well as Max AP at Fleetness 1,4,7,10,13
+1 Max AP at Toughness 4,8,12

So prob. the most effective start is 7 Fleetness and 4 Toughness (-> 7 APpT and 8 Max AP) and the remaining 2 stat points distribute as want

 

[Eyestabber]

LOL, your numbers match my build

My metagaming is sharp af.

Tho I would make one correction: no point in starting with Fleetness 7, since having 7 AP won't matter until you get the juicy M1911 with its 7AP double-snap. I go for instinct instead, since the payoff is instant and puts you closer to 8 (Weak Point). Then I invest points into fleet until reaching 7.

No reason to go instinct 10, since I prioritize the Firing Range and I'll have it maxed out by the time I get close to "Gunslinger".

 

[Lhynn]

It's harder to change things (like halving the number of perks, but making them more powerful) after full release

Oh for sure. The game got released, thats fine.

Just a bit of feedback for maybe an expansion or the next game.

 

[ushas]

Tho I would make one correction: no point in starting with Fleetness 7, since having 7 AP won't matter until you get the juicy M1911 with its 7AP double-snap. I go for instinct instead, since the payoff is instant and puts you closer to 8 (Weak Point). Then I invest points into fleet until reaching 7.

No reason to go instinct 10, since I prioritize the Firing Range and I'll have it maxed out by the time I get close to "Gunslinger".

Correction to your correction
IMO, For a pistolman, starting with F7 T4 is good because of 8 Max AP: can fire two snapshots at the first turn and every other turn when you saved at least 1 AP, right from the game's start. Then rest into Intuition, you'll have to wait for that sweet Weak Point perk till Firearms skill is high enough anyway.

Hm, but without or much lower skill requirement of the perk, we're indeed talking about two early game gunslinger paths.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Hmm.
I think shown odds for close/long range deployment gives away sector danger level even when you don't have intel for it yet.

 

[ushas]

Hmm.
I think shown odds for close/long range deployment gives away sector danger level even when you don't have intel for it yet.

Interesting. First I thought it correlates with intel % we have on the sector, i.e. the more you know about the area the better prepared, but doesn't seem to.

Edit - Aren't there also other factors, like a gang or wealth?
Two survivalist sectors: both danger 3 and approx 40% crime, differ in wealth 2 and 3, it shows 86% and 78% chances.

Either case, it's often that a higher wealth tile has a bigger chance for higher danger and crime. Then can approximately say lower deployment % -> easier battle, and vice versa. Hm, is there any strong reason to spend time on surveillance?

 

[Slimu]

Did my job, left a Steam review https://steamcommunity.com/id/slimu20/recommended/545600?snr=1_5_9__402

After the September (bugs) madness, it was a joy to just play a newly released game without having to wait for updates.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

does trade on the non-main character do anything?

 

[Timeslip]

Hmm.
I think shown odds for close/long range deployment gives away sector danger level even when you don't have intel for it yet.

Interesting. First I thought it correlates with intel % we have on the sector, i.e. the more you know about the area the better prepared, but doesn't seem to.

Edit - Aren't there also other factors, like a gang or wealth?
Two survivalist sectors: both danger 3 and approx 40% crime, differ in wealth 2 and 3, it shows 86% and 78% chances.

Either case, it's often that a higher wealth tile has a bigger chance for higher danger and crime. Then can approximately say lower deployment % -> easier battle, and vice versa. Hm, is there any strong reason to spend time on surveillance?

Yeah, it hints at at. There are other factors, but can't recall them (and it will take 15 mins to get Unity going). I'll look at this. You're right on the higher wealth, ushas, more gang members are allocated to protect these early on.

 

[Timeslip]

Did my job, left a Steam review https://steamcommunity.com/id/slimu20/recommended/545600?snr=1_5_9__402

After the September (bugs) madness, it was a joy to just play a newly released game without having to wait for updates.

Much appreciated Slimu! Getting more bad reviews in the last few days. Don't mind bad reviews in general, know not everyone will like the game, and a few of them are pretty constructive. Bit demoralising spending 10k hours working on something just for someone to play it for 20 mins and conclude that it's crap.

 

[Timeslip]

does trade on the non-main character do anything?

If an ally's trade skill is higher than Sam's, it will be used to determine buy and sell price.