Underrail - Serbian pillow talk, turning Tricks, taking tips

[Lhynn]

It's quite obvious, but only just occurred to me. Drop your Stygian coins on the floor before buying anything at SGS, so you don't have to deal with the bad autopricing.

Genious!
I also drop anything a vendor can buy just near them and save myself from unneeded weight.

Try doing this when you have over 25k stygian coins.
Honestly dont understand why stacks are even needed.

At this stage surely you stop giving a fuck what currency you use.

Nope, SGS kinda becomes worthless, so you use it the very few times you can.
The money sinks in this game are p. insane too, so you never have too much money.

Where are those money sinks? You seem to have more than enough money for everything you could want after Junkyard, but none of my characters have gone beyond ~level 16 yet.

And surely nobody gives a fuck about the 'house'.

Crafting, house is important for crafting, super metal plates are important for crafting, and end game merchants stock on high quality stuff that you dont want to miss. ATM im lvl 23 and got like 2.5k stygian coins.

 

[hell bovine]

Speaking of grenades, this is my current draft of the "no crafting, no hacking/lockpicking/traps final destination" character as a variant of Pope Amole's psion build.

3-6-3-7-3-10-8
Skills (all max, all the time): Thought Control, Psychokinesis, Metathermics, Intimidate, Throwing, Dodge, Evasion, Pickpocket (maybe Persuasion instead of Pickpocket, but I really want to try it out)
Key feats: all relevant psi feats, Yell, Grenadier, Fast Metabolism, Deflection, Nimble
Unarmed (for Deflection), using grenades and misc throwing items (throwing knives only for poison utility, not damage) in quickslots. Light armor for Nimble except for specific heavy armor in Certain Plot Fights.

Are there any obvious flaws in this concept (and would it be possible to make a guns or melee psi hybrid without spreading attribute points too thin)? I'm not much of a theorycrafter.

Heavy armor requires strength, unless you mean vests. And I am not sure how much use you'll get out of yell, considering with all three psi skills you will have plenty of disabling spells, plus flashbangs and cocktails. Incapacitating the enemy makes their offensive skills irrelevant. (e.g. locus of control, followed by mass fear) The rest depends on the psi feats you are planning to take. But without crafting, I'd go for only 6 intelligence (required for premeditation) and move the points to either dexterity or constitution. With 7 in dexterity you can take escape artist, which combined with locus of control should let you remove most nasty effects.

Personally, I think psi hybrids are better off than pure psi users, because of the psi points limitation. I'm not sure about guns, but psychokinesis was made for unarmed melee. For a gunslinger I would probably take only thought control with a sprinkle of psychokinesis (just enough to get the force field spell and the force user feat), because for metathermics you need a few more feats to make them rock. Taking just force user, premeditation, mental subversion and locus of control for psi feats should leave you enough for guns. But I don't play guns, so that is just a guess.

 

[Zetor]

Yea, for heavy armor I meant very specific stuff like the fire proximity suit and the biohazard suit (they both have like 80+% armor penalty). I'd only be wearing them for certain encounters, and go with light armor most of the time to benefit from nimble + deflection and (relatively) high dodge/evasion skill.

The thing with yell is that it's free to use and AFAIK unstealths everyone, so I figured it would be good against lurkers and crawlers, especially since I'm dumping PER. I also saw a lot of encounters in Deep Caverns with tons of tough enemies where I'd want to make sure that they can't hit me even if they're immune to control... so debuff their accuracy and hope they don't get through my dodge/evasion. There's a psi ability that does this, but it has a longish cooldown.

Good point about dropping INT a bit for (pre)meditation, but won't that gimp regeneration too much? I suppose most fights will be over in the first two turns while I'm still at 125 psi and benefiting from Tranquility as well. I definitely want to keep all three psi disciplines -- after all, having so many skillpoints freed up makes them probably the best investment overall! Other than Locus, I was looking at Force User and probably Pyromaniac to help with damage/control (Force User + forcefield is ridiculously powerful, plus there are the combos with PK proxy + premeditation + TK punch...) and Neural Overload to make things hurt. Cryogenic induction is probably overkill on the control side of things.

I was figuring a throwing hybrid with psi because throwing doesn't benefit THAT much from crafting (as opposed to something like crossbow, which is pretty gimped if you don't have mechanics and at least some chem/bio). Guns are probably out -- I played a Psychokinesis-guns hybrid in my first playthrough and while it was OK for much of the content that could be 'rushed down', it became rather annoying and weak in the Deep Caverns. It's essentially limited to energy pistols and SMGs, but without the supporting talents or AP reduction. Assault rifles and snipers are right out due to STR requirements. Do you think melee could work with just fists / fist weapons at low STR but decent DEX?

 

[Beastro]

For those looking for a good sniper rifle side arm I recommend this unique assault rifle: http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Steyr-Auch

5 str req, good narrow but decently high damage range and decent crit stats and precisions, plus it's also fairly long ranged for an assault rifle a fact that made it fairly annoying to duel the guy once the rest of his buddies were down (and I'd forgotten my hypos when I'd loot dumped before going to hunt him, he was the only one able to hit me behind the field of traps I'd laid outside his house).

I hex edited and dropped my str to 5 and raised dex to 7, then realized I'd sold the MP5 quite awhile ago and it was the only SMG that really appealed to me.

It's essentially limited to energy pistols and SMGs, but without the supporting talents or AP reduction. Assault rifles and snipers are right out due to STR requirements. Do you think melee could work with just fists / fist weapons at low STR but decent DEX?

Dunno if it might help, but the Dragunov sniper rifle has no str req: http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dragunov

Besides that and the l25 ap cost it's nothing special, but for what you're talking about it might be a good opening weapon, if only to let you start combat at range and lure people into traps before getting up close.

Now that you brought it up I'm actually going to go for it and use it for that very reason if I ever get around to trying a melee or psi build out since there's nothing to lose by doing so.

 

[hell bovine]

Yea, for heavy armor I meant very specific stuff like the fire proximity suit and the biohazard suit (they both have like 80+% armor penalty). I'd only be wearing them for certain encounters, and go with light armor most of the time to benefit from nimble + deflection and (relatively) high dodge/evasion skill.

The thing with yell is that it's free to use and AFAIK unstealths everyone, so I figured it would be good against lurkers and crawlers, especially since I'm dumping PER. I also saw a lot of encounters in Deep Caverns with tons of tough enemies where I'd want to make sure that they can't hit me even if they're immune to control... so debuff their accuracy and hope they don't get through my dodge/evasion. There's a psi ability that does this, but it has a longish cooldown.

Good point about dropping INT a bit for (pre)meditation, but won't that gimp regeneration too much? I suppose most fights will be over in the first two turns while I'm still at 125 psi and benefiting from Tranquility as well. I definitely want to keep all three psi disciplines -- after all, having so many skillpoints freed up makes them probably the best investment overall! Other than Locus, I was looking at Force User and probably Pyromaniac to help with damage/control (Force User + forcefield is ridiculously powerful, plus there are the combos with PK proxy + premeditation + TK punch...) and Neural Overload to make things hurt. Cryogenic induction is probably overkill on the control side of things.

I was figuring a throwing hybrid with psi because throwing doesn't benefit THAT much from crafting (as opposed to something like crossbow, which is pretty gimped if you don't have mechanics and at least some chem/bio). Guns are probably out -- I played a Psychokinesis-guns hybrid in my first playthrough and while it was OK for much of the content that could be 'rushed down', it became rather annoying and weak in the Deep Caverns. It's essentially limited to energy pistols and SMGs, but without the supporting talents or AP reduction. Assault rifles and snipers are right out due to STR requirements. Do you think melee could work with just fists / fist weapons at low STR but decent DEX?

I doubt that you will notice the difference in regeneration if you drop 2 points of intelligence. I am playing a psi mage with just metathermics, psychokinesis and grenades, and those three have been enough so far (atm just before deep caverns, killed her way through the tchort institute) to deal with all enemies. A build with thought control is going to be much stronger and should have even less trouble. You don't really need crafting, since the best grenades are flashbangs, emp and cocktails, and out of those three only cocktails benefit from crafting.

And I think I saw an unarmed melee/psychokinesis build somewhere (probably Underrail forums) with low strength, that relied on high dexterity to get a ridiculous number of attacks, augmented by psi. Definitely doable, probably even one of the strongest characters you can make.

 

[Zetor]

Yea, I didn't think about Lightning Punches (8 dex)... that's a lot of potential damage with maxed PK skill. Gotta see if I have enough feats to pick it up at one point.

Thanks for the input, btw, I got some good ~feels~ about this build!

 

[Excidium II]

Nimble is a lot worse than I thought lulz.

 

[Lhynn]

Nimble is a lot worse than I thought lulz.

its a 30% bonus to dodge and evasion and a 15% bonus to MP and stealth.

 

[Excidium II]

Nimble is a lot worse than I thought lulz.

its a 30% bonus to dodge and evasion and a 15% bonus to MP and stealth.

I used to think it was a direct 30 and 15 increease on respective stats.

Anyway there are so many more fun/strong feats, feel like I waste just getting some increase on RNG stats that I can increase with items and consumables anyway.

 

[Goromorg]

Yea, I didn't think about Lightning Punches (8 dex)... that's a lot of potential damage with maxed PK skill. Gotta see if I have enough feats to pick it up at one point.

Thanks for the input, btw, I got some good ~feels~ about this build!

Or you can go armor heavy route to make unstopabble psi juggernaut. Something like this http://underrail.info.tm/?build=AwG...A5c68GHCYW4j9GRS4aQJQSFPArxhubDgk8aoGjFKtgUIA

 

[Lhynn]

Nimble is a lot worse than I thought lulz.

its a 30% bonus to dodge and evasion and a 15% bonus to MP and stealth.

I used to think it was a direct 30 and 15 increease on respective stats.

Anyway there are so many more fun/strong feats, feel like I waste just getting some increase on RNG stats that I can increase with items and consumables anyway.

I hate armor penalty tho, and a loss in movement points is a big deal with lightly armored builds.

 

[Zetor]

Yea, I didn't think about Lightning Punches (8 dex)... that's a lot of potential damage with maxed PK skill. Gotta see if I have enough feats to pick it up at one point.

Thanks for the input, btw, I got some good ~feels~ about this build!

Or you can go armor heavy route to make unstopabble psi juggernaut. Something like this http://underrail.info.tm/?build=AwG...A5c68GHCYW4j9GRS4aQJQSFPArxhubDgk8aoGjFKtgUIA

Well yeah, but one of the main concepts I want in the build is no crafting (or lockpick/hacking) whatsoever, and heavier armor builds seem to require that more than most...

 

[Excidium II]

Nimble is a lot worse than I thought lulz.

its a 30% bonus to dodge and evasion and a 15% bonus to MP and stealth.

I used to think it was a direct 30 and 15 increease on respective stats.

Anyway there are so many more fun/strong feats, feel like I waste just getting some increase on RNG stats that I can increase with items and consumables anyway.

I hate armor penalty tho, and a loss in movement points is a big deal with lightly armored builds.

Yeah it's not straight up trap option but most light-armored builds are so feat starved, specially if they craft.

 

[Lhynn]

Nimble is a lot worse than I thought lulz.

its a 30% bonus to dodge and evasion and a 15% bonus to MP and stealth.

I used to think it was a direct 30 and 15 increease on respective stats.

Anyway there are so many more fun/strong feats, feel like I waste just getting some increase on RNG stats that I can increase with items and consumables anyway.

I hate armor penalty tho, and a loss in movement points is a big deal with lightly armored builds.

Yeah it's not straight up trap option but most light-armored builds are so feat starved, specially if they craft.

Not really, you are probably picking some unnecesary feats, list them.

 

[Excidium II]

Not really, you are probably picking some unnecesary feats, list them.

Example, x-bow/traps/stealth man

Level 1:
Aimed Shot
Marksman or Opportunist
Level 2:
Interloper
Level 4:
Knee Cap or Vile Weaponry or Concussive Shots
Level 6:
Snipe
Level 8:
Special Tactics
Level 10:
Sharpshooter
Level 12:
One of the OR feats up there, Ambush or some traps feat
Level 14:
Deadly Snares
Level 16:
Finally some freedom, or not if you want to craft armor

Throwing/Knifer is even worse in that respect.

 

[Tigranes]

Half of those are not must picks, though they are all good picks. Interloper, Knee Cap, Vile Weaponry, Concussive Shots, Ambush, are definitely not necessary for an efficient xbower.

 

[Zetor]

Arguably Snipe is skippable as well... it may be ok early on, but starting in early midgame you'll have a 125% crit bonus xbow that will outdamage it with aimed shot. Once you get Critical Power, Snipe is basically obsolete.

I skipped it, didn't miss it all the way until the endgame (it DOES have some use against crit-immune enemies, but I didn't know those were going to be a thing).

 

[Excidium II]

Without snipe might as well not play stealthy bowman...loses the whole flavor.

Half of those are not must picks, though they are all good picks. Interloper, Knee Cap, Vile Weaponry, Concussive Shots, Ambush, are definitely not necessary for an efficient xbower.

Stealth is unplayable without interloper, it's bad enough you can't pick in level 1. Those ones are optional as I listed them so anyway. But then if you don't get them you're gonna be forced to get some trapping or crafting at level 4.

Still vile weaponry is strongly flarvoful with bear traps and shit, along with poison. Hell I forgot Hypertoxicity.

 

[Zetor]

Aimed Shot is basically Snipe, is all I'm saying. Most of the time you'll use it as an opener and then gtfo to hide behind your trap fortress, so by the time your victims are lined up (and aren't sitting in bear traps for free criticals), it should be up again.

 

[Excidium II]

Aimed Shot is basically Snipe, is all I'm saying. Most of the time you'll use it as an opener and then gtfo to hide behind your trap fortress, so by the time your victims are lined up (and aren't sitting in bear traps for free criticals), it should be up again.

It's snipe without a bleed that ignores mechanical defenses (which crossbow suffers against)

 

[Goromorg]

Not really, you are probably picking some unnecesary feats, list them.

Example, x-bow/traps/stealth man

Level 1:
Aimed Shot
Marksman or Opportunist
Level 2:
Interloper
Level 4:
Knee Cap or Vile Weaponry or Concussive Shots
Level 6:
Snipe
Level 8:
Special Tactics
Level 10:
Sharpshooter
Level 12:
One of the OR feats up there, Ambush or some traps feat
Level 14:
Deadly Snares
Level 16:
Finally some freedom, or not if you want to craft armor

Throwing/Knifer is even worse in that respect.

http://underrail.info.tm/?build=AwG...gA5spWRXnTyyy9WhCQQqcNLHEokKLlHpR4UbAhgJsTTEA
That's my current build. Quick tinkering is a must on lvl 4. Knee Cap and Vile Weaponry aren't that good in this build. Concussive Shots were bugged and crashed the game. Do they now? Overall it's a meh feat.
Quck pockets are a necessity cause arrows are five per quiver and you will run out of utility slots without this and utility belt. AP cost reduction also comes in handy.
Tornado and cyclone crossbows are underestimated. Tornado has highest damage and low spread and shots from cyclone with pneumatic reloader costs 17 AP. Thats 4 shot per turn with adrenal shot and 2 shots and a grenade/knife toss without it.

PS The problem of many crafting builds is the carry weight, especially of this one, because you are always stacked on traps. If you want to make your life easier use carry weight cheat http://forum.cheatengine.org/viewtopic.php?t=581839

 

[Tyko]

Yea, I didn't think about Lightning Punches (8 dex)... that's a lot of potential damage with maxed PK skill. Gotta see if I have enough feats to pick it up at one point.

Thanks for the input, btw, I got some good ~feels~ about this build!

Or you can go armor heavy route to make unstopabble psi juggernaut. Something like this http://underrail.info.tm/?build=AwG...A5c68GHCYW4j9GRS4aQJQSFPArxhubDgk8aoGjFKtgUIA

I'm actually trying a heavy psi build, myself, and was actually going to post the build and ask about its viability for the late game. I can use varying armor types depending on the situation with Tabi boots for movement increases, and a sledgehammer for melee range.

STR 8 [9]
DEX 3
AGI 3
CON 6
PER 3
WIL 10 [15]
INT 7

Melee Max
Hacking to 130 effective
Lockpicking to 130 effective with eel sandwich (+1 dex)
Electronics 90+ (whatever's left for shields, psi headbands)
Biology to 70 effective for all meds
Thought Control Max
Psychokinetics Max
Metathermics Max
Persuasion ~150 effective
Intimidation to 150 effective

Doctor and Fast Metabolism at the start.
Tranquility
Force User
Premeditation
Meditation
Yell
Locus of Control
Flesh out with other Psionic Feats, Conditioning?


I keep reading about what a hellhole DC is, though, so I'm curious about how a non-stealth heavy build will do.

 

[Zetor]

Aimed Shot is basically Snipe, is all I'm saying. Most of the time you'll use it as an opener and then gtfo to hide behind your trap fortress, so by the time your victims are lined up (and aren't sitting in bear traps for free criticals), it should be up again.

It's snipe without a bleed that ignores mechanical defenses (which crossbow suffers against)

Does snipe bleed (and for how much)? I didn't see that on the feat description... but even if so, in most encounters aimed shot from stealth = dead enemy anyway. Many of the enemies who aren't one-shot material (cf. robots) will be immune to bleeds. If you're facing more than one hard target, your best opener is a grenade, even with 0 throwing skill.

 

[Excidium II]

Concussive Shots were bugged and crashed the game.

w0t

Thanks btw.

 

[Excidium II]

Aimed Shot is basically Snipe, is all I'm saying. Most of the time you'll use it as an opener and then gtfo to hide behind your trap fortress, so by the time your victims are lined up (and aren't sitting in bear traps for free criticals), it should be up again.

It's snipe without a bleed that ignores mechanical defenses (which crossbow suffers against)

Does snipe bleed? I didn't see that on the feat description... but even if so, in most encounters aimed shot from stealth = dead enemy anyway. Many of the enemies who aren't one-shot material (cf. robots) will be immune to bleeds.

Oh nvm, snipe doesn't bleed. I confused it with the knife one.