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The Outer Worlds: Spacer's Choice Edition - Obsidian's first-person sci-fi RPG set in a corporate space colony

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Your encounter with this guy is the closest The Outer Worlds gets to a hard-hitting anti-capitalist critique: https://theouterworlds.fandom.com/wiki/Martin_Callahan

He could have been a bit character in Disco Elysium.

The rest, as Delterius says, is really a (not particularly deep) story about opposing sclerosis, mismanagement and austerity with an "lol early 20th century corporations!" skin.

But yeah, I'm sure some of the wokelings on the game's development team believed they were sticking it to the man anyway.
 

Grunker

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You only say this because you grew up in the dark days of this being the accepted paradigm. From wasn't a fluke, it was just a new paradigm.

The ironic thing is that it makes Outer Worlds feel outdated. It's from an era where blandness and shallow system design was praised. Outer Worlds isn't "for the masses", it's for the Fallout 3 crowd. The kids who themselves are today what we were back when Fallout 3 was released.

Is it? The biggest western RPGs from the last five years (i.e. sold at least a few million): Kingdom Come Deliverance (no planning period)

If there ever was a ROGUEY MOMENT(tm) it's using twisting the facts so much to fit your argument that Kingdom Come: Deliverance becomes an example of a game marketed for accessibility :lol:
 

cvv

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
The rest, as Delterius says, is really a (not particularly deep) story about mismanagement
Yes but not just any old mismanagement, I thought the meta message was p. clearly something like:

"This is what happens if you give corporations free reign, with no government oversight, this is unbridled capitalism for you - the end state is a huge, incompetent, sclerotic bureaucracy running everything, there's gross mismanagement and everything is falling apart."

THAT'S WHY I, as someone who grew up in a soshulist country, facepalmed so hard over this - the Kwan wokelings and Dunning-Kruger libtards on the team don't realize they're describing vividly and faithfully THE EXACT OPPOSITE - a society run by an omnipresent and all-powerful government, i.e. the Eastern Bloc of days past. They have no idea because they're clueless Americans and the only thing they know is bitching about corporaishuns, with zero understanding of what happens if you give free reign to the government.

TLDR - this so called "corporate dystopia" made by Obsidian is completely retarded, clownish and totally implausible but as a description of a futuristic socialist society is feels p. accurate.
 

Wesp5

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The rest, as Delterius says, is really a (not particularly deep) story about mismanagement
Yes but not just any old mismanagement, I thought the meta message was p. clearly something like:

"This is what happens if you give corporations free reign, with no government oversight, this is unbridled capitalism for you - the end state is a huge, incompetent, sclerotic bureaucracy running everything, there's gross mismanagement and everything is falling apart."
Don't forget that the very large majority of the incompetent corporate people in TOW are male as well, but they probably are in real life too ;)...
 

Yosharian

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Incompetence in corporate spheres is hardly limited to men, women are perfectly capable of being idiots. It's just that they're behind the curve because it's only recently that women were foolish enough to actually try to be CEOs, a job that's only fit for psychopaths or workaholics
 

Hellraiser

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The rest, as Delterius says, is really a (not particularly deep) story about mismanagement
Yes but not just any old mismanagement, I thought the meta message was p. clearly something like:

"This is what happens if you give corporations free reign, with no government oversight, this is unbridled capitalism for you - the end state is a huge, incompetent, sclerotic bureaucracy running everything, there's gross mismanagement and everything is falling apart."

THAT'S WHY I, as someone who grew up in a soshulist country, facepalmed so hard over this - the Kwan wokelings and Dunning-Kruger libtards on the team don't realize they're describing vividly and faithfully THE EXACT OPPOSITE - a society run by an omnipresent and all-powerful government, i.e. the Eastern Bloc of days past. They have no idea because they're clueless Americans and the only thing they know is bitching about corporaishuns, with zero understanding of what happens if you give free reign to the government.

TLDR - this so called "corporate dystopia" made by Obsidian is completely retarded, clownish and totally implausible but as a description of a futuristic socialist society is feels p. accurate.
To be fair, but not to excuse Obsidian's lackluster and inept writing/worldbuilding in TOW, there's a lot of overlap between a soviet style political system (let's just call it gommunism) and the inner workings of a large corporation.

Corporations are command economies. While budgets are often departmental implying some freedumb, those get consolidated into higher and higher levels until in the end the HQ approves a global budget within looser or tighter criteria depending on how centralized and thus micromanaging the corporation is. So you get similar squabbles over resources as for instance the regional committee of the potato gommunist party trying to get the central committee to fund their vanity project. What's different is that due to shareholder/owner pressure there's in theory more scrutiny and control resulting in better efficiency as far as financial results are concerned (at least until someones find the gaps allowing to go full Enron). Speaking of which who the fuck really owns the corporations in TOW and reaps all the profit, is it a headquarters outside of the system with which they lost contact just like with the rest of humanity? Is that even addressed in the game?

Most importantly however internal politics in them are not that dissimilar in how they function from what gommies did, there's a reason why one of the (business) organization as metaphor examples is the political one, department heads and vice presidents butt-heads with their counterparts, lobby upper management to replace key positions or restructure the hierarchy altogether, grab more responsibility (fiefdoms) from each other etc. Man, I worked for a few multinationals and I saw it all by this point. Although they're certainly less bloody since usually the losers are just told to pack up and no longer appear in the office even if they have 3 months notice (a bit of trivia: unless they're japanese, then they create some shamefur special positions with no power or otherwise humiliating that are de facto demotions, since those guys have a cultural taboo on firing people from what I heard).
 
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Roguey

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If there ever was a ROGUEY MOMENT(tm) it's using twisting the facts so much to fit your argument that Kingdom Come: Deliverance becomes an example of a game marketed for accessibility :lol:

I didn't say it was marketed for accessibility, I just listed the most popular wrpgs. If any of the games fit your criteria, I would have acknowledged them as exceptions. KCD has its hardcore features, but its character system isn't one of them. It is not a spreadsheet game.

Yes but not just any old mismanagement, I thought the meta message was p. clearly something like:

"This is what happens if you give corporations free reign, with no government oversight, this is unbridled capitalism for you - the end state is a huge, incompetent, sclerotic bureaucracy running everything, there's gross mismanagement and everything is falling apart."

THAT'S WHY I, as someone who grew up in a soshulist country, facepalmed so hard over this - the Kwan wokelings and Dunning-Kruger libtards on the team don't realize they're describing vividly and faithfully THE EXACT OPPOSITE - a society run by an omnipresent and all-powerful government, i.e. the Eastern Bloc of days past. They have no idea because they're clueless Americans and the only thing they know is bitching about corporaishuns, with zero understanding of what happens if you give free reign to the government.

TLDR - this so called "corporate dystopia" made by Obsidian is completely retarded, clownish and totally implausible but as a description of a futuristic socialist society is feels p. accurate.
You're projecting if you think TOW is suggesting government should be given full control.

Don't forget that the very large majority of the incompetent corporate people in TOW are male as well, but they probably are in real life too ;)...

I've seen people accuse TOW of misandry, but I don't see it. Hippie Grandma from Edgewater is evil. The Sublight leader's conclusions about one particular conspiracy made me laugh out loud. Sanjar is goofy, and his assistant Celia is equally goofy. Huxley is genuinely retarded.
 

cvv

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
there's a lot of overlap between a soviet style political system (let's just call it gommunism) and the inner workings of a large corporation
Sure, it's easy to imagine a society run by a single corporation would look similar to a society run by a single Party.

Problem is I really don't think that's what Obsidian was trying to say with TOW, let alone doing something even more thoughtful like trying to sketch out possible differences. That'd be way outside the intellectual scope of all the Patels and Dollarhydes on the Obsidian team.

We're lucky we didn't get "Fuck patriarchy" and "Lel Drumpf" every 20 minutes. Although TOW 2 is coming, maybe this time around we'll get the full load of Bay Area into our faces.
 

Grunker

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If there ever was a ROGUEY MOMENT(tm) it's using twisting the facts so much to fit your argument that Kingdom Come: Deliverance becomes an example of a game marketed for accessibility :lol:

I didn't say it was marketed for accessibility, I just listed the most popular wrpgs.

So on the one hand, your argument is that Outer Worlds' bland design is that it had to be marketed for accessibility

OTOH, you list the most obtuse, inaccessible RT-RPG of the last 20 years as an example of the most popular wRPGs

:scratcheshead:
 

Hellraiser

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Problem is I really don't think that's what Obsidian was trying to say with TOW, let alone doing something even more thoughtful like trying to sketch out possible differences.

Oh I fully agree, they were probably aiming for futurama/rick and morty inspired absurdity but just fell flat. As far as "silly" RPG titles go, InXile's Wastelands and the baguette-developed Dungeons of Nahelbuek did the silliness better and in a more memorable way.
 
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cvv

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.

OTOH, you list the most obtuse, inaccessible RT-RPG of the last 20 years as an example of the most popular wRPGs
Kingdom Come obtuse and inaccessible? Game that sold a million copies in the first week? That sold 5 million until last year, probably 6 million by now? That has 85k ratings on Steam with a Very Good overall mark? A game that is p. much a Witcher-like interactive movie walking/riding simulator on the Standard difficulty?

That one is the most obtuse and inaccessible wRPG in the last 20 years?
 

Roguey

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So on the one hand, your argument is that Outer Worlds' bland design is that it had to be marketed for accessibility

OTOH, you list the most obtuse, inaccessible RT-RPG of the last 20 years as an example of the most popular wRPGs

:scratcheshead:
I'm with cvv on this one. It's a bit more hardcore than Red Dead Redemption 2, I suppose?

The Outer Worlds also has comparable hardcore features, but they filed them all away in Supernova difficulty. :M
 

Grunker

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OTOH, you list the most obtuse, inaccessible RT-RPG of the last 20 years as an example of the most popular wRPGs
Kingdom Come obtuse and inaccessible? Game that sold a million copies in the first week? That sold 5 million until last year, probably 6 million by now? That has 85k ratings on Steam with a Very Good overall mark? A game that is p. much a Witcher-like interactive movie walking/riding simulator on the Standard difficulty?

That one is the most obtuse and inaccessible wRPG in the last 20 years?

Yes, that is my entire point. In the post-From paradigm, inaccessibility and "obtuse" features such as no quest compass and requiring independent player thought does not automatically equal low sales and getting slammed by reviewers. You are literally just restating the very case I'm making to Roguey.

EDIT: Unless your point is that KC:D might as well be Oblivion in terms of accessibility? Then I don't really know how to argue the point, we're talking two different languages.

So on the one hand, your argument is that Outer Worlds' bland design is that it had to be marketed for accessibility

OTOH, you list the most obtuse, inaccessible RT-RPG of the last 20 years as an example of the most popular wRPGs

:scratcheshead:
I'm with cvv on this one

Then you are contradicting yourself... again
 

Silverfish

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So on the one hand, your argument is that Outer Worlds' bland design is that it had to be marketed for accessibility

OTOH, you list the most obtuse, inaccessible RT-RPG of the last 20 years as an example of the most popular wRPGs

Yeah, it's the difference between being popular and trying to be popular.
 

Roguey

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Then you are contradicting yourself... again
This pertains to "A game that is p. much a Witcher-like interactive movie walking/riding simulator on the Standard difficulty?" which I thought I made clear by comparing it to RDR2.
 

KVVRR

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Is that even addressed in the game?
I think it is supposed to be the (local) board. But I'm not sure, I don't remember them elaborating on Earth at all besides that reveal and they never mention a higher position than the board itself afaik. Really wish they made less jokes and expanded at least a bit on the game's worldbuilding.
 

Vyvian

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I'm actually enjoying the game since returning to it.
It has a real low key relaxing vibe, even in combat which is nice.
A few conversations got a chuckle out of me, the Sublight conspiracy nut was one.
 

Roguey

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Time for a collection of thoughts.

I like the main title theme, but overall the music is way too serious and feels tonally inappropriate. Justin Bell should have used Brazil's soundtrack as inspiration. Instead we have Skyrim-serious music in a silly world.

Tim Cain said:
We had a lot of discussions even before the base game shipped, that especially among consumables, we had too much loot to track.

Damn right you did. There's too much loot in this game. I think it's funny how Cain fought so hard to preserve ammunition from getting cut, when the compromise he came to resulted in it being practically-unlimited anyway. Never had to think about ammunition once. Once I felt I had enough to coast through the remainder of the game, I stopped picking up a lot of crap to reduce the loot fatigue, but I'm sure a lot of people are incapable of that self-restraint and just make the game worse for themselves.

I praised Megan Starks too quickly without firsthand experience. Boyarsky did in fact fail to rein in her extremely-feminine writing style much like Sawyer and MacLean before him. I could tell that Monarch was her area immediately, it was so grating. And of course her area was the one with the cliched cannibal family (I assume Cain reluctantly agreed to this with the stipulation that there be no cannibal quests in future Outer Worlds games).

I was amused by two quests in Byzantium that were pure padding when it came to content, but the narrative pay-offs for both made them worth it. And while I loved Hortense like I thought I would, her quest was so disappointingly predictable. I really wish they had included a high-intelligence "You know, with the state of things around here, they're probably just killing them, right?" dialogue option. Make me do the quest anyway (with a follow-up "Told ya so"), but don't insult the intelligence of my high-int character.

It was pretty swell how I was able to complete the final areas of the game without killing a single person. Cain/Boyarsky redeeming themselves for Bloodlines's end game.

And like I mentioned earlier, the idea that this is some woke anti-capitalist game is overblown. They have the writer's pet ask you not to cut power to the corporate town, and doing so results in the most happy ending possible (otoh if you're a violent anarchist you won't mind the deaths of all those bootlickers). The leader of the Groundbreaker, who inherited a family business thanks to a really good contract, has brought that all to an end thanks to being a childless lesbian, and that entire place would fall apart if not for your intervention. When Parvarti told me about the cringe poem said person sent her, I told her to stick to her job, and that ended the quest right there, so I never had to experience any obnoxious speech about lesbian asexuality or waste time buying a dress. The most anti-corp guy in the crew is a dummy with no self-control who doesn't actually read any of his commie literature (I loved that detail). With the final conflict, I could understand the Board's criticisms of Phineas's plan, as well as Phineas's criticisms of the Board's plan (ultimately went with him because I didn't trust in the Board's ability to solve the problem). And of course the anti-corp solution to the problem requires trusting in the abilities of Exceptional High IQ people which is against the "everyone is equal and thus fungible" ethos of commies and modern-libs.

Overall, I liked it, but that's not too surprising. I enjoy playing sneak'n'speak shooters regardless of their flaws (Deus Ex, Bloodlines, Alpha Protocol, New Vegas, Human Revolution) as long as there's not something about them that puts me off from ever trying them out in the first place (Invisible War, Fallout 3, Mankind Divided, Fallout 4).
 

Krivol

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I enjoy playing sneak'n'speak shooters regardless of their flaws (Deus Ex, Bloodlines, Alpha Protocol, New Vegas, Human Revolution) as long as there's not something about them that puts me off from ever trying them out in the first place (Invisible War, Fallout 3, Mankind Divided, Fallout 4).
Wow, exactly just like me! But I hate OW like crabs in my pants...
 

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