The Legend of Heroes Thread - Trails of Cold Steel in the Sky

[HoboForEternity]

More than anything I hated when the Sky games pushed orbally-impaired characters (Tita, Agate, Zin etc) onto me due to plot reasons, who had to be constantly babysat by the rest of the team since melee is barely viable in these games (I played on Hard though - perhaps on Normal it's not as bad). I hope Zero will avoid that.

Basically in zero and azure : meheeehee gallion tower go brr, zero field go brr

 

[Rahdulan]

More than anything I hated when the Sky games pushed orbally-impaired characters (Tita, Agate, Zin etc) onto me due to plot reasons, who had to be constantly babysat by the rest of the team since melee is barely viable in these games (I played on Hard though - perhaps on Normal it's not as bad). I hope Zero will avoid that.

It's definitely not the case on Normal. Tita's Smoke Cannon Craft basically trivializes group fights as long as you round up enemies to affect them all. Similar case with Agate and his Spiral Edge Craft which can delay enemies into oblivion. Difficulty does make the difference here.

 

[Jackpot]

Played through the Crossbell games recently after having gone through the rest of the series from FC to Coldsteel 2 like 5 years ago.
Enjoyed them a lot, the characters and settings were great and (for a jrpg) the pacing was pretty good. Though the ending was super fucking abrupt and not satisfying.
I liked them so much I tried playing through the cold steel games again!
God those games are soooooo bland, especially in comparison to Azure and Zero. Not even that bad, just bland and generic. I don't think I'll ever make it to Coldsteel 3 to see the story actually progress.

 

[Maxie]

Played through the Crossbell games recently after having gone through the rest of the series from FC to Coldsteel 2 like 5 years ago.
Enjoyed them a lot, the characters and settings were great and (for a jrpg) the pacing was pretty good. Though the ending was super fucking abrupt and not satisfying.
I liked them so much I tried playing through the cold steel games again!
God those games are soooooo bland, especially in comparison to Azure and Zero. Not even that bad, just bland and generic. I don't think I'll ever make it to Coldsteel 3 to see the story actually progress.

Based opinion

 

[Reinhardt]

rean is just boring. shitty isekai tier boring.

 

[santino27]

Rean is boring, yeah, but the way the story was told was the bigger problem for me. It might be an anime thing (I don't watch anime) but the game's writers are so in love with the bad guys and their 'stories' that you constantly have them escaping or being left alive or whatever so they can show up again later. Not to mention the whole 'easily crush an encounter, followed by a cutscene where apparently you barely made it through that same encounter and the bad guys reveal a hidden power and only [some other rando showing up] can save you' trope that happens multiple times per game. Just shitty storytelling.

 

[Rean]

All Reanism deniers shall meet the sharp end of the guillotine.

 

[Tse Tse Fly]

All right, I finished Zero today. I have a question regarding the story (I'd like to avoid reading wikis or anything so as not to risk spoiling things for myself more than I absolutely have to)

spoilers

Unless I'm forgetting some crucial details, Renne really hadn't any reasons to abandon her parents? So Estelle and Joshua basically kidnapped her?

 

[Ysaye]

All right, I finished Zero today. I have a question regarding the story (I'd like to avoid reading wikis or anything so as not to risk spoiling things for myself more than I absolutely have to)

spoilers

Unless I'm forgetting some crucial details, Renne really hadn't any reasons to abandon her parents? So Estelle and Joshua basically kidnapped her?

spoilers

I presume you saw Star Door 15 in Sky the 3rd which tells the same story from her perspective? Basically she is not ready emotionally to come back to them, which makes sense. She has further interactions with them in later games.

 

[Maxie]

All right, I finished Zero today. I have a question regarding the story (I'd like to avoid reading wikis or anything so as not to risk spoiling things for myself more than I absolutely have to)

spoilers

Unless I'm forgetting some crucial details, Renne really hadn't any reasons to abandon her parents? So Estelle and Joshua basically kidnapped her?

They're living comfy and normal life remembering their long gone eldest daughter presumably dead, her barging in would be inconsiderate

 

[cruel]

I've finally finished Trails SC. What a wonderful game, absolutely perfect game to play on Steam Deck before going to bed (10% of battery for 1h session). They fixed most of the problems I had with the first one, mostly the boredom and Estelle being extremely annoying. She was still annoying here, but to a much lesser / tolerable extent, which proves they know how to make a character grow. I was planning to skip 3rd because of much worse reviews and different game design, but now I just need to finish the Trilogy properly and just bought it. Will play Zero after.

 

[Maxie]

I've finally finished Trails SC. What a wonderful game, absolutely perfect game to play on Steam Deck before going to bed (10% of battery for 1h session). They fixed most of the problems I had with the first one, mostly the boredom and Estelle being extremely annoying. She was still annoying here, but to a much lesser / tolerable extent, which proves they know how to make a character grow. I was planning to skip 3rd because of much worse reviews and different game design, but now I just need to finish the Trilogy properly and just bought it. Will play Zero after.

i will find u and i will kill u if u dont play sky the third

 

[Jermu]

skipping 3rd is indeed retarded better than any CS game
also skipping game because of reviews is retarded

 

[Modron]

Allow me to be the voice of dissent. if it sounds to you that the game is not for you it might not be. I listened to everyone here and bought the 3rd despite being on the fence myself and did not care for it. Your mileage may vary of course but take the universal praise with a grain of salt.

Try it before you buy it.

 

[Tse Tse Fly]

All right, I finished Zero today. I have a question regarding the story (I'd like to avoid reading wikis or anything so as not to risk spoiling things for myself more than I absolutely have to)

spoilers

Unless I'm forgetting some crucial details, Renne really hadn't any reasons to abandon her parents? So Estelle and Joshua basically kidnapped her?

spoilers

I presume you saw Star Door 15 in Sky the 3rd which tells the same story from her perspective? Basically she is not ready emotionally to come back to them, which makes sense. She has further interactions with them in later games.

spoilers

I did see Renne's side-stories in Sky the 3rd, but I suppose (now, I don't remember that or the opposite being stated explicitly in the Star Door 15 side story, but if Renne knew the truth back then, it doesn't make any more sense to reject her parents) when Renne met her parents for the first time after being rescued by Joshua and Loewe and she decided to go her own way, she didn't know yet the real reason why they had chosen to leave her? And now I learn she subsequently gets adopted into the Brights family as if she was an orphan or her parents were terrible people who hated her. That's weird.

 

[Maxie]

All right, I finished Zero today. I have a question regarding the story (I'd like to avoid reading wikis or anything so as not to risk spoiling things for myself more than I absolutely have to)

spoilers

Unless I'm forgetting some crucial details, Renne really hadn't any reasons to abandon her parents? So Estelle and Joshua basically kidnapped her?

spoilers

I presume you saw Star Door 15 in Sky the 3rd which tells the same story from her perspective? Basically she is not ready emotionally to come back to them, which makes sense. She has further interactions with them in later games.

spoilers

I did see Renne's side-stories in Sky the 3rd, but I suppose (now, I don't remember that or the opposite being stated explicitly in the Star Door 15 side story, but if Renne knew the truth back then, it doesn't make any more sense to reject her parents) when Renne met her parents for the first time after being rescued by Joshua and Loewe and she decided to go her own way, she didn't know yet the real reason why they had chosen to leave her? And now I learn she subsequently gets adopted into the Brights family as if she was an orphan or her parents were terrible people who hated her. That's weird.

Spoiler

personally I think she's a little too disturbed due to being a schizofrenic murderer/child prostitute to form 'normal' ties with people, and Joshua is at least relatable because he was in a dark place himself

 

[Tse Tse Fly]

All right, I finished Zero today. I have a question regarding the story (I'd like to avoid reading wikis or anything so as not to risk spoiling things for myself more than I absolutely have to)

spoilers

Unless I'm forgetting some crucial details, Renne really hadn't any reasons to abandon her parents? So Estelle and Joshua basically kidnapped her?

spoilers

I presume you saw Star Door 15 in Sky the 3rd which tells the same story from her perspective? Basically she is not ready emotionally to come back to them, which makes sense. She has further interactions with them in later games.

spoilers

I did see Renne's side-stories in Sky the 3rd, but I suppose (now, I don't remember that or the opposite being stated explicitly in the Star Door 15 side story, but if Renne knew the truth back then, it doesn't make any more sense to reject her parents) when Renne met her parents for the first time after being rescued by Joshua and Loewe and she decided to go her own way, she didn't know yet the real reason why they had chosen to leave her? And now I learn she subsequently gets adopted into the Brights family as if she was an orphan or her parents were terrible people who hated her. That's weird.

Spoiler

personally I think she's a little too disturbed due to being a schizofrenic murderer/child prostitute to form 'normal' ties with people, and Joshua is at least relatable because he was in a dark place himself

spoilers

But Joshua was able to come back to Estelle despite what he had done, why couldn't things work out for Renne too. I mean Estelle and Joshua could at least try to reunite the family. I don't remember any such scene in Zero. Hopefully it happened offstage, and Renne specifically asked Estelle and Joshua not to communicate to her parents...just yet.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Spoiler

They had to drag out the drama for future games.

 

[Maxie]

Spoiler

They had to drag out the drama for future games.

fortunately there are no more games after Ao, just a series of silly practical jokes

 

[Jermu]

kuro is good

 

[Kaivokz]

I just finished Trails in the Sky 1 on Nightmare. Played side by side with my wife.

Mediocre combat padded with a ridiculous story that could have been told in 30 minutes instead of 40 hours. Story thoughts:

Spoiler

(1) The good guys are lawful stupid (except maybe Cassius?). The bad guys' motivation is, in the words of the Queen, "that Liberl would become a strong military power, with the colonel ruling from the shadows..." Joshua explains: "Taxes would be levied to fill the war chest... Orbal weaponry would be developed with the express intent of causing havoc on a massive scale... A wide-ranging policy of conscription would be adopted... And no doubt contracting jaeger corps would be made legal, which is not the case at present."

Why do they want to do this? Because Erebonia already invaded Liberl once and literally captured the entire country except the capital city. What turned it around? Advancements in orbal technology (mobile airships) and (apparently) Cassuis' strategic planning. How does the queen want to protect her country?

Queen Alicia: Indeed, the colonel has made very adamant requests that I enact such policies.

I thought that such proposals were born out of genuine love for his country... but I never agreed that they were the right course of action to take.

The Royal Army is not all that protects this land. We have worked hard to maintain treaties with other countries.

Defending a nation goes hand in hand with free cultural exchange and trade with all other nations, to the benefit of all.

Remind me, lady, how would "free culutral exchange" and "trade treaties" have prevented Erebonia from conquering your entire kingdom? This game takes places in S.1202 and the last invasion of Liberl was the hundred days war in S.1192. So it was only 10 years ago, when the very same Queen Alicia sat on the throne. She almost let her country be conquered, until it was saved at the last minute mostly by chance, and she has apparently learned nothing.

When you confront Richard, this is what he says:

Colonel Richard: As you are, no doubt, aware, Liberl is lacking in political power among our neighboring nations.

We have only a fifth of Calvard's population. And we don't even have an eighth of Erebonia's military capacity.

Our sole superior aspect is our technology, and that will not last.

We need some form of real strength to avoid any chance of another invasion attempt.

Given that he founded the intelligence division of the army and has been leading them for some time, he's likely to know more about the strength of their enemies than most people in Liberl. To quote him again:

Colonel Richard: That is why I established the Intelligence Division.

It seems that information is our last bastion of protection against our enemies.

But in order to make the Intelligence Division as effective as possible, I've searched all over Liberl to find some sort of decisive strength.

Something that would invoke another miracle, should disaster strike the nation again.

Some of Estelle's wisdom in response:

Estelle: Th-That doesn't mean we should count on some weirdo ancient weapon thingy!

Estelle: Well, we're bracers, so protecting what's important is our job...

but that doesn't mean being so powerful that everyone else is cowed into submission.

The greatest miracle of all is when people band together, and fight to protect what they love.

What exactly does it mean to protect what's important if not to be powerful enough to enact that protection?

Richard sums up my thoughts pretty well: "Nonsense!" Some more nonsense from Estelle:

Estelle: When we found out what you were planning, we didn't get it...

But it's our will to help people that's led us here. Don't you think that's miracle enough?

Even if it's not... We still believe that there's potential in anyone, heck, everyone.

If another war should break out in the future...

people will do the same thing: they'll work together and do what has to be done to make it through.

I don't know much [she was right about this part at least] about this ancient power, but I DO know that we can count on our fellow Liberlians!

For the entire game Estelle has been a ditz who couldn't tell you where she was or what she was doing, who missed every obvious thing in front of her face (that her father was a war hero, that Kloe was the princess, etc., etc.), but this speech takes the cake. She spews platitudes with unbridled optimism about "working together" despite the fact that a large section of her country are literally trying to overthrow the government at this very moment and she is trying to stop them—which is certainly not a great case for being optimistic about cooperation.

Ultimately what she is saying is: "If a country with 8 times more military power than us invades, we'll just make it work!!! With friendship and free cultural exchange!" Holy shit. My brain is boggled by the stupidity and everyone reacts like she just said something profound. Anyway, that sums up the main impetus of this story. There is some stuff about Ouroboros and puppet-masters behind the scenes who were using Richard to break the seal on the aureole for another reason, which could interesting (though the one member of the group we meet is Pure Evil with no apparent nuance), but it's overshadowed by bad stuff all around it, which brings me to my second issue.

edit- forgot to mention that Richard even has a backup plan in case the aureole is not enough to secure his country's independence: marry the young princess to Erebonia.

(2) The writer has some weird incestuous fantasy that he really wanted to include but make it like totally not real incest tho for real they aren't even related; they met when they were 11 and spent the last 5 year living together as brother and sister with dad but it's totally not incestuous or weird at all okay bigot. I read a little around the internet and saw people saying Joshua / Estelle never even saw themselves as siblings. Here are some excerpts from the script:

Estelle: It's okay. It happened more than 10 years ago. And since then, there's been a new addition to the family.
Professor Alba: Oh, so you mean that boy over there?
Estelle: Yeah, he's like a little brother.

Jill: You've got a hot guy with you all the time, and you're jealous of us living in an all-girl household? I'm playing a tiny violin for you. Like, minuscule in size.
Estelle: Shows what YOU know... Joshua's more like a big brother to me. Us living together is more like a family thing.

Estelle: sigh I always wanted a sweet, lovable little sister like her. INSTEAD OF, might I add, an obnoxious little brother.

Joshua: If you want to be more like a real older sister, you need to get your head out of the clouds every now and then.

Private Wayne: Are you on some kind of hiking date on the highway?
Estelle: Wh-What? A... A d-date?!
Joshua: Ha ha, it's nothing like that. We're brother and sister.

Kloe: I mean, you act like brother and sister.

Cassius: In the meantime, please know that you have my thanks for assisting my son and daughter.

The entirety of the first game treats them like siblings. They both call the same man dad. They reference him as dad multiple times in conversation with each other throughout the game. They call each other brother and sister. Other characters say they act like brother and sister. Their father calls them son and daughter (since they were 11; not like a father in law). Anyone who says Joshua and Estelle didn't act as brother and sister is in denial or is fanboying so hard they forgot what happened in the game.

I would have found it touching for Joshua to find his humanity in someone as pure and innocent as Estelle, but the entire setup is incredibly weird. My wife summed it up by supposing Cassius would return home and Joshua would say, "Welcome back, dad! *wink*"--implying that the "dad" relation is entirely different from when Cassius left his two children there. Goodness. Imagine that as a father: leave your two children alone for a few months and come back to find them making out. Blech!

Despite everything I wrote above, the game does have a some good music tracks (though it re-uses them frequently) and it largely captures the "nostalgia" feeling of early JRPGs. The story heavily dragged it down for me though, as well as the combat and character customization. Playing on nightmare I had to "retry" the last boss a couple times, but it ended up not being too bad. I've also played Trails of Cold Steel I & II, and while the combat is easier given the myriad ways to totally break the game, I preferred it to the slog that was Trails in the Sky.

I'd honestly recommend anyone who wants to play the larger series just read a story summary of the first game and move on, unless you really enjoy talking to every NPC multiple times for small tidbits of information. Haven't played SC, so I can't say if that's more worthy of a play through.

 

[Maxie]

I just finished Trails in the Sky 1 on Nightmare. Played side by side with my wife.

Mediocre combat padded with a ridiculous story that could have been told in 30 minutes instead of 40 hours. Story thoughts:

Spoiler

(1) The good guys are lawful stupid (except maybe Cassius?). The bad guys' motivation is, in the words of the Queen, "that Liberl would become a strong military power, with the colonel ruling from the shadows..." Joshua explains: "Taxes would be levied to fill the war chest... Orbal weaponry would be developed with the express intent of causing havoc on a massive scale... A wide-ranging policy of conscription would be adopted... And no doubt contracting jaeger corps would be made legal, which is not the case at present."

Why do they want to do this? Because Erebonia already invaded Liberl once and literally captured the entire country except the capital city. What turned it around? Advancements in orbal technology (mobile airships) and (apparently) Cassuis' strategic planning. How does the queen want to protect her country?

Queen Alicia: Indeed, the colonel has made very adamant requests that I enact such policies.

I thought that such proposals were born out of genuine love for his country... but I never agreed that they were the right course of action to take.

The Royal Army is not all that protects this land. We have worked hard to maintain treaties with other countries.

Defending a nation goes hand in hand with free cultural exchange and trade with all other nations, to the benefit of all.

Remind me, lady, how would "free culutral exchange" and "trade treaties" have prevented Erebonia from conquering your entire kingdom? This game takes places in S.1202 and the last invasion of Liberl was the hundred days war in S.1192. So it was only 10 years ago, when the very same Queen Alicia sat on the throne. She almost let her country be conquered, until it was saved at the last minute mostly by chance, and she has apparently learned nothing.

When you confront Richard, this is what he says:

Colonel Richard: As you are, no doubt, aware, Liberl is lacking in political power among our neighboring nations.

We have only a fifth of Calvard's population. And we don't even have an eighth of Erebonia's military capacity.

Our sole superior aspect is our technology, and that will not last.

We need some form of real strength to avoid any chance of another invasion attempt.

Given that he founded the intelligence division of the army and has been leading them for some time, he's likely to know more about the strength of their enemies than most people in Liberl. To quote him again:

Colonel Richard: That is why I established the Intelligence Division.

It seems that information is our last bastion of protection against our enemies.

But in order to make the Intelligence Division as effective as possible, I've searched all over Liberl to find some sort of decisive strength.

Something that would invoke another miracle, should disaster strike the nation again.

Some of Estelle's wisdom in response:

Estelle: Th-That doesn't mean we should count on some weirdo ancient weapon thingy!

Estelle: Well, we're bracers, so protecting what's important is our job...

but that doesn't mean being so powerful that everyone else is cowed into submission.

The greatest miracle of all is when people band together, and fight to protect what they love.

What exactly does it mean to protect what's important if not to be powerful enough to enact that protection?

Richard sums up my thoughts pretty well: "Nonsense!" Some more nonsense from Estelle:

Estelle: When we found out what you were planning, we didn't get it...

But it's our will to help people that's led us here. Don't you think that's miracle enough?

Even if it's not... We still believe that there's potential in anyone, heck, everyone.

If another war should break out in the future...

people will do the same thing: they'll work together and do what has to be done to make it through.

I don't know much [she was right about this part at least] about this ancient power, but I DO know that we can count on our fellow Liberlians!

For the entire game Estelle has been a ditz who couldn't tell you where she was or what she was doing, who missed every obvious thing in front of her face (that her father was a war hero, that Kloe was the princess, etc., etc.), but this speech takes the cake. She spews platitudes with unbridled optimism about "working together" despite the fact that a large section of her country are literally trying to overthrow the government at this very moment and she is trying to stop them—which is certainly not a great case for being optimistic about cooperation.

Ultimately what she is saying is: "If a country with 8 times more military power than us invades, we'll just make it work!!! With friendship and free cultural exchange!" Holy shit. My brain is boggled by the stupidity and everyone reacts like she just said something profound. Anyway, that sums up the main impetus of this story. There is some stuff about Ouroboros and puppet-masters behind the scenes who were using Richard to break the seal on the aureole for another reason, which could interesting (though the one member of the group we meet is Pure Evil with no apparent nuance), but it's overshadowed by bad stuff all around it, which brings me to my second issue.

edit- forgot to mention that Richard even has a backup plan in case the aureole is not enough to secure his country's independence: marry the young princess to Erebonia.

(2) The writer has some weird incestuous fantasy that he really wanted to include but make it like totally not real incest tho for real they aren't even related; they met when they were 11 and spent the last 5 year living together as brother and sister with dad but it's totally not incestuous or weird at all okay bigot. I read a little around the internet and saw people saying Joshua / Estelle never even saw themselves as siblings. Here are some excerpts from the script:

Estelle: It's okay. It happened more than 10 years ago. And since then, there's been a new addition to the family.
Professor Alba: Oh, so you mean that boy over there?
Estelle: Yeah, he's like a little brother.

Jill: You've got a hot guy with you all the time, and you're jealous of us living in an all-girl household? I'm playing a tiny violin for you. Like, minuscule in size.
Estelle: Shows what YOU know... Joshua's more like a big brother to me. Us living together is more like a family thing.

Estelle: sigh I always wanted a sweet, lovable little sister like her. INSTEAD OF, might I add, an obnoxious little brother.

Joshua: If you want to be more like a real older sister, you need to get your head out of the clouds every now and then.

Private Wayne: Are you on some kind of hiking date on the highway?
Estelle: Wh-What? A... A d-date?!
Joshua: Ha ha, it's nothing like that. We're brother and sister.

Kloe: I mean, you act like brother and sister.

Cassius: In the meantime, please know that you have my thanks for assisting my son and daughter.

The entirety of the first game treats them like siblings. They both call the same man dad. They reference him as dad multiple times in conversation with each other throughout the game. They call each other brother and sister. Other characters say they act like brother and sister. Their father calls them son and daughter (since they were 11; not like a father in law). Anyone who says Joshua and Estelle didn't act as brother and sister is in denial or is fanboying so hard they forgot what happened in the game.

I would have found it touching for Joshua to find his humanity in someone as pure and innocent as Estelle, but the entire setup is incredibly weird. My wife summed it up by supposing Cassius would return home and Joshua would say, "Welcome back, dad! *wink*"--implying that the "dad" relation is entirely different from when Cassius left his two children there. Goodness. Imagine that as a father: leave your two children alone for a few months and come back to find them making out. Blech!

Despite everything I wrote above, the game does have a some good music tracks (though it re-uses them frequently) and it largely captures the "nostalgia" feeling of early JRPGs. The story heavily dragged it down for me though, as well as the combat and character customization. Playing on nightmare I had to "retry" the last boss a couple times, but it ended up not being too bad. I've also played Trails of Cold Steel I & II, and while the combat is easier given the myriad ways to totally break the game, I preferred it to the slog that was Trails in the Sky.

I'd honestly recommend anyone who wants to play the larger series just read a story summary of the first game and move on, unless you really enjoy talking to every NPC multiple times for small tidbits of information. Haven't played SC, so I can't say if that's more worthy of a play through.

divorce and play the next game with a better wife

 

[Kaivokz]

divorce and play the next game with a better wife

Why? She isn’t the one who arrested all of the patriots and condemned Liberl to a future of free cultural exchange.

 

[Reinhardt]

divorce and play the next game with a better wife

Why? She isn’t the one who arrested all of the patriots and condemned Liberl to a future of free cultural exchange.

play sc

 

[Maxie]

divorce and play the next game with a better wife

Why? She isn’t the one who arrested all of the patriots and condemned Liberl to a future of free cultural exchange.

Hmm I can see your point having played Cold Steel I shudder to think Liberl could be overtaken by the shitty Er*bonia