World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming early 2025

[Roguey]

Obviously - I wouldn't be surprised if their contract didn't include any revenue at all. But when a company like Paradox comes to your little studio with a project like this, and you don't know whether you will be relevant enough to keep landing gigs in the future, you usually not only accept but kowtow to them. If they were forced by Sumo to develop it, it's pretty much because of the same reason.

They don't have to land gigs...? They're owned by Sumo. Still Wakes the Deep is their Sumo-funded project. If that does well, they'll continue funding more walking sims/action-adventures.

 

[user]

Obviously - I wouldn't be surprised if their contract didn't include any revenue at all. But when a company like Paradox comes to your little studio with a project like this, and you don't know whether you will be relevant enough to keep landing gigs in the future, you usually not only accept but kowtow to them. If they were forced by Sumo to develop it, it's pretty much because of the same reason.

They don't have to land gigs...? They're owned by Sumo. Still Wakes the Deep is their Sumo-funded project. If that does well, they'll continue funding more walking sims/action-adventures.

What I am saying is that whether you are an indie studio or a subsidiary owned by a bigger corp, you will be compelled to get the job one way or another. Either because it is needed to keep you afloat, or because your owner forces you to, in order to keep providing value to them and keep getting gigs from the rest of the market. If that wasn't the case, or if internal projects were enough, Sumo would never have forced them to take it in the first place. Owned or not, CR is still a development team which will either be absorbed, get the staff streamlining treatment, or be thrown away altogether like Embracer did with their own subsidiaries, if gigs are not enough or don't provide enough value to their owner.

 

[Star Citizen]

Lol the previous attempt by those other devs most likely would have been trash too but I was still sort of interested in seeing how it materialized in the end. This however looks like total fucking garbage across the board and masochistic torture to play willingly. Garbage writing (!!!!!!!!). Garbage "music". Garbage gameplay. Garbage garbage. If I were the top suit in that publisher's office I'd legit just have cut my losses and shelved it after that previous attempt fell through, this shit is an utter joke

 

[jackofshadows]

If you need projects to keep the studio afloat you ain't got much choice. But they will be the ones affected the most by a flop on their portfolio unfortunately.

Why? These people need to go. They're hopeless.

 

[Shaja]

 

[user]

If you need projects to keep the studio afloat you ain't got much choice. But they will be the ones affected the most by a flop on their portfolio unfortunately.

Why? These people need to go. They're hopeless.

Look at their studio's experience and the development time they were given. It's not nearly enough to make anything similar to the game we would hope for.
Regardless whether they are truly inept or not, no matter if they are out of a job in the future - nothing would change.
The game's fate had already been decided by its owner.

 

[jackofshadows]

If you need projects to keep the studio afloat you ain't got much choice. But they will be the ones affected the most by a flop on their portfolio unfortunately.

Why? These people need to go. They're hopeless.

Look at their studio's experience and the development time they were given. It's not nearly enough to make anything similar to the game we would hope for.
Regardless whether they are truly inept or not, no matter if they are out of a job in the future - nothing would change.
The game's fate had already been decided by its owner.

Well of course they wouldn't be able to deliver a worthy sequel but I don't blame them for that, I blame them for what they've shown, for what they actually have done like the whole Phyre misconception, rejection of guns, the art style, the writing bits we've seen etc etc. It's all look like shit. I don't really care why it looks like that but I don't think these guys could dramatically improve their skills in the future because of fundamentally wrong mindset. So they need to go. As well as Paradox itself, obviously speaking.

 

[Rahdulan]

Fucking hell. You can't deny they're trying to keep the legacy of jank alive, but if this is the best they can show off I'd be really worried. Location seems reminiscent of Santa Monica's Sabbat warehouse, but moment-to-moment gameplay, how it takes you into third person for insta-kills, etc. just rubs me the wrong way. I get a distinct feeling these devs might not be familiar with action or RPGs.

 

[Delterius]

i'm starting to think this won't be a good game at all

 

[Harthwain]

rejection of guns

This probably happened because it saved them time they'd need to program it into the game.

 

[Crichton]

Someone probably already did this, but:

 

[Child of Malkav]

Going into 3rd person for takedowns is not something I'm a fan of. It's one of the things I hated in DXHR/MD. I don't know if time freezes until the animation is over (like in those dx games) but it honestly wouldn't surprise me at this point.

 

[Tyranicon]

The lack of guns will really be rofl-level if enemies don't have guns either. In a game set in the US.

 

[Gargaune]

Going into 3rd person for takedowns is not something I'm a fan of. It's one of the things I hated in DXHR/MD. I don't know if time freezes until the animation is over (like in those dx games) but it honestly wouldn't surprise me at this point.

My only major peeve with DX4 is the forced third person for stealth, cover, takedowns and ladders. I just outright refused to use it in stealth and combat - crouch for cover, X-ray vision to get my bearings while sneaking, all FPP. The only TPP I want in a DX game is for dialogue.

If Bloodlines 2 goes for TPP takedowns, some manner of time freeze is pretty much necessary, or no matter how quick it is, you'll still get killed on the regular while locked into a cinematic of how "kewl" your character looks biting people. Even the original DX calls time out on combat while in TPP conversation, enemies just politely line up and wait for you to finish. For reference, NWN does the opposite, where NPCs will cancel out of dialogue if combat is joined, but that needs very careful handling of script triggers since it's fertile bug territory.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Yeah, I just want my melee weapons, equip, go behind, strike, bad guy goes down, that's it. No fancy animations, no time stopping, no nothing. Like in Thief and DX1. How is this so hard to copy and paste basically? Are normies so retarded they have to see AAA wrestling takedowns that look so out of place everytime?

And another thing: in the gameplay presentation, taking out enemies gives xp.
This game is such a.....I honestly believe that one should be required by law to play the "classics" or the best games of a series before attempting to make a sequel for those games. Or something. There has to be something. This is absurd and out of control.

 

[Roguey]

This game is such a.....I honestly believe that one should be required by law to play the "classics" or the best games of a series before attempting to make a sequel for those games. Or something. There has to be something. This is absurd and out of control.

The problem is that someone at Paradox (possibly Sean Greaney, who's been the brand manager of the WoD since 2019) thinks Bloodlines is shit and wants the game to be like this. The devs are just delivering what he asked for.

 

[Atlantico]

The lack of an inventory, character sheet, or rpg skill mechanics is what I can’t wrap my head around. WTF were they thinking. I’m assuming the ability tree is all various combat abilities and little else.

Hire the Chinese Room, get a walking simulator

Turns out a tiger doesn't change its stripes

 

[Gargaune]

I honestly believe that one should be required by law to play the "classics" or the best games of a series before attempting to make a sequel for those games. Or something. There has to be something. This is absurd and out of control.

I agree and genuinely believe this is why videogame development keeps spinning its wheels, failing time and again to match the milestones of yesteryear, let alone innovate on them. People keep saying "oh, they don't have any life experience, they don't read the right books or watch the right films", as if the people who developed their favourite classics were all war heroes and hard-nosed intellectuals... No, I just think they're playing the wrong games, that their nostalgic frame of reference isn't where it'd benefit them most, and it really seems like a lot of studios expect to "continue" old IPs without doing much... homework.

 

[The President]

The problem is that someone at Paradox (possibly Sean Greaney, who's been the brand manager of the WoD since 2019) thinks Bloodlines is shit and wants the game to be like this. The devs are just delivering what he asked for.

How can the disconnect be this big though? Paradox isn’t perfect but in their in-house games they do take feedback and aren’t exactly a studio that’s big on flashy graphics and no depth in their products. Despite HSL’s flaws, there was a lot there that was certainly in tune with the original. How did this new take head in such a distant direction from what they inherited.

One thing that pops to mind is why is there a need for social feeding? There’s no blood pool, inventory, or skills outside of combat, what exactly will it be for. Without an inventory, money, or anything else, what will the hubs even be for, there won’t be much to find or do really.

 

[Roguey]

I agree and genuinely believe this is why videogame development keeps spinning its wheels, failing time and again to match the milestones of yesteryear, let alone innovate on them. People keep saying "oh, they don't have any life experience, they don't read the right books or watch the right films", as if the people who developed their favourite classics were all war heroes and hard-nosed intellectuals... No, I just think they're playing the wrong games, that their nostalgic frame of reference isn't where it'd benefit them most, and it really seems like a lot of studios expect to "continue" old IPs without doing much... homework.

The Hardsuit Bloodlines was about as faithful a sequel as one could possibly be and it still looked terrible.

How can the disconnect be this big though? Paradox isn’t perfect but in their in-house games they do take feedback and aren’t exactly a studio that’s big on flashy graphics and no depth in their products. Despite HSL’s flaws, there was a lot there that was certainly in tune with the original. How did this new take head in such a distant direction from what they inherited.

Paradox is very good at strategy games with dlc-milking systems and have been universally terrible with RPGs. They botched Tyranny (with a lot of help from Feargus). They completely mishandled Harebrained Schemes. They had to cancel Digimancy's game. They gave up on funding Draw Distance's Hunter game midway through development. They've mismanaged the World of Darkness brand for nearly a decade now.

One thing that pops to mind is why is there a need for social feeding? There’s no blood pool, inventory, or skills outside of combat, what exactly will it be for. Without an inventory, money, or anything else, what will the hubs even be for, there won’t be much to find or do really.

A place where you travel from one mission to the next. Historic blizzard means there's not going to be anyone outside anyway.

 

[Delterius]

The lack of an inventory, character sheet, or rpg skill mechanics is what I can’t wrap my head around. WTF were they thinking. I’m assuming the ability tree is all various combat abilities and little else.

Hire the Chinese Room, get a walking simulator

Turns out a tiger doesn't change its stripes

we killed the tiger, imported a giraffe and somehow it mutated into having stripes. walking sim by metaphysical induction

 

[The President]

The Hardsuit Bloodlines was about as faithful a sequel as one could possibly be and it still looked terrible.

Yet in retrospect it looks better than what we currently are about to get.

Paradox is very good at strategy games with dlc-milking systems and have been universally terrible with RPGs. They botched Tyranny (with a lot of help from Feargus). They completely mishandled Harebrained Schemes. They had to cancel Digimancy's game. They gave up on funding Draw Distance's Hunter game midway through development. They've mismanaged the World of Darkness brand for nearly a decade now.

I can’t argue against this one. Just seems odd how they can’t put two and two together after a decade, or figure out who to ask to get it right.

A place where you travel from one mission to the next. Historic blizzard means there's not going to be anyone outside anyway.

Sounds like it’ll be a big bland world hub. No vendors, citizens, or anything really. HSL hub maps at least had a good legend and looked like it had things going on.

 

[Delterius]

I think Paradox is less 'bad with RPGs' and more of a 'sometimes lucky Publisher'. Was it Paradox's choice for Harebrained to eschew their in-built audiences from their previous games? Was it Paradox's choice to funnel money away from Tyranny towards PoE2? Genuine questions, I don't know but my impression is not of micromanagement from above.

The problem with Paradox is that at one point they became a cash rich company that striked gold with stuff like Cities Skylines. Their strategy games have a very real ceiling for growth, with a wealthy and (all things considered) overtly loyal fanbase that is nonetheless rather niche and has only so much time in their lives to dedicate to 5 different GSGs. Crusader Kings sounds like a mainstream success, but it's not even their biggest game - it's HoI4. For that reason Paradox tried shooting in every direction for another gold mine and mostly failed.

TCR's Bloodlines was meant to be them recouping their losses and TCR itself is over eager to make it clear it was them who wanted to try 'their own take on Vampire', which amounts of Cyberpunk WoD.

 

[Gargaune]

Going into 3rd person for takedowns is not something I'm a fan of. It's one of the things I hated in DXHR/MD.

You know, dude, sometimes God gives us these little gifts... Check out what I stumbled on five minutes ago, it's like it was made for you:

Uploaded: 29 Jan 2024

Deus Ex: Unreal Revolution is a mod for the original Deus Ex that acts as a parody of Deus Ex: Human Revolution while providing commentary on the video game industry and modern gameplay mechanics. Assume the role of a wrist blade equipped JC Denton and perform cinematic takedowns on your mission to rescue Tracer Tong.

Protips:

• The augmented reality goggles can be toggled on/off by selecting them and pressing "Fire"
• You can perform a lethal takedown on unalerted enemies by pressing "Use" when close to them
• Iron sights on the assault rifle can be activated by pressing the "Toggle Scope" key
• Health will automatically regenerate after a brief delay

 

[RagingNomad]