KickStarter Underworld Ascendant Pre-Release Thread

[LESS T_T]

New trailer:

 

[LESS T_T]

Gameplay video on IGN: http://www.ign.com/videos/2018/01/17/underworld-ascendant-multiple-choice-gameplay



Press previews:

"Underworld Ascendant’s Failures Are Part of The Fun": https://techraptor.net/content/underworld-ascendant-pax-south-2018

"The Kickstarter-funded Ultima Underworld sequel is still moving forward": https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/17/...ment-pax-south-immersive-sim-gameplay-preview

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Quite a few more fleshed out areas shown. Good to see they are keeping the darkness. I'm waiting to see oppressive tight areas.

 

[McPlusle]

Gameplay video on IGN:



Press previews:

"Underworld Ascendant’s Failures Are Part of The Fun": https://techraptor.net/content/underworld-ascendant-pax-south-2018

"The Kickstarter-funded Ultima Underworld sequel is still moving forward": https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/17/...ment-pax-south-immersive-sim-gameplay-preview

I don't know if it's the video or the game but the frame rate is still looking pretty shoddy. The rest of the game looks excellent, though. The only problem is, I'm running out of time to play Underworld 1 and 2. I've had them for six years and still never played them. I better get my ass in gear.

 

[Infinitron]

Paul sounds like he has a sore throat. That New England winter...

 

[RoSoDude]

Gameplay video on IGN:



Press previews:

"Underworld Ascendant’s Failures Are Part of The Fun": https://techraptor.net/content/underworld-ascendant-pax-south-2018

"The Kickstarter-funded Ultima Underworld sequel is still moving forward": https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/17/...ment-pax-south-immersive-sim-gameplay-preview

I don't know if it's the video or the game but the frame rate is still looking pretty shoddy. The rest of the game looks excellent, though. The only problem is, I'm running out of time to play Underworld 1 and 2. I've had them for six years and still never played them. I better get my ass in gear.

Those + Arx Fatalis. I'm in the same boat, though I only got the games in the last 6 months.

 

[LESS T_T]

 

[Infinitron]

Paul says the game has become less of a traditional RPG as development has progressed.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

UU wasn't really a traditional RPG either but I still consider it my favourite.

 

[Jaesun]

I actually agree with him in not focusing on the "traditional classes" and such. But allowing a player to do things in their own way (immersive simulator). This is at the core of why all of the LG games were so fucking good. They seem to have not lost sight of that.

 

[Ash]

Well I hope it does still qualify as an RPG on some notable level. Like in how System Shock 2 sort of does but not really...or how Ultima Underworld definitely does despite having shit progression systems. Please please I hope this game doesn't have shit progression systems as is the norm for modern RPGs.

Also, Joe's beard is hilarious.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.othersideentertainment.com/forum/index.php?topic=1893.msg25226#msg25226

We'll have an official "mini-update" newsletter this Friday elaborating on some of the features and screenshots hinted at from today's articles, but if you have any immediate questions you'd like us to field, feel free to ask!

https://www.othersideentertainment.com/forum/index.php?topic=1893.msg25244#msg25244

There's still a lot of tweaks to be made (we're still in alpha, after all), but we appreciate all of your feedback! Draw distances, shadows, and adding more ambient sounds is an ongoing process as we shape up levels. All of the levels showcased in the video were chosen particularly because they were "wide open" and "well lit" for camera shots, but, as Flug noted, traversing the level is actually MUCH different when you're on the ground.

The Ripper is one of my favorite creatures, and I'm especially fond of him because when I first joined, he was just a green blob with vines sticking out of him! The first time I saw him, I thought he was a "cucumber monster", and was HORRIFIED when I stumbled upon his actual model. There's a LOT that the Ripper offers to the environment, which makes him fun to play around and with. (We briefly mentioned this bug in the 2nd Roundtable, but we used to have a bug where enemies and the player could bounce off of the Ripper like 50 feet in the air. I miss that bug...)

Good eye! Yes, the areas you saw in the video are all present in the Upper Erebus map. It's still missing some additional aspects of verticality we want to add, but you'll see this in the final game...

Going back to the "crawling on your knees in a tunnel" comment... there are a few "alternate pathways" that allow you to infiltrate areas just like that! And it does NOT feel safe, even when I know what's in there, so I rarely use it :') truly a path "not for the faint of heart"

 

[LESS T_T]

Another preview: http://www.usgamer.net/articles/und...ts-players-to-experiment-in-the-stygian-abyss

Succeeding with these various options unlocks Feats. Feats are how you level in Underworld Ascendant instead of killing scores of enemies. Finding unique solutions to problems gives you a Feat, which then unlocks skill points. The developers are playing through their own game and coming up with newer, weirder ways to play each time, which determines which Feats are in-game. As more people play Underworld Ascendant, the list of Feats grows.

The world is also changing and getting a bit worse as you play. Creatures from the lower levels are always slowly making their way upwards as the primordial nightmare Typhon slowly wakes up. You may clear an area only to see more deadly creatures later on. Or perhaps your own allies will occupy the space. There's also a little bit of "design-created variety", according to Fielder; it's not procedural generation, but occasionally there will be different paths and structures in the world.

 

[Ash]

Finding unique solutions to problems gives you a Feat, which then unlocks skill points.

So what the developers deem "standard" solutions to problems does not reward you a feat?

Sounds gay, playstyle-shoehorning and open to exploitation, and a far cry from methods they used in the past. But that's ultimately an assumption based on a lack of information.

 

[McPlusle]

The Feats system sounds iffy. It seems like it will inevitably have the problem Human Revolution had, in that its experience payouts differed on how you played, and as such, certain styles of play received more XP.

 

[Infinitron]

Not sure this going to be based on a repeatable "XP" system. It sounds like you have to keep coming up with new ways of doing things ("unique solutions", "coming up with newer, weirder ways to play each time"). If that's true it'll be sort of like character progression through unlocking achievements.

 

[Ash]

The Feats system sounds iffy. It seems like it will inevitably have the problem Human Revolution had, in that its experience payouts differed on how you played, and as such, certain styles of play received more XP.

Too right. Instead of looking at every problem as one of immersive survival and well, a problem, it's more looked to as "how can I get the most xp out of this?". "Hmm creatively disabling that trap will net me xp, I should do that instead of avoiding it/jumping over it". "Should I reload my save? Doing x, y and z may have produced better rewards". Becomes a meta-game of points instead of just playing the actual game and being immersed. Along with the many other downsides usually involved with such systems.

But we don't know for sure what they are going for, or what they have in mind for these drawbacks, if anything.

It's also worth noting that none of the people involved with late 90s Underworld-likes that featured prestigious RPG systems is on the team. The only LGS designer is Stellmach, who worked on Underworld (mediocre RPG systems) and Thief (no RPG systems). Yet still, benefit of the doubt I guess. They've been nagged about this on the forums, and I'm sure they're not oblivious to what their peers did.

It sounds like you have to keep coming up with new ways of doing things ("unique solutions").

Why even bother featuring whatever they deem standard solutions if the design heavily penalises it? XP/Level ups/Character progression is always the most valuable type of reward in RPGs, has so much influence on playstyle/player mentality. They had these problems nailed to a tee with the likes of Shock 2 and Deus Ex.

As usual though, we've just got very little to go on. Still sounds like decline nonetheless.

 

[Infinitron]

I edited my post.

As usual though, we've just got very little to go on. Still sounds like decline nonetheless.

Between the decline seen in nu-Deus Ex and Dishonored (taking out enemies the same "standard" way over and over again) and this decline, I choose this decline. At the very least it's something new. They're trying to solve a problem the AAAs don't have the balls to.

 

[LESS T_T]

Little more details from the Verge preview:

Players can earn experience by unlocking achievement-like “feats” with different actions.

Underworld Ascendant will give players “Memora” (basically, currency) when they complete quests, but their reward also depends on how much they’ve combined different gameplay elements, or used systems they haven’t tried before. OtherSide has fielded complaints about whether this focus on gameplay achievements will make the world feel less immersive. But Fielder says it’s supposed to tie into the story — which is about a human who’s drawn into the game’s underground Stygian Abyss, and must fight a mythological “primordial nightmare” called Typhon. (No relation to Prey’s enemies, which are also known as the Typhon.)

“Ultimately, the tired old ways of the past aren’t going to dispatch Typhon. You really need a creative, innovative mind to do this,” says Fielder. The game’s factions will also favor different gameplay styles — a fungal hive mind called the Shamblers will get angry if you use too much fire, for example, and another faction might love melee combat.

 

[Infinitron]

"used systems they haven’t tried before", there you go.

 

[Ash]

Players can earn experience by unlocking achievement-like “feats” with different actions.

Underworld Ascendant will give players “Memora” (basically, currency) when they complete quests, but their reward also depends on how much they’ve combined different gameplay elements, or used systems they haven’t tried before. OtherSide has fielded complaints about whether this focus on gameplay achievements will make the world feel less immersive. But Fielder says it’s supposed to tie into the story — which is about a human who’s drawn into the game’s underground Stygian Abyss, and must fight a mythological “primordial nightmare” called Typhon. (No relation to Prey’s enemies, which are also known as the Typhon.)

Gay shit. Only innovate if the results are decidedly good. "But...but it ties into muh story!"...yeah that'll help on some very small level with one of the drawbacks (immersion dampening), yet still decline.

"Ultimately, the tired old ways of the past..."

Few games feature such prestigious design as some of the classics. Hasn't even got close to a point of tired. It's extremely rare, and should be recognised, standardised and taught. There's plenty other areas where one could have innovated. Sadly there was no other direction but down from Shock 2/Deus Ex when it comes to reward methods as it applies to the Immersive Sim concept. S'pose I should keep an open mind since we still don't know every detail, but I'm not in the slightest hopeful.

 

[hello friend]

Ultima Ascendant: Tony Hawk

 

[Ash]

Chain a wall run ride into a box float ride into grinding on enemies heads with your floating box for MAXIMUM STYLE POINTS!

In damn near every game with style/points systems that are highly relevant to gameplay it dictates nearly everything you do on some level. Fine in Tony Hawks, that's nearly what it's all about in its entirety, but Underworld likes are meant to be far more than that.

I just finished the Punisher, where the game is all about maximum style as it rewards more upgrade points and unlocks gold medals/bonus stages. You don't play the game as a shooter in the same way you do Doom or classic pre-cover mechanic third person shooters (that are actually good). The gameplay revolves entirely around not getting shot once (little room for error), and doing everything for maximum style. The result is still enjoyable, but it does force one sole rigid way of playing despite intending to encourage diversity: mixing up actions reward more points, just as it does in Underworld Ascendant, but this FORCES you to always mix things up in equal quantity. No favoritism allowed. You take a liking that one gun or interrogation method, nope you get less points for overuse. despite the game being run and gunny mechanics, you're encouraged to abuse cover and human shields to avoid getting shot (and thereby losing your score multiplier). And for some reason the game penalizes you in points for interrogation executions which is odd, cos you know, it's the fucking punisher.
If you don't play it this way, you're rewarded less, and the overall gamelay is pretty damn easy. the challenge comes from this system.
Still not a bad game though. Not a shitty modern third person cover shooter. And whatever applies to The Punisher or Tony Hawks may not necessarily apply to UA (100 shekels says most of it will).

Oh well, we all know deep down that nobody wants to make, or sees it feasible to make, or doesn't understand how to make truly prestigious works of art like Looking Glass and its kin did back then anymore. Expect decline from Shock 3 and Shock 1 Reboot also.

Also, have a punisher video if you want to see what a non-shitty non-cover shooting bollocks third person shooter looks like, for those that never played TPS pre-2007:

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Well they certainly have the people who know how to make LGS classics. The question is can this crop pull it off?

A big secret of those games IMO was you had the right visionaries and had young talent that grew in leaps and bounds while on those projects. Attracting and retaining the right people is key, but algo and systems people don't have to be old guard... They weren't on the classics either. Vision, leadership and creative freedom are most important.

I don't envy their task because they are trying to follow the first and still very best example of a genre they defined. They can't consider themselves truly free creatively because people look for every opportunity to hold what they are doing up to the light next to the symbolic importance of the original.

Listen to, but don't be afraid to completely discount what fans tell you I say. LGS made magic with no help from us, they should put aside every trope their game formed and do something wild. It might fail, but if it doesn't it will be better for not having been held down to someone else's expectations. It should be their baby to get their best, not ours.

I expect an LGS game. Anything beyond that I am open to being surprised.

 

[RoSoDude]

Great, so we have the Nu Deus Ex games giving micro-rewards for every action you could ever take, Arkane thinking that playstyle choice should be boiled down to picking one of two binary upgrade paths or abstaining from upgrades entirely, and now Underworld Ascendant concerning itself with how many cool style points you rack up.

Why not just reward the player for objective completion and maybe a bit of exploration, full stop? Coming up with creative solutions should be intrinsically rewarded by the game systems -- crushing the robots in SS2's Cargo Bays with elevators saved me a bunch of ammo and weapon durability, which was its own reward along with the satisfaction of having thought to do it and having the skill to pull it off. You're pushed to adapt with novel approaches by resource scarcity, difficult encounters, and your own carefully constructed plans going off the rails.

Moreover, how would such a system properly track every possible creative solution? Will it simply recognize that you used a particular interaction, like igniting a gas cloud with a fire arrow, or dropping some physics objects on an enemy? Or will it elaborately track how you chained together specific interactions, noting all the possible combinations? In the former case, you're incentivized to have as broad a playstyle as possible, perhaps even to the point of taking superfluous actions just to fool the engine into thinking you were playing more creatively. If the latter, doesn't that openly expose that the illusion of a simulated world is just smoke and mirrors? Rather than thinking you as a player managed to come up with an emergent solution based on the systemic interactions, you're blatantly made aware you've actually just picked one of the solutions the devs already thought of. While this is certainly true of most solutions in every Immersive Sim, outright telling the player "oh yeah, but we already planned for you to do that" really puts a damper on the whole experience. Imagine how a truly creative solution could fly completely under the radar of such a dynamic reward system as well.

With how many obvious ways this could go wrong, I don't see the advantage. Reward systems agnostic to your style of play put up the fewest barriers to player expression, as the only invalid playstyle is the one that doesn't advance your goals. And in an open-ended possibility space chock full of systemic depth and simulated interactivity, what better motivator is there than "it gets the job done, my way"?