Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[Desiderius]

I'm beginning to think about class changing some of my characters.
Once the Priest gets some useful lvl 5 spells (Portal, Purify Air, Heal All, Sane Mind; most of these can be cast from items, though, and the Mage too can learn Portal) I think he needs to be more of a fighting man.

Hmm...my Priest can now pick lvl 5 spells, but Portal, Purify Air and Sane Mind does not appear, only Heal All.
His skills are Divinity 46(57), Air Magic 12 and Divine Magic 63 (he hasn't had the chance to "spam" spells from other skills than DM naturally). For DM he can pick lvl 5 spells, for the others only lvl 4 spells.

I believe realm skill is a small part of the calculus for which spell levels you're eligible to learn, so if it's very low you won't see those spells until a few levels beyond the minimum.

+1 per 10 Realm Skill. Need total of 60 for lvl5 spells IIRC, so you've got 57 + 6 >60 for Divine Spells but only 57 + 1 < 60 for Air.

 

[Jasede]

Yes exactly. I've always said this. Damage spells have their niche - but you need to build for them. A direct damage mage isn't bad at all. It's just that all the status effect spells are often more important. If your party starts with good disables, such as by having a Bard or something like that, you can afford to have a Mage spec for direct damage and it can be pretty helpful - although it's not always what you need.

On normal, yes. Expert requires some different tactics, tho disables aren't as useless there as some suppose.

Do you actually play this game?

 

[Desiderius]

Yes exactly. I've always said this. Damage spells have their niche - but you need to build for them. A direct damage mage isn't bad at all. It's just that all the status effect spells are often more important. If your party starts with good disables, such as by having a Bard or something like that, you can afford to have a Mage spec for direct damage and it can be pretty helpful - although it's not always what you need.

On normal, yes. Expert requires some different tactics, tho disables aren't as useless there as some suppose.

Do you actually play this game?

WTF kind of question is that? Go read the fucking Steam Forums, I was on there a good bit a few weeks ago, and I've played it two different stints in the past. DFortae got me playing his mod then the Steam Grognards bullied me into figuring out vanilla Expert so I spent a couple months getting (back) up to speed on that, then beyond using some of the stuff they were talking about plus extensive testing. They were saying that debuffs/disables are mostly a waste of time on Expert while they've always been my main go to because they facilitate skill-ups. Sure enough on Expert Hybrids have a tough time landing them and sometimes even Bishop. But it's not the case that they're ever useless if you fight on-level and attack weak resists. Sometimes nukes (including consumables) are necessary if you're underleveled against certain foes tho.

Somebody was trying to figure out if Lizard was ever worth it so I tested a Lizard Rogue and Fighter and put them in the front row since they unlocked Iron Skin absurdly early and it changed my whole approach. Ended up coasting thru Vanilla Expert without any Lizards but with Front Box occupied which I'd never tried before. Works great.

 

[Desiderius]

You phaggots complain if I post screenshots then talk shit if I don't. Make up your goddamned minds.

 

[octavius]

Death Rays!

Monsters are starting to get rude...no matter where I go they kill some of my party members.

 

[octavius]

So what's a counter to enemy Death Clouds, except Soul Shield?
Against the Death Rays' lvl 6 Death Clouds I cast a lvl 3 Purify Air, but it had no effect. Does Purify Air not work against Death Cloud, or do you have to match the power level (I thought it would reduce the effect)?
I assume casting it under water is not relevant? After all, casting Summon Elemental does not automatically produce a Water Elemental (OTOH I didn't get a Fire Elemental either).

 

[notpl]

Death Cloud is an air magic spell, so you need Element Shield, not soul. And purify air reduces the duration of hostile clouds, which isn't quite the same as reducing their effect - until it's gone completely, its power remains constant.

Remember to try and resurrect party members before combat ends if you want them to get XP - it's worth leaving a straggling enemy alive to do so before finishing the fight if you hate wildly uneven XP amounts like I do. Especially for a big combat payload like that one.

 

[0sacred]

is a Faerie Mage survivable? 5 HP lol


you wouldn't make a mage to pump vitality on them, right?

 

[Desiderius]

is a Faerie Mage survivable? 5 HP lol


you wouldn't make a mage to pump vitality on them, right?

Guardian Angel is your friend. Or just not getting hit. Mage doesn’t get many HP whatever you do. Rawulf Bish can get a decent amount.

 

[notpl]

In my experience faerie casters are not worth the hassle, "not getting hit" is a pipe dream with wiz 8's godawful initiative/turn order/random encounter system and they constantly get gibbed by enemy AoE even if you stick them in the middle surrounded by tanks.

 

[Desiderius]

Don’t put them in the middle, put them in the back with a tank or two in front box. Vi/Saxx/Bard/Ranger on flank (but use terrain to guard flanks where you can).

Missile Shield stops ranged, Magic Screen + Elemental Shield AoEs (which aren’t that common). Use long range AoEs of your own to start combat to manage initiative (select move so enemies use their turn closing the gap). Can also start combat around a corner then move into position to gain initiative on following turn (it will tell you you surprised your opponents). If you’re quick you can start combat immediately after using a key to surprise opponents on other side.

 

[octavius]

I must say that at this point (about lvl 15) I find the Gadgeteer increasingly inferior to the Bard.
The Bard has a whole host of useful spells at his disposal (Haste, Heal All, Hex, Freeze, Pandemonium, Bless), while the Gadgeteer can cast Armorplate for free, but that's about all. I even replaced the Omigun with a Musket. The Gadgeteer can't even use a Blunderbuss.

 

[notpl]

You're missing some very powerful gadgets, seemingly. The lava lamp (multicolored goo found in trynton) is a shockingly effective CC, gadgeteers get their own heal all, and the strobe light (prismatic spray) is one of the only really damaging spells in the game. And you should be using special ammo with the omnigun to apply things like KO, paralyze, and instant death constantly.

 

[0sacred]

I'm set on a party but can't decide on the last two characters.

Lizardman Lord

Dracon Samurai

Faerie Mage

Felpurr Bard


I think I want to include a Priest, I've heard that a power cast Priest is not worth it, but it seems like a shame to let those high level spells go to a waste.

edit: I wanted to make a magic heavy party, actually. I've never relied on offensive spells before

 

[notpl]

I've mentioned earlier that I think the monk is the best non-divine hybrid for actually casting spells, human or elf ideally. Psionic and Alchemist are the two spellbooks you're missing, so you could consider a pure class alchemist for raw firepower.

 

[octavius]

You're missing some very powerful gadgets, seemingly. The lava lamp (multicolored goo found in trynton) is a shockingly effective CC, gadgeteers get their own heal all, and the strobe light (prismatic spray) is one of the only really damaging spells in the game. And you should be using special ammo with the omnigun to apply things like KO, paralyze, and instant death constantly.

I guess I haven't tinkered enough with the gadgets I've found.

 

[Desiderius]

You're missing some very powerful gadgets, seemingly. The lava lamp (multicolored goo found in trynton) is a shockingly effective CC, gadgeteers get their own heal all, and the strobe light (prismatic spray) is one of the only really damaging spells in the game. And you should be using special ammo with the omnigun to apply things like KO, paralyze, and instant death constantly.

I guess I haven't tinkered enough with the gadgets I've found.

Omnigun requires good ammo and lvling up Modern Weapons early/midgame to get rolling. If you're whiffing you aren't training. Try Impaling Stones from Umpani. I like Felpurr Gadge since SPD is one of the Modern Weapon stats. Also want to get SEN to 100 ASAP. Can catch up on STR after that. The extra SPD gets the multiple attax rolling faster as well. By the time Omni can equip Bolts and Arrows (remember that Poison is also a debuff) which should be next level for you it's very good action econ so you can save the Gadget usage for once or twice per fight. Should also be able to get over to Bela to pick up the +20 STR Bracers.

The hidden mode on early Gadge is Duct Tape - it's really cheap - but it goes obsolete pretty fast as well. Lava Lamp is awesome but Armorplate alone is worth it because it saves a lot of Earth spell points and casts at a higher lvl than would otherwise be available when you get it, plus it trains Engineering. Don't sleep on the Guardian Angel one either.

 

[Desiderius]

I've mentioned earlier that I think the monk is the best non-divine hybrid for actually casting spells, human or elf ideally. Psionic and Alchemist are the two spellbooks you're missing, so you could consider a pure class alchemist for raw firepower.

If you can beat Resists on Expert with Monk you're a better player than me. I'm off of the Martial Arts classes for full party.

I like:

Rawulf Mage1/Bish INT/PIE (Wiz/Divine)
Gnome Psi INT + mix (SPD dump stat)
Mook Bard SEN + mix (xBow/Music with Sword/Board passively training on flank)
Felpurr Gadge SEN + mix (Omni/Gadge, L & T)
Human Ranger INT/SEN (Bow/Cast no melee, Myth/Scout/Alch rise naturally fast)
Drac Fighter STR/DEX (Sword/Board/Bow) Front Box tank (Breath is pretty good when needed if you have a Rest All battery - Vi does this well)

Vi + Myles/Saxx/Robot/maybe Tantris until Rodan and Drazic

Can make the Gnome a Mook for Staff Extended melee if you want, but need someone to train some Throwing for Powders and Bombs. Bishop can just cast with some Stix backup.

 

[octavius]

My guys are now lvl 15-16 in Wiz 8, and the game at this stage feels a bit too easy, at least against enemies that don't spam insanity, blinding, paralyzing or death magical attacks (fishmen, Black Slimes, big Spiders and Death Rays are the only enemies I fear now).
My front line is a humble trio of Priest, Samurai and Bard. Golems and Rapax hardly scratch the front liners, and the Death Lord didn't even make a dent in them. They have base AC of 7-10.

So now I have the Giant Sword, but it's Mook only. Is it worth class changing my Gadgeteer for it? He already was a Samurai, so that would be the natural choice, but I already have one Samurai, and I have this thing about not duplicating classes, so Fighter is more tempting. Since I'm also planning to change my Bard to Monk and put him in the rear with a Staff of some kind, that would fit nicely.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I never got w8 to run due to missing disk; can you swap out roster on the fly or are you locked with your guys for the whole game?

 

[octavius]

Unless I've failed to uncover an undocumented design feature it seems you are stuck with your guys. You can kick out RPCs, but the same option does not appear for the PCs.

Question: can a Gadgeteer turned Fighter still combine stuff to make gadgets? I see the components are Gadgeteer only, while the gadgets need the Engineer skill. I got the usual "can't combine" message when my new Fighter tried to tinker.

 

[Jasede]

This isn't a reply to your question but you really should invest into the Gadgeteer, high level Omnigun Mk. 9-12 are some of the best weapons in the game.

 

[octavius]

Hmm...I already have in-fighting in the party for ammo. But yeah, stopping the Gadgeteer career now would be a bit of a pity.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Guns for the win. A full team with guns?

 

[octavius]

Anyone have experience with parties based on books and movies?

For example a Lord of the Rings party:
Strider - Human Lord
Boromir - Human Fighter with Polearms skill ('cause the front gets too crowded otherwise)
Gandalf - Human Mage
Gimli - Dwarf Fighter with Axe skill
Legolas - Elf Ranger
Frodo - Hobbit Rogue

The main weaknesses is no Bard or Gadgeteer, and no Priest or Psionic means it takes longer to get Magic Screen and Soul Shield.


Or a Dragonlance party:
Tanis - Elf Fighter
Caramon - Human Fighter
Raistlin - Human Mage
Tasslehoff - Hobbit Rogue
Goldmoon - Human Cleric
Riverwind - Human Ranger
Flint - sorry, you are the weakest link, goodbye

A bit more balanced than the LotR party.