Icewind Dale The Icewind Dale Series Thread

[hell bovine]

Do you have that special hammer from the smith in Kuldahar? I don't think there are any other strategies to golems than hit&run. How does hitting them from stealth work? BG has a +4 bonus to thaco, but I have no idea how it works in IWD. Golems should be immune to backstabs, but perhaps you'd still get the bonus (assuming it's there).

Malavon can be cheesed with invisibility. I once had a character go invisible next to him, after he cast his cloud spell, and he just remained there taking damage.

 

[octavius]

I'm sure Uncle Gerhard and his Create Turnip Golem ability would have turned the battle.

 

[Tigranes]

Conlan's Hammer & other weapons can help strike the Golems, but overall the Jansens' THAC0 aren't high enough to land more than one hit per round on average (from the entire party). And because not everyone shares Ludwig's AC, every round they spend swinging something is a round where they have a 50>% chance of instadeath. Hence my point on tedium: I could pause every milisecond moving them in and out of Golem range and striking, because I don't have enough Summon scrolls and everything I can summon dies in one hit anyway.

I have saves before & after, but it's likely that I'll move on. Let's say the Jansens managed to channel a bit of distant cousin Jan, and talk the Golems to an untimely demise.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

So did you edit the golems out the game?

 

[hell bovine]

Conlan's Hammer & other weapons can help strike the Golems, but overall the Jansens' THAC0 aren't high enough to land more than one hit per round on average (from the entire party). And because not everyone shares Ludwig's AC, every round they spend swinging something is a round where they have a 50>% chance of instadeath. Hence my point on tedium: I could pause every milisecond moving them in and out of Golem range and striking, because I don't have enough Summon scrolls and everything I can summon dies in one hit anyway.

I have saves before & after, but it's likely that I'll move on. Let's say the Jansens managed to channel a bit of distant cousin Jan, and talk the Golems to an untimely demise.

Unfinished business for IWD has a component that lets you "deactivate" the golems. Apparently there is some leftover dialogue (not implemented in the game, but visible in near infinity), which indicates this was supposed to be an option.

 

[Sigourn]

Ugh, this final battle against the Luremaster. Really shitty you can't buy arrows once you've made it past the 3rd dungeon floor, I barely have one stack and a half of fire arrows no less... So much gold to spend on shit, no vendors to spend it on.

Not many ideas on how to tackle this sucker with my current party. Beginning the fight (Prayer, Defense Harmony), my AC, HP and class:

- Geralt: -19, 126 HP, Lvl 12 Ranger
- Zoltan: -9, 98 HP, Lvl 14 Fighter
- Shani: -9, 51 HP, Lvl 14 Cleric

They are my three damage dealers. Shani is pretty much backup and is killed quickly if enemies focus on her. Then we have:

- Jaskier: -2, 64 HP, Lvl 16 Bard
- Yennefer: -4, 67 HP, Lvl 16 Thief
- Triss: -3, 33 HP, Lvl 13 Mage

Jaskier is useless. No arrows = no damage. Yennefer somewhat useless. Triss can deal decent spell damage. Maybe I should focus getting as many AOE attacks as possible (have Fireballs, a wand for fireballs, and Cone of Cold).

EDIT: Nevermind, deleted my saves and returned to my pre-HoW backups because what point is there in beating the expansion if it would take me 1/20 tries to do so. Hardly what I would call "winning".

I'll simply do OC, import final party to HoW, and then import HoW final party to HoW once again and do Trials of the Luremaster.

 

[Tigranes]

"I couldn't beat the game with the party I chose to make so I cheated legally to win, haha combat isnt tactical!!!"

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Indeed, I finished the game many times, but never done this kind of shit. I only briefly added a thief during one play (to steal Conlan's hammer) but I wouldn't think of so drastically modifying my party just before the final fight. It would sort of "invalidate" my whole playthrough, I'd hate that. To each their own I guess.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

What an amazing review.

Just beat the final boss. After multitudes of failures, pretty shitty game design decisions and the ability to cheese legally at my hand, I simply deleted Zoltan, Jaskier and Yennefer and rebuilt my party to have 4 Geralts, 1 Shani and 1 Triss. Made quick work of the boss on my first try, so much for "tactical" combat.

Overall score: 5/10, just as Baldur's Gate. Pretty mediocre RPG with pretty artstyle and decent "writing".

Quite the most glorious garbled nonsense. Saldavor Dali should convert it into a painting.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Just beat the final boss. After multitudes of failures, pretty shitty game design decisions and the ability to cheese legally at my hand, I simply deleted Zoltan, Jaskier and Yennefer and rebuilt my party to have 4 Geralts, 1 Shani and 1 Triss. Made quick work of the boss on my first try, so much for "tactical" combat.

Overall score: 5/10, just as Baldur's Gate. Pretty mediocre RPG with pretty artstyle and decent "writing".

So, you are a shit player, but the game is bad because it's not tactical... which for you is... Gothic combat? Or, what, winning in one shot?

You're definitely Sawyer's target audience, since he thought IWD is unplayable for anyone who didn't read the D&D source books cover to cover.

Like I told you before, you don't actually like RPGs. Go play other games. Or kill yourself.

 

[Sigourn]

So, you are a shit player

Nah, just had a shit party with shit equipment, so I fixed that. And thank God, because following my RPG guidelines: if you can't consistently beat a boss, then you may as well cheat, because 1 win out of 20 battles isn't "winning". It's simply abusing reloading like a champ.

but the game is bad because it's not tactical... which for you is... Gothic combat?

Gothic combat is not tactical, it's simply fun and much better than anything to be found in the Infinity Engine games. :russiastronk:

Like I told you before, you don't actually like RPGs. Go play other games. Or kill yourself.

Or maybe I don't like shit RPGs like Icewind Dale. :D

EDIT: I still have my character saves, so anyone is free to reach the end boss, replace their party with mine, and beat him "legitimately" as I'm very interested in seeing what a good player can do. I'm not afraid to admit I'm not good at the game.
EDIT 2: It's not sarcasm. Seeing someone beat the game with my party would give me newfound appreciation for the game. I'm simply burned out on the unskippable 1 minute cutscene (even when speeding it up) and the annoying dicerolls that can fuck you up like *this*.

 

[agris]

Post your save just before the fight, with your characters.

 

[Sigourn]

Post your save just before the fight, with your characters.

I'm running these mods:

1. One Pixel Productions Animation Fixes (Install each option separately, else you will get an error.)
2. The IWD Fixpack
3. One Pixel Productions High Quality Music
4. Improved BAMs
5. One Pixel Productions
6. The Tweaks Anthology

I don't know which ones actually make a difference. Of the Tweaks, I installed nothing that would alter the balance or facilitate the game in any way or form. I presume you could safely install only the Animation Fixes and the Fixpack. Anyhow, the files: click!

The characters in question should be the ones named IWD1, IWD2, IWD3 etc. The saves I'm using are the ones called Chapter 6 and Chapter 6 Backup. The one named Chapter 7 is the new save I made with 4 Geralts.

 

[agris]

Sigourn post your weidu.log, it’s in the same folder as iwd.exe

 

[Sigourn]

Sigourn post your weidu.log, it’s in the same folder as iwd.exe

// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
~1PP_IWD_FIXES/1PP_IWD_FIXES.TP2~ #0 #0 // 1ppv: Fix character attack animation sounds in TotLM
~1PP_IWD_FIXES/1PP_IWD_FIXES.TP2~ #0 #1 // 1ppv: Fix combat animation bug (enable combat stance animations)
~1PP_IWD_FIXES/1PP_IWD_FIXES.TP2~ #0 #2 // 1ppv: Use BG1/IWD character animations
~IWDFIXPACK/SETUP-IWDFIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #0 // Assorted Fixes: v6
~IWDFIXPACK/SETUP-IWDFIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #100 // Game Text Update: v6
~1PP_HQ_MUSIC_IWD/1PP_HQ_MUSIC_IWD.TP2~ #0 #0 // 1pp: High quality music for IWD HoW/TotLM
~IMPROVEDBAMS/IMPROVEDBAMS.TP2~ #0 #0 // Improved Inventory BAMs
~1PP/1PP.TP2~ #0 #103 // 1ppv4: Extended palette entries -> Full install (recommended)
~1PP/1PP.TP2~ #0 #105 // 1ppv4: Avatar fixes
~1PP/1PP.TP2~ #0 #113 // 1ppv4: Smart Avatar & Armour Switching
~1PP/1PP.TP2~ #0 #114 // 1ppv4: Softer Spell Effects
~1PP/1PP.TP2~ #0 #200 // 1ppv4: Core content patches
~1PP/1PP.TP2~ #0 #203 // 1ppv4: Restored flame sword animations
~1PP/1PP.TP2~ #0 #401 // 1ppv4: Improved projectile effects
~1PP/1PP.TP2~ #0 #301 // 1ppv4: Miscellaneous content fixes
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #191 // Use Character Colors Instead of Item Colors -> For non-magical shields and helmets: v4
~DDRAWFIX/DDRAWFIX.TP2~ #0 #0 // DDrawFix -> Force DirectDraw Emulation: v1.0

I'm playing on Core Rules.

Please record the fight. I want to see my team do what I couldn't.

 

[agris]

Give me a few days, but assuming the old ddraw renderer doesn’t give me any problems, it won’t take longer.

 

[Sigourn]

Give me a few days, but assuming the old ddraw renderer doesn’t give me any problems, it won’t take longer.

I just decided to give it another go now... I was THIS close to beating him (I think). The images don't show it, but he was going from Badly Injured to Almost Dead and remained like that until I was finally left with just Triss, and died. On hindsight, looking at my inventory, there were a couple of things I could have done, but didn't do:

- Summon the Barbarians with the horn.
- Use the White Bishop to have a bishop that heals my party (would have been a great ally).
- Use the Blur Deck on Geralt.
- HAVE REMOVE PARALYSIS. For some stupid I reason I didn't have this (probably I didn't notice he could Hold my characters). As the image on the bttom shows, Geralt was Holded and it was there that I knew I had basically lost.
- Use the seven Arrows of Piercing left in my inventory. (Killing that faggot Drow was the worst decision I made in my playthrough, I was about to restock before leaving Dorn's Deep when I realized he was dead...)
- Somewhat improvised tactic: have one character play bait, and then have Zoltan and Geralt deal damage as the boss gives chase. It's what I used late in the fight.

What I did this time different than yesterday was micromanage almost everything, cast some useful spells I didn't use before, and also lookout for his teleportation (which apparently damages you as he is about to teleport). Then again, dicerolls have a play in it, and I could have just easily lost.

I'm going to give it a few more tries, see if I can finally kill the fucker.

 

[Sigourn]

IT'S OVER!!!!!!!!!

Finally over. And what's best, I didn't lose a single party member in the fight.

- Like in my last attempt, I had everyone drink an Oil of Speed once they were dispelled.
- Everyone ran for the southern section of the map, micromanaged to avoid the traps on the floor.
- Unlike last time, I had Zoltan head left (for one of the golems) and Geralt head right (for the other golem).
- As they were closing in on my southern party, I had that party move counter-clockwise around the edges of the map, while Zoltan and Geralt attempted each to destroy one Golem. Since following and attacking is hard, I simply had both of them approach my party and attack one golem from the front, killing him.
- Then the demon dude simply used his fire powers and killed one of his own golems.
- Now I had everyone run counterclockwise towards the left section of the map, while demon dude followed the same trail (albeit much more slowly).
- Shani and Triss casted Protection from Evil and Hope. Not much more time to cast spells before the demon was on us, so I sent Geralt and Zoltan to fight him.
- Jaskier summoned the barbarians. As it turns out, they were useless in combat (they couldn't hurt the demon, but at least they slowed down his movement).
- When Geralt was seriously injured, I had him return to the left section of the map (a few steps away) and drink one of those purple health potions while Shani casted Cure Serious Wounds. He also had to cure Disease with a potion, and poison was kind of annoying at times.
- After that, he returned to join Zoltan. Then we began the tactic I mentioned earlier about having one character (Geralt) run while another (Zoltan) attacked the demon. This was towards the eastern and eventually southern section of the map.
- As Geralt was wounded, I had him quickly sprint towards the bottom while Shani did the same, in order to heal him completely. Zoltan saved the day by getting in the way of Geralt and the demon, halting him JUST enough for Shani to cure Geralt.
- Then I had Geralt and Zoltan turn on the demon again while Shani summoned the Bishop.
- I'm pretty sure the Bishop wasn't even cast when the demon finally fell.

Overall, I'd say it was a combination of luck (the demon following just the guy he had to follow, and not bitching around with his fire spells). I think he teleported just once in the entire fight (near the beginning, while one golem was still alive). At least I can now said I beat the game legitimately. It feels weird having beaten the demon in just two attempts today. One, which made me realize it was possible to beat him. Another, to implement some ideas based on the first attempt.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Hi, sorry for the delay, had to get out, set up my laptop, install IWD and HOW, find the save file to put the saves into, learn all the characters, use a couple of loads to rejog my memory of the fight, take screenies, and write this reply:

Press pause immediately and have everyone sup a haste potion. get the 4 supplementary characters to the back of the room, careful not to tread on the traps, have Dwarf attack one Iron Golem as he's the one with the crushing weapon, use the other fighter, Geralt to run the other two around:

Do this until the dwarf has killed the two golems (he might need healing via potions or the cleric if he gets hit too much, in this run he didn't:

Then you can concentrate the two fighters on Belly Fat. The mage can cast haste if it runs out and the cleric should cast prot from fire on both before they go in. Belly is only really a fire user. Again, use cleric and potions for running away and healing when needed & keep moving your spares around as Belly Fat phases around the room:

And, by the skin of your teeth, and this is where reloads might come into play, he goes down with the two guys on about 10hp left each:

In this fight your 3rd character was not used at all. I don't even know what he was. The mage is only good for recasting haste if needed. The thief is only good at the first load for establishing where the traps are (stand still at start and search for traps and not care if everyone dies). The cleric is just for healing and the fire prot spell.

It's all about the two fighters, constantly moving people around (careful to always avoid the unmoveable traps) and being ready to retreat and reheal at any moment. Some aggro management is sometimes needed. You can't take your eye off the ball for a moment, but it's simplicity itself once the main method of battle has been worked out (like a lot of end-boss routines in computer games).

Edit:

 

[agris]

Sigourn glad my prodding made you break out of your mediocrity, and good work IncendiaryDevice!

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

I'm simply burned out on the unskippable 1 minute cutscene

I missed this edit to your post. Of all the things you've said, this is actually a decent bit of criticism hidden amongst the frothing. That cutscene is indeed the most annoying cutscene, possibly the most annoying in all the IE games. When they made the EE I hope to god they made it all skippable, cos if not, there's not much else in the game which really needs desperately improving and it would be laughable if they left that out.

 

[Sigourn]

I'm simply burned out on the unskippable 1 minute cutscene

I missed this edit to your post. Of all the things you've said, this is actually a decent bit of criticism hidden amongst the frothing. That cutscene is indeed the most annoying cutscene, possibly the most annoying in all the IE games. When they made the EE I hope to god they made it all skippable, cos if not, there's not much else in the game which really needs desperately improving and it would be laughable if they left that out.

I absolutely hate unskippable cutscenes, but nothing bothers me most than an unskippable cutscene right before a difficult fight. This is also why I disliked many Dark Souls boss fights: there may be no cutscene, but you still have to run through many enemies just to get to the boss. It's not even worth it to attempt to defeat them (as it is wasted time if the boss ended up killing you), so why even have them there...?

If I was a game designer, two major decisions I would take are:

- Make every cutscene skippable. If it can't be done because of engine-limitations (as I suspect was the case with the IE games), then:
- Autosave the game at the end of an unskippable cutscene, in a new slot, and if the player dies and RELOADS then the game begins on pause. None of that "you reload the game, but as it starts loading you are already being attacked by enemies" (this happened in The Witcher).

Additionally it is a shame because it feels weird skipping dialogue like a madman just to get to the fight. It doesn't feel as satisfying and listening to the entire dialogue and winning the fight.

 

[Tigranes]

To his credit, he whined, then went back and tried again, and in the process, learned something about the game. If you don't notice one of your party members are paralysed, then I wouldn't say it's "luck". That's the point of having challenging fights, so that you learn to play more intelligently.

Hoping to return to the Jansens in the weekend.

 

[Sigourn]

To his credit, he whined, then went back and tried again, and in the process, learned something about the game. If you don't notice one of your party members are paralysed, then I wouldn't say it's "luck". That's the point of having challenging fights, so that you learn to play more intelligently.

Hoping to return to the Jansens in the weekend.

Then again, one could argue that I was lucky he didn't paralyze Geralt this time. As much as I could have dispelled him, having the demon beat him up repeatedly (no chance to evade his attacks, except extremely lucky critical misses) wasn't going to be a good thing, dispell or not.

 

[ga♥]

Why you untermenschen don't set-up a Let's play IWDII insted.
I have problems with resolution, dxwrapper and shiaaat and can't play it atm (and I don't have time to tinker about it).