Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[octavius]

I'm getting a certain Unreal vibe from Wiz8...like the Monastery and Marten's Bluff (looks like a very simplified Bluff Eversmoking), and the general mix of SF and Fantasy.

 

[octavius]

Incidentally things are still going quite smoothly with my party.
Finally found the T'Rang.
I still have rested only once (and money is scarce).
Explored the Graveyard, but I seem to miss an item to use in the corner that lights up after activating all the tombstone glyphs.
Only one real party death (but I've done some instant reloading when unable to avoid some tedious encounters, like yet another party of tiresome plants) when meeting some "Deep Ones" (I can never remember their names) on the way to the Sea Cave. Tried to run away, but these freaks are much too fast and can run rings around my party and still be have enough time to casts spells or triple attack. Beat them the second time, though, and then performed a strategic mobile regrouping.

I'm beginning to think about class changing some of my characters.
Once the Priest gets some useful lvl 5 spells (Portal, Purify Air, Heal All, Sane Mind; most of these can be cast from items, though, and the Mage too can learn Portal) I think he needs to be more of a fighting man. He already was a Lord, so that's a natural choice. I know Fighter and Rogue are better, but it would be a pity not to be able to develop his divine skills further.

The Bard has now Music 87, and I want to turn him back to Monk when he reaches 100.

And my Fairy Mage was a Ninja, so that's tempting too, but I guess it depends a bit on which items I aquire. I got a Sai, for example. But Mage and Ninja is rather bad synergy magic wise, so Samurai would be better, except I already have a Samurai.
Maybe a Bishop would be better? After all I've been pumping up Piety.
The pitiful results of the Crush spell kind of make me wary of relying on direct damage spells; better to rely on buffing and disabling, I think.

 

[Jasede]

Personally I don't think think you want both a Bard and a Gadgeteer. They both kinda cover the same niche. And you can get RPCs for either role if you do want both.

I think I've never changed class in 8, except for "straight caster" into "more melee" such as Priest into Lord. Generally straight classes worked best.

Direct damage spells - almost every guide says they're not very good in Wizardry 8 and they aren't exactly wrong. But they're not as bad as the reputation either! Even a small bit of guaranteed damage is pretty good. And there's some absolutely massive encounters that take an hour (without the combat speed hack) where it's very helpful to have AoE spells.
However you really need to focus on them to make them any good so if you're not willing to have a caster laser focus on direct damage spells all the status effects are usually better. But keep in mind resistances are quite high on Expert.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

and the general mix of SF and Fantasy.

I miss when games would incorporate both sci-fi and fantasy and do it without mixing them together. Used to be significantly more common.

 

[octavius]

Personally I don't think think you want both a Bard and a Gadgeteer. They both kinda cover the same niche. And you can get RPCs for either role if you do want both.

Well, I suffer a bit from OCD when it comes to good items collecting dust and lacking the characters to use them. I usually don't meta game, so I don't use knowledge of RPCs, but in Wiz 6-8 I make an exception for creating characters that will be able to use restricted items. And knowing about the different endings and beginnings is useful when replaying the games.

Speaking of RPCs, I noticed that after I dismissed Sparkle she was able to move and attack thrice in one round with a melee weapon. It's like every non-PC get 1-2 free extra attacks...

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Mook Sam is kind of a trap becuase low DEX/SPD really hurts if you want to unlock Reflextion (and Sam kind of needs it to survive on Expert frontline) and low PIE is a pain to get spells functional as well. On the other hand off-hand swords aren't great on vanilla and Extended on Giant Sword is badly needed.

There's absolutely nothing trap about it, you get no dachi 30 seconds after entering Arnika and you're immediately MUCH better than standard, lore-friendly sam. Sam is not a rogue or fighter, you ain't getting those 100 unlocks fast anyway and while mook has them delayed a bit, it's not a problem in the big picture. I p. always build my sam dex/spd and never felt it. Having 2hander with occasional lighting strike and crit is exactly what helps you forget about the low str. Of course, you can give your sam bloodlust and it will be better than anything else, but that's true for everyone that can wield it, so moot point.

Samurai requires 55 dex and spd, mook samurai starts with the same value for these as any other race except felpurr/faerie. The piety part is true, though. Also, weapon weight has a big effect on how many swings you get per attack, so the Giant Sword is much worse than it first appears. If you want to use the giant sword, a Fighter will berserk with it to much better effect.

Of course fighter will be more of a presence killing power wise through most of the game. That's, like, duh. Thing is, 2h fighter is literally the most boring shit you can build in the entire game and while it's a great beginner class, it's just way too boring in general once you move past the learning stage.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Hurpaherpaderp.

Over my four playthroughs of Wiz8 I've never even seen the cane of corpus.

I don't remember the exact number but the drop rate is quite high and I've dropped it quite often.
Once or twice, I had a fairy ninja and it didn't drop so I had to reload once but it's possible to get very unlucky.

I don't use it that much because of its non-extended range.
Early on, the Hawaï Bo is decent and later you can get the Staff of Doom (cursed but extended, great for a Samurai) or the Zatoïchi Bo (Monk/Sam).

I still have rested only once (and money is scarce).

That's another good reason to have a Ranger whom use the Alchemy realm and can mix potions and powders.
Ninjas also use the alchemy spellbook.
That's where the money is, you can get a lot of money once you reach Arnika this way and soon, like Midas, you turn everything you touch into pure gold.

The pitiful results of the Crush spell kind of make me wary of relying on direct damage spells; better to rely on buffing and disabling, I think.

Crush damage is higly randomized.
But on the right enemy (low earth def), a high level Crush with power cast really hurts...

Same for high level fireball, two characters with high level fireball deal way more damage on a large group than any fighter because 35 dmg x 10+ targets x2 is hard to beat.
And that's without power cast.
A Wizard can do this pretty early.
A Samurai can do it by around level 10-15 depending on his magic skills training.
Same for the Ranger if he regularly uses some fire magic.

 

[Humbaba]

He's right though about the last part, damage spells are inferior to disables, because those are some TOUGH fucking disables. Even more so in 6 and 7.

 

[octavius]

I'm beginning to think about class changing some of my characters.
Once the Priest gets some useful lvl 5 spells (Portal, Purify Air, Heal All, Sane Mind; most of these can be cast from items, though, and the Mage too can learn Portal) I think he needs to be more of a fighting man.

Hmm...my Priest can now pick lvl 5 spells, but Portal, Purify Air and Sane Mind does not appear, only Heal All.
His skills are Divinity 46(57), Air Magic 12 and Divine Magic 63 (he hasn't had the chance to "spam" spells from other skills than DM naturally). For DM he can pick lvl 5 spells, for the others only lvl 4 spells.

 

[notpl]

I'm beginning to think about class changing some of my characters.
Once the Priest gets some useful lvl 5 spells (Portal, Purify Air, Heal All, Sane Mind; most of these can be cast from items, though, and the Mage too can learn Portal) I think he needs to be more of a fighting man.

Hmm...my Priest can now pick lvl 5 spells, but Portal, Purify Air and Sane Mind does not appear, only Heal All.
His skills are Divinity 46(57), Air Magic 12 and Divine Magic 63 (he hasn't had the chance to "spam" spells from other skills than DM naturally). For DM he can pick lvl 5 spells, for the others only lvl 4 spells.

I believe realm skill is a small part of the calculus for which spell levels you're eligible to learn, so if it's very low you won't see those spells until a few levels beyond the minimum.

 

[Darth Canoli]

He's right though about the last part, damage spells are inferior to disables, because those are some TOUGH fucking disables. Even more so in 6 and 7.

Nobody in his right mind will dispute that fact.

But it depends on your enemies HP, numbers, group numbers, resistances and how scattered they are.
Once you get high enough magic skills:
Low HP (<50) and grouped foes are best dealt with AoE damage spells.
Average HP (<100) and grouped monsters are best delt with AoE damage spells if you can cast 2 per turn.
High HP monsters are best dealt with disables.

It also depends on your ranged capabilities, because multiple damage AoE spells + skilled multi-shot ranged characters will just wipe your enemies out before they even reach close combat.
And it's wise to throw a couple of AoE damaging spells on enemy mages and also lock them with your ranger and/or your gadgeteer so they can't even act and disable your party.

On the other hand, if you're surrounded or about to be, multiple disables is the only way to survive.

 

[Jasede]

Yes exactly. I've always said this. Damage spells have their niche - but you need to build for them. A direct damage mage isn't bad at all. It's just that all the status effect spells are often more important. If your party starts with good disables, such as by having a Bard or something like that, you can afford to have a Mage spec for direct damage and it can be pretty helpful - although it's not always what you need.

 

[octavius]

So in Wiz 8 I got a mission from Ballbreaker to report to Rubble for more training. However, he is nowhere to be found, and I need lvl 5 clearance to access the staff areas. There's some training computer that breaks when I try to use it. Tried to use the wires I found at Marten's Bluff to fix it, but that didn't work. Can't carry it back either.
The only place to go is down, but my party ran away to a safe space when facing Black Slimes (nasty, nasty!).
Can't report back to Ballbreaker; he says I report to the general now, but I'm still stuck with a lvl 3 cleareance. Oh well, I guess I just have to explore other areas and return to the Black Slimes area later.

BTW, what use is the Light spell? I guess some spam it to increase Fire Magic, but then you can already spam Energy Blast in combat (most enemies have relatively low Fire res).

 

[notpl]

You don't need any item to fix the training computer, just plug the wires back in and then you can do the training.

The purpose of the light spell is to make things brighter. Was that a serious question?

 

[octavius]

The purpose of the light spell is to make things brighter. Was that a serious question?

But there's no dark areas (so far)?

You don't need any item to fix the training computer, just plug the wires back in and then you can do the training.

Hmm...I must have missed something obvious.

 

[octavius]

Heh, you have to click on an individual wire.

 

[Darth Canoli]

But there's no dark areas (so far)?

But there is.
In the lower monastery, for instance (sewers part) and in the retro dungeon you can unlock from the cemetery in Arnika road (between the monastery exit and Arnika).

Spoiler

There is some runes to activate behind a couple of tombstones, you might need a common dagger and stick it somewhere first, yeah, it's a tough one to find.

It's also quite dark whenever you travel at night, particularly in the swamps.
It might depend on your screen brightness and contrast settings, Wizardry 8 doesn't have pitch black areas for no good reason like most modern garbage.

 

[octavius]

I think the main thing that makes Wiz8 much easier than Wiz7 is that mana regeneration is so rapid. I haven't needed to rest once, except for the Mook incident. So I can "unleash hell" if I want to and generally experiment with spells, and not worry too much about running out of mana.
And now that my Bard got the Dulcimer of Heal All, I don't even need to use much magic in most battles.
The most scary things at this stage (lvl 14-15) are monsters that spam group status effects, like Black Slimes and Cave Spiders, since they always get the initiative. In hindsight I guess I should have given my Priest and Mage more Speed. My second party death came from four Cave Spiders spamming Web, making the whole party helpless.

 

[Tony]

I think the main thing that makes Wiz8 much easier than Wiz7 is that mana regeneration is so rapid. I haven't needed to rest once, except for the Mook incident. So I can "unleash hell" if I want to and generally experiment with spells, and not worry too much about running out of mana.
And now that my Bard got the Dulcimer of Heal All, I don't even need to use much magic in most battles.
The most scary things at this stage (lvl 14-15) are monsters that spam group status effects, like Black Slimes and Cave Spiders, since they always get the initiative. In hindsight I guess I should have given my Priest and Mage more Speed. My second party death came from four Cave Spiders spamming Web, making the whole party helpless.

This is much different than my experience through all my playthroughs. I was always out of mana and always resting to restore it. I definitely cast over and over for skill increases, but even if I didn't I'd be out of mana pretty constantly, especially early game.

 

[notpl]

I didn't realize mana even regenerated without resting or equipping an SP-restore item, of which there are not many.

 

[octavius]

My main caster Buzzzzz is a Fairy (extra regen) Mage, while Valks, Gadgeteer and a Samurai provide all the buffing, protection and utility (except Portal) spells. So Buzzzzz can concentrate on the battle spells when they are needed. Now that I got that Dulcimer it's rarely needed, though, it's more like "Oh, I'm fully stocked up on Fire Magic, so I guess I can toss a Fireball". I don't even need to spend mana on Heal spells.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Do we consider Wizards & Warriors sort of part of the Wizardry experience? I mean, i sure felt some wizardry vibes with it.

Was there already a difficulty rating thread on toughest wizardry to easiest?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Do we consider Wizards & Warriors sort of part of the Wizardry experience? I mean, i sure felt some wizardry vibes with it.

Was there already a difficulty rating thread on toughest wizardry to easiest?

It's as much of a wizardry as grimoire is

which is significantly more than anything using the wizardry license after wiz8

 

[Desiderius]

Yes exactly. I've always said this. Damage spells have their niche - but you need to build for them. A direct damage mage isn't bad at all. It's just that all the status effect spells are often more important. If your party starts with good disables, such as by having a Bard or something like that, you can afford to have a Mage spec for direct damage and it can be pretty helpful - although it's not always what you need.

On normal, yes. Expert requires some different tactics, tho disables aren't as useless there as some suppose.

 

[Desiderius]

Mook Sam is kind of a trap becuase low DEX/SPD really hurts if you want to unlock Reflextion (and Sam kind of needs it to survive on Expert frontline) and low PIE is a pain to get spells functional as well. On the other hand off-hand swords aren't great on vanilla and Extended on Giant Sword is badly needed.

There's absolutely nothing trap about it, you get no dachi 30 seconds after entering Arnika and you're immediately MUCH better than standard, lore-friendly sam. Sam is not a rogue or fighter, you ain't getting those 100 unlocks fast anyway and while mook has them delayed a bit, it's not a problem in the big picture. I p. always build my sam dex/spd and never felt it. Having 2hander with occasional lighting strike and crit is exactly what helps you forget about the low str. Of course, you can give your sam bloodlust and it will be better than anything else, but that's true for everyone that can wield it, so moot point.

Samurai requires 55 dex and spd, mook samurai starts with the same value for these as any other race except felpurr/faerie. The piety part is true, though. Also, weapon weight has a big effect on how many swings you get per attack, so the Giant Sword is much worse than it first appears. If you want to use the giant sword, a Fighter will berserk with it to much better effect.

Of course fighter will be more of a presence killing power wise through most of the game. That's, like, duh. Thing is, 2h fighter is literally the most boring shit you can build in the entire game and while it's a great beginner class, it's just way too boring in general once you move past the learning stage.

It's absolutely a trap with full party even with No-Dachi because RPCs (or other characters ahead of Sam in party order) will steal your short-range melee attax and you're not beating any resists on Expert with DEX/SPD(?) build. If you leave STR low you're going to have more problems than that. Agreed that 2H is probably the way to go on Sam (because off-hand Swords aren't great and DW takes awhile to get there) but unless you're running small party or grinding a ton Crits will be few and far between. 2H Fighter is fine but Sword and Board (plus XBow) in front box really helps party survivability giving you time to skill up. Bloodlust is like Magic Damage Party in that it takes away a lot of skill up chances.