Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

The writing in this game is average

Rake

Arcane
Joined
Oct 11, 2012
Messages
2,969
PS:T > MotB > P:E > IWD2 > BG2 > IWD > BG

(writing)

the ones left off the list not worth mentioning
Sadly, that says nothing. From the games you mentioned only the first two had good writing. So saying that the game has worse writing than the good ones, but better writing than the bad ones only shows that PoE hasn't bad writing, but neither has great writing. So...average?
 

Prime Junta

Guest
"Good" is always a relative term.

It's way, way above average compared to standard D&D lore or most fantasy cRPG's I've played.

It's average compared to some random fantasy paperback I pick up at the airport to pass the time on the plane.

And since it's just next to the middle member of my list, compared to that it's clearly one notch above average.
 

Shevek

Arcane
Joined
Sep 20, 2003
Messages
1,570
I would just say the writing is very good. Glancing at the codex list of top rpgs, I would put PoE's writing well above the median (especially when one considers both breadth and depth). If you have better writing than most of the best rpgs ever made, the writing must be described as at least good and likely better than that.
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
997
Location
Dreams, where I'm a viking.
Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
no, heidegger was 300 years after descartes

A Heideggeresque RPG would be amazing. Pretty hard to play as anything but Chaotic Evil though.

PC: Tell me about yourself.

Innkeeper: I am iin tension between emerging and not emerging. Why do you ask?
1. The world worlds
2. The earth earths
3. The world earths [Lie]
4. The earth worlds.[Truth]
5. [Attack]
 

Kiste

Augur
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
684
If you have better writing than most of the best rpgs ever made, the writing must be described as at least good and likely better than that.
You're doing it wrong. The benchmark isn't existing RPGs, it's is the hypothetic Codex Dream Game.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
6,933
Ok, finally finished it. The last act lowers my opinion of the writing further. Big spoilers ahead

The gods are not real.

Well, except they do act on the world, do punish and shit, and well, it turns out someone made them.

So fucking what? There are tonnes of mythologies in which the pantheon was made. Odin was made from a salty rock, licked into shape by a cow. Doesn't make him not-god.

They don't really go into details as to how they created the gods either. Or how the world is threatened if people find out the gods were manufactured, seeing as they still "work". And the conversion process from old gods to new manufactured but still real gods, what about that? We see it in flashbacks but that's it, how did that thing work? And how did it spread from not-kwa to Aedyr?

Lastly, how come this came as such an abrupt revelation? There was really very little foreshadowing, or shared themes or anything in the preceding acts. The closest we come to it are the druids who don't pray to the gods but that's explored poorly as well.

To me it looks like each act was designed individually and independent of the other two (three if counting endgame).

Lastly, the descriptive text is purple as fuck. That includes your belived GM. It's an adjective word soup.
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
Right, so I've finally had some time to reflect upon just what the fuck I've witnessed in main quest after 9/11 err end of Act 2. Obvious spoilers ahead, also lots of text.

So as you might've figured out by now, Act 2 ending is an awful stinker. It essentially ruins the main plot, no matter what way you look at it. Sure, you may feel forgiving because, as many here have stated, "Who does a better job anyway", but I don't feel that this is a good enough of an excuse. Anyway, whatever. On to Act 2 and beyond!

So Act 2 ends with us basically foiling the villain's plot, learning an ancient language and finding out what causes babies to be born soulless. And how to stop it. We also get a quick promise of getting into political intrigue. Faction tensions, political debate, audience with the duke or whatever the fancy word was. Basically, we got a build-up, which was supposed to lead to a reasonable follow-up that would pay off our efforts. Instead, what we got was a good joke at our expense and a display of what amounts to "wasted time". I usually hate this term being thrown around by reviewers, because even if it "was all a dream", we still get our entertainment, who gives a fuck? In this case, though, it's pretty much what it is, because we end up wasting our time on a nice little "kill everything" campaign that amounts to nothing - just a slide or two in the end of the game. Duke dies, your allies die or break out into a little fight routine, you run away from the city but not before passing out like a pregnant girl at the sight of a sock.

Of course, because somehow the Bad Guy has all the answers to your problems (I still have no idea why we decide this is the case, can someone clue me in on what I missed? To me it was like seeing a furry after scalding my hand and deciding that the furry must know why it happened and how to heal it), we follow him into Act 3 and visit the rustic Barbarian Village, a nice town that has a FUCKING TEMPLE WITH ACTUAL GODS LIVING IN IT right next door. Okay so apparently now this is a thing? Gods of the entire world live here and people are like eh w/e but maybe lets go hide there now that we have pogroms in our city, surely these PEOPLE THAT USUALLY LIKE TO KILL TRESPASSERS AND HAVE NO SYMPATHY TO OUR KIND will let us in and house us and shit. There's like GODS living here and nobody gives an actual fuck. What?

Then we go and flirt with wooden chicks. I'd flirt with wooden chicks, and so I'm glad there's an actual option to do so in the dialogue, together with a great comeback from one of the wooden chicks that brought me back to things I learned about plants in biology lessons. Turns out that the BAD GUY has collapsed the entrance to the FUCKING TEMPLE OF THE GODS but it's okay because you can go and pray to the gods in a shrine nearby and they'll help you with a magical elevator. Since my character was a nice guy I only skipped helping out God of Death, which apparently is so powerful he couldn't kill two elderly guys and needed my help with these. Powerful beings, these.

Yadda yadda, every god wants you to do something slightly different, so you figure out you'll have like 4-5 options which are somehow mutually exclusive despite logic but ah whatever fuck it, still not feeling any interest besides actually ending the Legacy, which is like the only part that interests me at this point because it has some kind of emotional investment in it since you know, potential death of an entire nation. Anyway, after all this emotionally engaging stuff, you go down a well and hoo boy Act 4 starts.

So final acts are usually cool when they combine the things that your character did over the entire course of the game, the game's setting, the game's plot and maybe some neat twists from the past or otherwise. I can think of a few neat endgame revelations/wrap-ups, but I'll talk about one of them in particular here just to get the point across as to why PoE ending (pre-slides) fails to work.

First, it dumps the exposition on you. Gods aren't real - except they are but they're fake. Anyway, I wouldn't mind this arc, if it was somehow important to the plot - or completely unimportant to the plot, conversely. Unfortunately, just as the gods are real but fake but real, the theism vs atheism debate is fake important but important but actually not. It's not important because so what? The game makes no effort to show why this may be important. Why your character betrayed a woman so important to him (can be waifu, or mother) over this super knowledge. Why it's worth all this trouble of killing off a nation to keep a secret. I don't get it. Okay, gods are synthetic, and they send you on quests to do menial shit. So what? Why is this important?

However, apparently it is important, because our final walk is accompanied by memories of previous conversations, of Deionarra talking to Sarevok flashbacks flashbacks. Not a single flashback of what was actually important. Nothing of what you did in the entire game. Just a bunch of echoes from the previous life, something you at the very least had no hand in, and at the most don't give a fuck about. And here I have to point out a game that does the exact fucking opposite, and it may shock the good folk here but that game is Witcher 1. I loved the final walk to the endboss in Witcher 1 - it was early hours and I was tired as fuck but suddenly I'm walking up this hill, meeting people whose fates I affected - and talking with something from the past, the Wild Hunt. Except since Wild Hunt wasn't disjointed from the rest of the plot, it actually felt important too - and fuck, my actions were acknowledged! I could for a moment see what I did from another angle! Cool shit. The talk with the endboss was also cool - it was about the past, the future, it was all about the things that happened in the game. Plus the final revelation of who the villain actually was. Good job.

This guy? I already forgot what he told me. I guess it was about importance of religion in people's lives or some shit like that. He talked to my character like he was still the Inquisitor from the past. Fuck you guy! I'm not he.

TL;DR the game puts too much importance on the "past life", fails to set up the importance of the past life, of the characters involved in the endgame, and of the whole theological debate. The writing is still competent, but it just too split off from the actual game and what's going on in it. The current events, on the other hand, are dismissed too readily for the "sins of the past" plot and other such things - which aren't properly set up.
 

hiver

Guest
I would just say the writing is very good. Glancing at the codex list of top rpgs, I would put PoE's writing well above the median (especially when one considers both breadth and depth). If you have better writing than most of the best rpgs ever made, the writing must be described as at least good and likely better than that.
I would actually agree with this, on those terms. I did find several examples of very good dialogues, voice-overs, and other parts of the game in that sense, that , while not being the best, does stand out above middle tier RPGs of this kind.

But i havent completed the whole game so i cannot claim its all like that, - and i did see some unfortunate examples too.
 

Zeronet

Learned
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
250
Anybody find the 'evil' options rather lackluster, does it improve in the later acts? I found cruel more like running over to the scene of a car accident to laugh at the victims rather than being a merciless cold individual. Trying to play a Bleak Walker mostly just involved me avoiding the negatives, rather than trying to build up being cruel/aggressive because i just didn't see my character as a asshole who just hurts people for no reason other than a giggle.

Maybe i had the wrong expectations after playing Mask of the Betrayer and delighting in all the evil options present in that.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,881
"I see that you are equipped akin to heroes that may or may not be of super quality. One might even say you are doombringers, carrying weapons described in ancient tongues that have fallen far short of my ears, and my forefathers ears, and the fathers before them. It is, indeed, a cast of particularly sharp weapons. And they glisten! Look at the fire lifting from the damascene withers and grooves. By the gods it is beautiful and most painful to even look at lest I shield my eyes. No matter, traveler, you have erred me on an odd day. For that, I will suggest that your end is nigh, even though my words have better odds of weaseling between your armor than my Fine Estoc which I just bought this morning. You see, I'm actually stupidly poor, so this is the best I could do. And my band of misfits shall join me in this beautiful battle with little to no reluctance, and certainly not a peep or mind to excuse themselves. Now, to arms! And meet your maker, my opponent who is writhing and wriggling with the very souls of others!"

[End Dialogue.]
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
263
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Goodness me, I was prepared for the disaster that was the end of the second act, but I wasn't prepared for those dryad sisters. They're so trite and uninteresting that I now really couldn't care less about the primary arc or about Thaos (though I was never interested in Thaos). I've come to realise just how much I've had enough of hearing and reading the word 'Souls', never mind the cardboard dry exposition that's seemingly attached to every other NPC - bonus points if they come with unneeded threats or showboating (I'm so very sure aforementioned wooden ladies stand even a remote chance my keep-demolishing backside).

I adored every high-fantasy, far-fetched moment that came in PS:T and MoTB and I rarely get bored of fantasy tropes in general. Pillars' primary arc has bored me. They should have given Thaos an actor that's at least half as good as David Warner, maybe then I'd care about any new scene he wants to visit.

Going to be a slog to get to the end, ho-hum.
 

hiver

Guest
Anybody find the 'evil' options rather lackluster, does it improve in the later acts? I found cruel more like running over to the scene of a car accident to laugh at the victims rather than being a merciless cold individual. Trying to play a Bleak Walker mostly just involved me avoiding the negatives, rather than trying to build up being cruel/aggressive because i just didn't see my character as a asshole who just hurts people for no reason other than a giggle.

Maybe i had the wrong expectations after playing Mask of the Betrayer and delighting in all the evil options present in that.

I didnt try it out, but maybe one should continuously work at it to get other such options?

I wonder (winder is a word? really?) what happens with the whole Skaen thing, and the girl, depending on what exact permutations you choose. There are quite a few.
I was at the pool not an hour ago and it offered me to sacrifice a companion. That was also cool to see done like it is.
You choose someone and get a unique "power" in exchange. It even tells you we will keep it a secret.

wu4kQGj.jpg


:P

btw, has anyone noticed that the villain is actually the Changing God from Tides?
AKfkXAJ.jpg

Man, that is going to be so awkward... gosh.
They could have atleast compared notes man.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Rivmusique

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
3,489
Location
Kangarooland
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
They don't really go into details as to how they created the gods either. Or how the world is threatened if people find out the gods were manufactured, seeing as they still "work".
That final memory, of Thaos in the room with people that he proceeds to suck into the adra pillar, then bows to the light that appears. I think that was him creating a god. Seemed like just a sacrifice to power Woedica like he was trying to do in the present time to me for a bit, but the game seems to say that this is what puts your past-missionary-self to rest, so I suppose that was answering his/her question.

World would be threatened because then people would know they can make their own 'gods' if they just l2animancylvl99. Other powers would come in, great wars and terrible destruction etc.

And the conversion process from old gods to new manufactured but still real gods, what about that? We see it in flashbacks but that's it, how did that thing work? And how did it spread from not-kwa to Aedyr?
Not sure what you mean here, what old gods? The 'thousands' that random tribes worshipped? They were imaginary, had no real power. Created ones did so got widely noticed and their ways became the norm.
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
997
Location
Dreams, where I'm a viking.
Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
So it seems like while there iis some disagreement on whether the Act I & II writing is good, there is a general consensus that the end of Act II just sucks balls. I really wanted to be be edgy and contrary, but I just finished Act II that has got to be the most precipitous decline in story quality I think I've ever seen. I still think the writing is overall fine on a conversation by conversation basis (although minor characters are virtually indistinguishable), but the plot is definitely disappointing.

I think the majority of what's wrong with it has been pretty thoroughly discussed, with the only thing I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that they wrote the Dozen's representative to the Duc to be a foulmouthed Ralph Kramden (down to the voice actor doing a Jackie Gleason impression). I mean, I get it it they're "common" rabble rousers and won't be as polished as House Soprano and the Knights of the STEM Degree, but I found it utterly ridiculous and jarring that the person they would choose to argue their case would be a dude who drops F-bombs in a TV Noo Yawk accent. It's like in the writers' minds angry commoners are most concisely represented as retarded thugs.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom