Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

The Random Adventure Game News Thread

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
Patron
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
28,580
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
Daedalic's CEO seemingly teasing a new Deponia game?

https://twitter.com/CFichtelmann/status/608963561163993088

???? #daedalic #deponia

CHN5HjZWMAAjreU.jpg

Fuck yeah if so. It's my favorite Daedalic series.

My vote is no. Please don't.

It's been said, but the trilogy ended well and there's no way they can make a fourth game without ruining that and invalidating "the point" that the trilogy made.
 

evdk

comrade troglodyte :M
Patron
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
11,292
Location
Corona regni Bohemiae
Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I find the distinct lack of Deadalic titles disturbing. Made more so by the inclusion of modern hipster garbage.

Where is Memoria, you bastards?
 

Crooked Bee

(no longer) a wide-wandering bee
Patron
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
15,048
Location
In quarantine
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Emily Short's recent article on conversation models is a pretty cool read: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Emil...hy_I_Am_Obsessed_With_Conversation_Models.php

I want to try these IF games now:

I can think of very few games, indie or commercial, hobbyist or AAA, IF or not, that come anywhere close to this. Make It Good, perhaps — and it’s a very difficult, very inaccessible kind of work, but one of the masterpieces of modern interactive fiction. Slouching Towards Bedlam is full of scenes in which diegetic agency is possible but the player is unlikely to realize it on the first playthrough; it’s only on replay that one recognizes how the story can be bent at those moments. It works because it’s modeling a specific kind of action to have decisive, supernatural influence on the story, but the player doesn’t know this initially. Façade observes the player’s behavior and triggers a lot of different outcomes depending on that behavior, but it does so in such a black-box, inscrutable way that it’s rare to feel remotely in control of the situation. Prom Week offers a lot of detail on a large social network and allows the player to play with it inventively, but there’s so much data available about how every character feels towards every other that it can be hard to master the playing field.

Blood & Laurels sounds interesting too.
 

Melan

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
6,976
Location
Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae, Hungary
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. I helped put crap in Monomyth
A lot of hyperbole circles around the Monkey Island games. They are, without question, the most well-known adventure games of the 90s. I think as a consequence of that, they’re often confused for being the best. They’re not. Especially the first, which is actually a rather short, dull game.
Behead all RPS.

And no Quest for Glory? Really? No mention of the Goblins series? Kyrandia? Beneath a Steel Sky????!!! :whatho:

This is like that FPS list of theirs where they left out the Build engine games.
 

JudasIscariot

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
2,001
Location
IV Republic of Polandia
Serpent in the Staglands Codex USB, 2014
A lot of hyperbole circles around the Monkey Island games. They are, without question, the most well-known adventure games of the 90s. I think as a consequence of that, they’re often confused for being the best. They’re not. Especially the first, which is actually a rather short, dull game.
Behead all RPS.

And no Quest for Glory? Really? No mention of the Goblins series? Kyrandia? Beneath a Steel Sky????!!! :whatho:

This is like that FPS list of theirs where they left out the Build engine games.

And Sanitarium is forgotten once again :(
 

Daedalos

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
5,611
Location
Denmark
Primordia deserves a spot on that list!

Just wait for STASIS to be released, it's gon' shatter that list !
 

taxalot

I'm a spicy fellow.
Patron
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Messages
10,100
Location
Your wallet.
Codex 2013 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
I thought we all agreed that the next most useless thing to use "Top X games" list was discussing Top X Games list.
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,719
Location
California
I'm sure the Tale of Tales's departure has been covered in General Gaming (where I assume someone noted the irony of the first commenter on RPS saying he'd never heard that Sunset was released when ToT groused about RPS readers adblocking their ads). The only thing I can add, which really is a general point bearing on the decline of all things, is the following from a positive Steam review of Primodia: "Play is somewhat frustrating because you have to find items then combine them while in your inventory for use on items in the environment." Rather than giving up, ToT should be singing, "Tomorrow Belongs to Me."
 

Redlands

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
983
I'm sure the Tale of Tales's departure has been covered in General Gaming (where I assume someone noted the irony of the first commenter on RPS saying he'd never heard that Sunset was released when ToT groused about RPS readers adblocking their ads). The only thing I can add, which really is a general point bearing on the decline of all things, is the following from a positive Steam review of Primodia: "Play is somewhat frustrating because you have to find items then combine them while in your inventory for use on items in the environment." Rather than giving up, ToT should be singing, "Tomorrow Belongs to Me."

Don't feel bad: it's a problem for everyone, even reviewers. Reviews are somewhat frustrating because you have to read words then combine them while in your mind for use on meanings in your memory, after all.
 

Crooked Bee

(no longer) a wide-wandering bee
Patron
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
15,048
Location
In quarantine
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Article / interview on Chris Crawford's KS Siboot over at RPS: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/07/01/chris-crawford/

Chris Crawford is a contradiction: mythologized for his bold vision for the future of games; criticised and dismissed for his lifelong failure to accomplish that bold vision. His numerous critics see him as out of touch and over the hill. A washout. An unrepentant failure. Someone who should give it up and walk away. But he can’t bring himself to do that. He has a dream, and he hasn’t finished laying the groundwork for someone else to carry that dream forward. Crawford is driven by a singular vision — by an idea that he’s pursued doggedly since he left the games industry over 20 years ago. And even now, as I speak to him about Siboot [official site], his latest attempt to spruik his dream of character-driven interactive storytelling, he remains tormented by a dragon he knows he will never slay.


The famed designer of Atari 800 wargame Eastern Front 1941 and 1985 geopolitical thriller Balance of Power (a game in which your goal was to prevent war from breaking out) left the games industry in 1992 during a speech at the Game Developers’ Conference — the yearly meeting of minds that had begun in his living room five years earlier. In a talk immortalised as The Dragon Speech (you can see it in five parts on YouTube), he decried the narrowing breadth and growing monotony of commercial games.

He spoke of his dream for games that would express the full breadth of human experience and emotion. And he called for games that combine the interactive immediacy of play with the dramatic punch of a great story — not as separate entities that you swap back and forth but as one and the same. (Then he charged out of the room screaming at a metaphorical dragon that he swore to one day fight for these dreams.)

His latest effort at fighting that old foe attempts to rectify the biggest mistakes of Storytron, which was an over-ambitious, overly-complicated unusable mess that even he could scarcely manipulate to his storytelling whims. This new thing is called Siboot, which may sound familiar to the two of you who remember Crawford’s well-reviewed but commercially-disastrous 1987 relationship sim Trust and Betrayal: The Legacy of Siboot. The new Siboot borrows the world and premise of the old one — figure out whom you can trust and whom to betray by judging what they say against what’s visible (or subtly hidden) in their facial expression. But Crawford has rebuilt the whole thing from scratch with a new design that cherry picks the best bits from Storytron and from his decades of research.

siboot2.jpg


“With Siboot I told myself I’m going to strip [Storytron] down,” Crawford says. “Any complexity that isn’t absolutely necessary gets ripped out. I got the balance much better now, with a much simplified system. It is much easier to work with; it’s easier to make design decisions with it. It is much much easier to write the algorithms that control the character behaviour.”

The key to Siboot’s supposed power seems to be that its story is run through algorithms. Its key moments are not written in any traditional sense, but rather designed. Big whoop, you say? There are lots of games in which the story emerges organically according to your decisions and those of your artificial opponents — take Crusader Kings or Civilization, for instance, which both provide complex systems upon which all sorts of interesting decisions can be made. But Crawford argues that these sorts of games don’t count because they “are not very dramatically interesting stories.”

“It might be fascinating to the person who experiences it,” he says, “but ultimately we have to ask does it really approach the quality of what we normally call a story? And the answer with almost all games is, well, no.”

It’s a bold, somewhat dismissive statement that appears at face value to trivialise the achievements of game developers over the past two decades. And it’s likely to immediately get some people on the defensive. But to do so would be missing the point. Crawford doesn’t say this out of malice, and he no longer says it out of ignorance — despite past comments that he’d stopped playing games entirely, he now pays attention to what’s coming out and reads about or watches videos of many new titles (although it’s still rare that he plays something himself).

Games today are incredibly broad and varied. They tackle themes such as poverty, depression, love, war, duty, regret, longing, and death in myriad ways. “The indies,” Crawford says, “are the best thing that have happened to this industry in a long, long time.” The proliferation of cheaper, better tools and more efficient distribution systems has brought with it an explosion in creativity in terms of both development and criticism of games. It’s brilliant, he agrees, and many fascinating ideas have come out of it. But for Crawford it’s not enough.

siboot3.jpg


“The types of changes that I am observing are really fine improvements on fundamentally ancient architectures,” he says. “I can respect the way they took this classic architecture and rendered it for modern technology and modern capabilities, but deep down inside it’s still the classic design. That doesn’t make it bad. Shakespeare is still good today, even if Hamlet is using a machine gun instead of a sword.”

Crawford feels there is something very specific yet vitally important that remains absent from videogames past and present — something that he believes would bring with it a paradigm shift in game design. To explain, he turns to a concept from psychology: mental modules. It’s a theory that suggests there are innate functional structures in the human brain dedicated to different processes.

“There are a lot of different ways of slicing the pie up,” Crawford says. “But five of the most important modules are motor module for musculature [think reflexes and dexterity], visual-spatial for navigation and recognising 3D worlds, cause and effect — our knowledge of realistic things. If you drop something, it falls down. If you put your finger in a fire it burns your finger. Those types of relationships. Those are the three types of modules that games most commonly challenge.”

Games rarely challenge the two modules that Crawford is aiming for with his interactive storytelling. These are language and social intelligence. He argues that the latter is what other forms of entertainment are based on. “You don’t jump around in your seat in the movies,” he says. “They don’t train visual-spatial — in the movies people don’t spend a lot of time navigating their way through mazes. They just say I’ll go there and the next shot is them there, not traversing it.”

Movies and games are different, of course. They have different strengths. Movies show you people making big, life-altering dramatic choices. Games let you make innocuous, inconsequential choices, interspersed from time to time with meaningful ones. Movies are driven by relationships; games are driven by you, the player.

siboot4.jpg


We as an industry tend to celebrate that about games. We revel in the little things and the freedoms that games give us. But Crawford wants a game where there is neither an open world to live and explore in nor a path laid out before you. He wants something that provides the narrative focus of a good novel or film coupled with the agency of a game, without any pre-authored story branches and with complex characters who interact with one another independently of you but who each have a definite role to play (like an antagonist or mentor).

I suggest that an MMO such as EVE Online might challenge your social intelligence and be filled with interactions that could each potentially be dramatically significant, but he waves it away as too unfocused. “There’s no such thing as a supporting character in a multiplayer game,” he says. “Everyone wants to be the protagonist. In interactive storytelling you create artificial characters who you deliberately establish as supporting characters, primary opponents, antagonists, and so forth.” Crawford wants an artificial agent — an algorithm — to be pulling the strings behind the scenes.

His second-in-command on Siboot, art lead Alvaro Gonzalez, explains that an MMO is akin to a social intelligence sandbox whereas Siboot is meant to be a forerunner to a “dramatic sandbox where the most important thing is to have control of the story, even though the player has total freedom on how that story develops.”

Gonzalez explains further with an example of how this model of interactive storytelling might be applied to role-playing games: “At the moment, a lot of RPGs don’t have meaningful quests,” he says. “Like *booming voice* ‘you have to kill 40 pigs to get 1000 tails to take it to’ — that’s not meaningful because the player doesn’t have to use any module to get that quest. It was easy. But if the player has to make meaningful decisions using this social intelligence while they approach these NPCs, then that quest is going to become very important and very meaningful, and that will breed dramatics.”

Essentially, if I understand him correctly, RPG quests would become meaningful because there’d be fewer of them, their goals would involve an intrinsic motivation on the player’s part, and they’d take a whole lot of talking, conversational probing, and emotional investment to get in the first place.


What it really comes down to is that, in Crawford’s vision of an interactive story, your every choice could change the course of the narrative. Branching paths aren’t written so much as generated, at every turn altering the story to optimise the dramatic punch lying ahead.


Siboot is meant to prove the concept and kickstart a revolution in game design. Seen at face value, it doesn’t seem so different. Its claims of complex characters and symbolic language (with 40 to 50 verbs and several degrees of nuance) aren’t perhaps as unique as Crawford makes out, and more cinematically-minded games are already starting to weave in more subtle facial animations that you have to consider as you make your decisions (although Crawford plans to go further by having the micro-expressions be algorithmically varied according to multiple inputs rather than hardcoded from motion capture).

In fairness, Crawford is quick to admit that Siboot is painfully constrained in terms of this grand vision of character-driven, algorithmically-defined, social intelligence-focused interactive storytelling. “I’m sure many people will look at that and once they understand how it works they’ll say, ‘I can do better,'” he reasons. “That’s the whole point and purpose of this project.”

Siboot is on Kickstarter right now. It doesn’t appear that it’ll reach its goal, but it will be finished and released regardless — to be followed some time later by open source code for both the game and its underlying engine, the StoryWorld Authoring Tool. “I’m no longer interested in the money or the fame,” Crawford says. “I’m not rich but I’ve got enough money to be comfortable, so I don’t see any need to commercialise this project. The Kickstarter is really to raise money for the team members; it’s not for me.”

Siboot, meanwhile, is really to inspire developers to tackle storytelling from a new angle, to give academics something to play with in their interactive storytelling research (he’s actually been asked to keynote the next International Conference on Interactive Digital Storytelling), and to prove that Crawford hasn’t been barking up the wrong tree all this time.

Then, he says, “I can retire with the sense that my life was not a waste.” And maybe someone else will finally slay that dragon, stopping for just a moment afterwards to pay respect to Crawford’s failed attempts.
 
Self-Ejected

Bubbles

I'm forever blowing
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
7,817
Anna's Quest has been released.

It's basically an easier, shorter, and more cheaply made version of Night of the Rabbit with less atmosphere and worse story telling. Took me about 4 hours, was bored after the first.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Self-Ejected

Bubbles

I'm forever blowing
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
7,817
Noticed this on the Anna's Quest store page:

FmQA0M7.png


And in the review:

The music, on the other hand, is wonderfully perfect for the game. It’s cute. It’s eerie. It’s fantastical. It’s surreal. It is perfect.


:philosoraptor:
 

Jools

Eater of Apples
Patron
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
10,769
Location
Mêlée Island
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Insert Title Here Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
Not sure if this has been shared before, but here it comes. It's oldish anyway, 2013 stuff.

tl;dr - Puzzles are out. Shooting is in.

http://killscreendaily.com/articles...ok-tim-schafer-dan-connors-ron-gilbert-weigh/

Some excerpts:

Tim Schafer (Monkey Island, Grim Fandango, Broken Age): It has to be point and click. To me it has to. I feel like it has to be solvable by someone who’s not dexterous. That was an unspoken contract. You can sit and think, without having to have good reflexes. You can scratch your chin. That’s the most important gesture. Your dad can play. I’m too stressed to play an online first-person shooter. I don’t think fast. I like to stand and think about a problem with secret layers of meaning and make connections that weren’t obvious. Like, “Whoa, I’m so smart.”

Dan Connors (CEO of Telltale Games, The Walking Dead): There’s so much ground to cover. We can build a world that people can get in and make choices as their favorite star or a historical figure. You can still have shooting. You can do that too.

My philosophy as a designer is if a player has to leave my game to enjoy it, then I’ve failed. But there’s no way to really avoid it. There’s no puzzle so easy that someone somewhere won’t get stuck on it. You can have a locked door and a glowing shining neon key right in the middle of the room and someone somewhere will miss it and get stuck!

PUZZLES AREN’T REALLY NEEDED ANYMORE. THEY BREAK THE FLOW. (bold and huge in original article)

We had these puzzles inPsychonauts and the first focus group said they didn’t know what to do with the paintings. They figured it out, but they didn’t know what to do at first. What’s the problem? We called that gameplay. But now it’s confusion.

And then we wonder why the genre is deader than dead. I wonder why don't these retard just move on to filmmaking then. Fuck you, newfag consoletard braindead generation(s).
 
Last edited:

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
Patron
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
28,580
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
Seems that they're announcing that Deponia is coming to iPads, rather than making a fourth game.
 

Sceptic

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
10,881
Divinity: Original Sin
And then we wonder why the genre is deader than dead. I wonder why don't these retard just move on to filmmaking then. Fuck you, newfag consoletard braindead generation(s).
Eh, it's not just the new generation. Remember J_C and his crusade for Broken Age's lack of puzzles (not to mention the fight I had with him over parser way back then). And if you haven't, go look at that thread about endgame puzzles, I think there were 2 or 3 people other than me who defended them, everyone else was complaining about how puzzles at the end of the game break the flow and are just a nuisance when you're trying to finally get to the ending.
 

mindx2

Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter
Patron
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
4,536
Location
Perusing his PC Museum shelves.
Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
And then we wonder why the genre is deader than dead. I wonder why don't these retard just move on to filmmaking then. Fuck you, newfag consoletard braindead generation(s).
Eh, it's not just the new generation. Remember J_C and his crusade for Broken Age's lack of puzzles (not to mention the fight I had with him over parser way back then). And if you haven't, go look at that thread about endgame puzzles, I think there were 2 or 3 people other than me who defended them, everyone else was complaining about how puzzles at the end of the game break the flow and are just a nuisance when you're trying to finally get to the ending.

Really?! We are talking adventure games right.... right? They can't really think this way... can they? :negative:
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom