Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[DalekFlay]

Which one is best for a new player of the series? I have the 1-6 collection.

 

[Jaesun]

Start with 2 and play them to 7.

 

[Sceptic]

Which one is best for a new player of the series? I have the 1-6 collection.

Start with 1 of course
It's a very tough game, but it's worth it. The sense of exploration is much better than in 2, and while combat is unbalanced early on it's not the slashfest that the 2 is.

I don't think I'm going to try to understand what's actually going on here.

Some of the story details will never make sense (that's one of them), but overall there is an overarching plot and if you explore thoroughly you'll get quite a bit of information about it.

Still debating dropping the robber and taking a ninja, it'd allow me to drop one of my other melee bros and take an archer too.

Eh, if you're happy with the current setup, just keep going.

is ageing really a problem?

There's two types of ageing: artificial and natural. Artifical can be very easily overcome (in all of 1-5), in 3 there's an optional quest later on that'll give you the ability to remove it. Natural ageing is a much bigger problem, as there is NO way to reverse it. The game can be easily completed in less than 5 years on a first run, at the absolute most 10 if you take your very sweet time. HOWEVER (you knew there was however, right?) there are several tricky spots in the late game that will increase your NATURAL age permanently; they CAN be avoided (and they should be), but if you fall into the traps you're in big trouble age-wise. But, in terms of spellcasting, it's always (IIRC) artificial age, so you're fine since you can reverse it all later on.

Also, is there any way to tell how much damage I'm actually doing?

Exact numbers, no. However the size of the blood splatter indicates whether you're doing a bit or a lot of damage. You may also have noticed the color of the monster names changes - that reflects how much health they still have. There are a lot of small visual clues like this in the UI if you look for them.

 

[commie]

Have you printed out the map?

Having the map for a M&M game on the desk while you play is 50% of the experience.

Yeah, those were the days: I have the M&M collection from 10 years ago or so with 1-7 and all the maps laid out when I played. Great times. My fondness for maps came from all these old RPG's what with identifying an interesting location on the map, then giddy with anticipation going there in game, feeling like a real explorer(often maps weren't exact), wondering what I'd find. Sigh, you just don't get that with Bioware games or ones that only have an automap which just shows where you've been. Closest thing are the maps(some incomplete) you find in Gothic.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Eh, if you're happy with the current setup, just keep going.

They seem to be doing alright so far, think I'll stick with them. Might mix it up a bit when I get to WoX and have a better grasp on how everyone performs and develops.

There's two types of ageing: artificial and natural. Artifical can be very easily overcome (in all of 1-5), in 3 there's an optional quest later on that'll give you the ability to remove it. Natural ageing is a much bigger problem, as there is NO way to reverse it. The game can be easily completed in less than 5 years on a first run, at the absolute most 10 if you take your very sweet time. HOWEVER (you knew there was however, right?) there are several tricky spots in the late game that will increase your NATURAL age permanently; they CAN be avoided (and they should be), but if you fall into the traps you're in big trouble age-wise. But, in terms of spellcasting, it's always (IIRC) artificial age, so you're fine since you can reverse it all later on.

Thanks Fucking Phantom under seadog town just aged my Knight by like ten years.

Exact numbers, no. However the size of the blood splatter indicates whether you're doing a bit or a lot of damage. You may also have noticed the color of the monster names changes - that reflects how much health they still have. There are a lot of small visual clues like this in the UI if you look for them.

Ah, awesome. I picked up on the name colour thing, but didn't notice the size of the blood spatter. Combined with the way you don't get information on how much damage each weapon/material does, it makes it a bit much of a guessing game for my tastes, but the ZOG download came with the cluebooks so what the hell.

Damn addictive game so far, I'll say that. Just stumbled across the Ancient Temple of Moo, made a quick tour of some wells/fountains and came back to clear it out, now selling on my spoils and preparing to venture... er... downwards to see what happens. The sheer ridiculous power of fountains/blessings etc is a bit overwhelming, I think one of them temporarily boosted my level by about 20. Not sure how much I actually like this - to some extent, it seems to take the focus away from character development and equipment and put it squarely on combing the land to find buffs - but I'm an exploration whore, so I'm pretty content so far. Is it worth going to the castles yet? They seem a bit above my level at this point.

Also, do sorcerers remain as ridiculously powerful? I think mine is doing more damage than all of my melee bros put together.

 

[Jasede]

What amazes me about the (early part of the) MM series is how good the games look and function compared to others at the time. Compare MM3 to Wizardry 6, which were released around the same time. MM3 is still amazingly good looking even today, even the animations and such are basic but look great. You have a diverse world to explore in MM3, while everything looks exactly the same in Wiz6, with CGA graphics. Even the interface of MM3 is vastly superior to Wiz6 and still holds up today. Hell, even compare MM2 to Wiz5, both of which came out in 1988. Wiz5 is still rocking the wireframe dungeons, while MM2 was already in full color.

Having said that, Wiz7 is easily superior to MM6+. MM3-5 look so much better than the later games in the series, it's funny. I can't really stomach early 3D anymore, and MM6-8 really look horrendous.

I really honestly cannot into MM3's interface. Wiz 6 any day!

 

[Darth Roxor]

Combined with the way you don't get information on how much damage each weapon/material does

Go to a shop -> identify item. Later on, you will pretty much learn the progression of materials/weapons, though, but identifying is dirt-cheap anyway, if you feel the need to compare stuff.

Just stumbled across the Ancient Temple of Moo

I loved those evil ancient temples in M&M. Moo, Yak, Bark, Baa and probably some others in the parts I didn't play. They don't make 'em like these anymore

 

[Jaesun]

I really honestly cannot into MM3's interface. Wiz 6 any day!

 

[made]

I really honestly cannot into MM3's interface.

Beats Fallout 3 interface.

 

[Jasede]

Step backwards from MM1 & 2, IMO.

Edit: Not sure what's wrong with the FO3 interface, honest to god. The only thing that bothers me is the lack of dialogue/dialogue options that can be displayed at once. That's just lame.

 

[Sceptic]

They seem to be doing alright so far, think I'll stick with them. Might mix it up a bit when I get to WoX and have a better grasp on how everyone performs and develops.

WOX changed the magic system, and the starting party is slightly different (Ranger instead of Barbarian) so you'll be dealing with different considerations.

Thanks Fucking Phantom under seadog town just aged my Knight by like ten years.

That'll be artificial ageing (check if the age number has turned grey). Nothing to worry about, it'll get removed eventually.

Ah, awesome. I picked up on the name colour thing, but didn't notice the size of the blood spatter. Combined with the way you don't get information on how much damage each weapon/material does, it makes it a bit much of a guessing game for my tastes, but the ZOG download came with the cluebooks so what the hell.

As Roxor said you can identify stuff, and eventually you get an idea of modifiers and base values. Otherwise just check them in the cluebook (but no peaking at the walkthrough!)

The sheer ridiculous power of fountains/blessings etc is a bit overwhelming,

It is, and the game is somehow balanced so that you NEED the fountains for some of the tougher mid-game dungeons (depending on which order you do them). Don't worry, it won't take much away from char development - you'll still want to be level 100 and boost all your stats as much as possible

Is it worth going to the castles yet? They seem a bit above my level at this point.

If you feel like it, go there. You probably won't be able to finish any castle, but that doesn't mean you can't go for a visit.

Also, do sorcerers remain as ridiculously powerful?

No, they don't remind as ridiculously powerful.

Just wait 'til you get Implosion

 

[Zomg]

The fountains and the buffs and ruby+ weapons make melee much nastier, although I don't know at what level it's scaled so high that it outdoes the high powered nukes that do fixed damage. I know the melee is way stronger than magic at some point in Darkside of Xeen.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Oh yeah, BTW, in case you didn't know, there's also a way to get info about encountered monsters: their current HP, AC, special attacks and immunities. It's a spell just called 'identify monster'. Yeah, I know, it sounds obvious as fuck, but I completely forgot about using it until something like end-game...

 

[DalekFlay]

Step backwards from MM1 & 2, IMO.

Edit: Not sure what's wrong with the FO3 interface, honest to god. The only thing that bothers me is the lack of dialogue/dialogue options that can be displayed at once. That's just lame.

The MTUI mod fixes that.

It's a statement toward Fallout 3's relatively good interface that instead of an overhaul mod like Oblivion we just got some tweaks.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Why is this game so addictive? I want to go outside.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Why is this game so addictive? I want to go outside.

This is actually a very good question. I mean, the combat is boring, character building is practically non-existent, difficulty also isn't that high, but goddamn... GOTTA EXPLORE ANOTHER DUNGEON @_@

I suspect it's because of the general scope and variety of the world. Not to mention the p. cool puzzles and dungeon design... and overall nerdy atmosphere

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

I want to go outside.

No problem, just make sure you have mountaineer and pathfinder.

 

[Sceptic]

Why is this game so addictive? I want to go outside.

To expand on LV: 2-3 chars with pathfinding and mountaineering (can't remember if it was 2 or 3), all chars with swimming, and you're set. Walk On Water helps, but not necessary until you explore the (large) starting island.

I suspect it's because of the general scope and variety of the world. Not to mention the p. cool puzzles and dungeon design...

Mostly the world and dungeon design I think. They're just extremely well done. And the simplicity of the combat actually helps: it's not a constant slog or a constant fight for your life, so you don't feel like you need to take a break.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Why is this game so addictive? I want to go outside.

To expand on LV: 2-3 chars with pathfinding and mountaineering (can't remember if it was 2 or 3), all chars with swimming, and you're set. Walk On Water helps, but not necessary until you explore the (large) starting island.

...

I... don't quite think you understood this post, and it's absolutely hilarious in this context

 

[Nael]

It's tough to choose...

MM3 for nostalgic reasons.
WOX for both nostalgia and overall quality of the game.
And of course MM7 for Arcomage alone.

 

[DaveO]

MM6 has the largest dungeons of the series if that's up your alley, but be aware that enemy population is very significant since you will run into a LOT of encounters.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Why is this game so addictive? I want to go outside.

To expand on LV: 2-3 chars with pathfinding and mountaineering (can't remember if it was 2 or 3), all chars with swimming, and you're set. Walk On Water helps, but not necessary until you explore the (large) starting island.

Well, being in a fairly forested area, I've had pathfinding for a while, and I already have swimming. I don't quite have mountaineering down, but I'm working on increasing my might and endurance to make a better attempt at it in future, as a couple of my friends have trained in it already. Think I'll pass on walk on water at the moment.

Also, any particularly good areas to get gems? I'm just kind of picking them up as I go along.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Think I'll pass on walk on water at the moment.

That's what Jesus said, at first...

 

[Sceptic]

Well, being in a fairly forested area, I've had pathfinding for a while, and I already have swimming. I don't quite have mountaineering down, but I'm working on increasing my might and endurance to make a better attempt at it in future, as a couple of my friends have trained in it already. Think I'll pass on walk on water at the moment.

The problem with pathfinding is that if you're the only one who has it you won't be able to go through, unless you either solo or one of your friends also has it. For mountaineering just go with these 2 friends and you'll be fine (even if they're hirelings, it'll still work, but you'll have to pay them every morning at 5am). Walk on Water should be easy, you ARE in a forested area so just find a ranger in the woods and ask him to come along and cast it.

 

[Nael]

MM6 has the largest dungeons of the series if that's up your alley, but be aware that enemy population is very significant since you will run into a LOT of encounters.

Really? "A LOT of encounters?" MM6 was like one endless, mind numbing encounter with a 4 billion headed dick monster.