Interview TotalBiscuit Interviews Adam Brennecke

[J_C]

Hay guise, I'm making a spiritual successor to Ultima Underworld. Oh yeah, which current games have influenced your ideas and design the most? Well, mostly Fallout 3, Skyrim, Mass Effect, Fable -- actually, I've been eating nothing but fecal matter for the past 9 months so I'm really inspired.

Except they never said that this is a spiritual successor to NWN2 and that they get the inspiriation from that game.

 

[Infinitron]

We've reached an incredible new level of Codex edginess - you can't even say that a good game belongs to the same genre as a bad game.

Because that's like a slippery slope and before you know it you've got gay elf romances and health regeneration.

 

[St. Toxic]

Poor analogy. None of those games are as similar to Ultima Underworld as Dragon Age is to Baldur's Gate.

Except they never said that this is a spiritual successor to NWN2 and that they get the inspiriation from that game.

Make up your own analogy, I just wanted to compare a good game to some shitty ones whether or not it makes any sense. If you want similarities, two of the games are in first person and two hype up c&c.

Also, what's this about "influence"? That's not what the question was and Adam Brennecke is not the game designer anyway.

I wasn't really paying attention, seeing as it is a TotalBiscuit interview. It's not like there's any distinction. If you compare your cooking to a pile of shit, you're either admitting that you failed as a chef or it's the result you've been striving for all along.

We've reached an incredible new level of Codex edginess - you can't even say that a good game belongs to the same genre as a bad game.

Who said PE is going to be good? Besides, he was all over DA. "Aw heck dawg, if we could make a half-assed DA clone, my life would be complete."

 

[Oesophagus]

"Aw heck dawg, if we could make a half-assed DA clone, my life would be complete."

In terms of sales - sure. But what this guy likes has no bearing on what influences PE will draw on. So now you're just arguing whether he's a popamole casual

 

[Infinitron]

Yes. Seriously Toxic, you're usually a better poster than this. If you want to scrutinize somebody's words, go have a look at Josh Sawyer's posts on SomethingAwful, or something. Not some dumb promotional interview with a bean counter on Youtube.

 

[St. Toxic]

Look guys, this interview clearly proves what I said during the KS -- PE is next-gen popamole without any of the improvements of current-gen technology. They're just trying to do a low-budget DA clone, using Sawyer, MCA and Cain as advertisement and drawing in game-starved rpg elitists the same way DA did.

In terms of sales - sure. But what this guy likes has no bearing on what influences PE will draw on. So now you're just arguing whether he's a popamole casual

There's no argument on that front, he's obviously a popamole casual -- not to mention a filthy, asocial liberal to boot. The actual argument is whether or not this is indicative of where the project is heading, and it should be pretty clear for anyone not wearing their rose-tinted Obsidian goggles.

Yes. Seriously Toxic, you're usually a better poster than this. If you want to scrutinize somebody's words, go have a look at Josh Sawyer's posts on SomethingAwful, or something.

Thanks, but my mind was made up when they announced it was a fixed perspective game about some half-elf dwarves battling ancient evil, flying around in an airship while their dota-inspired skills went on cooldown.

Not some dumb promotional interview with a bean counter on Youtube.

Sure, blame the interview for bad design.

 

[Infinitron]

Considering removing all my brofists from your Wasteland 2 posts

 

[Brother None]

Wait, so uh, you don't agree with the assessment that both Dragon Age: Origins and Project Eternity are similar attempts at (if you're optimistic) bringing back the Infinity Engine good stuff or (if you're pessimistic) cashing in on IE nostalgia? I'm not saying that has to be a bad thing, DA:O was a decent game and if my pledge to PE nets me a game of similar quality I wouldn't be upset. Toxic doesn't like it, but it doesn't have to be for everyone.

I feel like I'm missing something here. In this whole thread. What's the vital disagreement here about?

 

[St. Toxic]

Oh no, please don't Infinitron. I'm nothing without my bro-fists!

Tard. As soon as you come across some truth you don't like, you instantly shit yourself and cry for mommy. Why don't you carry a ton of bricks and cement every day, maybe it'll widen your horizons about PE?

Wait, so uh, you don't agree with the assessment that both Dragon Age: Origins and Project Eternity are similar attempts at (if you're optimistic) bringing back the Infinity Engine good stuff or (if you're pessimistic) cashing in on IE nostalgia? I'm not saying that has to be a bad thing, DA:O was a decent game and if my pledge to PE nets me a game of similar quality I wouldn't be upset. Toxic doesn't like it, but it doesn't have to be for everyone.

If they just had a proper budget, they could've made a quality product like DA2. Instead they're shooting for DA and NWN2, which is pure shit, while pretending they're trying to bring back BG-era games to the scene. I mean, fuck, the only redeeming thing about NWN2 was camera controls.

 

[Infinitron]

Wait, so uh, you don't agree with the assessment that both Dragon Age: Origins and Project Eternity are similar attempts at (if you're optimistic) bringing back the Infinity Engine good stuff or (if you're pessimistic) cashing in on IE nostalgia? I'm not saying that has to be a bad thing, DA:O was a decent game and if my pledge to PE nets me a game of similar quality I wouldn't be upset. Toxic doesn't like it, but it doesn't have to be for everyone.

I feel like I'm missing something here. In this whole thread. What's the vital disagreement here about?

I think Toxic would be offended by any comparison between DA:O and the Infinity Engine games. They're nothing alike! NOTHING!! How dare you even think about them at the same time?

 

[wormix]

The interpretation of the statement "like dragon age" to mean either "what dragon age tried to do" or "we're copying dragon age".

 

[Zeriel]

Wait, so uh, you don't agree with the assessment that both Dragon Age: Origins and Project Eternity are similar attempts at (if you're optimistic) bringing back the Infinity Engine good stuff or (if you're pessimistic) cashing in on IE nostalgia? I'm not saying that has to be a bad thing, DA:O was a decent game and if my pledge to PE nets me a game of similar quality I wouldn't be upset. Toxic doesn't like it, but it doesn't have to be for everyone.

I feel like I'm missing something here. In this whole thread. What's the vital disagreement here about?

To be fair, I loved BG 1 & 2 and loathed Dragon Age (Origins, setting 2 aside because everyone hates it), and I somehow doubt I'm alone in that. Them calling back to DA (in a lot of ways, not just here, see cooldowns) is a little worrisome. That said, don't agree with St. Toxic in this thread, we haven't seen nearly enough to decide whether PE is just another form of Dragon Age mediocrity.

 

[Grunker]

Dragon Age is to Baldur's Gate what Fallout 3 is to Ultima Underworld

 

[St. Toxic]

I think Toxic would be offended by any comparison between DA:O and the Infinity Engine games. They're nothing alike! NOTHING!! How dare you even think about them at the same time?

The only good thing about DA was what set it apart from IE games, which is full-3d graphics.

 

[Oesophagus]

The actual argument is whether or not this is indicative of where the project is heading, and it should be pretty clear for anyone not wearing their rose-tinted Obsidian goggles.

This isn't indicative of anything. It was an off-the-cuff remark by one of the devs about what game in the last few years he most enjoyed, not an editorial about the last 10 years of gaming and why DA is the pinnacle of cRPGs.

And you're right that PE can turn out to be shit, it really can. But right now, nobody knows anything, as the interview clearly demonstrates - nothing of any substance was said. The only reasonable attitude to have at this point is wait and see.

 

[Infinitron]

Guys: It's a fucking TotalBiscuit interview. He was asked to compare the upcoming game with something TotalBiscuit listeners would be familiar with, to give them a frame of reference. These are not hardcore RPG players.

 

[St. Toxic]

Guys: It's a fucking TotalBiscuit interview. He was asked to compare the upcoming game with something TotalBiscuit listeners would be familiar with, to give them a frame of reference. These are not hardcore RPG players.

This isn't indicative of anything. It was an off-the-cuff remark by one of the devs about what game in the last few years he most enjoyed, not an editorial about the last 10 years of gaming and why DA is the pinnacle of cRPGs.

Oh, so this interview and its contents are in no way related to PE. I guess Obshittian fanboys always hear what they want to hear, huh.

And you're right that PE can turn out to be shit, it really can. But right now, nobody knows anything, as the interview clearly demonstrates - nothing of any substance was said. The only reasonable attitude to have at this point is wait and see.

They've given us more than enough information months ago, and every update just confirms what most of us already suspected.

 

[Infinitron]

"Most of us"? Speak for yourself, sir.

 

[Brother None]

I think Toxic has a point in saying you guys are dismissing it a little too easily. Not that I attribute much value to it but again, weren't Dragon Age: Origins' goals somewhat the same as Project Eternity? It is very nebulous what that means to the end product though. If DA:O failed or succeeded for you it did so for a variety of reasons, many of which PE won't replicate because each product is unique. But the ties between the two projects are there, even if DA:O veered away from its goals and was different for many reasons. There is some connection there, not just easy marketing throwaway line material. Not sure it's worth wasting too much energy on, though.

I didn't like the Infinity Engine or most games made on it, note.

Wait, St. Toxic why is their use of 2D important?

 

[Infinitron]

weren't Dragon Age: Origins' goals somewhat the same as Project Eternity?

I don't know. I tend to see Dragon Age's claims to be a BG spiritual successor as post-hoc rationalization, not an initial design goal. To me it looks more like the initial design goal for DA:O was "NWN, but with a controllable party and without D&D".

 

[St. Toxic]

Wait, St. Toxic why is their use of 2D important?

Just like TB pointed out in the interview, 2d is a way to make games on the cheap side; it inherently means lower graphical fidelity and game complexity. Now, if we're talking 15 or so years ago, that's all fine and dandy. What the games of that era lacked in actual gameplay mechanics and graphically immersive qualities, they made up for with great writing, humour and even content (seeing as 3d assets would put a hard limit on the amount of content that you could include).

Now, however, we're talking about a 2013 game cutting budget to bring essentially the same experience and quality of writing as DA:O but without any of the actual perks of said game. It's a money-grabbing scheme. Y'know, they probably could have pulled it off (though honestly, nobody wants a full-on DA:O clone anyway, with DA3 on the way) but instead they made a successful appeal to nostalgia. You could tell from TB's reaction that he was skeptical about the whole thing.

I mean, I suggested a shoulder-mounted cam early on, which would help a lot with game complexity and getting the player immersed in the world. They already made the step to rt-combat, which means tactics is out, so the next step seems fairly logical: get out of the 2d sinkhole. Obviously, their hearts aren't really in it for making this a good game.

I don't know. I tend to see Dragon Age's claims to be a BG spiritual successor as post-hoc rationalization, not an initial design goal. To me it looks more like the initial design goal for DA:O was "NWN, but with a controllable party and without D&D".

You don't remember their sales-campaign? "Like Baldur's Gate, but better!" What about all the BG references dropped during the romance sequences? The romances weren't even written seriously, it was just one BG joke after another. Too bad it wasn't like any Infinity Engine game.

Except maybe Torment, but that was more like a book than a game anyway.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh for fuck's sake. Please be a troll!

Brother None I think you're misinterpeting Toxic's approach here. He doesn't think PE will be like DA:O because they both strive to be IE successors. He thinks PE will be like DA:O, directly.

 

[Infinitron]

HEY GUIZE! Fallout New Vegas belongs to the same genre of game as Fallout 3! That means they both provide essentially the same experience and quality of writing!

 

[sea]

I think Toxic has a point in saying you guys are dismissing it a little too easily. Not that I attribute much value to it but again, weren't Dragon Age: Origins' goals somewhat the same as Project Eternity? It is very nebulous what that means to the end product though. If DA:O failed or succeeded for you it did so for a variety of reasons, many of which PE won't replicate because each product is unique. But the ties between the two projects are there, even if DA:O veered away from its goals and was different for many reasons. There is some connection there, not just easy marketing throwaway line material. Not sure it's worth wasting too much energy on, though.

Nah.

Dragon Age is "Baldur's Gate 2 made 3D, and simplified for wider audiences."

Project Eternity is more "Infinity Engine style 2D game with an original fantasy universe."

All you can really say is they are both inspired by older titles and that they are both party-based RPGs.

When did this shit become a thing, anyway? There are people on the codex that actually defend it.

To be fair it is actually good design. Rock-paper-scissors roles are easy to understand and create lots of interesting (if rigid) strategic systems and interactions. Most strategy games are based on this model because it creates a very clear set of upsides and downsides to every units; applying it to a top-down a multiplayer or party-based RPG is a fairly natural move. It does ultimately result in less flexibility but it can also be much easier to balance and generally it doesn't make combat significantly less fun. The problem with games using the rock-paper-scissors trinity have more problems with their encounter design and challenges than they do the character systems themselves.

 

[St. Toxic]

HEY GUIZE! Fallout New Vegas belongs to the same genre of game as Fallout 3! That means they both provide essentially the same experience and quality of writing!

Eh, they kind of do. Ok, so one game is about 4 people living in the crater after an unexploded nuclear bomb, while the other is about 4 guys dressed up as Roman soldiers living in a pool of toxic waste. Holy shit, it's evident which had the better writers.

Nah.

Dragon Age is "Baldur's Gate 2 made 3D, and simplified for wider audiences."

Project Eternity is more "Infinity Engine style 2D game with an original fantasy universe."

Yeah, in your dreams. It's clearly stated otherwise in the interview. The best we can hope for is camera controls similar to NWN2.