Icewind Dale The Icewind Dale Series Thread

[Chippy]

I only played a few chapters of IWD 2, so I'm no expert.
But do you try to Hide in Shadows, or in broad daylight?

It doesn't matter really as there should be a pic in there* where you can succeed consistantly for several rounds in broad daylight, and the fail every time as soon as you approach an enemy. I should have hidden these pics behind a spoiler (never really had to upload pics before) but I'll learn if I have to upload anymore.

*Drow Rogue, final pic before Ranger.

 

[Wintermute]

Turn AI off. It's on in all but the two screenshots where hiding succeeds twice.

 

[Melcar]

It's not Invisibility dude.

 

[Melcar]

When I played IWD2 the sneak attacks were behaving strangely - you could only sneak attack each opponent once. That made rogues useless, so maybe just few people even bothered with them.

I think it's once per round or something.

 

[Citizen]

I think it's once per round or something.

Maybe you are right, I didn't bother and just rerolled a party member when I realized that. Still it's a serious hit on their damage output.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Sneak attacks are one per round.

 

[Citizen]

Yes, but the problem in IWD2 was that once you sneak attacked an enemy, you couldn't sneak attack him anymore, until you attack someone else. So you had to hit different targets every round to benefit from sneak attacks.

 

[Chippy]

I think someone else mentioned AI, but here are some pics:

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Ranger succeed, AI off

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Ranger fail, AI off

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Rogue succeed, AI off

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Rogue fail, AI off

Just to recap on replies I've recieved over the years: infravision, day/night, patched to latest, certain enemies seeing through stealth...and I forget the rest.
I think it was Sawyerism, but am going off a vague memory from the original Black Isle boards where he said he wanted to give Stealth more agency. I only play as stealth characters, and because I think stealth is broken/Sawyered, only played this game once. So I would actually be quite grateful if someone could prove me retardred on this. I'd ping Lilura again, but she might think I'm stalking her.

 

[Average Manatee]

I'll break out my original release IWD2 disks and install the game in a windows XP VM to check this stealth bug when I get home. IWD2 is basically a hack job on top of the hack job that the IE engine is, so it's possible something is mucking it up on newer systems. On the other hand it's entirely possible someone fucked up and forgot to have the spot check check the new skill values, or it still bases the check on pre-IWD2 percentile skills.

 

[octavius]

Don't worry, Beamdog will Enhance the problem.

 

[Lacrymas]

Fortunately, they can't. The source code is lost.

 

[Citizen]

Fortunately, they can't. The source code is lost.

They can release the 'enhanced' edition in form of a NWN1 module! And later replace the original with it in all digital stores!

Spoiler

Hope their employees aren't reading codex.

 

[octavius]

Fortunately, they can't. The source code is lost.

First time losing source code can be considered damage control?

 

[Average Manatee]

Yep, I get the same results. You seem to consistently get a round in enemy vision before becoming visible (if the enemy does their spot check the instant you enter their range you'll have several seconds before uncloaking), but as far as I can tell there's no way to beat the spot check.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Huh. Interesting that this bug has never been noticed before. Says a lot about how most people play the IE games (myself included).

And to think, all it took was the spamming of one shitposter.

 

[Average Manatee]

It's only really a problem if you are trying to scout a whole map with a stealth character. Just getting backstabs is effortless with how quickly characters move, even a small amount of time works. Even if it was working, stealth would be really unreliable. If your stealth skill was 19 above an enemy spot and there were 5 enemies (i.e. 90% chance of success), you'd still have a 1-.9^5 = 40% chance of detection every round. Way better to just use invisibility.

Anyone know how stealth worked in BG/IWD? Was it just a % check or did the enemy have a spotting ability that opposed your stealth? I'm assuming it's just a % with modifiers for light or something.

Actually, have you checked whether a blinded thief can successfully stealth near enemies? Maybe it's like Baldur's gate where it's not the enemy seeing you that prevents stealth, it's you seeing the enemy.

 

[Tigranes]

Yeah, as someone who's backstabbed and stealthed countless times in IE games, most of the time you are approaching enemies to backstab, and you're nearly always getting there before that bug takes effect. Otherwise, you're generally flitting in and out of enemy range so you're not triggering it noticeably. I've stealth-explored large chunks of hostile maps before. It just isn't a very noticeable bug in the course of normal play, although of course it's a silly one.

 

[Cael]

When I played IWD2 the sneak attacks were behaving strangely - you could only sneak attack each opponent once. That made rogues useless, so maybe just few people even bothered with them.

That is how it is in 3.x.

You only get to sneak attack when the enemy is flatfooted or flanked by the rogue or if he didn't know you were there. Hiding and invisibility fulfills the third criteria. However, after your first attack, he knows you are there. End of sneak attacks. That is why Improved Invis or a flanking buddy is mandatory for melee rogues if you want a stack of sneak attacks every round.

 

[laclongquan]

Some images proving that Stealth is broken in Icewind Dale 2, and you will fail within 1 round unless you are outside of (all) enemies sight range, or blocked from their line of sight.
Snip

I have to say it's all on you, chap. I AM playing IWD2 at the moment, (literally at Chult), insane (nonHoF) difficulty, average party level is 11.8 and my Deep Gnome Fighter4 Rogue5 scout the whole map just fine.

I hate to sayit but it's probabbly your cheating higher levels that broke the script. IT's estimated that at the end of nonHoF you get to level 16 or 17 at the very highest. I have my own game to say you can stomp your opponent easily with your correct build and underleveled to boot.

Cheat xp to level 30 is breaking the game. Why is it that you can not accep 16 (or 12 as my own suggestion) I never know.

 

[Cael]

Some images proving that Stealth is broken in Icewind Dale 2, and you will fail within 1 round unless you are outside of (all) enemies sight range, or blocked from their line of sight.
Snip

I have to say it's all on you, chap. I AM playing IWD2 at the moment, (literally at Chult), insane (nonHoF) difficulty, average party level is 11.8 and my Deep Gnome Fighter4 Rogue5 scout the whole map just fine.

I hate to sayit but it's probabbly your cheating higher levels that broke the script. IT's estimated that at the end of nonHoF you get to level 16 or 17 at the very highest. I have my own game to say you can stomp your opponent easily with your correct build and underleveled to boot.

Cheat xp to level 30 is breaking the game. Why is it that you can not accep 16 (or 12 as my own suggestion) I never know.

I am not sure about that. IWD2 is designed to go up to L30 in HOF mode, so you should be able to get up there on skills and stuff without the game going haywire.

 

[Average Manatee]

Maybe it's only certain enemies? I only tested intro goblins. Infinity Engine games CAN break a lot of rules depending on how enemies are scripted.

I doubt it's a problem with levels being too high. I tested both level 1 and level 10ish characters.

laclongquan upload your save.

 

[Chippy]

Some images proving that Stealth is broken in Icewind Dale 2, and you will fail within 1 round unless you are outside of (all) enemies sight range, or blocked from their line of sight.
Snip

I have to say it's all on you, chap. I AM playing IWD2 at the moment, (literally at Chult), insane (nonHoF) difficulty, average party level is 11.8 and my Deep Gnome Fighter4 Rogue5 scout the whole map just fine.

I hate to sayit but it's probabbly your cheating higher levels that broke the script. IT's estimated that at the end of nonHoF you get to level 16 or 17 at the very highest. I have my own game to say you can stomp your opponent easily with your correct build and underleveled to boot.

Cheat xp to level 30 is breaking the game. Why is it that you can not accep 16 (or 12 as my own suggestion) I never know.

I'm renovating a house atm, so PC access limited. I will test this theory (I do remember playing the game properly and going up in levels, and then testing it with a cheat to see if hide and move silently was underlevelled). You may be right - but just a thought for the moment: are you saying its the character level that breaks the hide script? Because if you look at the first 2 pics for the Ranger character sheet, I deliberately levelled him only to 20 ranks in stealth & MS.

 

[Chippy]

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Ranger level 14, Hide & MS: Rank 15
Rogue level 12, Hide & MS: Rank 20

I would very much like to believe that it is just broken in the starting map, or that using cheats breaks the script, or whatever - but I do remember stealth being broken throughout the game without using cheats. Unless I'm just trolling everyone and doing this for fun (which I'm not) is it really possibly that just XP'ing in a few characters to the start level and ranking them up is somehow different from playing the game?.
Care to weigh in O Lilura Dungeon Master of yore? It takes less than 20 min to install the game, get the console going and test my theory on the first enemies of the map. Unless the Codex is conspiring to make out this is just a problem unique to me...because that would actually be some serious trolling.

 

[Chippy]

Yep, I get the same results. You seem to consistently get a round in enemy vision before becoming visible (if the enemy does their spot check the instant you enter their range you'll have several seconds before uncloaking), but as far as I can tell there's no way to beat the spot check.

AHA!!! I AM VINDICATED!!!!
Wish I had noticed this post before I wasted another 30 min spamming pics and stalking err, pinging Lilura.
So... to think that after all these years I am the only person within the RPG community to have noticed this... ya Grognards. All this time I was so confused.

 

[laclongquan]

Strange! You are probabbly the only one in these recent years to notice this stealth bug. Even sorcerers forum's diehard IWD2 players dont seem to notice it.