The PS5 and Xbox 2 thread - it's happening

[soulburner]

Well, I suspected the PS5 and Scarlett will have a newer revision of the RDNA architecture from the very beginning. From planning to manufacturing - it takes a bit of time. PC users got RDNA 1.0 in the form of the 5700 cards, the consoles might have something like RDNA 1.0b or RDNA 1.1 - even if their dev kits are already available for a while, they could be slightly more advanced than what was already released for the PC.

It is unclear how ray tracing will be implemented. Will it be in the form of additional transistors specialized in that form of calculations, like in Nvidia's RTX cards, or will it be just overgrown shaders, being capable of only something similar to what Crytek showed in their demo, which did not use RTX cores and ran more or less fine on Vega. So for ray traced reflections here and there, and maybe a nice light bouncing off of surfaces in some areas - that's possible without "RT" cores.

Releases such as Quake 2 RTX, which use "full" ray tracing, not just for a few reflections, show that this process is very computationally expensive. Quake 2 is simple, there aren't many polygons out there. I imagine nobody is even teasing something more modern, because it runs like shit. I suspect somebody, somewhere began experimenting with the Doom 3 source code to implement full ray tracing and pretty much left it for later, better times, because no graphic card can handle it today.

 

[Makabb]

God of programming John Carmack himself descended to finaly put rest to the console and pc conondrum

'For the same given paper spec, a console will deliver twice the perf of a PC, and a PC will deliver twice the perf of a mobile part'

So if PS 5 will have a 3.2 ghz Zen 2 and a RTX 2080 performance and 16gb ram, you will need double the PC specs, that would be a over 6ghz CPU that does not exist a 30 Tflop vidya card and 32gb ram..... that's why I've been saying that PC will be choking on PS5 ports.


https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/436012673243693056

 

[taxalot]

God of programming John Carmack himself descended to finaly put rest to the console and pc conondrum

'For the same given paper spec, a console will deliver twice the perf of a PC, and a PC will deliver twice the perf of a mobile part'

So if PS 5 will have a 3.2 ghz Zen 2 and a RTX 2080 performance and 16gb ram, you will need double the PC specs, that would be a over 6ghz CPU that does not exist a 30 Tflop vidya card and 32gb ram..... that's why I've been saying that PC will be choking on PS5 ports.


https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/436012673243693056

John Carmack has been irrelevant for years. And his last performance on the Joe Rogan show was a strong argument of why he should stay clear of gaming companies.

Current consoles have weak CPU. Check CPU usage while playing your favorite game : it's a fraction of it. While consoles benefit optimizations, they are currently far less than what they used to be.

 

[Makabb]

John Carmack has been irrelevant for years

nice cope

 

[soulburner]

God of programming John Carmack himself descended to finaly put rest to the console and pc conondrum

'For the same given paper spec, a console will deliver twice the perf of a PC, and a PC will deliver twice the perf of a mobile part'

So if PS 5 will have a 3.2 ghz Zen 2 and a RTX 2080 performance and 16gb ram, you will need double the PC specs, that would be a over 6ghz CPU that does not exist a 30 Tflop vidya card and 32gb ram..... that's why I've been saying that PC will be choking on PS5 ports.


https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/436012673243693056

This Carmack's post is from 2014, no matter if John himself is still relevant or not, this quote isn't. 2014 was way before both Vulkan/DX12 released and AMD Mantle was in its infancy. All of these APIs main goal was to reduce driver overhead and be a little closer to the metal. With DX12 and Vulkan available today the gap between consoles and PC is a lot, lot smaller than in 2014. Additionally, in 2014 we barely had PC games that could utilize more than 2 cores - more recent games on the PC have much better multithread optimization, often performing best with a 6+ threaded CPU, while still using DX11 as their rendering path.

 

[Makabb]

There's still Windows that has a ton of abstraction for backwards compatibility and background tasks, and we know how the story is with vulkan and dx12 currently........most games still use dx 11

 

[soulburner]

There's still Windows that has a ton of abstraction for backwards compatibility and background tasks, and we know how the story is with vulkan and dx12 currently........most games still use dx 11

Yes, but DX11 games are different to DX11 games of 2014 because programmers learned to properly multithread, even with with all the API limits in that regard.
The abstraction layers in Windows that are used for backwards compatibility have no detrimental effect on programs that do not use legacy code. Same with background tasks - you will not get better performance out of games if you disable half of the system services (unless you are extremely low on memory and every byte counts).

 

[Morgoth]

I will be seriously pissed if DX12/Vulkan isn't finally becoming the standard API for Next-Gen gaming.

 

[vortex]

I will be seriously pissed if DX12/Vulkan isn't finally becoming the standard API for Next-Gen gaming.

But how many people would need to upgrade because of that? I don't think this will happen.

 

[Morgoth]

I will be seriously pissed if DX12/Vulkan isn't finally becoming the standard API for Next-Gen gaming.

But how many people would need to upgrade because of that? I don't think this will happen.

Oh please, you have video cards back from 2013/2014 that already support DX12, yet we're still running with this ancient API with ancient engines, using brute force instead of getting more out of the available silicon. This laziness won't fly again next time with me.

 

[unfairlight]

But how many people would need to upgrade because of that? I don't think this will happen.

Not very many. 71% of Steam users have a DX12 compatible GPU and Windows 10. 20% have a DX12 compatible GPU and pre-Windows 10, although that number is decreasing bit by bit each month as people move over to Windows 10. I imagine the rest barely play anything recent.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

 

[BlackAdderBG]

XBOX is DX12 and PS5 is Vulcan so it's coming no matter how much nvidia don't want it.

 

[Morgoth]

XBOX is DX12 and PS5 is Vulcan so it's coming no matter how much nvidia don't want it.

Xbox One is DX12 and yet we still haven't gotten it in most mainstream games.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

XBOX is DX12 and PS5 is Vulcan so it's coming no matter how much nvidia don't want it.

Xbox One is DX12 and yet we still haven't gotten it in most mainstream games.

All new Microsoft games run very well and use dx12- both Forza games and Gears 5 are good examples of what to expect from the new generation. Ofc nvidia will try to stay Dx11 as long as possible or until their new architecture is ready.

 

[Morgoth]

Turing is a full DX12 architecture. Pretty similar to RDNA, actually. Both µarch's have converged at this point due to developer wishes. I'm expecting to get more performance out of it in future engines, because I'm done with paying up due to shitty optimizations.

 

[vortex]

But how many people would need to upgrade because of that? I don't think this will happen.

Not very many. 71% of Steam users have a DX12 compatible GPU and Windows 10. 20% have a DX12 compatible GPU and pre-Windows 10, although that number is decreasing bit by bit each month as people move over to Windows 10. I imagine the rest barely play anything recent.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

Just take 10-20% off from that list. Anything below 1050-1050ti can't enjoy next-gen goodies.

 

[Morgoth]

Disco Elysium is Next-Next-Gen and runs below that!

 

[flyingjohn]

But how many people would need to upgrade because of that? I don't think this will happen.

Not very many. 71% of Steam users have a DX12 compatible GPU and Windows 10. 20% have a DX12 compatible GPU and pre-Windows 10, although that number is decreasing bit by bit each month as people move over to Windows 10. I imagine the rest barely play anything recent.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

Just take 10-20% off from that list. Anything below 1050-1050ti can't enjoy next-gen goodies.

Disabling next gen goodies gives you better graphics and performance so no loss there.

 

[Morgoth]

^This is actually true in most UE4 based games.

 

[soulburner]

There is absolutely no reason why developers would keep making DX11 renderers instead of DX12 or Vulkan. Pretty much every graphic card out there supports DX12 and Vulkan - and the ones that don't, aren't capable of running modern DX11 games anyway. So DX12 supported only on Windows 10 might be given by some as a reason why it hasn't been adopted yet, but there's Vulkan - and it is supported on pretty much everything, including Windows 7, Linux and mobile devices.

Rendering engine programmers are lazy or underpaid.

 

[Makabb]

I'm a third party small developer from EU,for the last 8 months i've been helping a well known company in a AAA game development that is set to release in 2020 as a lunch game for PS5.

Some infos that i'd like to share that are 99% correct(i say 99% because small incremental hardware change can occur till 2020,although specs are set in stone).

-PS5 official info from Sony somewhere around next E3(Sony will not be participating on E3),i'd say Q2 2019 small reveal
-PS5 release March 2020 or November 2020,not yet finalized
-backward compatible
-physical games & ps store
-ps plus & ps plus premium ( premium-beta early access,create private servers,
-specs CPU 7nm ryzen 8 core 16 threads,unknown speed
GPU 7nm Navi arhitecture around 14TF,its gonna be powerful and power efficient,Sony working with Amd for Navi,some sort of Ray Tracing but will not focus on that,more focus with VR and 4k,much better bandwith overall
24GB Gddr6 + 4gb ddr4 for os,we have 32 gb dev kits
-2tb hdd some sort of nand flash
-8k upscaling
-PSVR2 in 2020 also,reveal with ps5,big resolution boost probably 2560x1440,120hz,220 field of view,eye tracking,wireless,battery life 4-5 hours,headphones integrated,less motion sickenss,no breaker box,much less cable management,much more focus on VR for aaa games,price around 250$
-dualshock 5,some sort of camera inside for VR,more analog precision for fps games,something similiar to steam analog trackpad
-price 499$,100$ loss per console at a beginning

Ps4 exclusive launch games that i know of

Gran Turismo 7 (vr)
Pubg remaster 4k f2p with ps+ only on ps5
Last of us 2 remaster
Ghost of Tsushima remaster
2-3 aaa games more + psvr2 games

Non exclusive ps5 games 2020

Battlefield bad company 3
Harry potter
Gta 6 Holiday 2020 most probably,not hearing anything ps4 related (hearing that Sony is paying huge money to secure 1 month time exclusive for ps5). Been hearing rumors about Miami and New York,so 2 big cities,but im not sure if thats 100% true
Assassins creed
Horizon 2 so far in 2021

https://pastebin.com/PY9vaTsR

 

[abija]

Why not even a ballpark for CPU speed?

 

[unfairlight]

24GB Gddr6 + 4gb ddr4

Yeah, nah, that's bullshit. Absolute most I am willing to believe is 16gb GDDR6 as shared pool for VRAM, DRAM and with 4 gigs of that allocated for system. Even that's really expensive.

 

[vonAchdorf]

The joke is that it is going to be for sale only in developing countries.

Like rural France and Germany?

 

[taxalot]

That's a bullshit pastebin. We already know that Sony is targeting an end of 2020 PS5 release.

Source : Sony.