KickStarter The Legends of Eisenwald Thread

[NorthLurker]

Interesting about the executive producer - who is not just a producer but in fact an investor. Aterdux had $83k from Kickstarter; after commissions and rewards we can say, something like $50k; that lasted them ten months. Now they are hiring several new people and will work for another five months, which means this producer is putting in a similar or little less amount of money in the game. All fine with me, $80k was always going to be a small amount and I'm happy they get to spend more time on the game, but it'll be interesting to compare community reactions to this to Logic Artists.

Waiting for preorders to come live. Nearer the release, I guess.

there is a preorder option on the aterdux site

 

[J_C]

I don't have a big problem with pushing the release date even further, but it really shows how they didn't plan out the whole project. They pushed the date back several times now.

 

[commie]

Good, was starting to wonder if Aterdux had become another Logic Artists. As for the mystery investor, well it's better than the Clevean method of running back to Indiegogo every couple of months when the booze and pizza money runs out. If it's Lukashenko it can only be a good thing.

 

[Metro]

I don't have a big problem with pushing the release date even further, but it really shows how they didn't plan out the whole project. They pushed the date back several times now.

Sort of like Double Fine~

 

[Commissar Draco]

Don't mind if they will deliver bug free, stable and polished game. And People were laughing at me when I predicted delays in 2012.

 

[J_C]

I don't have a big problem with pushing the release date even further, but it really shows how they didn't plan out the whole project. They pushed the date back several times now.

Sort of like Double Fine~

Yes. To be fair, these kickstarters (DFA, Eisenwald) were among the first ones, they might not know what did they get themselves into. I hope inXile and Obsidian won't delay too much (I'm sure they will delay some, just hope it is reasonable).

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

I don't have a big problem with pushing the release date even further, but it really shows how they didn't plan out the whole project. They pushed the date back several times now.

J_C, we planned, but as it turns out - we suck at planning. To be more precise, we simply don't have the experience of planning such large scale projects as our game. And letting go of ideas - "if we work hard, we can get done by April" is not that easy. Put all these things together and you will have what we have. That is unfortunate but still no reason to give up or rush out not ready game.

Interesting thing, but I remember how in the very beginning of development, in Feb of 2010, I was at a conference and heard a post mortem about the game (I think it was Divine Divinity but not quite sure) and the devs said that they planned the game for 2 years and a certain budget but they ended up doing it for 4 years and spend twice as much money as planned. I remember thinking back then - well, we have a plan, a budget, something like this will never happen to us. But now, we already spent over 3 years over initially planned 2, and 3 times the original budget. I guess back then it was hard to make long term plans and I was not that knowledgeable. Well, now I know at least a bit more

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

Aterdux Entertainment

Have you guys solved your potential AI issues, that could have allowed moving around units? Last we talked about it, you said that the problem was the enemy units were fleeing and huddling up in the corner.

It looks like we found a solution (it might change but for now) - ranged and casting units would be allowed to step back just one hex instead of shooting. This way seems to have balance - changing position has a penalty of not shooting and at the same time adds a little to tactical variety. I say a little because the situation for a ranged or casting unit to step would not happen very often.

 

[J_C]

I don't have a big problem with pushing the release date even further, but it really shows how they didn't plan out the whole project. They pushed the date back several times now.

J_C, we planned, but as it turns out - we suck at planning. To be more precise, we simply don't have the experience of planning such large scale projects as our game. And letting go of ideas - "if we work hard, we can get done by April" is not that easy. Put all these things together and you will have what we have. That is unfortunate but still no reason to give up or rush out not ready game.

Interesting thing, but I remember how in the very beginning of development, in Feb of 2010, I was at a conference and heard a post mortem about the game (I think it was Divine Divinity but not quite sure) and the devs said that they planned the game for 2 years and a certain budget but they ended up doing it for 4 years and spend twice as much money as planned. I remember thinking back then - well, we have a plan, a budget, something like this will never happen to us. But now, we already spent over 3 years over initially planned 2, and 3 times the original budget. I guess back then it was hard to make long term plans and I was not that knowledgeable. Well, now I know at least a bit more

I understand that of course. Just to be clear, the delay is not a big thing for me, if it will result in a polished game (and I'm sure this is your goal). Looking forward for Eisenwald.

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

Since you guys have actual combat grid and limited one at that (which in my books is great) would it be possible to have fleeing mechanics and a morale mechanics? Just saying.

Fleeing mechanics - meaning much weaker troops would run away - we are planning to add it. Morale mechanics - probably not in combat, but it will be in some form in decisions you will make in the game...

 

[Crooked Bee]

Why does every brainfart that comes out of Inxile get a new newspost (that update 18 was pretty much useless rubbish), when a far more detail and newsworthy information comes out of Aterdux and i've gotta go to page 4 to find the most recent newspost?

Infinitron keeps track of InXile so they get regular newsposts, but he can't keep track of everything. So if you think we've missed an important update on whatever game you're following, do let us know via the Contact Us form. Thank you.

 

[Grunker]

@Aterdux: Still looking forward to playing your game. Congratulations on signing a deal for some extra resources

it'll be interesting to compare community reactions to this to Logic Artists.

It won't be NEARLY as bad. See, Aterdux communicated this far better.

This'll end up proving my point, that communication was the root of the problem.

Just look at Shrek, vehemently opposing when LA did the same thing, now quietly discussing AI mechanics.

 

[Grunker]

Why does every brainfart that comes out of Inxile get a new newspost (that update 18 was pretty much useless rubbish), when a far more detail and newsworthy information comes out of Aterdux and i've gotta go to page 4 to find the most recent newspost?

Are you paying us? Have you hired us to make sure coverage is equal and covers your interest? No? Then either get your ass out of your chair and post us some news or shut your dirty, lazy mouth.

Or send me a cheque. Euro preferred.

 

[commie]

Stop double posting Darklord....yeah I know who you are, you LA apologist.

 

[Kosmonaut]

Darklord = Grunker?

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

Yeah, I noticed you guys were calling him a "producer." Good to see that the Conquistador thread was educational.

Yes, the Conquistador thread was helpful It was not an "ahead of time" defense for us, but rather really knowing what their situation is like at the moment. Because ours is not that much different. Let's see.

• They invested their own money and resources - so did we
• They ran out of money and went to Kickstarter - so did we
• We both went to Greenlight and had a bit of different experiences
• Unlike us, they are much closer to finishing the game.

All in all, that's quite similar story.

 

[Kosmonaut]

But at least you were honest about your deals.

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

But at least you were honest about your deals.

We take "Learn about accountability" section on Kickstarter seriously. Working on a project we stumble on all sort of things and be honest and upfront about it is the best policy, in my opinion. Many backers actually wrote us privately saying that followng our project has an unexpected benefit for them - they get to see what difficulties and problems developers are facing.

We were among the first ones on Kickstarter and there were just a few projects we would learn something from. Today, for example, if a project launches on Kickstarter, devs can see more data, including delay data, and plan accordingly. I think when projects openly share their experiences, it is a benefit for everyone, including other projects...

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

This is exactly why Kickstarter SHOULD exist.

Yes! Because of our Kickstarter experience and life after Kickstarter (I think this could be a title for my next article) it seems to us that a new definition of successful project can be created: it's a project where the amount of good decisions is bigger than the amount of bad decisions. We did many things wrong, but did many things well, often in response to what was done wrong. Kickstarter is amazing experience and gave us a lot of insight and understanding.

And it's a training ground in a way... I am terrified at a thought we could have done all our mistakes during the release phase and not during Kickstarter... Those of you, who might have skipped my post-mortem, check it out here. I know I should have written it long time ago, but I only managed to put everything together in February.

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

That was really mighty good of you. Do you mind if I spread this around a bit? Like for autoloot games? They are also making a Turn based game which you may be familiar with.

Of course, I don't mind! I wrote it with intention of sharing our experience and with hope it might be helpful to others. I am still in process of learning how to spread information...

I saw autoloot's campaign. I hope they can do it the second time around. There is a group on Facebook called "Russians on Kickstarter". It's a great group to post information about crowdfunding projects or concepts and get feedback. I am not sure if there is a similar group in English. But I would recommend those guys to get some feedback before they launch their campaign again. I can give them some feedback too if they ask me, but they better get it from quite a few others...

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

I can give them some feedback too if they ask me, but they better get it from quite a few others...

In my experience, in most cases unsolicited feedback does not work.

 

[DeepOcean]

I don't have a problem of small developers trying to adapt to financial problems even if they need investors or publishers in some form to complete the game instead of releasing a half-finished game, not everyone have 4 million dollars budgets like InExile and Obsidian. The big problem is that kickstarter is different than a simple pre-ordering, and the developers that fail to see that are going to get a massive backlash, we are talking of a niche market, there isn't a legion of ignorant retards that buys turn based games without thought, if a developer gets a bad reputation, it can really affect their sales. When I pre-order a game, I know I'm going to get a game, trust isn't needed, if I don't get the game I can sue the company. Kickstarter is different, it is all about trust and trust is something hard to get and easy to lose, I don't know if you guys are going to use kickstarter again in the future but don't do what Logic Artists did. Right know, I feel that Conquistador needs to be a really awesome game to somewhat compensate for their lack of transparency, keeping the backers in the dark is always a bad idea. I fear that they burned bridges with alot of potential future backers.

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

I know. That is why I "quoted" them. This creates an alert TO THEM. They will now be aware of this thread and of your offer.

Oh, I see - that's very smart! I didn't know it works like that, thank you! I learned one more cool thing about Codex

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

I don't have a problem of small developers trying to adapt to financial problems even if they need investors or publishers in some form to complete the game instead of releasing a half-finished game, not everyone have 4 million dollars budgets like InExile and Obsidian. The big problem is that kickstarter is different than a simple pre-ordering, and the developers that fail to see that are going to get a massive backlash, we are talking of a niche market, there isn't a legion of ignorant retards that buys turn based games without thought, if a developer gets a bad reputation, it can really affect their sales. When I pre-order a game, I know I'm going to get a game, trust isn't needed, if I don't get the game I can sue the company. Kickstarter is different, it is all about trust and trust is something hard to get and easy to lose, I don't know if you guys are going to use kickstarter again in the future but don't do what Logic Artists did. Right know, I feel that Conquistador needs to be a really awesome game to somewhat compensate for their lack of transparency, keeping the backers in the dark is always a bad idea. I fear that they burned bridges with alot of potential future backers.

I guess we all learned that communication is very important! If we screw up something, do let us know though!

 

[Azurite Games]

Captain Shrek said:↑

That was really mighty good of you. Do you mind if I spread this around a bit? Like for autoloot games? They are also making a Turn based game which you may be familiar with.​

Of course, I don't mind! I wrote it with intention of sharing our experience and with hope it might be helpful to others. I am still in process of learning how to spread information...

I saw autoloot's campaign. I hope they can do it the second time around. There is a group on Facebook called "Russians on Kickstarter". It's a great group to post information about crowdfunding projects or concepts and get feedback. I am not sure if there is a similar group in English. But I would recommend those guys to get some feedback before they launch their campaign again. I can give them some feedback too if they ask me, but they better get it from quite a few others...

First of all, thanks Captain Shrek for the alert, I sincerely appreciate your help a lot. I also want to thank the guys at Atenrdux, I read your postmortem many times, there were many insightful stuff, but it was a bit too late for us due to our ignorance and lack of knowledge of what it took to manage a KS campaign (I perfectly understand Larian Studios Swen's post about the tough it is!). We also rushed due to budget constraints, so it didn't help either. It would be awesome to have a chat with you guys so you can give us some hints on how to improve on our relaunch.

This time we will take 3 months before the next KS campaign. Next week we'll share a Vision Doc with the community to get some feedback as we changed the whole story an are improving some game systems... the Russians on Kickstarter can prove a very valuable source for it either! I do agree getting early and constant feedback is most benefitial for any project.

About our Greenlight page, we only have 43% votes to enter the Top100, we'll see how it goes when running some PR, Legends of Eisendwall being at the 12th position is an awesome milestone, congratz for that! =) We are in talk with GoG but they need a playabale build, and this means all systems must be into place, so I reckon 6 months for that. Also with Gamersgate, reaching an agreement with them will be easier as they already sent us the contract, so we will have a DRM-free no matter what.

Whoa, you were lucky with that Russian businessman, it's such a blessing! We face a similar situation, but no Sheikh from Abu Dabi has knocked our door yet! We are actively looking for ways to fund the development of TDT for if the KS campaign went wrong.This wouold be reckless on our side. There's too much done to throw the towel now. As DeepOcean said, nothing guarantees you to get the trust of people, specially being an unknown developer. Reaching the number of backers of Obsidian, inXile, Lord British or Larian is out of place. We are very aware of where we are. BUT, at the same time, we are very confident we can delilver something good, and the next KS campaign must prove that to a great extent.

Sorry for the long post, the alert was a bit of like drinking water on the desert, many thanks again and best luck to Legends of Eisendwald, a lot of respect to you guys for doing what you like! =)