Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[octavius]

Might and Magic 6... I'm at 107 hours clocked, opened the Control Center and discovered the Hive and i'm exhausted.
Some explanation and advice would have been really appreciated.

People say blasters rock.
Well, in my game blasters suck. I have two guns and two rifles. I have master skill on all chars. I even raised blaster skill to 15 on two chars hoping that..i dunno..there is some hidden variable for damage?..
But no matter what battle mode i use the monsters just coming closer and beat the shit out of me. Because blaster's damage sucks.

I finished MM6 a year or three ago, my guys being lvl 98 at the end, and this was my reaction to the final area (The Hive, right?):

Last Dungeon was a decline difficulty wise when it came to combat. At this stage the demons could hardly touch me (Titans and Dragons still were nasty, though) and I just blasted them, occasionally casting Sparks against huge numbers.

Blasters are much more effective in real time mode, and unless you get high Master levels, Light and Dark magic is generally inferior to Elemental magic in MM6 (MM7 is a different matter) in my experience. But you need extreme values of Reputation to become a Master of Light or Dark magic, which is difficult without meta gaming.

 

[Reader]

Blaster go brrrrrr

I watched the video you attached and that's really impressive. I think i'll cheese the rest of Control Center like you said, grab two other rifles and be done with that place.

Fireball and rock blast demolish packs at long range. If something survives - come closer and spark it out.

Thanks for advice. I think i have some unused skill points so i'll try rock blast there.

The Hive, right

Yeah
Strangely i don't have problems with Titans and Dragons anymore. Meteor Shower and God Ray work good on them. And Starburst work good on Red Dragons.
But those robots and demons...

But you need extreme values of Reputation to become a Master of Light or Dark magic, which is difficult without meta gaming

I didn't metagame but i had Saintly reputation for quite a while. For one third of my playthrough maybe. Up until i unstoned Archibald.
But i used Town Portal and Beacon a lot and game time moved really slow. Maybe thats why.

Thanks for some advices guys. Hope i'll complete the game today.

 

[jackofshadows]

Whats more, fucking shrapnel costs a ton but does the same puny damage.

Yeah, you should cast it at point blank range. Then it becomes the best indoor spell in the game (not so much in MM6 as in MM7-8 though). Also don't forget to enchant or get some other way rings for +magic school that you're using for every char. Or just use blasters with the haste in rt but that's just boring.

 

[Storyfag]

Whats more, fucking shrapnel costs a ton but does the same puny damage.

Yeah, you should cast it at point blank range. Then it becomes the best indoor spell in the game (not so much in MM6 as in MM7-8 though). Also don't forget to enchant or get some other way rings for +magic school that you're using for every char. Or just use blasters with the haste in rt but that's just boring.

Technicaly, if we consider damage/mana spent, sparks and poison spray are superior to shrapnel. But from a damage/cast perspective it's back to shrapnel.

 

[T. Reich]

Yes. Shrapmetal is THE spell when you need to deal as much damage per cast as possible at close range, regardless of mana cost.
Dragon breath is usually this option for long range.

However, given mana cost considerations, sparks and poison spray are the best by far for close range, and fireball and rock blast the best for long range.

Outdoor is the unchallenged domain of meteor shower and starburst, of course. If you value your reputation, that is. Otherwise, armageddon first, then finish off the survivors.

 

[jackofshadows]

You don't care about mana when you have the torrent so. Have never used such shitty spells like sparks or fireball anywhere near the later stages of the game unless I was restricting myself from using dark magic.

Otherwise, armageddon first, then finish off the survivors.

One of my favorite types of autism in MM7 is to have 4 casters and raise them DM enough to clear land of the giants just by using armageddon.

 

[Reader]

Completed it!
What i didn't know is that if you use specifically A button for attack instead of LMB plus Haste then the blasters go insane.
But i wonder is that how they supposed to behave or just a convenient overlook.

Also don't forget to enchant or get some other way rings for +magic schoo

Do you actually able to get such enchantments from your spell? I got mine +magic school rings from drops. Got two rings for spirit magic and two for mind.
Is mind magic good at something? VS enemies i mean. Mass Fear maybe?..

Other than that - good game. Though comparing to MM3-5 they really rised the difficulty. Well, good reason to replay it eventually with all the knowledge!

 

[Sunri]

Is Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer bad? I remember that I played it when I was a kid and really liked it I was thinking about replaying it, but it got low amount of votes, so maybe I should try some other part hmm?

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Is Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer bad? I remember that I played it when I was a kid and really liked it I was thinking about replaying it, but it got low amount of votes, so maybe I should try some other part hmm?

It’s the weakest of the VI-VIII trilogy, but it’s not bad. Worth playing if you enjoyed VI and VII.

 

[octavius]

Completed it!
What i didn't know is that if you use specifically A button for attack instead of LMB plus Haste then the blasters go insane.
But i wonder is that how they supposed to behave or just a convenient overlook.

That reminds me of MM3-5, where you could Shoot twice if hit the S twice rapidly. I'm still not sure if that was an undocumented design feature of not.

 

[Grunker]

Is Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer bad? I remember that I played it when I was a kid and really liked it I was thinking about replaying it, but it got low amount of votes, so maybe I should try some other part hmm?

It’s… ok. It’s just way less good than the preceding games

 

[Darth Canoli]

Is Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer bad? I remember that I played it when I was a kid and really liked it I was thinking about replaying it, but it got low amount of votes, so maybe I should try some other part hmm?

Shorter dungeons overall but well designed, the game is very good but easier than M&M VI, elemental planes aside.
Minotaur + axe, bring this guy because you can, or a Troll tank + mace.
Not both though, because casters still rule M&M world.

 

[jackofshadows]

What i didn't know is that if you use specifically A button for attack instead of LMB plus Haste then the blasters go insane.
But i wonder is that how they supposed to behave or just a convenient overlook.

I'm sure it's intended. Using A early when you have bows and shoot enemies is also very covenient and works properly all around. You just don't get to select the target.

Do you actually able to get such enchantments from your spell? I got mine +magic school rings from drops. Got two rings for spirit magic and two for mind.
Is mind magic good at something? VS enemies i mean. Mass Fear maybe?..

Now that you ask - I'm not 100% sure, maybe not at all or very low %. What I meant was - if you didn't get lucky with the drops - check all the high tier stores for those specifically.

Is Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer bad? I remember that I played it when I was a kid and really liked it I was thinking about replaying it, but it got low amount of votes, so maybe I should try some other part hmm?

They had even much less dev time than for M&M VII and it SHOWS. One little dungeon is even half-copy-pasted from the previous game (dwarf-niggers one). Another one is clearly unfinished and serves no purpose. There's still sacrfice spell but you cannot hire NPCs anymore... Moreover, they went for quite radical design changes (5 chars vs 4, you create only main char and recruit the others, introduced a certain VERY cool race to play) but obviously didn't have enough time to properly thought that all out and test. The series never was about tight gameplay and strict power curve but in VIII BALANCE™ is simply out of whack, completely. All that said, it's worth a playthrough if you really enjoyed VI-VII and want more.

Minotaur + axe, bring this guy because you can, or a Troll tank + mace.
Not both though, because casters still rule M&M world.

Both total trash compared to knights. But I'd recommend to take one of those too just to wank over their dolls and how awesome even the shittiest pieces of armor look on them.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Both total trash compared to knights. But I'd recommend to take one of those too just to wank over their dolls and how awesome even the shittiest pieces of armor look on them.

Sword + lance is just boring, halving opponent AC with an axe or stunning with a mace is just fun and the troll with bodybuilding + regen GM + leather GM makes for the best tank.
The only thing that sucks is Minotaurs with no GM armor skill (but I remember using some cheats to get one anyway during my last playthrough because i wanted GM chain on my minotaur)

Also, one thing I dislike is how gated are traveling spells, it's alright to go through the game restrictions on the first playthrough but replaying M&M over the years, adding Master water + town portal to your mage early on really helps, Town portal should have been an expert spell to begin with and lloyd's beacon a master one.

/ranting.

 

[jackofshadows]

Sword + lance is just boring, halving opponent AC with an axe or stunning with a mace is just fun and the troll with bodybuilding + regen GM + leather GM makes for the best tank.
The only thing that sucks is Minotaurs with no GM armor skill (but I remember using some cheats to get one anyway during my last playthrough because i wanted GM chain on my minotaur)

No special effects - kinda boring yea but seeing more attacks/damage therefore watching how mobs die more quickly (and not your party members instead) is more important in terms of fun to me. Both special effects as halving AC and stun are incredibly inconsistent due to low chance in itself multiplied by chance to actually miss because of low attack. Knights on the other hand are having waaaay more attack points thanks to armsmaster which compensates and puts them ahead of Minotaurs/Trolls in terms of again, everything. With the exception of troll's thiccness but personally I always prefer attack to defence in M&M games.

As for Minotaurs - they're complete joke. Their magic potential is useless, their damage and thc are laughable compared to knights and even their perception skill is rather worthless in a sense that it can be easily boosted by rings and therefore you don't have to have GM in it to see everything in the game. And even small (and cool, actually) as it might be, but their inability to wear helms/boots isn't helping. Probably the worst class in the game.

Also, one thing I dislike is how gated are traveling spells, it's alright to go through the game restrictions on the first playthrough but replaying M&M over the years, adding Master water + town portal to your mage early on really helps, Town portal should have been an expert spell to begin with and lloyd's beacon a master one.

If you're replaying then simply go for it, Baltazar dungeon isn't that hard - clearable on 15 lvl or even earlier, depends on the party ofc. There, you got your tp on 15 lvl when the end game is like 80+ lvl - what's more do you want? In VII you unlock water mastery the same time you unlock air obviously so just buy invisibility and walk through the tonnel. As for lloyd - are you fucking insane? That shit is op as is, no reason to give it out earlier.

 

[lukaszek]

i for one prefer mm8 over mm7

 

[Darth Canoli]

No special effects - kinda boring yea but seeing more attacks/damage therefore watching how mobs die more quickly (and not your party members instead) is more important in terms of fun to me. Both special effects as halving AC and stun are incredibly inconsistent due to low chance in itself multiplied by chance to actually miss because of low attack. Knights on the other hand are having waaaay more attack points thanks to armsmaster which compensates and puts them ahead of Minotaurs/Trolls in terms of again, everything. With the exception of troll's thiccness but personally I always prefer attack to defence in M&M games.

As for Minotaurs - they're complete joke. Their magic potential is useless, their damage and thc are laughable compared to knights and even their perception skill is rather worthless in a sense that it can be easily boosted by rings and therefore you don't have to have GM in it to see everything in the game. And even small (and cool, actually) as it might be, but their inability to wear helms/boots isn't helping. Probably the worst class in the game.

I would agree with you if I didn't know the franchise as well as I do.
But I do and with bless + heroism and eventually fate if necessary, whatever you said is just bullshit and when stun/halves the enemy AC triggers on a powerful foe, it makes all the difference.
So sure GM instead of M armsmaster does a difference (doubles the bonuses) but in practice, THC bonus don't matter that much, only recovery and damage do and special attacks and spells balance this.
Also haste + fast weapons will also cancel the recovery bonus which is limited by the weapon type so it's only + dmg versus special attacks...

Last but not least, having a Troll or a Minotaur in your party, how many good RPG allow it?

 

[Storyfag]

i for one prefer mm8 over mm7

Seconded. Much more vibrant colours. VII feels bleak, desaturated. Even compared to VI.

Still, the MMMerge mod combining all 3 is the optimal choice.

 

[jackofshadows]

I would agree with you if I didn't know the franchise as well as I do.
But I do and with bless + heroism and eventually fate if necessary, whatever you said is just bullshit and when stun/halves the enemy AC triggers on a powerful foe, it makes all the difference.
So sure GM instead of M armsmaster does a difference (doubles the bonuses) but in practice, THC bonus don't matter that much, only recovery and damage do and special attacks and spells balance this.
Also haste + fast weapons will also cancel the recovery bonus which is limited by the weapon type so it's only + dmg versus special attacks...

Last but not least, having a Troll or a Minotaur in your party, how many good RPG allow it?

Okay lets put it that way - full buffs. Then you can just forget about halving the AC thing - it's absolutely useless since you have more than enough attack anyway. And the damage difference is huge - by the end game champions can easily do triple+ of what trolls/minotaurs do thanks to additional weapon and stacking of armmaster bonuses. That's just too much, dude. Axes should do way more damage in order to make minos even remotely comparable in terms of raw output. And having even say 25-30% of stun is meh in the end game - you can have enough overall damage instead to slaughter to bits anything even w/o necros - why bother to proc stun? Being able to do that and be more thicc could matter in more tactical game like MMX but not in VII, generally speaking. Anyhow, their bonuses are too situational and simply weak.

But otherwise, in terms of coolness and the privilege to have - I agree, sure. It's just sad to see that despite all the clear devs efforts to make them both desirable in party they were able to actually deliver only the cosmetic reasons.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I partially agree with you, it's not good enough but do you need the full power of armaster? No.
Also, some mods makes the game way harder and stunning your opponents isn't a gimmick.
As for the axe, i remember giving huge blows with it, luck probably helps.

Still, balance ruins the fun, each time i replay M&M 6-8, i pick a different warrior type, last time was a dodge monk + unarmed + staff with the merge mod (starting with VII's world), before it was a minotaur + axe in M&M VIII...

 

[lukaszek]

Seconded. Much more vibrant colours. VII feels bleak, desaturated. Even compared to VI.

exactly this. mm7 somehow lost its charm and big part of it are monotone textures without anything to break the landscape, like big grass area without flowers that mm6 had plenty of.

I dont think single dungeon from mm7 left lasting impression. good/evil angle and ui skin change was cool but not enough.
Always felt that mm7 was designed around abusing invis spell

Meanwhile mm8 obviously had many issues, but it gotten its charm back, there are locations I actually still remember

 

[jackofshadows]

I partially agree with you, it's not good enough but do you need the full power of armaster? No.
Also, some mods makes the game way harder and stunning your opponents isn't a gimmick.
As for the axe, i remember giving huge blows with it, luck probably helps.

Still, balance ruins the fun, each time i replay M&M 6-8, i pick a different warrior type, last time was a dodge monk + unarmed + staff with the merge mod (starting with VII's world), before it was a minotaur + axe in M&M VIII...

What do you mean don't need the power? You need every bit of power you can get!

Playing a harder version of the game, even there - having like 10-25% chance to stun instead of much more damage output? Meh. Not to mention replacing a troll with some caster and use reliable magic. Anyway, little point in discussing notional mod - we need to establish in which terms it makes the game harder first. Only if bloat is absolutely unbearable then - you could argue that you need every cc you can get otherwise you can just min-max. Then again, why play such a mod?

Maybe you're mixing up axes with daggers - only they can 'crit', with axe even breaking 100 damage is no small task. Their damage potential is pathetic.

Yes, that's what makes M&M fun in the first place: any class/party is viable I just wish aforediscussed perks were stronger or different otherwise taking any of them into party feels like shooting in the leg.
___________

I agree with mm7<mm8 in terms of palette and even location design, to me mm7 was just always the special installment because it has (arguably) the most resemblance with the homm series... And I wish mm8 locations were better developed - the design is one thing but the actual exploring of the end result is another. Talking about the end game location mostly here.

 

[Storyfag]

to me mm7 was just always the special installment because it has (arguably) the most resemblance with the homm series...

Having the warring nations of HoMM III scaled down to the shantytowns of MM VII was a bit of a letdown. Steadwick has nothing on Free Haven or Ravenshore, sadly. And where is Krewlod?

 

[Grunker]

VII is easily the best game of the three. Dungeons are still complex and cool and has less of VI's filler, the skill system is just a strictly improved version of VI and the exploration is better. That without the problems of VIII makes it a clear winner <3

 

[Dorateen]

And VII has dwarves.