Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Mastermind]

I think 7's story is tied to some of the earlier ones (which I never played), but it's perfectly comprehensible on its own. You're not missing anything so go for it.

 

[Sceptic]

Does it matter if I play MMVII before playing VI? Does the storyline continue from VI to VII?

No and yes respectively. However, there really is no reason not to finish 6.

I might've posted this elsewhere, but in case I haven't here the recommended order of playing through the series:

Might and Magic I: Secret of the Inner Sanctum
Might and Magic II: Gates to Another World
Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra
Might and Magic IV-V: World of Xeen (finish Cloudside before Darkside)
Heroes Chronicles: Warlord of the Wasteland
Heroes Chronicles: Conquest of the Underworld
Heroes Chronicles: Revolt of the Beastmasters
Heroes Chronicles: Master of the Elements
Heroes Chronicles: The World Tree
Heroes Chronicles: The Fiery Moon
Heroes of Might and Magic I
Heroes of Might and Magic II: The Succession Wars
Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Shadow of Death
Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven
(Foolhardy Waywardness campaign from Armageddon's Blade)
Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Restoration of Erathia
Might and Magic VII: For Blood and Honor
Heroes of Might and Magic III: Armageddon's Blade (except last campaign, see above)
Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer
Heroes Chronicles: Clash of the Dragons
Heroes Chronicles: The Sword of Frost
Heroes of Might and Magic IV
Might and Magic IX: Writ of Fate

Notice that the HOMM2 expansion doesn't seem to fit anywhere in the timeline, but then it wasn't developed by NWC. Also, I've no idea if the HOMM4 expansions fit, but I don't think they do. The AB campaigns are largely independant but they all seem to occur after the main AB campaign (except for Foolhardy Waywardness which definitely occurs where I've placed it, per its ending). And finally, some could be easily swapped around; there's no mention IIRC of the real order in which Revolt, Master and Tree/Moon occur, but leaving Tree/Moon for last makes more sense in light of the end of Fiery Moon and how Clash of the Dragons starts. Oh and Swords of Xeen supposedly takes place right after WOX but it has some odd stuff that contradicts much of the M&M lore.

If anyone thinks this is incorrect please advance in-game proof why.

 

[Jaesun]

Are the Heroes Chronicles, more of an extension of the RTS of the Heroes of Might and Magic series?

 

[Mastermind]

You mean TBS? They're Heroes 3 standalone campaigns.

 

[Saxon1974]

Does it matter if I play MMVII before playing VI? Does the storyline continue from VI to VII?

No and yes respectively. However, there really is no reason not to finish 6.

I might've posted this elsewhere, but in case I haven't here the recommended order of playing through the series:

Might and Magic I: Secret of the Inner Sanctum
Might and Magic II: Gates to Another World
Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra
Might and Magic IV-V: World of Xeen (finish Cloudside before Darkside)
Heroes Chronicles: Warlord of the Wasteland
Heroes Chronicles: Conquest of the Underworld
Heroes Chronicles: Revolt of the Beastmasters
Heroes Chronicles: Master of the Elements
Heroes Chronicles: The World Tree
Heroes Chronicles: The Fiery Moon
Heroes of Might and Magic I
Heroes of Might and Magic II: The Succession Wars
Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Shadow of Death
Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven
(Foolhardy Waywardness campaign from Armageddon's Blade)
Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Restoration of Erathia
Might and Magic VII: For Blood and Honor
Heroes of Might and Magic III: Armageddon's Blade (except last campaign, see above)
Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer
Heroes Chronicles: Clash of the Dragons
Heroes Chronicles: The Sword of Frost
Heroes of Might and Magic IV
Might and Magic IX: Writ of Fate

Notice that the HOMM2 expansion doesn't seem to fit anywhere in the timeline, but then it wasn't developed by NWC. Also, I've no idea if the HOMM4 expansions fit, but I don't think they do. The AB campaigns are largely independant but they all seem to occur after the main AB campaign (except for Foolhardy Waywardness which definitely occurs where I've placed it, per its ending). And finally, some could be easily swapped around; there's no mention IIRC of the real order in which Revolt, Master and Tree/Moon occur, but leaving Tree/Moon for last makes more sense in light of the end of Fiery Moon and how Clash of the Dragons starts. Oh and Swords of Xeen supposedly takes place right after WOX but it has some odd stuff that contradicts much of the M&M lore.

If anyone thinks this is incorrect please advance in-game proof why.

Thanks for the list Skeptic. I have not heard of the Heroes Chronicles games. I'm not interetsed in RTS like the heroes games however.

I may not finish MMVI mostly because I played about half way though and then got a new PC and didnt keep the save game. Not sure I wanna go through the first half again so soon....So I might jump to VII but I dont wanna miss any major plot stuff by doing that.

 

[Sceptic]

Are the Heroes Chronicles, more of an extension of the RTS of the Heroes of Might and Magic series?

HOMM isn't an RTS. It's entire turn-based. It's as much an RTS as Wizardry is a real-time third-person shooter.

But yeah the HC series is pretty much identical mechanics-wise to HOMM. But unlike HOMM each game is just a single 8-mission campaign (6-mission for each of World Tree and Fiery Moon). They all share the same Hero protagonist, Tarnum, though his class changes depending on the game. They're pretty cool in that they flesh out the lore of Antagarich, but the missions themselves vary widely in quality. I played them all and remember Master of the Elements and Sword of Frost being quite good, but don't remember much of the others.

I'm not interetsed in RTS like the heroes games however.

THEY. ARE. NOT. RTS!

I may not finish MMVI mostly because I played about half way though and then got a new PC and didnt keep the save game. Not sure I wanna go through the first half again so soon....So I might jump to VII but I dont wanna miss any major plot stuff by doing that.

Eh, unless you play all the games in the right order you'll be missing out on plot stuff anyway, so it doesn't really matter. Just reading through the MM7 manual will probably tell you all you need to know about the ending of MM6.

 

[mangsy]

No and yes respectively. However, there really is no reason not to finish 6.

I might've posted this elsewhere, but in case I haven't here the recommended order of playing through the series:

Might and Magic I: Secret of the Inner Sanctum
Might and Magic II: Gates to Another World
Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra
Might and Magic IV-V: World of Xeen (finish Cloudside before Darkside)
Heroes Chronicles: Warlord of the Wasteland
Heroes Chronicles: Conquest of the Underworld
Heroes Chronicles: Revolt of the Beastmasters
Heroes Chronicles: Master of the Elements
Heroes Chronicles: The World Tree
Heroes Chronicles: The Fiery Moon
Heroes of Might and Magic I
Heroes of Might and Magic II: The Succession Wars
Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Shadow of Death
Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven
(Foolhardy Waywardness campaign from Armageddon's Blade)
Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Restoration of Erathia
Might and Magic VII: For Blood and Honor
Heroes of Might and Magic III: Armageddon's Blade (except last campaign, see above)
Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer
Heroes Chronicles: Clash of the Dragons
Heroes Chronicles: The Sword of Frost
Heroes of Might and Magic IV
Might and Magic IX: Writ of Fate

Notice that the HOMM2 expansion doesn't seem to fit anywhere in the timeline, but then it wasn't developed by NWC. Also, I've no idea if the HOMM4 expansions fit, but I don't think they do. The AB campaigns are largely independant but they all seem to occur after the main AB campaign (except for Foolhardy Waywardness which definitely occurs where I've placed it, per its ending). And finally, some could be easily swapped around; there's no mention IIRC of the real order in which Revolt, Master and Tree/Moon occur, but leaving Tree/Moon for last makes more sense in light of the end of Fiery Moon and how Clash of the Dragons starts. Oh and Swords of Xeen supposedly takes place right after WOX but it has some odd stuff that contradicts much of the M&M lore.

If anyone thinks this is incorrect please advance in-game proof why.

This man is surrious about his Might and Magic.

 

[octavius]

Regarding Heroes Chronicles, are they any good?
I remember thinking at the time they were released "is there no end to the milking of this franchise?" and skipped them. They have never been part of any HoMM collections that I have seen either.

 

[MMXI]

*twitches*

Hey Sceptic. So I heard you like that RTS series called Heroes of Might and Magic. What's your APM? I'm at 300 now but my friend can click faster at 400. I need to reach his speed in order to out-micro him.

*twitches*

 

[Volourn]

I got this shit on GOG. I pretty much didn't remember much of them when i oruiginally except MM6 which I still had on disk until it stopped working. Anyways, some thoughts with my new experience thoguh I haven't play any of them lot.

MM1: Fuck this shit? I actually liked this game> I mean seriously, dudes, gotta literally type the spells you want? Fuck the shit. I could live with saving only at inn since I'm hardcore that way but some of the stuff is just ugh. I might try it again later.

MM2: Wannabe MM1.

MM3: The number I've had fun with the most with my repurchase. A lot of great hardcore shit here thoguh indentification could be handled smoother. Graphics are okay for its time. I've cleared the first town, working on second town dungeons, and finished the first cave out of town. Lots of freedom to gowhere you want. Can i just ask one favor though, MM3? Fuck off with the status effects, lol. I cna't wait 'til I get the spells to rmeove poison and shit. HA!

MM4+5: Touched briefly as they look very similar to MM3 in style.

MM6: Not as fun as I remember. Skill system is sold, but what the fuck is the annoyance of trying toc ast spells. as you cna only have onen reayd and so time consuming to ready them. Plus, WTF No dwarves!?! FUCK OFF ASSHOLES!

MM7, MM8, &MM9: I don't recall ever playing these three. All I really know is 7 is akin to 6 but brings back multiple races, 8 does some fucked up shit with party make up, and 9 is seemingly universally loathed. I might eventually pick up 7&8 from GOG.

I voted MM6 in the poll IIRC but I kinda regret that now.. might want to change to MM3.


Basic Stuff I Like in MM3
----------------------------

- HARDCORE shit like training, food, aging (including unnatural aging!)
- multiple races and neato classes
- great item system
- solid way of learning talents
- lots of freedom (in fatc, you ar ebetetr leaving town so you can get some easy level ups by burning goblin/orc hideouts since it is easy xp)
- availability of non magic spells

Basic Stuff I Dislike in MM3
------------------------------
- the dungeons while avried in content are basiclaly the same in set up: 1 weak enemy, 1 tough enemy, a certain type of trap, and stat boosters
- inventory and espciially identify system sucks
-status effect inducing enemies are friggin' everywhere and its insane. L0L Just like my characetrs get, ha! Still, better than some games that have non at all
- you don't do anything to level up.. it be nice to have proficienies or get points to point s on stats and shit as it stands levelling is quite boring

So far, my replay of MM3 gets a 7 on the Rewning old Games Scale which is pretty solid. Some other games I've retried failed to live up to old expectations but MM3 is pretty solid for what it is.

 

[Excidium]

I voted MM6 in the poll IIRC but I kinda regret that now.. might want to change to MM3.


Basic Stuff I Like in MM3
----------------------------

- HARDCORE shit like training, food, aging (including unnatural aging!)
- multiple races and neato classes
- great item system
- solid way of learning talents
- lots of freedom (in fatc, you ar ebetetr leaving town so you can get some easy level ups by burning goblin/orc hideouts since it is easy xp)
- availability of non magic spells

Basic Stuff I Dislike in MM3
------------------------------
- the dungeons while avried in content are basiclaly the same in set up: 1 weak enemy, 1 tough enemy, a certain type of trap, and stat boosters
- inventory and espciially identify system sucks
-status effect inducing enemies are friggin' everywhere and its insane. L0L Just like my characetrs get, ha! Still, better than some games that have non at all
- you don't do anything to level up.. it be nice to have proficienies or get points to point s on stats and shit as it stands levelling is quite boring

So far, my replay of MM3 gets a 7 on the Rewning old Games Scale which is pretty solid. Some other games I've retried failed to live up to old expectations but MM3 is pretty solid for what it is.

If you don't want to run back to town to identify everything you loot, you can check all the item modifiers here: http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/pc/mm3/items.shtml

I don't think that training or food are HARDCORE features, though. Training is cheap as hell and it's impossible to run out of food.

 

[Volourn]

I have the guidebook from gog, but that's not the point. It sucks that you can't see what items do in game w/o them reopeatedly being identified. I shouldn't have to quit the game to check it out.

You seem to be confuised by what I mean by 'hardcore'. I don't mean hardcore in terms of 'it makes the game tough'; but in terms of keeping the game more 'realistic' (as realistic as fantasy games with monsters and magic can be).

 

[Sceptic]

Hey Sceptic. So I heard you like that RTS series called Heroes of Might and Magic. What's your APM? I'm at 300 now but my friend can click faster at 400. I need to reach his speed in order to out-micro him.

This man is surrious about his Might and Magic.

I'd say it's the game series I'm most serious about. I'd have to be, to be crazy enough to have played every single one of them... and yeah that includes all the HOMM5's and Dark Messiah. Not Clash of Heroes, though I'm tempted to...

Regarding Heroes Chronicles, are they any good?

As I said earlier they vary in quality. They're definitely milking the franchise, but if you like the HOMM3 campaigns then you'll probably enjoy these, or at least some of them. If you like the Antagrich lore and and want to learn more of its history they do a pretty good job at either expanding on things briefly mentioned in MM6-8, or in the case of Sword of Frost of acting as a build-up of sorts to the HOMM4 introduction. Here's a brief rundown of each:

Warlord of the Wasteland: barbarian campaign. Tarnum's rise to power, the formation of Krewlod, the disintegration of the Bracaduun empire (a small part of which becomes Bracada). Ok overall.

Conquest of the Underworld: human campaign. Some background on the early days of the Gryphonheart empire. Annoying gameplay due to ALL maps being underground, so even the "surface" component of the map tries to mimic the underworld. My least favorite.

Revolt of the Beastmasters: fortress campaign. Bit of background on the mid-Gryphonheart empire, lots on the formation of Tatalia. I hate the fortress units so not my favorite.

Master of the Elements: wizard campaign, get conflux later on. Quite a bit of background on the elemental planes. I love both towns (yeah I know) so I really like this one. Good map design, nice use of visual themes.

World Tree and Fiery Moon: these are two parts of one barbarian campaign (though IIRC you reset at level one). Lots of background on the Ancestors (barbarian dieties) who may or may not be related to the Ancients (doubtful that it's the Ancients themselves, but possibility of being their servants, similar to Sheltem, Corak and the Guardians). I think Fiery Moon is a bit more fun.

Clash of the Dragons: elves. Borrows the special dragons from the Dragonslayer campaign from AB. Direct continuation of Mutare's campaign from AB. Quite good.

The Sword of Frost: don't remember what you play as... I think as dungeon. Brings Gelu from AB, whatshisname the barbarian from Festival of Life (from AB), and leads directly into the introduction of HOMM4. Oh yeah, and the only time you ever get to visit Vori. Quite good.

 

[Jaesun]

I don't know if this is the beginning of OH HAY! LOL LETS RAEP THE M&M FRANCHISE MOAR! But here is a Might anf Magic 25th anniversary video (who unfortunately UBISoft owns):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ70Is4i ... r_embedded

It was rather fun to watch however, seeing all the classic games since M&M 1 and onward....

*sigh*

 

[Sceptic]

It's probably to get people psyched about Heroes 6. Odd to have so much of it about the regular M&M series though, as a very small part of the fandoms overlaps. And Heroes 6 is showing depressing signs of rape, but I'm trying to keep some hope up.
The map at the beginning was just awesome though

 

[DaveO]

Heroes of M&M has not been good since #3, and the Decline of M&M first appeared in MM7. I'm sticking with my opinion that Might & Magic needs to stay dead as a franchise. I don't care what happens to Heroes since King's Bounty has taken the place of HoMM.

 

[Luzur]

do notice how they thrown in some screens of the original RPG series and then go full derp with Heroes.

i hope Ubisoft kills itself soon because of shitty ever dumbed-down Farcry/Heroes sequels so the Codex can buy Might and Magic.

 

[DaveO]

Given how UbiShaft has been with DRM and the quality of releases, you may get your wish fairly soon Luzur.

 

[mangsy]

This man is surrious about his Might and Magic.

I'd say it's the game series I'm most serious about. I'd have to be, to be crazy enough to have played every single one of them... and yeah that includes all the HOMM5's and Dark Messiah. Not Clash of Heroes, though I'm tempted to...

What did you think of HOMM 4 and 5? And where does Dark Messiah fit into your list? Or is that completely unrelated to MM lore?

 

[Storyfag]

That is one hell of an impressive list, Sceptic. My hat is off yo you sir, as you are clearly the greater Heroes nut than my humble self.

And where does Dark Messiah fit into your list? Or is that completely unrelated to MM lore?

Dark Messiah is from the reset continuity which began with Heroes V, meaning it is completely unrelated to HoMM lore as presented in Heroes of Might and Magic 1 to Might and Magic IX (to my understanding Heroes 1 shifted continuity, abandoning the lore from Might and Magic I to V). I think the new continuity goes like this:

Heroes of Might and Magic V
Hammers of Fate
Tribes of the East
Dark Messiah of Might and Magic

 

[Luzur]

Ashan is the new Might and Magic world NWC/3DO started in M&M9 and forward, Enroth (the name of the planet likewise the nation in M&M6 onwards) was destroyed when the Blade of Armageddon clashed with that ice sword thing in combat somewhere (featuring Gelu and some barbarian King you play in a campaign), creating a XBOXHUEG firestorm that swept the world, and refugees from Enroth used magic gates to travel to Ashan.

NWC simply saw the need to reset the franchise, so they cooked up this one and then died, then Ubisoft continued on with Heroes V and Dark Messiah etc.

 

[Darth Roxor]

No. Ashan is the reboot world created when Ubisoft got the franchise.

MM9 + Homm4 world is Axeoth.

 

[Sceptic]

NWC simply saw the need to reset the franchise, so they cooked up this one and then died, then Ubisoft continued on with Heroes V and Dark Messiah etc.

Not at all. The reset moved everyone to Axeoth, and it was very incomplete; it only reset the geography (so NWC didn't have to deal with contradictions like Bracada being snowy mountains in HOMM3 and a dry desert in MM7; I think JVC specifically mentioned this as one of the reasons), but many of the COLONY people, including Nicolai Ironfist, Tarnum and Gavin Magnus (I think Sandro too?) were still around. Then when Ubisoft acquired the brand they reset everything completely this time and created Ashan. Name similarities between Ashan and NWC-worlds are just there as nods (and TBH I would've rather they do without them) but in many cases (with a couple of exceptions like Sandro and Crag Hack) the people from the NWC games are the same across the 3 semi-continuities.

Heroes of M&M has not been good since #3, and the Decline of M&M first appeared in MM7.

I don't think it's fair to say this. HOMM3 was awesome, and MM6 was awesome, but saying everything after them is decline because it was merely excellent (like MM7) is not terribly fair. Still, both series imploded with the Heroes 4 expansions and MM9, and Heroes 6 shows every sign that it might kill HOMM for good, judging from Roxor's sneak preview, so... yeah.

do notice how they thrown in some screens of the original RPG series and then go full derp with Heroes.

Actually they have a video of MM6 (brought a tear to my eye too...), even mention MM9, but I think they skipped over Heroes 4. Which was quite funny.

What did you think of HOMM 4 and 5? And where does Dark Messiah fit into your list? Or is that completely unrelated to MM lore?

I think HOMM 4 had some good ideas but it's ultimately worse than Heroes 2 and 3 (probably 1 too, but then once Heroes 2 came out I moved away from 1 and never really looked back). I don't like a lot of the changes it brought, such as instant retaliation, the heroes being waaaaaaaaaaaaay too overpowered compared to just having an army, and generally I feel the game is very slow-paced; not sure why. Music, as I mentioned elsewhere, is simply the best in the entire franchise, and one of the best soundtracks ever made for a game. The game is full of signs that things were not going well at 3DO and NWC, but it's as if Romero and King were on their own little planet.

HOMM 5 is so similar to HOMM 3 that I don't understand how some people can hate it so much. I think Nival made a very good decision in shifting back to a HOMM3-like system, but kept some improvements from 4 (such as a more complex and interesting skill system and slightly more active involvement of the hero in combat). I really like the initiative system, much more so than in the previous games, and I think disconnecting speed and initiative adds a very nice tactical layer. Graphics are ugly, but I can live with it. Soundtrack is variable, not as consistently good as in 2-4, but when it's good it's really good, and when it's great it's Romero at his best. Campaign design varies from good to awful (including at least one bug where you could LOSE the mission by winning a fight you weren't supposed to). Expansions improved much, especially by having better campaigns, not to mention the dwarven crafting system is a lot of fun. Ashan is a much more generic and less interesting world than the NWC one, but I can live with it.

Dark Messiah fits in the Ashan continuity, which I didn't mention in my other post, hence why I also kept it out. I like it. It's not Might and Magic and I'm glad they didn't call it MM10 (then I would've raged), as an action spinoff it compares very favorably with 3DO's own attempt (Crusaders).

That is one hell of an impressive list, Sceptic. My hat is off yo you sir, as you are clearly the greater Heroes nut than my humble self.

Thanks. I'm more of an M&M nut, and only got involved in HOMM because of the name. All signs say I should've hated the attempt at cashing in on the name, but the series was so addictive that I was too busy playing it to complain and rage...

to my understanding Heroes 1 shifted continuity, abandoning the lore from Might and Magic I to V

Not quite. If you read the HOMM manual, the Morglin Ironfist from HOMM1 (who dies in the HOMM2 intro) is very likely the son or a more distant descendant of the Lord Ironfist of MM1. It makes some location names (New Sorpigal) and characters (Lord Kilburn) in MM6 make more sense. Also, the overarching story of the Ancients and their war with the Creators (and the Kreegan), which is first exposed in MM3, is a strong plot element inr MM6-8 and Heroes 3. And again, the MM3 party shows up as NPC's in MM7, though this contradicts a tiny element of MM5 (then again MM5 itself contradicts a not-so-minor element of MM4 with this, so I find it easier to just ignore the tiny element of MM5).

So the NWC games have 3 continuities: MM1-5, MM6-8 & HOMM 1-3, and HOMM4 & MM9, but they're all related in some way.

Heroes of Might and Magic V
Hammers of Fate
Tribes of the East
Dark Messiah of Might and Magic

Yep. I think most HOMM 5 single missions also fit into the continuity (and some are even referenced in the campaigns) but I never bothered to play them or fit them in.

 

[Storyfag]

but many of the COLONY people, including Nicolai Ironfist, Tarnum and Gavin Magnus (I think Sandro too?) were still around.

Of course he was As much as I loathed Heroes 4 for the infamous Infernopolis, the restriction to 4 tiers of creatures and the general shark jumping, this little touch helped to warm my unbeating heart to this game.

 

[Saxon1974]

Does anyone know how to get the Grayface patch working for MM6 with windows 7?

I tried installing the game outside of the program files directory to avoid the windows 7 security issues and tried running in windows XP compatability mode and neither worked.

The install runs half way and then dissappears and never finishes.

link to patch

https://sites.google.com/site/sergroj/m ... atch-v1.10