Ultima The Ultima Underworld I & II Thread

[Gord]

Toughness makes the item itself more resistant to damage, while Protection reduces the damage you take from an attack.

So toughness would only increase the amount of damage an item can take before it gets destroyed, but not reduce the damage the player takes from monster attacks?

Edit: I only ask because of stuff like that post from one old Codex LP:

Tests I run shows that moderately strong enemies cannot harm the Avatar in a full suit of leather armour with high Toughness enchantment.

 

[magospietato]

Origin were pretty good with covering up techninal limitations with some bizarre-o explanations. The core Ultimas have a party of adventurers, while the Ultima Underworlds are solo adventures. They had to come up with an explanation as to why Iolo, Dupre, Julia og Geoffrey wouldn't accompany you this time round. The reason? They didn't come up with one. The game logic in this game isn't just lacking at times, it's ridiculous. Like where are the towers of Castle British? How come the inhabitants of the castle haven't suffocated due to lack of oxygen?

This, and so many other things, are what make Ultima Underworld 2 the inferior game of the two. Technologically superior, yes, but inferior in every other way. I wrote a couple of long reviews of the Underworld games recently, I'm thinking about revising the text before posting them here.

I'm pretty sure Austin Grossman acknowledged that Ultima Underworld 2 was rushed to market, (see here) which I think explains the criticisms. I'm a whore for worldbuilding though, so the multiple worlds thing made UWII my favourite of the two in spite of the nonsensical main story arc.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I had to dig to find the correct answer, but the true answer is that BOTH values affect the protection of an item of armour.

An item starts out by reducing the damage you receive. Leather items take off 2 points of damage, chain items 4 points and plate items 6. BUT, here's the thing I didn't know earlier, is that the state of the item in question also affects how much damage is reduced by the armour. The numbers above assume that the piece of armour is in 'excellent' condition, but the protection offered will lower the more damaged the armour is. A servicable chainshirt, for example, reduces damage by 61-80% of its maximum possible protection, which could be 4 points but most likely will only be 3 points. This should give a numerical reason why one should strive to have one's armour in tip-top shape.

Still, I think it is better to have an item with a "Protection" enchantment rather than a "Toughness" enchantment, because the damage reduction will help keep you alive instead of having a standard chainshirt that takes much longer to break.

What I'm wondering now is how much damage is reduced with the "Protection" enchantment - especially since there are 8 levels of it. Surely it can't be 1 point per level? Then a Plate Mail of Unsurpassed Toughness would reduce 14 points of damage, and that can be increased further with the (Vas/Bet) In Sanct spells, for a maximum possible of 19 points of damage reduced!

 

[someone else]

Toughness makes the item itself more resistant to damage, while Protection reduces the damage you take from an attack.

Where did you get the info?
My tests in my lp shows that "toughness" is the armor equivalent of "damage" enchantment in weapons. It is the enchantment that reduces damage, without enchantment I get damage, with enchantment I don't get damaged. The armor quality is the same. Which is why I end up wearing only leather armor with toughness enchantment.
Not sure about protection, it might be the armor equivalent of "accuracy" in weapons. I suppose you can test by counting the difference in the number of times you get hit.

Max level is 15, but you can get extra skill points even after that. Easiest way is to kill your own summoned daemons. But they leave blood and bones after they die and there is a limit on the number of items in a level before things start disappearing. I remove them the blood with fireballs or the axe of firery Doom then toss them in water.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

My source is the UUW2 cluebook, but I'll admit that it should not be considered the final word. For that the code itself would have to be consulted. To be honest I'm not so sure anymore, but the way I explained it sounds like the obvious reason. I'll happily admit that I could be wrong.

I had considered starting summoning deamons to try to gain more XP, but currently I'm trying to get an idea of which particular actions in UUW2 yield XP. For example you get only about 22 XP for butchering all the Goblins in the Prison Tower by hand, but freeing Garg earns you 15 XP regardless of whether the Goblins are alive or not.

 

[Gord]

Hm, so according to UC's explanation, an full suit of leather armor enchanted with Toughness wouldn't give a higher damage reduction, if the condition of the armor is the same, it would only take longer to wittle it down, thus the armor would keep its protection value longer.
According to SE however, toughness would reduce damage, but protection would make you harder to hit.

In principle it should be possible to run some test with a few full suits of armor with and without enchantments...

 

[someone else]

My source is the UUW2 cluebook, but I'll admit that it should not be considered the final word. For that the code itself would have to be consulted. To be honest I'm not so sure anymore, but the way I explained it sounds like the obvious reason. I'll happily admit that I could be wrong.

I have both UW clue books and read them numerous times, there is no mention the exact effect.

Weapons are enchanted for either accuracy or damage. Armor is enchanted for either protection or armor...

 

[Gord]

Hm, that does indeed sound a bit like protection reducing enemy to-hit chance, and toughness increasing armor, thus reducing damage.

 

[Gord]

Just finished UU2.

Didn't get the blackrock serpent from the Goblins, though.
One of them thanked me for killing the worms around the lake, but I never received the serpent.

 

[octavius]

Just finished UU2.

Congrats.

Didn't get the blackrock serpent from the Goblins, though.
One of them thanked me for killing the worms around the lake, but I never received the serpent.

Oh no, that means you can't play Serpent's Isle.

 

[Gord]

Oh now, that means you can't play Serpent's Isle.

Oh noes!

 

[Absalom]

Honestly, was armour durability really a big issue? By the time an armour degraded I had already found superior or equivalent armour. Once in the first one I had to visit the blacksmith to repair it but I think it was more because I had a lot of money and not enough to spend it on than because it was necessary.

Reminds me, I need to give Arx Fatalis another try

 

[Gord]

Not really, no.
Durability is something of an issue early on, when your skills are low.
The armor/weapons you find are of generaly lower quality then, they degrade faster because you get hit more often (or you damage it yourself) and you can't repair it so easily.

 

[wildh0rse]

Hi Everyone! I know this is an old thread, but I found it in the course of my research for my "Advanced Walkthrough" for Ultima Underworld II. I've done some crazy-ass stuff and made one or two discoveries in both I and II.
I am so glad to see people playing this classic RPG... both were groundbreaking at their release, which while well noted here was witnessed by myself personally. I still remember the commotion over this game when it came out, everyone was talking about it. I had both clue books, the first went missing but the second sits right beside me.

I learned of the "debris" thing and after so many times playing, using this trick gave me a depth that I was missing. Free of Mana and casting skill I could explore at will. I have to say, Praecor Loth's tomb still seems pretty scary LOL! Exploring the western area on the last level turns up some crazy traps and magic items. The Vest of Flameproof RULES

In Mitch Aigner's SUPERB walkthrough for UU1, he states that "it is written that there is a secret way to level 4" but he "never found it". I have not either. Has anyone investigated this? I have hacked into the central area and cannot find any secret doors or teleports on any level (except 8 with the slasher of veils...)

Also, where in the hell is this "Lotus Esprit Turbo"?! Is it in the code, unrendered? Is it in UU1 or UU2?

I hope I can reactivate this thread - I have some fun things to tell you and I gotta get a screenie of something that happened when I casted Tremor, it will blow your mind

Wh

 

[octavius]

I hope I can reactivate this thread - I have some fun things to tell you and I gotta get a screenie of something that happened when I casted Tremor, it will blow your mind

Please do.

 

[wildh0rse]

I hope I can reactivate this thread - I have some fun things to tell you and I gotta get a screenie of something that happened when I casted Tremor, it will blow your mind

Please do.

On level 6 of the Abyss, I was in the Northeast part with all the lava. I was late-game in stats and exploring a little before I ended the game. I casted Tremor and something REALLY Weird happened......

ALL my inventory dissapeared and was replaced by a yellow Smiley Face in the first inventory circle under the avatar. When I right=clicked it was identified as "An Adventurer". I tried to drop it, and all my inventory appeared all around me, along with what looked like an NPC also identified as "an adventurer"! Which promptly ran off and disappeared.....

Has anyone seen this?!?!

 

[octavius]

I haven't seen it personally, but it sounds vaguely familiar.

 

[wildh0rse]

I haven't seen it personally, but it sounds vaguely familiar.

Really?! Can you elaborate? I havent seen it. Apparantly, even though there is nothing in my inventory, anything and everything is "too heavy" to pick up...???

Has anyone ever figured out these things in UU1:

1. The Grey Lizardman on Leve 4 who claims his leader is that of the red lizardman. What DO you say to him?

2. On Level 4, you encounter a note addressed to Lakshi telling him to entrust his messenger (the Avatar??) with something. You can't bring this to his attention, and asking about "note" or "message" or "messenger" does not avail - is this note significant, then? What is it for?

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I hope I can reactivate this thread - I have some fun things to tell you and I gotta get a screenie of something that happened when I casted Tremor, it will blow your mind

Please do.

On level 6 of the Abyss, I was in the Northeast part with all the lava. I was late-game in stats and exploring a little before I ended the game. I casted Tremor and something REALLY Weird happened......

ALL my inventory dissapeared and was replaced by a yellow Smiley Face in the first inventory circle under the avatar. When I right=clicked it was identified as "An Adventurer". I tried to drop it, and all my inventory appeared all around me, along with what looked like an NPC also identified as "an adventurer"! Which promptly ran off and disappeared.....

Has anyone seen this?!?!

Next time something like this happens, please take a screenshot for all of us. It isn't hard to do if you are using DOSBox as it is merely a Ctrl-F5 switch action.

 

[Sceptic]

Apparantly, even though there is nothing in my inventory, anything and everything is "too heavy" to pick up...???

Are you playing the unpatched game? Original release had some.... really weird bugs that could trigger for a variety of reasons and that ruined your inventory in the most bizarre ways. The one I got replaced all my inventory (including essential quest items) with blood puddles, the ones that enemies leave behind when you kill them (and that you cannot pick up or interact with in any way normally). I think it was some kind of buffer overflow, the game can no longer keep track of something or other and everything goes weird. Around the same time trying to shift+J to jump would crash the game. I could still do it by running and right-click or running and J, but obviously this was more awkward. And then when the inventory bug happened the game would just randomly crash shortly after loading the save.

The patch did fix all these problems, though it may have left other more obscure ones.

1. The Grey Lizardman on Leve 4 who claims his leader is that of the red lizardman. What DO you say to him?

Probably a small bug. The entire dialog of that grey is identical to the reds IIRC. LG probably just miscoded him as a red and never fixed it.

2. On Level 4, you encounter a note addressed to Lakshi telling him to entrust his messenger (the Avatar??) with something. You can't bring this to his attention, and asking about "note" or "message" or "messenger" does not avail - is this note significant, then? What is it for?

I don't remember this. Where on level 4 is it? It might be a leftover from something they cut out, IIRC Lakshi really doesn't have much to say in the final game.

 

[wildh0rse]

Apparantly, even though there is nothing in my inventory, anything and everything is "too heavy" to pick up...???

I am playing the patched game.

2. On Level 4, you encounter a note addressed to Lakshi telling him to entrust his messenger (the Avatar??) with something. You can't bring this to his attention, and asking about "note" or "message" or "messenger" does not avail - is this note significant, then? What is it for?

I don't remember this. Where on level 4 is it? It might be a leftover from something they cut out, IIRC Lakshi really doesn't have much to say in the final game.

It's on Level 4 near the goblins' area somewhere, in my current saved game I got rid of it. I did notice today that if you DON'T have that note, you don't have "Other..." as a conversation option with Lakshi. Which means there's something there...

PS - Did anyone know you can enchant rings and other objects in UU2? I have a Resilient Sphere of Major Toughness for sale if anyone wants it

PPS - There's an item in Talorus in UU2 called a "curious implement". It is a key; try it and see - what does it open???. Looks like a gold tuning fork with a red handle.... anyone?

 

[Sceptic]

It's on Level 4 near the goblins' area somewhere, in my current saved game I got rid of it. I did notice today that if you DON'T have that note, you don't have "Other..." as a conversation option with Lakshi. Which means there's something there...

huh! Now that's an interesting find, will have to keep an eye out when I replay.

PS - Did anyone know you can enchant rings and other objects in UU2?

Yes. Wasn't it one of the spells you learn in Killorn Keep? It's pretty powerful too.

PPS - There's an item in Talorus in UU2 called a "curious implement". It is a key; try it and see - what does it open???. Looks like a gold tuning fork with a red handle.... anyone?

Is this found in that pile of junk on the lower level? I remember finding a bunch of weird items down there and could never find any use for any of them. Except for that one quest item that's hidden down there.

 

[wildh0rse]

My goof - I was confusing two different things. You always have the "Canst thou tell me of..." or something in the conversation.

You can enchant the "strange artifact" in the Purple Prize area and wear it like a ring. The latest in Talorid Phashun this season x-D

The Curious Implement item is found on Level 1 of Talorus in that southwest room with tons of useless crystals.

No word on that secret way to level 4, huh? Or the Lotus, lol?

 

[Sceptic]

No word on that secret way to level 4

I remember more than one way to level 4 but don't remember one being "super-secret". There was a secret way to level 5 through the "bullfrog puzzle" that sent you directly into the tombs (right near the empty grave of Garamon IIRC) but I don't think this is what you had in mind.

I remmeber filling up most of the automap in the game. There were some empty passages in the lower levels that you could get to with Roaming Sight, but nothing that indicated a secret passage.

 

[wildh0rse]

LOL In Mitch Aigner's walkthough he stated that "it is written somewhere" (I love that) that there was a secret way to Level 4 but he never found it. Niether, I guess, did anyone else.

Here's another one: The "Grand Staircase" of the Abyss. Is this just a decoration or is there some further significance?

And again - the LOtus Esprit Turbo???? Anyone? LOL