Information Tom Hall and Brenda Brathwaite Kickstart Turn-based Oldschool CRPG

[curry]

There's no way they're going to reach the $1M goal. It's a pity because they already have +$200k which should be more than enough to make a decent game.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

So, did they even say wat this game is about guis?

 

[kris]

So, did they even say wat this game is about guis?

don't you know what an old-school game is Major Blackheart?

 

[rpgcodexusername]

is billy mays a melon head or neanderthal?

 

[villain of the story]

The existence of Druid: Demons of the Mind and Nemesis: The Wizardry Adventure are all the proof I need to take Cleve's word. How the fuck SirTech, the same company of developers who released all those magnificent games, could possible make such abominable is otherwise beyond comprehension.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

There's no way they're going to reach the $1M goal.

They're actually trending to meet their goal if donations continue in-line with other KickStarters. Big bump on day one, then a slow drip every day until a spurge at the end. Be interesting to see if this project breaks the mold.

 

[MMXI]

The existence of Druid: Demons of the Mind and Nemesis: The Wizardry Adventure are all the proof I need to take Cleve's word. How the fuck SirTech, the same company of developers who released all those magnificent games, could possible make such abominable is otherwise beyond comprehension.

But Druid: Daemons of the Mind wasn't developed by Sir-Tech. It was developed by a British company called Synthetic Dimensions. If we're to judge post-Crusaders Sir-Tech on their publishing deals, we have to bear in mind that they published the Realms of Arkania series in English.

Nemesis: The Wizardry Adventure? Yes, that was a dud. But was it developed by incompetent people? Well, let's take a look at the credits shall we?

Project Leader: Linda Currie
Original Concept: Ian Currie
Story and Game Design: Linda Currie
Additional Design: Derek Beland, Ian Currie, Bret Rowdon
Scripting & Dialogue: Brenda Brathwaite, Linda Currie

Some of these names sound familiar. Didn't some of them work on something just two years prior for Sir-Tech? Let's take a look at the Jagged Alliance credits:

Producer: Linda Currie
Original Concept: Ian Currie
Design: Ian Currie, Linda Currie, Shaun Lyng
Programming: Ian Currie, Alex Meduna

How about afterwards? What did they go on to create at Sir-Tech just three years after Nemesis? Here's the Jagged Alliance 2 credits:

Producer: Ian Currie
Director: Ian Currie
Game Design: Ian Currie, Linda Currie, Shaun Lyng
Additional Programming: Derek Beland, Mark R. Carter, Bret Rowdon, Ian Currie
Scripting: Ian Currie
Sector Design: Linda Currie
Writers: Brenda Brathwaite, Shaun Lyng, Josh Mandel

And was Sir-Tech an infallible beast in the pre-Crusaders years? Look what our Ian Currie was up to at Sir-Tech back in 1990, during the D. W. Bradley years. Here's the credits for the 1990 smash hit Freakin' Funky Fuzzballs.

Design: Ian Currie, Robert Koller
Programming: Ian Currie
Graphics / Artwork: Ian Currie, Robert Koller

I'm missing out a whole bunch of games like Sir-Tech's 1987 epic science fiction action game Deep Space: Operation Copernicus!

 

[MMXI]

My point, if some of you didn't get it, is that Sir-Tech published shit before Wizardry VII and after Wizardry VII. Sir-Tech also developed shit before Wizardry VII and after Wizardry VII. And guess what? The same people who created some of this shit were the key players in the Jagged Alliance games (and Wizardry 8 of course).

 

[felipepepe]

You're telling me that good developers can make bad games as well? Surely you jest, if that was true, then even MCA, Tim Cain and Brian Fargo would have done bad games!

 

[MMXI]

You're telling me that good developers can make bad games as well?

No. I was refuting a post. But you're right. Common sense (and two seconds of research) was all that was needed.

 

[Johannes]

If they're barely making it, people will be more inclined to throw in more than they otherwise would, to see it reach the goal.
I'm pretty sure they'll release more info on some of the actual gameplay mechanics, and that'll bring in some of the people who are on the fence about this, if the design is any good.

I remember reading somewhere that 90% of projects that reach 1/3 of their funding goal, will also reach the final goal. Of course there's still that 10%, but it does tell something.

 

[markec]

They should totally make a new video in which they are on their knees begging for money, atleast it would be more classy then the first one.

 

[Don Peste]

They will make, and you will ask Romero to draw you cartoons and make interviews and stuff.

 

[DwarvenFood]

By using the large font he emphasized his true feelings. And this makes his post very believable in my eyes. And I am not ironic.

In b4 Cleve contracted to work on Chaos Chronicles "why did CorePlay go bankrupt" thread.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

The existence of Druid: Demons of the Mind and Nemesis: The Wizardry Adventure are all the proof I need to take Cleve's word. How the fuck SirTech, the same company of developers who released all those magnificent games, could possible make such abominable is otherwise beyond comprehension.

Wizardry 6, Wizardry 7, Jagged Alliance 1 & 2 were some of the most kick-ass games ever made, all by Sir-Tech. Mostly everything else they released was dreck.

 

[Johannes]

The existence of Druid: Demons of the Mind and Nemesis: The Wizardry Adventure are all the proof I need to take Cleve's word. How the fuck SirTech, the same company of developers who released all those magnificent games, could possible make such abominable is otherwise beyond comprehension.

Wizardry 6, Wizardry 7, Jagged Alliance 1 & 2 were some of the most kick-ass games ever made, all by Sir-Tech. Mostly everything else they released was dreck.

No love for the earlier Wizardries?

 

[l3loodAngel]

1. Banks I know do a very simple thing when it comes to loans: They'll look at three-years cash-flow. If the business is making money, you have a chance. If it isn't, goodbye. Most gaming companies (and small businesses) would be in the goodbye category. 2. They don't have three-years of steady income from a game, at best it comes in one big lump or its publisher funding 3. (investment) which is ignored (because it's not income).

OK. I am sober now.

1. Depends on the type of business. NYSE LNG (Cheniere Energy) is a startup business with first cash flow coming after 5 years after taking the loan. I can't prove this since I lost my account in SNP Capital IQ. So you can just believe me.
2. Not that they need it. The faster the loan is repaid the better. It takes a company 3-4 years to develop a game. Now if it would take additional three years to repay the loan, it would mean that the loan period would be longer by 3 years. Then the interest would kill you. Now games also have a feature what statisticians would call the long tail. The games especially RPG's are sold through time, but at the small quantities. It also add to the source of revenue.
3. It is a cash inflow for service so it counts as an income. It's just showing negative on the balance sheet and on the cash flow statement. However, it becomes positive after the game is released as only then you can acknowledge income by IFRS.

 

[villain of the story]

The existence of Druid: Demons of the Mind and Nemesis: The Wizardry Adventure are all the proof I need to take Cleve's word. How the fuck SirTech, the same company of developers who released all those magnificent games, could possible make such abominable is otherwise beyond comprehension.

But Druid: Daemons of the Mind wasn't developed by Sir-Tech. It was developed by a British company called Synthetic Dimensions. If we're to judge post-Crusaders Sir-Tech on their publishing deals, we have to bear in mind that they published the Realms of Arkania series in English.

Nemesis: The Wizardry Adventure? Yes, that was a dud. But was it developed by incompetent people? Well, let's take a look at the credits shall we?

Project Leader: Linda Currie
Original Concept: Ian Currie
Story and Game Design: Linda Currie
Additional Design: Derek Beland, Ian Currie, Bret Rowdon
Scripting & Dialogue: Brenda Brathwaite, Linda Currie

Some of these names sound familiar. Didn't some of them work on something just two years prior for Sir-Tech? Let's take a look at the Jagged Alliance credits:

Producer: Linda Currie
Original Concept: Ian Currie
Design: Ian Currie, Linda Currie, Shaun Lyng
Programming: Ian Currie, Alex Meduna

How about afterwards? What did they go on to create at Sir-Tech just three years after Nemesis? Here's the Jagged Alliance 2 credits:

Producer: Ian Currie
Director: Ian Currie
Game Design: Ian Currie, Linda Currie, Shaun Lyng
Additional Programming: Derek Beland, Mark R. Carter, Bret Rowdon, Ian Currie
Scripting: Ian Currie
Sector Design: Linda Currie
Writers: Brenda Brathwaite, Shaun Lyng, Josh Mandel

And was Sir-Tech an infallible beast in the pre-Crusaders years? Look what our Ian Currie was up to at Sir-Tech back in 1990, during the D. W. Bradley years. Here's the credits for the 1990 smash hit Freakin' Funky Fuzzballs.

Design: Ian Currie, Robert Koller
Programming: Ian Currie
Graphics / Artwork: Ian Currie, Robert Koller

I'm missing out a whole bunch of games like Sir-Tech's 1987 epic science fiction action game Deep Space: Operation Copernicus!

Name dropping is easy but you don't know what you are talking about. Have you played those games at all? They aren't merely bad games. They are fucking abominations. Plus, Curries made Jagged Alliance two years before they made Nemesis. To make a game such a masterpiece as JA and then to move onto something as horribly shit as Nemesis... You can't explain that with mere names. It doesn't matter whose name is on the credits. Guys making Chaos Chronicles claim that they were commissioned to make JA:BIA, not because it was their dream of a game. Obsidian developed a FPS Fallout title, though they did the best they could with it because they are generally a good development studio. Similar deal. Like wise with Druid. For a company such as SirTech to find and commission such a shit development studio whose other games suck donkey balls is incongruous with their track record and points to a problem with management making poor decisions.

A codexer of all gamers should be aware of the problems with credits and commissioning. But we all know even old Codexers are lacking in mental faculties as of lately, as evidenced by their support for a Real Crap with Pause game.

 

[villain of the story]

Also remember Alpha Popamole and SEGA demanding several changes. And look how it turned out. A poor Mass Effect derivative popamole console corridor shooter with cutscenes.

 

[Jarpie]

Also remember Alpha Popamole and SEGA demanding several changes. And look how it turned out. A poor Mass Effect derivative popamole console corridor shooter with cutscenes.

What changes did they demand?

 

[DarkUnderlord]

1. Banks I know do a very simple thing when it comes to loans: They'll look at three-years cash-flow. If the business is making money, you have a chance. If it isn't, goodbye. Most gaming companies (and small businesses) would be in the goodbye category. 2. They don't have three-years of steady income from a game, at best it comes in one big lump or its publisher funding 3. (investment) which is ignored (because it's not income).

OK. I am sober now.

1. Depends on the type of business.

Yep. And game development companies (a notoriously difficult market to predict winners in) aren't energy companies. Energy companies build power plants (quantifiable, mostly the same) and operate based on current market prices. Your Liquid Gas is the same as my Liquid Gas - we can reasonably determine the demand - and the price - for that product in a given area. Where-as your First-Person 3d Tactical Shooter is not the same as my First-Person 3d Tactical Shooter.

2. Not that they need it. The faster the loan is repaid the better. It takes a company 3-4 years to develop a game. Now if it would take additional three years to repay the loan, it would mean that the loan period would be longer by 3 years. Then the interest would kill you. Now games also have a feature what statisticians would call the long tail. The games especially RPG's are sold through time, but at the small quantities. It also add to the source of revenue.

But it's all speculation. There are just as many games that don't have any long-tail - they just disappear from existence. Where-as I can find a guy who'll happily tell you what the price of Gas will be in 6 years from now, and what the long-term trend for demand is. Now while I might be able to do that for the "computer games market" as a whole, I can't do that for your specific computer game.

 

[Jaesun]

Also remember Alpha Popamole and SEGA demanding several changes. And look how it turned out. A poor Mass Effect derivative popamole console corridor shooter with cutscenes.

What changes did they demand?

We don't know. I highly doubt Obsidian will ever state specifics, since they do still work with publishers. The same with them answering what publisher approached them to do a KS scam.

 

[l3loodAngel]

From Camel:
I am actually not sure about capital adequacy as publishers structure their contracts in such way, that you will always be doing contract work. Efficiently making the devs their slaves as I have never heard that any of the Devs started going solo I the last 14 years. That's why I stressed the importance of personal guarantee.

1. Bioware(pre-EA buyout) and Gearbox are two examples of developers that have been successful and have been able to develop under publishers while keeping IP and presumably royalties. 2. Publishers have had to ask for more control and ownership over the results since they are having to sink more and more money into each game. The RPG genre has been effected by this more since they tend to have longer development cycles and the publisher's perception that they are as not capable of reaching the sales numbers that other genres are. That perception looks to be changing some though due to the success of the Mass Effect series and Skyrim.

I'm really glad that Kickstarter is proving to be a viable way to fund smaller, niche games.

1. I am not familiar with Gearbox so I will ignore it, but what you are saying is impossible, because Bio published games with three party agreement. The Developer, the publisher and owner of the IP. NWN comes from wizzards of the coast and SW comes from Lucas arts. So they technically can't be in charge of the franchise or the game.

2. Publishers do not structure their agreements with Devs in such way. I will make an example of company "mini EA" (based on real information from EA 1Q13) with some assumptions and simplified so that a person who doesn't like finance can understand.

Mini EA, negatives are with in brackets and should be read as minus. The whole company mini company revenue is $ 1000 dollars and let's assume it has a contract with one Developer and is selling one game for simplicity purposes.

Mini EA statement of operations (Profit & Loss)
Revenue $ 1000
Cost of goods sold break down:
Impairment of franchises (should be read as tax shield as it is not cash outflow) $ (49)
Services $ (73)
Let's assume that EA is generous so it gives out big royalties to developers $ (50)
Content licensor's and distribution $ (13)
Losses from previous game $ (20)
end of Cogs breakdown.
Other costs:
Developer fee for development (R&D) $ (300)
Marketing and sales $ (145)
SG&A (should be read as compensation by salaries for incompetence) $ (86)
Income from acquisitions $ 20
Amortization $ (7)
Restructuring (firing with golden parachutes) $ (27)
Net Income (Final profit for shareholders) $ 250

Now look at the costs of actually making a game.
Royalties $ 50
R&D $ 300
Marketing $ 145
Let's assume that a part from services is also needed $ 20
Total: $ 515
This is the total amount needed to make a new game.

Now let's look at what the developer gets.
R&D $ 300
Royalties $ 50
Total: $ 350, with a profit margin 16.6 % profit margin.

So now a developer could go into the bank, but there 2 problems arise. Developer has only $ 50 in his pocket as this is what he gained from the game as royalties, because he spent $ 300 for the developing of the game, but to make a new game developers needs $ 515 dollars. So that means that developer has only 9.7% of the amount needed to make a new game. If the developer has the IP, that costs $ 100 (Fallout), the developer is in a much better shape. Then the developer would have $ 50 in cash and $100 value of a collateral from IP and $20 dollars collateral from tech (PC's, software and etc.), he would have a bigger chance to get a loan, because the total amount would be $ 170 of $515 and that's 33%. And that is a simplified model of how publishers make developers their slaves. That's why I said that they wouldn't get the amount needed for a next gen development, but could get a small amount for new IP development like Eternity.

 

[villain of the story]

Also remember Alpha Popamole and SEGA demanding several changes. And look how it turned out. A poor Mass Effect derivative popamole console corridor shooter with cutscenes.

What changes did they demand?

We don't know. I highly doubt Obsidian will ever state specifics, since they do still work with publishers. The same with them answering what publisher approached them to do a KS scam.

They actually talked about it. We know Brian Mitsoda worked on it and almost all of his work was scrapped. We know SEGA demanded changes on game mechanics. It's all in interviews that was reposted here. They just didn't badmouth SEGA as in "they fucked our vision".

 

[Infinitron]

Also remember Alpha Popamole and SEGA demanding several changes. And look how it turned out. A poor Mass Effect derivative popamole console corridor shooter with cutscenes.

Didn't SEGA actually demand that it be less of a shooter (stealth skills, reticle waiting)?