Interview Vault Dweller interviewed about Kickstarter, calls Shadowrun Returns an "awful fucking iPhone game"

[Mrowak]

Codex overreacting over Shadowrun again? Methinks it was just a simple, RPG-lite game - not far from what they promised. I guess it's the case of generally inflated expectations which accompanies projects such as this one.

 

[Lhynn]

Shadowrun was intriguing, it represented the setting well enough. char gen and all that shit is bad, but nothing that cant be fixed. Everything else is left up to the modding community, all in all not a bad game, especially compared to all the AAA vomit weve been getting in the last years.
I dont see it as a failure in any way, just as a barely pass in some aspects, brilliant in others, fixable in the rest.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

SRR is shit.Leveling ,skills,items,dialog-all of that reach new levels of linearity and blandness. Worst 11 euro and 10h I spent with that turd this year.Only the first 1 hour of Underrail put that game to shame for what you can do with small budget.

 

[Scruffy]

Edit: because there is no transparency, we have no clue what the actual budget is, what's enough and what isn't.

Are you tracking how much money has been spent / is being spent doing AoD?

 

[skuphundaku]

Edit: because there is no transparency, we have no clue what the actual budget is, what's enough and what isn't.

Are you tracking how much money has been spent / is being spent doing AoD?

Do you want him to have a stroke?

 

[Scruffy]

Edit: because there is no transparency, we have no clue what the actual budget is, what's enough and what isn't.

Are you tracking how much money has been spent / is being spent doing AoD?

Do you want him to have a stroke?

well, it would be interesting to know what you can do with how much.

 

[skuphundaku]

Edit: because there is no transparency, we have no clue what the actual budget is, what's enough and what isn't.

Are you tracking how much money has been spent / is being spent doing AoD?

Do you want him to have a stroke?

well, it would be interesting to know what you can do with how much.

"...you didn't need guns or money or even numbers. You just needed the will to do what the other guy wouldn't." It's irrelevant what can someone make with a given amount of money, because someone else could do even more or much less.

 

[Scruffy]

i feel like my point is not getting across, so i'll just stop and wait for the eventual VD reply

 

[Vault Dweller]

Edit: because there is no transparency, we have no clue what the actual budget is, what's enough and what isn't.

Are you tracking how much money has been spent / is being spent doing AoD?

Not sure I understand the question. I'm aware of how much was spent, of course.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Vault Dweller Sorry if this has been asked already, but do you plan on going for Steam Early Access with the latest version of the demo? It's 2/3 of the entire game so I think it could be pretty popular. I remember Styg saying that Underrail's early access was pretty successful, and that's arguable a (relatively) lower-profile game than AoD.

 

[Kane]

Vault Dweller is the Paris Hilton of RPG development.

 

[Scruffy]

Edit: because there is no transparency, we have no clue what the actual budget is, what's enough and what isn't.

Are you tracking how much money has been spent / is being spent doing AoD?

Not sure I understand the question. I'm aware of how much was spent, of course.

right, so, let's suppose that, armed with that knowledge, you'd go back in time and actually try a kickstarter (which you wouldn't because etc, etc, but hypothetically), how much would you try to fund to make AoD the way you want it to be?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Vault Dweller Sorry if this has been asked already, but do you plan on going for Steam Early Access with the latest version of the demo? It's 2/3 of the entire game so I think it could be pretty popular. I remember Styg saying that Underrail's early access was pretty successful, and that's arguable a (relatively) lower-profile game than AoD.

Yes.

 

[Infinitron]

Vault Dweller Sorry if this has been asked already, but do you plan on going for Steam Early Access with the latest version of the demo? It's 2/3 of the entire game so I think it could be pretty popular. I remember Styg saying that Underrail's early access was pretty successful, and that's arguable a (relatively) lower-profile game than AoD.

Yes.

Have you already submitted? Got an ETA?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Edit: because there is no transparency, we have no clue what the actual budget is, what's enough and what isn't.

Are you tracking how much money has been spent / is being spent doing AoD?

Not sure I understand the question. I'm aware of how much was spent, of course.

right, so, let's suppose that, armed with that knowledge, you'd go back in time and actually try a kickstarter (which you wouldn't because etc, etc, but hypothetically), how much would you try to fund to make AoD the way you want it to be?

That knowledge is useless because it doesn't reflect anything other than 'the bare minimum you might want to spend while working on a game part-time for years' (i.e. don't need KS).

Suppose one wants to make an RPG in 2 years. You need to know how many people it would take (for example, when you have one person per area or two like we have, you have to prioritize and you don't have time to do even simple tasks simultaneously), how much you need to pay them (full timers and contractors), if you're renting an office, how much it costs, hardware, etc). Then you go and ask for that amount.

 

[Crooked Bee]

I gotta say the game's shaping up to be pretty incredible. I'm about midway with my Assassin playthrough and everything just works -- "fun" and "balance" and all. Heads up for adding all those atmospheric descriptions, too; they really add to the exploration, non-substantial as they may be.

Looking forward to rolling a Mercenary next time.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Thanks, Bee.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Vault Dweller Sorry if this has been asked already, but do you plan on going for Steam Early Access with the latest version of the demo? It's 2/3 of the entire game so I think it could be pretty popular. I remember Styg saying that Underrail's early access was pretty successful, and that's arguable a (relatively) lower-profile game than AoD.

Yes.

Have you already submitted? Got an ETA?

Submitted last night. No ETA yet.

 

[Infinitron]

Vault Dweller Sorry if this has been asked already, but do you plan on going for Steam Early Access with the latest version of the demo? It's 2/3 of the entire game so I think it could be pretty popular. I remember Styg saying that Underrail's early access was pretty successful, and that's arguable a (relatively) lower-profile game than AoD.

Yes.

Have you already submitted? Got an ETA?

Submitted last night. No ETA yet.

Awesome. Judging by the time it took for Wasteland 1 EE to go online, it should be up in a matter of days.

 

[Scruffy]

Edit: because there is no transparency, we have no clue what the actual budget is, what's enough and what isn't.

Are you tracking how much money has been spent / is being spent doing AoD?

Not sure I understand the question. I'm aware of how much was spent, of course.

right, so, let's suppose that, armed with that knowledge, you'd go back in time and actually try a kickstarter (which you wouldn't because etc, etc, but hypothetically), how much would you try to fund to make AoD the way you want it to be?

That knowledge is useless because it doesn't reflect anything other than 'the bare minimum you might want to spend while working on a game part-time for years' (i.e. don't need KS).

Suppose one wants to make an RPG in 2 years. You need to know how many people it would take (for example, when you have one person per area or two like we have, you have to prioritize and you don't have time to do even simple tasks simultaneously), how much you need to pay them (full timers and contractors), if you're renting an office, how much it costs, hardware, etc). Then you go and ask for that amount.

Yes, of course, but what I’m trying to understand here is, considering that someone who uses KS is basically asking the crowd to be the “publisher” (provide the money for the development/marketing/whatnot) without actually reaping the rewards of being the publisher (money from sales), and considering that you yourself are your publisher/producer/etc, for AoD… do you think that, if you had to make AoD in two years contracting people, offices, etc, that 4 / 5 million would be enough? Like, would you ask 4 / 5 million to a bank for 2 years with the prospect of paying them back thanks to sales? Using roughly the same people you’re using now, but full time, is 4/5 million too little? Too much? Just curious.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'd say that 4-5 mil is a lot, way too much even especially for a small studio, but I don't have the actual knowledge and first hand experience. I don't know if 4 people working full time can make a quality RPG in 2 years, for example. Maybe it takes 12-15 people. I don't know what salaries people with the right skills would expect. If a good concept artist makes 80k a year would he work for 50-60? Can it be done in 2 years even with 20 people or was Tim Cain right and we should budget for 3 years? How much time would coordinating a 15-20 people would take? Etc.

 

[Awakened_Yeti]

I would love to pitch them a Dark Sun game for example.

awwwwwwwww yeh

 

[Grunker]

me: Shadowrun is an awful fucking RPG.
you: the systems are broken and it does everything poorly.
me: exactly! :high five:
you: bullshit! Blackguards, blackguards, blackguards!.

You can do better than that.

I'm not saying that it should have been more.

OK. Then we agree 100%. But that case I find a bit odd that you ever challenged my point and said: "yeah, we agree"

Like this for instance:

Shadowrun should have focused on LESS, not MORE, to be good. Blackguards will not have exploration, will not offer a bunch of branching dialogue or C&C. It will be tightly focused on the character system, the RPG combat, and a few pieces of meaningful interaction. This is what Shadowrun should have done, and not try to make a full-fledged RPG work with a small budget and a smaller development time.

Now, Mr Grunker, I agree with you. If they had sticked to the plan and kept the game how it was meant to be, an Ultima 7 style perspective with kinda simplistic graphics but used the extra budget to expand it , the result could be a better RPG. The focus would be in infiltrating instalations, simulating how a shadowrun should be done with ways to avoid security and combat encounters, not making a full fledge RPG. The problem is that they tried to make a full fledge RPG with all the bells and wizzles, realised that was impossible with their budget and tried to salvage their attempt, getting on an unconfortable middle ground. Not ambitious enough to be a good full fledge RPG and not focused enough to be a good RPG focused on one aspect.

Agree 100%!


Aaaaaaaanyway, good to know I misunderstood you. Not that our conversation will fix SRR or the disappointment it was.

 

[Mrowak]

I gotta say the game's shaping up to be pretty incredible. I'm about midway with my Assassin playthrough and everything just works -- "fun" and "balance" and all. Heads up for adding all those atmospheric descriptions, too; they really add to the exploration, non-substantial as they may be.

Looking forward to rolling a Mercenary next time.

Stoopid arse question: do people who preordered AoD get access to Beta? I don't remember and I've been out of the loop for quite some time.

Where did I put that link to the preorder download...

 

[Infinitron]

Stoopid arse question: do people who preordered AoD get access to Beta?

ONLY people who preordered AoD get access to the new beta.