The writing in this game is average

[Crooked Bee]

Personally, in about 15+ hours that I played PoE during the weekend, I found the writing to be extremely disappointing for an Obsidian game. I came in with some really high expectations (think MotB or Kotor2, if not PS:T), but unfortunately the interesting stuff concerning the nature of souls and gods, the mystery of your background, etc., takes up maybe 20% of the dialogue at most. The rest 80% is just trite fantasy / fetch quest / plz solve my problem with looters / lover / brother stuff, which I ended up simply skipping or reading diagonally. I don't care if this stuff is also fairly competently written, since it doesn't make it any less trite.

Adding insult to injury, even most of those 20% are not as good as I expected them to be; there's rarely a satisfying "philosophical" conversation on gods and souls to be had, and Durance is the only companion who feels interesting. The storyfag in me is crying.

Thankfully the combat holds up imho, otherwise I simply wouldn't bother with the game anymore. I'm not a big fan of this style of combat and it isn't as novel and groundbreaking as D:OS', just a different spin on / rehash of ye old IE combat, but it does make me want to go back to the game once the bugs have been sorted out. The encounter design has been uneven, but Hard does feel balanced for the most part and there are some classes I haven't tried yet. Ideally I'd like to beat the megadungeon too

 

[Angthoron]

Personally, in about 15+ hours that I played PoE during the weekend, I found the writing to be extremely disappointing for an Obsidian game. I came in with some really high expectations (think MotB or Kotor2, if not PS:T), but unfortunately the interesting stuff concerning the nature of souls and gods, the mystery of your background, etc., takes up maybe 20% of the dialogue at most. The rest 80% is just trite fantasy / fetch quest / plz solve my problem with looters / lover / brother stuff, which I ended up simply skipping or reading diagonally. I don't care if this stuff is also fairly competently written, since it doesn't make it any less trite.

Ah yes, though I think you sort of did this to yourself. I came in with no expectations at all (well, humorous expectations of "it's gonna suck!" aside), and it's actually well above average. The "trite" and "mundane" stuff is indeed that, but it's also well-motivated and logical and mostly competently written. It does get less trivial once you get to Dyrford and get to some city-side shenanigans, but it's a BG1/BG2 simulacrum, not Torment's hot sister/brother, and on that level, the game's writing definitely works.

Adding insult to injury, even most of those 20% are not as good as I expected them to be; there's rarely a satisfying "philosophical" conversation on gods and souls to be had, and Durance is the only companion who feels interesting. The storyfag side in me is crying.

Grieving Mother and, weird enough, Edér turn out pretty interesting too, but yeah, the former part is true, there's little philosophy to be seen here. You'll see some interesting things by the end of Chapter 2, but overall the conversation trees are simply too short to get into any kind of deep thought. Considering the setting and the different kinds of people you meet, I'd expect deeper insights, but there you go, this is inspired by BG.

 

[Athelas]

Personally, in about 15+ hours that I played PoE during the weekend, I found the writing to be extremely disappointing for an Obsidian game. I came in with some really high expectations (think MotB or Kotor2, if not PS:T), but unfortunately the interesting stuff concerning the nature of souls and gods, the mystery of your background, etc., takes up maybe 20% of the dialogue at most. The rest 80% is just trite fantasy / fetch quest / plz solve my problem with looters / lover / brother stuff, which I ended up simply skipping or reading diagonally. I don't care if this stuff is also fairly competently written, since it doesn't make it any less trite.

Adding insult to injury, even most of those 20% are not as good as I expected them to be; there's rarely a satisfying "philosophical" conversation on gods and souls to be had, and Durance is the only companion who feels interesting. The storyfag in me is crying.

Thankfully the combat holds up imho, otherwise I simply wouldn't bother with the game anymore. I'm not a big fan of this style of combat and it isn't as novel and groundbreaking as D:OS', just a different spin on / rehash of ye old IE combat, but it does make me want to go back to the game once the bugs have been sorted out. The encounter design has been uneven, but Hard does feel balanced for the most part and there are some classes I haven't tried yet. Ideally I'd like to beat the megadungeon too

Playing an Obsidian game for the combat while disliking the writing. You heard it here first, folks.

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

Adding insult to injury, even most of those 20% are not as good as I expected them to be; there's rarely a satisfying "philosophical" conversation on gods and souls to be had, and Durance is the only companion who feels interesting. The storyfag in me is crying.

I think it's just that the game does not match with your expectations. It's much more grounded with a historical flavor to it, which may not me the metaphysical, transcendent and philosophical stuff you wanted but still good.
To me the lore feels very coherent and the game does manage to subvert a lot of standard fantasy tropes.
IMHO, not every game out there needs to be a new PST.

 

[Irenaeus]

Adding insult to injury, even most of those 20% are not as good as I expected them to be; there's rarely a satisfying "philosophical" conversation on gods and souls to be had, and Durance is the only companion who feels interesting. The storyfag in me is crying.

I think it's just that the game does not match with your expectations. It's much more grounded with a historical flavor to it, which may not me the metaphysical, transcendent and philosophical stuff you wanted but still good.
To me the lore feels very coherent and the game does manage to subvert a lot of standard fantasy tropes.
IMHO, not every game out there needs to be a new PST.

Maybe Torment: Tides of Numumayay

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

Adding insult to injury, even most of those 20% are not as good as I expected them to be; there's rarely a satisfying "philosophical" conversation on gods and souls to be had, and Durance is the only companion who feels interesting. The storyfag in me is crying.

I think it's just that the game does not match with your expectations. It's much more grounded with a historical flavor to it, which may not me the metaphysical, transcendent and philosophical stuff you wanted but still good.
To me the lore feels very coherent and the game does manage to subvert a lot of standard fantasy tropes.
IMHO, not every game out there needs to be a new PST.

Maybe Torment: Tides of Numumayay

Yeah, kind of. We can only hope that it will be on par with the original but it will definitely be 'weird' and so on and so forth.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Grieving Mother and, weird enough, Edér turn out pretty interesting too, but yeah, the former part is true, there's little philosophy to be seen here. You'll see some interesting things by the end of Chapter 2, but overall the conversation trees are simply too short to get into any kind of deep thought. Considering the setting and the different kinds of people you meet, I'd expect deeper insights, but there you go, this is inspired by BG.

Yeah, the setting would lend itself extremely well to things like that; like I said earlier in the main thread, I like the soul stuff and the gods stuff and the pains the game takes to introduce all that.

I think it's just that the game does not match with your expectations. It's much more grounded with a historical flavor to it, which may not me the metaphysical, transcendent and philosophical stuff you wanted but still good.
To me the lore feels very coherent and the game does manage to subvert a lot of standard fantasy tropes.
IMHO, not every game out there needs to be a new PST.

I did not expect the same setting as PST or even the same weirdness, but no matter the setting, I did expect from Obsidian an interesting way to interact with the setting. However, the dialogue rarely if ever goes deeper than the surface level, which makes it considerally less involving and is imho a waste for an Obsidian game. Especially in a relatively "realistic," well thought out, historically grounded setting like this, some philosophical / religious / historical debate could add a lot.

As things stand, the setting is essentially a competently written info dump, not a properly deep and interactive RPG setting. Durance (and possibly Eder and Grieving Mother) being the only exception.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Playing an Obsidian game for the combat while disliking the writing. You heard it here first, folks.

I too am surprised.

 

[LizardWizard]

Writing in this game is great,.

"If only."

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

I think it's just that the game does not match with your expectations. It's much more grounded with a historical flavor to it, which may not me the metaphysical, transcendent and philosophical stuff you wanted but still good.
To me the lore feels very coherent and the game does manage to subvert a lot of standard fantasy tropes.
IMHO, not every game out there needs to be a new PST.

I did not expect the same setting as PST or even the same weirdness, but no matter the setting, I did expect from Obsidian an interesting way to interact with the setting. However, the dialogue rarely if ever goes deeper than the surface level, which makes it considerally less involving and is imho a waste for an Obsidian game. Especially in a relatively "realistic," well thought out, historically grounded setting like this, some philosophical / religious / historical debate could add a lot.

As things stand, the setting is essentially a competently written info dump, not a properly deep and interactive RPG setting.

Well, I don't know. I honestly like a lot of soul-ish stuff in the game like Awakening, the Godhammer, the Pantheon of Gods, etc. And you can interact with the game uniquely (using your Watcher powers) both in quests and for flavor.
Of course, there is a room for improvement (I can't say for sure how much as I only finished Act 1), but there always is.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

I came in with some really high expectations (think MotB or Kotor2, if not PS:T)

Interesting. I came in with severely low expectations and am pleasantly surprised with how much I'm reminded of MotB, SoZ and PS:T.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Delterius]

As things stand, the setting is essentially a competently written info dump, not a properly deep and interactive RPG setting. Durance (and possibly Eder and Grieving Mother) being the only exception.

That's an interesting way of putting it since this is the game which is introducing us to the setting. For what it is worth, we might get more in a sequel.

 

[Angthoron]

Grieving Mother and, weird enough, Edér turn out pretty interesting too, but yeah, the former part is true, there's little philosophy to be seen here. You'll see some interesting things by the end of Chapter 2, but overall the conversation trees are simply too short to get into any kind of deep thought. Considering the setting and the different kinds of people you meet, I'd expect deeper insights, but there you go, this is inspired by BG.

Yeah, the setting would lend itself extremely well to things like that; like I said earlier in the main thread, I like the soul stuff and the gods stuff and the pains the game takes to introduce all that.

It has a ton of potential, that's for sure. I was expecting some lengthy discussions about gods and souls and the ancients and the hollowborn, and, well, everything really, because clearly the game is once again about things that are rooted deeply in the past, and you can't properly fix it all until you know what it is that actually happened. Except no, most things are conveniently spelled out, hopped over, or are simply criminally short. I'd want MORE text for Durance and a chance to argue his doctrines with him, WAY more Cipher stuff with GM (although to MCA's credit, he really put her into a lot of dialogues as a bit of seasoning, and even a possibility to complete 1-2 quests in an alternative way, which isn't something I can so far say about the rest), way more memory sharing and stuff; and probably a bit more out of Edér on the topic of his religion and life in the Vale. I'd have liked to talk more to the old Watcher and certainly the freaking talking throne that's hundreds of years old should have more to tell me, right?

I understand, there's time constraints and budget, but goddamn a lot of it feels like it's a wasted opportunity. Solid, good, but not excellent or mind-boggling.

 

[Crooked Bee]

As things stand, the setting is essentially a competently written info dump, not a properly deep and interactive RPG setting. Durance (and possibly Eder and Grieving Mother) being the only exception.

That's an interesting way of putting it since this is the game which is introducing us to the setting. For what it is worth, we might get more in a sequel.

Introduction doesn't equal info dump; it can be made involving too. There's no need to excuse the weak way the game introduces its setting by saying "duh, it's an introduction."

No need to confuse it with the weakness of the setting either. Like I said, I think the setting itself has a much greater potential than the simplistic way PoE introduces it. See also Angthoron's post above.

 

[vorvek]

I haven't really played the game so I can't comment on the actual quality of the writing being offered by the game but

It's good for what it is. If it was a novel I'd think it's pretty shit, but I fail to see how it's average for a cRPG in 2015.

It's this kind of thinking that leads to stagnation in the medium and lack of good RPGs and games in general.
If a game has mediocore-boring writing it shouldn't be considered fine just because it's a videogame, in the same vein if a game has alright-good writing it shouldn't be heralded as the second coming of Christ just because it's a video game and video games are usually badly written.

It's a video game, where narrative is fueled by more than just text. Also, it's still a game aimed for the general public, and is written as such. You don't want to play Finnegans Wake - the videogame.

Edit: some people for example speak of PS:T as a pinacle in writing. It's good for what it is, a videogame, but there are hundreds of novels and essays that touch the same themes as the game in ways that make PS:T's writing look amateur. But it works in the game, because it's a game and not a fucking novel. We could also say that Pillars isn't great when it comes to cinematography. Now, as an isometric game, it looks more than alright, but that kind of thinking is what leads to stagnation, and if a game has mediocre-boring cinematography it shouldn't be considered fine just because it's a videogame.

 

[agentorange]

because there is only avant-garde experimental writing and banal mass appealing writing, nothing in-between. or off to the side. or any number of directions.

 

[hivemind]

The medium having more tools shouldn't really excuse improper use of the tools, perfection in all aspects and realization of full potential should be the goal of any artist.
And there is a sea of difference between good and extremely experimental scholarly work that you can fully comprehend only after 20 years of study.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Finnegans Wake - the videogame.

Your party has leveled up

"bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk!"

 

[vorvek]

The medium having more tools shouldn't really excuse improper use of the tools, perfection in all aspects and realization of full potential should be the goal of any artist.
And there is a sea of difference between good and extremely experimental scholarly work that you can fully comprehend only after 20 years of study.

So should we only apply this to writing? Or every art form of the game? Sound sucks because it's only serviceable and could be half way between where it is now and Vivaldi's Winter. Graphics suck because there's a lot of space between what we got and Frazetta's illustrations. Cinematography sucks, because we are not asking for Kurosawa, but shit, there's something else between that and what we got. Have you noticed the architecture in game? Pure shit, after 6000 years of documented architecture works you'd think at least they'd try. Even the fucking meal recipes are made of the most boring branches of gastronomy! Pure decline!

 

[hivemind]

No we should apply this to every part of the game, from all the things you have mentioned to video game unique parts like systems design, gameplay and such.
There is literally no reason not to.

 

[Angthoron]

What's the main argument line here again? It's getting lost with all the hyperbole.

And by the way, Imma let you finish, but Shakespeare had the best hyperboles of all time. Of all time!

 

[Jools]

What's the main argument line here again? It's getting lost with all the hyperbole.

And by the way, Imma let you finish, but Shakespeare had the best hyperboles of all time. Of all time!

I see what thee didst thither.

 

[vorvek]

What's the main argument line here again? It's getting lost with all the hyperbole.

And by the way, Imma let you finish, but Shakespeare had the best hyperboles of all time. Of all time!

The main argument line is that it's an okay writing for a videogame. If you cannot follow that, probably a game with better writing would be lost on you.

 

[Scroo]

I dunno, I think it is enjoyable as in entertaining read. There's a lot of cliched fantasy namedropping but all in all I like the writing style. As a whole it's quite forgettable I guess, so far I didn't encounter anything that would make me say "woah now that's something I will remember in 5 years still". Yet it's the story that keeps me going because the combat is making me insane.

 

[Angthoron]

What's the main argument line here again? It's getting lost with all the hyperbole.

And by the way, Imma let you finish, but Shakespeare had the best hyperboles of all time. Of all time!

The main argument line is that it's an okay writing for a videogame. If you cannot follow that, probably a game with better writing would be lost on you.

Edgy, oh so edgy. If you can't explain your point without resorting to some fanboy-like hyperbole-filled passive aggression, perhaps you ought to mingle on the Bioboards instead?

See, I can do edgy too.

Yes, the writing is okay (more than okay, actually) for a videogame, but it's ultimately shallow and fleeting. Not in the sense of the writing itself lacking depth, though, perhaps, rather, quite literally so - the dialogues are just too short. Just as you think you are getting to the good part, it's over. Perhaps this is what it feels like to be a woman. Perhaps this game's writing is an allegory to womanhood.