Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[hiver]

What i said has nothing to do with that. I was merely joking about TransfiguringRoar post that seems as if he doesnt know some already established facts about the game.

as far as im concerned nobody in their right mind should think this is a sequel to PST.
Its been clearly communicated since the idea of kickstarter first came about and everything so far clearly makes it a completely different game that is spiritual succesor to PST, nothing else.

But i would bet suddenly some people will just appear and be SHOCKED !

it kinda sounded like a pre-emptive strike. "We want this game to be REALLY good.. but it might not be, just so you know.."

Id did not sound like any such thing.

That was the Project Director coming out and nicely presenting additions to the team to the interested public, as a matter of transparency and clarity, which has been a staple of this project since the start.

 

[DosBuster]

Oh man, I'm trying not to get hyped. But just the fact inXile learnt from their mistakes with wasteland 2 really is starting to paint a nice picture, assuming Torment is good of course.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

I was thinking about starting a thread that I was going to title 'T:ToN: Are you prepared for the fact that it will be very different from PS:T?'.

I first thought to laugh at this but... maybe you should.

Alarm bells have gone off... Would rather you laugh now.

Maybe when InXile start the alpha/backer beta process I'll post some impressions along with others.

Edit:

But i would bet suddenly some people will just appear and be SHOCKED !

This is what I was thinking - those people will be out there.

In fact, I didn't back PoE because I wasn't convinced it would be as close to the infinity engine games as what it sounded like - thought I'd wait and see. I did back T:ToN fully aware it was going to be totally different, and it's something that keeps coming back to me.

"We want this game to be REALLY good.. but it might not be, just so you know.."

Not quite - rather it's going to be a new, unique experience that will have a different feel and flavor to PS:T. Many may be put off at first by it not having that same feel and/or vibe as PS:T.

Oh man, I'm trying not to get hyped. But just the fact inXile learnt from their mistakes with wasteland 2 really is starting to paint a nice picture, assuming Torment is good of course.

Haha, yeah, it's hard not to think about. :D

 

[SarcasticUndertones]

it kinda sounded like a pre-emptive strike. "We want this game to be REALLY good.. but it might not be, just so you know.."

Id did not sound like any such thing.

Well considering that it was inherently a subjective statement.. Telling me i'm wrong is rather redundant.

You're welcome to a different opinion, but that doesn't make me 'wrong'.

 

[Cyberarmy]

They have 9+ months preproduction stage, I'm pretty sure that TToNs writing is going to be much more better than WL2s. And WL2 already had some good writing so I'm not worried a bit.

ps. The whole team is also playing Planescape Torment every week to keep us grounded in what we are trying to accomplish ( i just found my way out of the Mortuary into the Hive…so I know I have a long way to go)

This is important stuff also. I'm really happy that they are doing this.

 

[SarcasticUndertones]

Not quite - rather it's going to be a new, unique experience that will have a different feel and flavor to PS:T. Many may be put off at first by it not having that same feel and/or vibe as PS:T.

Then why would they be making it this way?

You do realise this is actually WORSE than my comment.

At least my interpretation made allowances for a bad result when attempting a 'spiritual successor'... your interpretation doesn't even allow for the attempt.

See I don't really mind the end result if they try (as I said at worst it would be medioccre and I've played worse), I give points for a clear attempt... it's when devs start making up the rules up as they go along and start reneging on promises, that's when things get sticky... because I have ZERO problem calling out liars and obfuscater.. and tbh if the game is 'too' different, then I wouldn't consider Inxile to have kept their word... In all honesty, it's just as well I didn't back this, because if I didn't think that the game has earned my pledge then I'd get my monies worth in trashing those who'd failed to keep their word.

I already knew they had decided to move the goalposts when they ignored the feel of the combat for PS:T and started spouting about crises.... but now it actually turns out that they might not even be playing the same game... well, for those inclined.... THAT'S A MIGHT LOT OF MOTIVATION.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

all TTON has to match is Planescape Torment

 

[Infinitron]

Not to put words in their mouth, but it kinda sounded like a pre-emptive strike. "We want this game to be REALLY good.. but it might not be, just so you know.."

Sorry Kevin. :/.. not saying that IS what you were saying, it just kinda sounded that way.

Actually, that's pretty much what he said. For a given definition of "REALLY good", at least.

One of the...advantages of Kickstarter, is that developers can now "keep it real" instead of always going "SHITS GONNA BE AAAWESOME BEST RPG EVER GOTY OF ALL GOTYS" at the command of the marketing and PR departments.

However, as any pick up artist will tell you, many people - perhaps most people - interpret anything less than extreme overconfidence as an admission of failure and a weakness of character, so I don't think it's going to go away anytime soon.

 

[SarcasticUndertones]

I have to admit, this is Inxile's last chance to get it right.. Wasteland2 was a shadow of what was expected but it seemed to follow that they'd get better as they go along, if that isn't true for this, then at the end of the day there's no real reason to trust them again.

How come I've been more satisfied with publisher controlled and funded games than I have ever been (DFDC being the clear exception) when the devs are allowed to go it for themselves?... What's the score there?

Oh man, I'm trying not to get hyped. But just the fact inXile learnt from their mistakes with wasteland 2 really is starting to paint a nice picture, assuming Torment is good of course.

Could you qualify this statement please.

What do you mean by "learnt from their mistakes?".. In what way have they learned? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just having trouble in seeing how you're right.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

Then why would they be making it this way?

You do realise this is actually WORSE than my comment.

At least my interpretation made allowances for a bad result when attempting a 'spiritual successor'... your interpretation doesn't even allow for the attempt.

See I don't really mind the end result if they try (as I said at worst it would be medioccre and I've played worse), I give points for a clear attempt... it's when devs start making up the rules up as they go along and start reneging on promises, that's when things get sticky... because I have ZERO problem calling out liars and obfuscater.. and tbh if the game is 'too' different, then I wouldn't consider Inxile to have kept their word... In all honesty, it's just as well I didn't back this, because if I didn't think that the game has earned my pledge then I'd get my monies worth in trashing those who'd failed to keep their word.

I already knew they had decided to move the goalposts when they ignored the feel of the combat for PS:T and started spouting about crises.... but now it actually turns out that they might not even be playing the same game... well, for those inclined.... THAT'S A MIGHT LOT OF MOTIVATION.

lol, your post has done my head in a bit, SU.

T:ToN is the spiritual successor to PS:T. PS:T was like a crazy experiment, trying something different. What were you expecting InXile to do with this game if not make a new unique experience? Nothing could be more fitting than them making the big breaks they have from PS:T.

Half the excitement of a new experience is not knowing how it will be, making sense of it after is the other half.

I'm all fucking for it!

 

[SarcasticUndertones]

lol, your post has done my head in a bit, SU.

Yeah I get that alot.

So it's a 'spiritual sequel' only so far as in it's game and no-one know what the fudge it'll be like?

Dude, that's not much of a recommendation..

By 'spiritual sequel' I think most expected that it would have something in common with the original, otherwise it's just trading on the name.

How is there even the merest connection, if the game doesn't play like it, is canonically unrelated, the mechanics are different, encounter ethos is different, and it doesn't have any characters (which I already knew) from the original.. what makes it a 'successor' in any meaning of the word?

Because it has a long story?.. is that it?.. TBH the game their making doesn't really bear any resemblance to the promises they made.. I'm honestly sorry to be moaning about this.. but that's the sad fact.

 

[Infinitron]

I know that plenty of people on this forum, when they heard of this game's "Immortal Casting Off Bodies To Live Forever" premise, thought it was TOO obviously similar to PS:T.

 

[SarcasticUndertones]

I know that plenty of people on this forum, when they heard of this game's "Immortal Casting Off Bodies To Live Forever" premise, thought it was TOO obviously similar to PS:T.

oh.. that qualifies?

OK.. I'll have to change my dictionary.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

Yeah I get that alot.

You're alright, man! It takes decent guy to laugh at himself.

So it's a 'spiritual sequel' only so far as in it's game and no-one know what the fudge it'll be like?

Dude, that's not much of a recommendation..

By 'spiritual sequel' I think most expected that it would have something in common with the original, otherwise it's just trading on the name.

How is there even the merest connection, if the game doesn't play like it, is canonically unrelated, the mechanics are different, encounter ethos is different, and it doesn't have any characters (which I already knew) from the original.. what makes it a 'successor' in any meaning of the word?

Because it has a long story?.. is that it?.. TBH the game their making doesn't really bear any resemblance to the promises they made.. I'm honestly sorry to be moaning about this.. but that's the sad fact.

Because of the deep story and C&C - that's exactly it. That's what they pitched. Crazy hey? :D

I imagine though, if it's a success, that it'll become a brand/series.

Personally, I hope they come up with new stories each time if they make more Tides of Numenera games though. I wouldn't have a prob with referencing events from the other games.

I know that plenty of people on this forum, when they heard of this game's "Immortal Casting Off Bodies To Live Forever" premise, thought it was TOO obviously similar to PS:T.

I vaguely remember this. I understood the reasoning of those opinions, but I always thought it was (obviously) quite the opposite of The Nameless One.

 

[Lord Andre]

I wouldn't say Wasteland 2's writing was bad, more like bad area design and pacing spillt over into writing. I'm thinking of map resolutions being bottle necked into grimdark ending 1 or 2. Artificial plot barriers and deux ex machina all over the place.

I'm not sure if Nathan Long is a positive influence on the team but I have confidence in Colin reigning in any premadona attempts.

 

[SarcasticUndertones]

Yeah I get that alot.

You're alright, man! It takes decent guy to laugh at himself.

The absurdity of life pretty much demands it. :D

..Don't get me wrong, I have no problem accepting T:ToN as the start of itself, and under those conditions I'm even intrigued enough about it for it to be a purchase for me, I'm just of the opinion that they way it stands I have a hard time reconciling it's 'similarity' to PS:T.

Bear in mind though, my comments although 'serious' aren't a rage against it, when I begin to rage, it'll be pretty obvious.

 

[Gondolin]

I know that plenty of people on this forum, when they heard of this game's "Immortal Casting Off Bodies To Live Forever" premise, thought it was TOO obviously similar to PS:T.

I expect TTON to become the fourth game in a series (PS:T, KOTOR2, MOTB) that could well be called "De Vinculis in Genere". Actions, bonds/ties and consequences beyond a single lifespan.

 

[Infinitron]

I know that plenty of people on this forum, when they heard of this game's "Immortal Casting Off Bodies To Live Forever" premise, thought it was TOO obviously similar to PS:T.

I expect TTON to become the fourth game in a series (PS:T, KOTOR2, MOTB) that could well be called "De Vinculis in Genere". Actions, bonds/ties and consequences beyond a single lifespan.

Let's retroactively rename KOTOR2 and MotB to "Torment: Exile of the Force" and "Torment: Spirits of Rashemen"

 

[Gondolin]

Let's retroactively rename KOTOR2 to "Torment: Exile of the Force" and MotB to "Torment: Spirits of Rashemen"

MOTB = Torment: I Did It for Love.

 

[DollarSign]

I know that plenty of people on this forum, when they heard of this game's "Immortal Casting Off Bodies To Live Forever" premise, thought it was TOO obviously similar to PS:T.

I expect TTON to become the fourth game in a series (PS:T, KOTOR2, MOTB) that could well be called "De Vinculis in Genere". Actions, bonds/ties and consequences beyond a single lifespan.

Don't expect anything of the storytelling level of PST, TSL or MOTB, if you don't want to set yourself up for disappointment.

 

[ksaun]

Actually, that's pretty much what he said. For a given definition of "REALLY good", at least.

One of the...advantages of Kickstarter, is that developers can now "keep it real" instead of always going "SHITS GONNA BE AAAWESOME BEST RPG EVER GOTY OF ALL GOTYS" at the command of the marketing and PR departments.

However, as any pick up artist will tell you, many people - perhaps most people - interpret anything less than extreme overconfidence as an admission of failure and a weakness of character, so I don't think it's going to go away anytime soon.

Yes... I'm not exactly the poster child for generating hype. (This characteristic was not really an asset during the Kickstarter campaign. =) )

By 'spiritual sequel' I think most expected that it would have something in common with the original, otherwise it's just trading on the name.

Our thoughts about what it means for TTON to be a thematic successor to Planescape: Torment are summarized by the four pillars we defined during the Kickstarter campaign. It would be very valid to disagree with us, but we were not ambiguous about it.

How is there even the merest connection, if the game doesn't play like it, is canonically unrelated, the mechanics are different, encounter ethos is different, and it doesn't have any characters (which I already knew) from the original.. what makes it a 'successor' in any meaning of the word?

Because it has a long story?.. is that it?.. TBH the game their making doesn't really bear any resemblance to the promises they made.. I'm honestly sorry to be moaning about this.. but that's the sad fact.

I'm not aware of any "promise" we've made that we've broken, or any statement we've made that was false or deliberately misleading.

Don't expect anything of the storytelling level of PST, TSL or MOTB, if you don't want to set yourself up for disappointment.

Exactly! =)
The lower everyone's expectations, the higher the probability that we will meet them.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Don't expect anything of the storytelling level of PST, TSL or MOTB, if you don't want to set yourself up for disappointment.

Exactly! =)
The lower everyone's expectations, the higher the probability that we will meet them.

Just keep doing what you are doing. Whatever you did on MotB, do that again. Who knows what more could have been done in that game (bringing down the Wall, etc) if you weren't held back by the license.

 

[Infinitron]

ksaun, I can imagine some people's heads exploding at what you just posted.

Just keep doing what you are doing. Whatever you did on MotB, do that again. Who knows what more could have been done in that game (bringing down the Wall, etc) if you weren't held back by the license.

Well, strictly speaking, they are being "held back" by a license for this game as well. I don't think Monte Cook would approve of a plot that results in the destruction of the Steadfast or something.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

ksaun, I can imagine some people's heads exploding at what you just posted.

Just keep doing what you are doing. Whatever you did on MotB, do that again. Who knows what more could have been done in that game (bringing down the Wall, etc) if you weren't held back by the license.

Well, strictly speaking, they are being "held back" by a license for this game as well. I don't think Monte Cook would approve of a plot that results in the destruction of the Steadfast or something.

At least he's actually working on the game though. I'm sure they can just go up to him and talk to him about ideas. I remember George Ziets saying he wanted to add more stuff into MotB but was worried that Wizards of the Coast would say no. Then WotC ended up doing similar things in the new edition of D&D - if they had just asked WotC, maybe they would have been able to do it.

I think it is that lack of communication (or the opposite, strongarming/being told what to do) which has held these guys back in the past and maybe having Monte Cook on the team means that is less likely to happen for TTON.

Only the devs know for sure.

 

[SarcasticUndertones]

By 'spiritual sequel' I think most expected that it would have something in common with the original, otherwise it's just trading on the name.

Our thoughts about what it means for TTON to be a thematic successor to Planescape: Torment are summarized by the four pillars we defined during the Kickstarter campaign. It would be very valid to disagree with us, but we were not ambiguous about it.

That's was an after the fact comment, I knew it was 'thematic' similarities and not content.

How is there even the merest connection, if the game doesn't play like it, is canonically unrelated, the mechanics are different, encounter ethos is different, and it doesn't have any characters (which I already knew) from the original.. what makes it a 'successor' in any meaning of the word?

Because it has a long story?.. is that it?.. TBH the game their making doesn't really bear any resemblance to the promises they made.. I'm honestly sorry to be moaning about this.. but that's the sad fact.

I'm not aware of any "promise" we've made that we've broken, or any statement we've made that was false or deliberately misleading.

Wording, I wasn't really stating a definative 'lie'.. I do feel though that with the use and trading on Torment, that overall the actual product you are making is sailing pretty close to the wind as far as a 'connection' is concerned.. it may not be the case, but it is my opinion.

Don't expect anything of the storytelling level of PST, TSL or MOTB, if you don't want to set yourself up for disappointment.

Exactly! =)
The lower everyone's expectations, the higher the probability that we will meet them.

See. this is where I get stuck... You gain a lot of kudos for T:ToN based, absolutely, on your trading on the Torment name.. but then the statement is made that we've not to expect the same level of storytelling....... Do you see the disconnection on this? "Give us money we're making a, all people hear is the word.., sequel but don't expect that kind of quality."

It's a hard thing just to gloss over considering the rep of Torment... I can't help wondering what impact such a statement would have made at KS launch.

Would you have gotten what you did, if it was made clear that although you're making a 'spiritual successor' to one of the most lauded game's in history, that Inxile would be quite happy being conservative about the quality.

I have to admit I don't think my view is unreasonable. Especially considering the extent to which 'Torment' was responsible for success of the KS.