Icewind Dale The Icewind Dale Series Thread

[Zboj Lamignat]

I started IWD2 for the first time yesterday. Never played it before. I don't know if it's because Sawyer took over, but it looks like everything went downhill there. The worst UI, D&D 3rd ed feels convoluted (I'm not used to it I guess), Widescreen resolutions cause problems apparently, and one guide says there is a section which can only be passed if you play at 800x600. We'll see if it's true.

It's a poor game after a very promising start. You'll get bored and quit soon. Famous ice temple meme and all.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

goblins > yetis and shades > skeletons > veerbeegs > lizardmen > yuan ti
The only variance are the priests thrown here and there.

Mummies, spectral beings, trolls, dens of clerics, an Ice maiden, spiders, bugs, orcs, rats, wolves, carrion crawlers, zombies, mad mages, adventuring parties, wights, and jeez, we're still in the early stages of the game. And there's only about 5 or 6 veerbeegs in the entire fucking game, LMAO.

 

[Average Manatee]

Are rangers even "shit" in IWD? IIRC they got some house-ruled in +1 attack if using a sword and not using a shield which basically negates their biggest penalty vs. fighters (not getting rank 5 proficiency). You'll miss out on the shield, but if you already have 3+ people with maximized AC sucking up all the good ones then a slightly softer character with higher damage makes sense. If anything Paladin more rightly deserves the "shit" rating since they have nothing big to make up for their damage gap until they get their specific weapon 20 mins before the game ends.

For a potential Ranger/Cleric vs. Fighter/Cleric comparison, both sides miss out on their respective advantage (+1 attack and 5 proficiency), meaning that Ranger/Cleric is pretty much straight superior since you're effectively getting everything of Fighter/Cleric/Druid/Ranger IIRC. Only contender is a dual class, which can hit 5 proficiency.

Also if you are actually powergaming you don't even use bows, you use slings/throwing axes/etc and abuse 18+ strength bonus. If you think straight fighters are OP, wait till you see a fighter/cleric with Draw On Holy Might (25 str/dex/con) flinging stones at mach 3 with +7 to hit/+14 to damage. Then throw in a mage class with tenser's transformation to make it sillier.

Druids and bards, OK they are kind of lame. But that's basically it, and even then I'd say a bard is decent in a fighter-heavy party to fill in for the fighter/thief.

 

[Tigranes]

They may not be optimal, but they do just fine, because shooting everything in the face is the #1 path to victory in IWD, even if you don't go for the above STR bonus stuff - just by having Sseth they'd get 80% of party kills.

 

[McPlusle]

Are rangers even "shit" in IWD? IIRC they got some house-ruled in +1 attack if using a sword and not using a shield which basically negates their biggest penalty vs. fighters (not getting rank 5 proficiency). You'll miss out on the shield, but if you already have 3+ people with maximized AC sucking up all the good ones then a slightly softer character with higher damage makes sense. If anything Paladin more rightly deserves the "shit" rating since they have nothing big to make up for their damage gap until they get their specific weapon 20 mins before the game ends.

If you have EE/IWD-in-BG2/some other means of enabling class kits then you can use archers which are my favorite class kit ever.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Archer kit is broken for BG1/IWD - it would be cool for BG2, but the bows get obsolete there pretty quickly. Like Manatee said, slings with cleric buffs are ridiculous.

As for paladin, the only redeemable quality I can think of is instant cast of lay on hands, which can be a life saver sometimes. I think devs were probably aware of his inferiority, hence throwing uber swords in each game.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Paladins get cleric spell casting up to spell lvl 6 in IWD 1&2, hardly useless? DUHM STR 25 if you're high enough level. Anti Magic Shell. Heal. Righteous Magic?

 

[Piotrovitz]

Fair enough, but this is what you usually take F/C for.

Would be cool though if Pallys would have some more unique abilities, not attainable through any spells.

 

[Cael]

Paladins get cleric spell casting up to spell lvl 6 in IWD 1&2, hardly useless? DUHM STR 25 if you're high enough level. Anti Magic Shell. Heal. Righteous Magic?

For IWD2, you won't get that unless you play the HoW mode. Normal gameplay ends about level 16. You have to be in Epic levels to get L5 and L6 spellcasting for Paladins.

 

[Average Manatee]

Paladins get cleric spell casting up to spell lvl 6 in IWD 1&2, hardly useless? DUHM STR 25 if you're high enough level. Anti Magic Shell. Heal. Righteous Magic?

Certainly not useless, but the weakest of the three (note the quotation marks around the word "shit", it wasn't meant to be taken literally). Paladins take forever to get any of this stuff. Fighter/Cleric or Ranger/Cleric are strictly superior.

How does stuff like DUHM even scale once you get it as a Paladin? It should take literally forever to get you 25s. But I'm sure the IE games', uhh, "lazy" interpretation of AD&D could cause interesting things to happen.

Would be cool though if Pallys would have some more unique abilities, not attainable through any spells.

*cough* inquisitor *cough*

Not that I'm encouraging anyone to play the EEs.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Would be cool though if Pallys would have some more unique abilities, not attainable through any spells.

*cough* inquisitor *cough*

True sight and dispel are regular spells - I meant something unique and exclusive for the class, like instant cast heal lay on hands.

 

[Cael]

Would be cool though if Pallys would have some more unique abilities, not attainable through any spells.

*cough* inquisitor *cough*

True sight and dispel are regular spells - I meant something unique and exclusive for the class, like instant cast heal lay on hands.

Double strength dispel with no cap is not on any spell list.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Ok, you got me here.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I abandoned my IWD playthrough last July when my HDD and one memory chip both broke due to a power outage. Last week I found the time one evening, connected the old HDD back and salvaged two important items:

1) The complete collection of the music which I ripped from "Tuxedo Junction", a Jazz/Big Band radio's website which is no longer online.
2) All my IWD savegames!

I had already made it to Lower Dorn, so it was quite a valuable recovery. I finished the campaign yesterday, the final boss took me three tries on Core Rules. It has been over 10 years since I've last felt this - you finish a game, and you want to start over immediately. My wife, deeply sorry for having wasted 200 hours on D:OS2 and currently playing BG2 (in the same ballpark, yet on the way to the true faith), was immediately hyped from seeing IWD's intro movie and has vowed to start an IWD campaign as soon as she is done with BG2.

I'm trying to analyze what makes IWD provoke such an immediate connection.

Meanwhile, any recommendations for an IWD2 party composition?

 

[Cael]

Meanwhile, any recommendations for an IWD2 party composition?

First off, be warned that it is a COMPLETELY different system altogether.

Secondly, for maximum effectiveness:
1 Paladin of Ilmater/Cleric of Ilmater (large blades)
1 Cleric of Bane (concentrate on Enchantment/Domination/Mind type spells) (make him LN)
1 Bard (face of the party)
1 Wizard
1 Sorceror
1 Fighter 4/Cleric of Tempus (axe user)

All Drow for LA shenannigans.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

It has been over 10 years since I've last felt this - you finish a game, and you want to start over immediately.

Meanwhile, any recommendations for an IWD2 party composition?

+

First off, be warned that it is a COMPLETELY different system altogether.

I just had that with Blackguards. I completed Blackguards and immediately wanted to go again, but there was Blackguards 2 to consider. So I started 2 and, oh my, it's a completely different game. Still liking it, but its not what I got from the first one.

For IDW2, my go-to party would be 2 fighters (one human paladin, one Dwarf fighter, can't remember which variety of each though), two clerics (ones with identify and one with haste), Ranger (arrows) and a rogue (can't remember which variety). Though you'll probably want an arcane class just because that's what people do in these games, to which I guess the rouge would be the drop-out if that's the case. IMO, of course.

Edit: not sure I'd recommend dualing clerics, they come into their own mostly in the very high tiers of their spells, like spell level 8+

 

[Cael]

It has been over 10 years since I've last felt this - you finish a game, and you want to start over immediately.

Meanwhile, any recommendations for an IWD2 party composition?

+

First off, be warned that it is a COMPLETELY different system altogether.

I just had that with Blackguards. I completed Blackguards and immediately wanted to go again, but there was Blackguards 2 to consider. So I started 2 and, oh my, it's a completely different game. Still liking it, but its not what I got from the first one.

For IDW2, my go-to party would be 2 fighters (one human paladin, one Dwarf fighter, can't remember which variety of each though), two clerics (ones with identify and one with haste), Ranger (arrows) and a rogue (can't remember which variety). Though you'll probably want an arcane class just because that's what people do in these games, to which I guess the rouge would be the drop-out if that's the case. IMO, of course.

Edit: not sure I'd recommend dualing clerics, they come into their own mostly in the very high tiers of their spells, like spell level 8+

The dualing is because they are primary fighters, not clerics. The cleric of Bane is the only primary cleric. I basically replaced your two fighters with two fighter/clerics

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

The dualing is because they are primary fighters, not clerics. The cleric of Bane is the only primary cleric. I basically replaced your two fighters with two fighter/clerics

I rarely use my clerics for fighting, they're usually too busy spellcasting, but their advantage over wizards is that they can withstand lots of blows and take lots of agro in an emergency quite efficiently, or chip in with a few good hits in the odd circumstances when that's required. All I see with dualing is exchanging a slower run to Symbol spells in exchange for some extra THAC0, to which that THAC0 isn't necessarily needed while Symbol spells are a joy to behold.

 

[Cael]

The dualing is because they are primary fighters, not clerics. The cleric of Bane is the only primary cleric. I basically replaced your two fighters with two fighter/clerics

I rarely use my clerics for fighting, they're usually too bust spellcasting, but their advantage over wizards is that they can withstand lots of blows and take lots of agro in an emergency quite efficiently, or chip in with a few good hit in the odd circumstances when that's required. All I see with dualing is exchanging a slower run to Symbol spells in exchange for some extra THAC0, to which that THAC0 isn't necessarily needed while Symbol spells are a joy to behold.

If that is the case, you don't need Fighters in your line-up either but you have them.

The point is that the dualled clerics are not there to be clerics. They are there to be Fighters with healing, buffing and a few spells on the side.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

If that is the case, you don't need Fighters in your line-up either but you have them.

lol wot.

The point is that the dualled clerics are not there to be clerics. They are there to be Fighters with healing, buffing and a few spells on the side.

You'll also dramatically reduce your turning skill, slow your pace to full heals, and, of course, raise dead and resurrection. For what? To kill monsters slightly quicker that would have gone down anyway. Its like the hare and the tortoise, you're exchanging early speed for long-term domination. IWD2 isn't a sprint, it's a marathon.

 

[Lilura]

If you rely on turning, healing and raising, you are playing IWD2 wrong.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

If you rely on turning, healing and raising, you are playing IWD2 wrong.

Rely? lol, wot.

 

[Andhaira]

Just blast everything with fireballs and minute metors, send in your summons and fighters to mop up; rest rinse and repeat.

 

[Cael]

You'll also dramatically reduce your turning skill, slow your pace to full heals, and, of course, raise dead and resurrection. For what? To kill monsters slightly quicker that would have gone down anyway. Its like the hare and the tortoise, you're exchanging early speed for long-term domination. IWD2 isn't a sprint, it's a marathon.

I am seriously questioning your intelligence. You are still trying to compare the fighter/clerics with full clerics when I have told you TWICE ALREADY that that is NOT what they are there for.

1. Go look at the team you posted.
2. See the 2 fighter types you included in your squad? The paladin and the dwarven fighter?
3. Compare that with my squad.
4. See where I do NOT have a full paladin or fighter?

Now, let's see if you are intelligent enough to make the connection.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

4. See where I do NOT have a full paladin or fighter?

I have no idea at all why you'd want a Paladin dualed with a Cleric. You haven't said and the combo makes zero logical sense. Your party already has a pure cleric and another dualed cleric and the Paladin already has cool buffs of their own, you just seem to be stunting both by dualing in that way, stunting the Paladin's save throw accumulation and the cleric's spell accumulation. A Paladin wont be a better fighter for being dualed with a cleric. Like most other people you talk to in these kind of discussions, my reaction to you're posts is just ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . Maybe if you're posts contained more detail and less frothing you'd have more enjoyable exchanges?