The writing in this game is average

[Angthoron]

So I'm still in Act 3 due to a bit of a lack of free time. Some spoilers regarding an Act 1 questline inside as there's a revisit to it in Act 3.

Spoiler

So, let's say you choose to fight Lord Douchebag for hanging people left and right, killing his woman and being a douche. Lord Douche is dead! All hail Lord Lesserdouche! You go on with other heroics, thinking that the plotline is put to rest, and that you had a choice in shaping the future of the region.

Not so! Act 3 tells you that Lord Douchebag somehow came back to life as a Lord Greaterdouche, killed Lord Lesserdouche and talks dirty about your mom, so why don't you go smack him in the gob. 'k. Anyone see anything wrong here? Did this invalidate your choice in some way, maybe? But okay, it's fine, these things happen, it could be an interesting little story, besides, I always thought that I should've annexed that place anyway, so now's my chance, right?

Nope! After a lame talk with Lord Greaterdouche, you run him and his buddies through a meat grinder and it's over (nice fight though, pretty challenging actually, high-level caster AI seems to be decent!). You don't get to annex the place. Fuck, nobody even acknowledges there was a problem and that you've put an end to it. Kolsc is dead? Raedric is back? Raedric is fertilizer again? Got no lord and no guards? WHO GIVES A FUCK.

Sure, it's a minor plotline by that point and really more of an excuse to have a high-powered caster fight, but couldn't this be handled in a better way? This was just so lazy, I can't even begin.

On the other hand, Prisoner of Ice subplot is somewhat nice, here's hoping there's some good subquests to be found in 2 other native town subzones

 

[hiver]

What I am or am not is none of your concern.

Gandalf? is that you?

When you go around talking about how writing is this and that and making empty assertions about what "a competent writer" can do - of course im going to tell you you are not a writer - meaning you didnt do anything to prove those empty statements.
You are not showing me anything, just telling.
And whats worse, the example you made to prove your point is horrible and proves exactly the opposite

Youre little scene, as i explained to you in detail tries to make player feel it was some scary shit - by you just telling the player "hey this is scary shit" "sinister" you say?
And you even go how "you stared into companion souls" - and then say "but you dont remember any of it!" so you even cut yourself off from that option of showing something meaningful to the player, some part of their memories or lore or something -

You writer.

Your first point falls flat on the face already, I'm afraid, as you clearly have no idea on the topic besides wikipedia expertise.

Sure, points fall on their faces because you just invented some stupid shit.




ach, this is too funny.

look,

You seem to be some sort of a dense person.

yeah? lets test that.

What medium does this game use to describe your experiences? Was it text? Wow, so it was!

Really? its all text?
Thats what video games use haha... and you even say "wow, so it was!" yourself.

Does this text at various parts of the game describe how your character feels? Huh, it does! I guess you're being told everything, then, this game is pure shit by your special logic.

Im being told everything?
In a vidya game?
And you even go to form that as "my special logic"
Is it? Because you just created that whole self defeating scenario in your little head eh?

Although after reading what you wrote, I think you have problems with contextualizing and possibly reading comprehension, so I suppose it's okay.

This just means youre just inventing these fantastic worlds in your head and throwing ludicrous statements around.
But its funny, you know, in a sarcastic way.

 

[Jools]

So, this thread is now officially about "what defines a writer?". Sales? Skills? Education? Anyone who writes? Who is to evaluate a writer? Does one have to be a writer to evaluate a writer? How can we judge who is worth enough a writer to evaluate other writers? Writergate! Writerception!

Inb4 "what is art".

Inb4:

 

[Shadenuat]

So I'm still in Act 3 due to a bit of a lack of free time. Some spoilers regarding an Act 1 questline inside as there's a revisit to it in Act 3.

For an Obsidian game this one does a lot to invalidate player's choices. I didn't even like what happens with your companions in prologue. Things like that never were used for a simple shocking value in Kotor 2 or MotB.

 

[Angthoron]

hiver, you need some tampons, I think you're bleeding all over the keyboard, mate.

 

[hiver]

I guess you need to write something gud.


-
yeah angthoron, more of stupid proclamations just stating something is a great comeback to the above

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

What does one writer matter?
Inb4 MCA does matter.

 

[hiver]

He did pretty fucking good with the Grieving mother.
Surprised me, especially because it starts like that. I was, really.. wtf is this story going ?

But it managed to turn even great, in a way.

And you know, of course, when you think that -

Spoiler

she is quite probably one of the extensions, branches of Ravel, but a positive one, in her own way, it all looks even bit brighter

Great dialogue ... kind of a battle, to open her memories and stuff, that was awesome. Dakkon much? ey? Seeing and not seeing and knowing.

Sweet stuff.
And i liked that little addition where in those dialogues that seem not to matter much, the game still remembers what answers you chose and writes a small personalized diary of events in your journal based on those choices.
that was cool too.

And discovering that sneaking can find special loot stashes all over the game, in the wild and the dungeons. Not sure if its dependent on stealth but it seems so.

 

[Angthoron]

So I'm still in Act 3 due to a bit of a lack of free time. Some spoilers regarding an Act 1 questline inside as there's a revisit to it in Act 3.

For an Obsidian game this one does a lot to invalidate player's choices. I didn't even like what happens with your companions in prologue. Things like that never were used for a simple shocking value in Kotor 2 or MotB.

True. I could expect it from other companies, but from Obsidian it's more than a little strange, and, I don't know, pointless and avoidable in every situation. All I want to ask is WHY? Why do this? It's actually going an extra mile to achieve a worse result.

He did pretty fucking good with the Grieving mother.
Surprised me, especially because it starts like that. I was, really.. wtf is this story going ?

GM is fantastic. She also follows MCA's usual theme of important NPCs, together with Durance. Gentle mother figure, harsh father figure. Rather Campbellian actually.

And discovering that sneaking can find special loot stashes all over the game, in the wild and the dungeons. Not sure if its dependent on stealth but it seems so.

Yes, you need to be in stealth (Scouting Mode) to find hidden stuff. Turn on Double Speed to save time backtracking for secrets.

 

[hiver]

yeha, thanks. you can also press escape to see game options you know...?

i meant that im not sure if you find more of those special stashes with higher stealth. not just that you have to be stealthing.


Durance, of course, is a

Spoiler

burning man, dark hidden dangerous powers and all, ... we just miss the skull

Great voicovers really additionally lift characters up, in my opinion. Well spent resources i think. Im actually letting all dialogues play out when there are any, that good.


About GM

Spoiler

I went straight to get her in a new game, just running through as quick as possible, and i get her back to Gilded Hills, we go to do that "get the potion for Calisca sister pregnancy" and i start the dialogue with that woman and it turns out GM has lines of dialogue for such a case :D !! Yess.

 

[Angthoron]

yeha, thanks. you can also press escape to see game options you know...?

i meant that im not sure if you find more of those special stashes with higher stealth. not just that you have to be stealthing.

Some of the secrets have higher requirements to spot, yes.

 

[dragonul09]

So I'm still in Act 3 due to a bit of a lack of free time. Some spoilers regarding an Act 1 questline inside as there's a revisit to it in Act 3.

For an Obsidian game this one does a lot to invalidate player's choices. I didn't even like what happens with your companions in prologue. Things like that never were used for a simple shocking value in Kotor 2 or MotB.

The main problem is that they wasted too much time on the lore galore and side quests, that they forgot their only strong point in their games ''non-linear branching storylines ''.Sadly the main storyline was disgustingly linear ,like most of the content in this game.

 

[Jools]

After having finished Act I and having given the matter some though, I want to share more impression on the game's writing. I shall mention two examples specifically. In both cases, my main issue with the way they've been written is that they are fairly "uninvolved", or that they don't make the PC feel "involved" enough. They seem random "episodes" inserted into the game, and other than their size, they barely feel like they have any actual relevance to the main story. This, the main story, by the end of Act I still doesn't seem to be going in any direction: there is a serious lack of dropping "hints", or "hooks", to entangle the player's interest, or the PC's for that matter, for what the hell is going on.

Typical interaction (hyperbole trigger warning):

NPC - So, PC, you can touch and read people's souls.
PC - Ummm, yeah, kinda, pretty cool right? Although I think, at times, it would drive me nuts, but who cares ok? I gots supapowa!
Player - Whatever, now just cast that fireball, ok?

I don't think it's just me here, but there's so much unexplored depth to what's going on. As someone said, the conversations seem to stop short of ever getting interesting, they stop right there at "lukewarm", whereas one would really want to know more about the "hot" stuff. I for one would have liked more of the "driving PC nuts", or more interactions from early party members. One would think they'd be curious, or shocked, or inquisitive upon finding out their "mate" is a watcher and does weird things. But, for the most part, they seem to care quite little, and so does the PC (and, in turn, the player). It's hard to identify/empathize with a character written like this, who seems not to give a shit in the first place.

For example, Obsidian did it much better in KotOR2: the whole "you're the chosen one" but "it's a curse" and "how and why the fuck am I like this?" thing. They got it right in the very first 10 minutes of gameplay: Kreia speaking to your mind, all the weird hints in the medical bay, the interactions with the party members... And, at the end of the say, it is a similar situation: PC is "special", there is a traumatic event (vastly underplayed and very low-key, in PoE), there are hints of a bigger threat at large, etc. Only, everything feels "distant" in PoE, it feel like watching a Let's Play of it on youtube. And I can't think of any other cause for this feeling than "average writing": it reminds me of vanilla Divnity 2 at times.

Wall of Text

1.Raedric/Kolsc/Keep "plotline".
Some lord is going nuts over the land upon which the PC's new house and new life rest, but there is little more to it. Paesants don't really complain that much, there aren't even that many quests to help them out of their misery. The hanging tree/tolling bell cutscene was ok, but the game doesn't really capitalize on that. Get to the keep, find out more things going on. A crazy lady in the dungeons going Mengele. Is she actually finding a cure, or just indulging the crazy local lord? A good-natured priest not really giving a fuck. A dead waifu about whom nobody, again, gives shit. And every one of these items just feels pretty much unrelated to the rest. Sure, priest wants you to stop the lady. Lady does not really provide much of an excuse not to kill her, nor a really compelling one to: I was even tempted to let her be, on my first playthrough. And she definitively could know something about the PC's condition, but there is no real option to ask her with any degree of depth. The antagonizing priest is as useless, he just wants his bumboy Giacco back, other than that, not really much he's going to reveal/do. Last, Raedric himself tries to win you over, but doesn't really explain much about the whole Raedric/Kolsc feud, now does he explain why he's gone so mental and fucked up the Vale that much. Kill Raedric, and Kolsc shows up, and it's KKTHXBAI. That's about it for one of the two major quests of Act I.

2.Blood Legacy.
Again, a quest that's supposedly very important and very related to the main plot, and to what's going on with the PC. A decent "hook" this time, a kidnapped/escaped daughter. Poke around a bit, find out she was seen around this tower. Enter the tower, confront its owners (again through fairly average and mostly shallow dialogue), find a dungeon. Clear the dungeon (which is averagely designed), and find out that was actually something that had a lot to do with the PC's condition and with the greater scheme of things. And again, other than a few decent interactions with GM, the resolution of the dungeon thing is fairly anti-climactic, and doesn't to much to pique the player's interest into getting to know more of the story. It is vaguely more "involved" that the other quest, but not by much, and nowhere near enough in my opinion. Specifically, if I were to pick what's wrong with the way this quest has been written, I'd say there is not enough "buildup" (side quests, hints, conversations, etC), nor enough depth to the pre-boss mandatory conversations, nor enough immediate consequences (go back to town, confront Father/Uncle, etc?) or depth to what little ones there are.

The writing isn't bad per se, but it definitively is worse than the sum of its parts. It's like a hotpot of different writing styles and stories, and they feel like they've been thrown in at random, without skimming and without much simmering so that everything would blend well. I finished Act I and it came as a surprise. What I, the PC, did in game, didn't feel really risolutive, nor important, and least of all it felt like leading to some kind of plot-related turning point (which is what should determine when an act ends and the next one begins). I hope the writing, and the game consequently, will pick up a bit with Act 2.

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

The writing isn't bad per se, but it definitively is worse than the sum of its parts. It's like a hotpot of different writing styles and stories, and they feel like they've been thrown in at random, without skimming and without much simmering so that everything would blend well. I finished Act I and it came as a surprise. What I, the PC, did in game, didn't feel really risolutive, nor important, and least of all it felt like leading to some kind of plot-related turning point (which is what should determine when an act ends and the next one begins). I hope the writing, and the game consequently, will pick up a bit with Act 2.

I've read some negative opinions regarding the ending of the second Act (I didn't make it there by now), but I think it's written better. Defiance Bay is cool with some exceptional moments, IMO.

 

[Sòren]

i'd say the worldbuilding and the atmosphere is quite gripping and immersive, but the dialogs and the charcters are definitely one of the dullest i have seen in a game so far.

remembers me that Arcanum is actually very, very good written btw

 

[Irenaeus]

I liked most dialogues and characters so far. Only Aloth seems boring.

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

I liked most dialogues and characters so far. Only Aloth seems boring.

His quest is also surprisingly short.

Spoiler

Just go to Sanitarium, speak to animancer... and that's all? Really?
I thought there was some potential to him, but it seems wasted. Well, on the other hand, there are other fantastic companions.[/quote]

 

[Irenaeus]

Mods should replace Aloth with a more interesting wizard. I can help with writing if anyone wants. And even voice acting.

 

[Duraframe300]

After having finished Act I and having given the matter some though, I want to share more impression on the game's writing. I shall mention two examples specifically. In both cases, my main issue with the way they've been written is that they are fairly "uninvolved", or that they don't make the PC feel "involved" enough. They seem random "episodes" inserted into the game, and other than their size, they barely feel like they have any actual relevance to the main story. This, the main story, by the end of Act I still doesn't seem to be going in any direction: there is a serious lack of dropping "hints", or "hooks", to entangle the player's interest, or the PC's for that matter, for what the hell is going on.

Typical interaction (hyperbole trigger warning):

NPC - So, PC, you can touch and read people's souls.
PC - Ummm, yeah, kinda, pretty cool right? Although I think, at times, it would drive me nuts, but who cares ok? I gots supapowa!
Player - Whatever, now just cast that fireball, ok?

I don't think it's just me here, but there's so much unexplored depth to what's going on. As someone said, the conversations seem to stop short of ever getting interesting, they stop right there at "lukewarm", whereas one would really want to know more about the "hot" stuff. I for one would have liked more of the "driving PC nuts", or more interactions from early party members. One would think they'd be curious, or shocked, or inquisitive upon finding out their "mate" is a watcher and does weird things. But, for the most part, they seem to care quite little, and so does the PC (and, in turn, the player). It's hard to identify/empathize with a character written like this, who seems not to give a shit in the first place.

For example, Obsidian did it much better in KotOR2: the whole "you're the chosen one" but "it's a curse" and "how and why the fuck am I like this?" thing. They got it right in the very first 10 minutes of gameplay: Kreia speaking to your mind, all the weird hints in the medical bay, the interactions with the party members... And, at the end of the say, it is a similar situation: PC is "special", there is a traumatic event (vastly underplayed and very low-key, in PoE), there are hints of a bigger threat at large, etc. Only, everything feels "distant" in PoE, it feel like watching a Let's Play of it on youtube. And I can't think of any other cause for this feeling than "average writing": it reminds me of vanilla Divnity 2 at times.

Wall of Text

1.Raedric/Kolsc/Keep "plotline".
Some lord is going nuts over the land upon which the PC's new house and new life rest, but there is little more to it. Paesants don't really complain that much, there aren't even that many quests to help them out of their misery. The hanging tree/tolling bell cutscene was ok, but the game doesn't really capitalize on that. Get to the keep, find out more things going on. A crazy lady in the dungeons going Mengele. Is she actually finding a cure, or just indulging the crazy local lord? A good-natured priest not really giving a fuck. A dead waifu about whom nobody, again, gives shit. And every one of these items just feels pretty much unrelated to the rest. Sure, priest wants you to stop the lady. Lady does not really provide much of an excuse not to kill her, nor a really compelling one to: I was even tempted to let her be, on my first playthrough. And she definitively could know something about the PC's condition, but there is no real option to ask her with any degree of depth. The antagonizing priest is as useless, he just wants his bumboy Giacco back, other than that, not really much he's going to reveal/do. Last, Raedric himself tries to win you over, but doesn't really explain much about the whole Raedric/Kolsc feud, now does he explain why he's gone so mental and fucked up the Vale that much. Kill Raedric, and Kolsc shows up, and it's KKTHXBAI. That's about it for one of the two major quests of Act I.

2.Blood Legacy.
Again, a quest that's supposedly very important and very related to the main plot, and to what's going on with the PC. A decent "hook" this time, a kidnapped/escaped daughter. Poke around a bit, find out she was seen around this tower. Enter the tower, confront its owners (again through fairly average and mostly shallow dialogue), find a dungeon. Clear the dungeon (which is averagely designed), and find out that was actually something that had a lot to do with the PC's condition and with the greater scheme of things. And again, other than a few decent interactions with GM, the resolution of the dungeon thing is fairly anti-climactic, and doesn't to much to pique the player's interest into getting to know more of the story. It is vaguely more "involved" that the other quest, but not by much, and nowhere near enough in my opinion. Specifically, if I were to pick what's wrong with the way this quest has been written, I'd say there is not enough "buildup" (side quests, hints, conversations, etC), nor enough depth to the pre-boss mandatory conversations, nor enough immediate consequences (go back to town, confront Father/Uncle, etc?) or depth to what little ones there are.

The writing isn't bad per se, but it definitively is worse than the sum of its parts. It's like a hotpot of different writing styles and stories, and they feel like they've been thrown in at random, without skimming and without much simmering so that everything would blend well. I finished Act I and it came as a surprise. What I, the PC, did in game, didn't feel really risolutive, nor important, and least of all it felt like leading to some kind of plot-related turning point (which is what should determine when an act ends and the next one begins). I hope the writing, and the game consequently, will pick up a bit with Act 2.

Well if you can pinpoint something so specifically and see a pattern a more than likely cause is that it was delibarate

. Like *Lets not make the players charachter the center of everything in the game, but give the world and npcs their own agency as well* ( Considering something similiar was initally mentioned as a goal definitly possible)

On its own a nobel goal, but due to unknown factors (time/being too careful/being too focused/ lacking ability) they went too far in the other direction to the extreme point where the charachter is little more than a bystander to the events.

Or as you just shortly summed up average writing.

Anyway, just wanted to mention a possible cause if its like this^^.

 

[Jools]

Well if you can pinpoint something so specifically and see a pattern a more than likely cause is that it was delibarate

. Like *Lets not make the players charachter the center of everything in the game, but give the world and npcs their own agency as well* ( Considering something similiar was initally mentioned as a goal definitly possible)

On its own a nobel goal, but due to unknown factors (time/being too careful/being too focused/ lacking ability) they went too far in the other direction to the extreme point where the charachter is little more than a bystander to the events.

Or as you just shortly summed up average writing.

Anyway, just wanted to mention a possible cause if its like this^^.

Please refrain from using the word "agency". It triggers me.

That aside, you'd be right, but I can't really see much "agency" in the world around the character. What you say makes sense and it would be a nice storytelling device, but the impression I am getting is that everyone is a clueless bystander, in the game's world, the PC in primis. As I mentioned, people and events seem to be just decor to the maps as much as a well, a broken cartwheel or a spent fireplace.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong by the rest of the game and by the allegedly improved writing that is to come, though.

 

[Irenaeus]

I disagree, I see peopel full of passion anywhere I look (except Aloth, but even he seems to hate the Dyrwood barbarians). You must be playing another game.

 

[Jools]

I disagree, I see peopel full of passion anywhere I look (except Aloth, but even he seems to hate the Dyrwood barbarians). You must be playing another game.

It's because you're playing the game through the passionate eyes of youthfulness and hopefulness. My sight is permanently hindered by a despair filter. All I see is empty pixels.

 

[Irenaeus]

I like youthfulness and hopefulness.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Agenda must be taken from RP; for example play as Priest of Eothas and you will have first part of game played from different perspective; on the other hand my aristocrat Paladin just killed Koelsc for lying to her and got cool
Woedica sword for it... Even Eder agreed most of his neighbors deserved the place on the tree. (not to mention all those plate armors from dead paladins slaughtered earlier which made Stronghold cakewalk.) Just avoid Sawyer written companions and all will be well.

Aloth is bro we hate Dyrwood hicks together.

 

[Irenaeus]

Which are Sawyer written companions specifically?