The Elder Scrolls Online

[Hoaxmetal]

Well you have to work for that

tag.

 

[Akratus]

I'm not bothered at all. Considering I was expecting something completely draconian, this is a nice change of pace. It's lenient compared to most other MMOs.

THE ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE
". . It's not completely draconian." 10/10 GOTY

 

[Zewp]

lol

at least they're not going to charge us for hotbars, to sprint or to hide our helmets. I'm so used to being shafted to hell and back in 'free' to play MMOs.

 

[taxalot]

Oh nice, I guess I'll be able to complete the game that way.

 

[Xenich]

The relationship gamer's have with the industry these days reminds me of a battered woman defending her abuser. It is a constant denial and excuse to the reality of the situation. Instead of rejecting the constant crap being shoveled, excuses are made and the attitude of "well, at least they aren't doing XYZ" or "at least it isn't as bad as..."

It really is sad how we have just settled for complete shit these days.

 

[Gerrard]

:australia:

 

[Metro]

F2P in three months. Took longer to crash and burn than I thought.

I meant three weeks.

 

[Zewp]

The relationship gamer's have with the industry these days reminds me of a battered woman defending her abuser. It is a constant denial and excuse to the reality of the situation. Instead of rejecting the constant crap being shoveled, excuses are made and the attitude of "well, at least they aren't doing XYZ" or "at least it isn't as bad as..."

It really is sad how we have just settled for complete shit these days.

Hey, if that's how you feel then that's how you feel. Nothing I could say could change that.

As for me, i really don't see anything abusive about this F2P model.

 

[Sykar]

Totally ignored that game. How shit is it?

 

[Kane]

Totally ignored that game. How shit is it?

very, a solid 9/10 on the uninspired-wow-clone-and-shit-that-game-is-boring-already scale

 

[Sykar]

very, a solid 9/10 on the uninspired-wow-clone-and-shit-that-game-is-boring-already scale

What saves it from a perfect shit score?

 

[Kane]

What saves it from a perfect shit score?

actually being sold as a world of warcraft expansion

 

[Sykar]

actually being sold as a world of warcraft expansion

Well since it seems to be "F2P" soon I guess that will fall flat as well soon. Time for perfect shit score?

 

[Kane]

Well since it seems to be "F2P" soon I guess that will fall flat as well soon. Time for perfect shit score?

I will reevaluate the score once the update hits. I pride myself on thoroughly testing nuMMO uh experiences before giving them my final verdict.

 

[Sykar]

I will reevaluate the score once the update hits. I pride myself on thoroughly testing nuMMO uh experiences before giving them my final verdict.

Good man!

 

[bozia2012]

Totally ignored that game. How shit is it?

It's super bland, but if you have a boner for sieges - you might want to check it out.

 

[Zewp]

The move to F2P probably means it won't go away anytime soon. All the TES tards will probably just jump all over it now.

 

[Zewp]

Totally ignored that game. How shit is it?

It's standard MMO fare, really. Not bad, not good. Just mediocre. You can probably get more fun out of WoW.

 

[Xenich]

Hey, if that's how you feel then that's how you feel. Nothing I could say could change that.

As for me, i really don't see anything abusive about this F2P model.

That is kind of the problem these days. We don't object to shit, we rationalize how it isn't "that bad" of shit. As long as people keep paying for it, they will keep shoveling it.

 

[Sykar]

That is kind of the problem these days. We don't object to shit, we rationalize how it isn't "that bad" of shit. As long as people keep paying for it, they will keep shoveling it.

There are big differences between games which use a "F2P" model. Some give you so little access and want you to pay for anything minor (SWTOR). Others give you most of the game free and only charge for cosmetics (Path of Exile, Marvel Heroes). Many fall somewhere inbetween. I prefer F2P over subscription based model since I can decide what exactly I pay for. If a game is too obnoxiously hidden behind a pay wall I simply do not play it. F2P is also nice to try out a game and see if I want to waste time and money on it or not. Subscription based games usually cost not only money for the subscription but almost always want money for expansions too. Shit, WoW also makes good money from micro transactions nowadays so you have both there.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Apparently the upcoming patch is the last update until well after the console versions are released. This is one of the problems with this kind of business model, development of major content updates is mothballed and everything is geared towards selling junk in the cash store

 

[Xenich]

There are big differences between games which use a "F2P" model. Some give you so little access and want you to pay for anything minor (SWTOR). Others give you most of the game free and only charge for cosmetics (Path of Exile, Marvel Heroes). Many fall somewhere inbetween. I prefer F2P over subscription based model since I can decide what exactly I pay for. If a game is too obnoxiously hidden behind a pay wall I simply do not play it. F2P is also nice to try out a game and see if I want to waste time and money on it or not. Subscription based games usually cost not only money for the subscription but almost always want money for expansions too. Shit, WoW also makes good money from micro transactions nowadays so you have both there.

The problem with FTP models is that the game design changes to fit it. The focus then is not providing quality content, but providing content that encourages using the store. Every game out there that is FTP does this. Some start out mild, but always end up with various forms of PTW hidden as "convenience". A company exists to make money, to stay in business and so the main goal and focus of that company will be to encourage people to use the store. This can not be denied, though it is often rationalized with numerous excuses as to why it is acceptable.

Here is the thing. With the FTP model, as I said... they have to encourage people to spend money which has an effect on the way the produce content how it is approached. The goal is to get you into the store to spend money. With a Pay to Play model, the goal is to keep you subbing and to encourage you to buy the next content update. It is in their best interest to create quality content that keeps their subscription base logging back in and people buying the new content. FTP only cares that you buy from the store. So, the design goals are quite different which is why you always see a slide to gimmicks that make play more "convenient" if you use the store.

Of course a company can be profitable with FTP, it is a gimmick. I have seen people complain about a monthly sub, but then turn around and brag about things they obtained spending 300 bucks in a month on micro transactions. You have to be a complete fool to throw money at that crap. People justify it by saying "well, I don't have time to grind..." which is an excuse to justify their cheating. If I don't like a game, I don't play it. Paying money to circumvent a design I dislike in a game is Darwin Award behavior. You say you like the FTP model because you get to decide what you will pay for? You mean... you get to decide how you will cheat through a game that is designed with more and more mundane features to encourage people to spend more and more in the store. Great, you like that... fine... I personally think it is a waste of time that produces shit games.

I watched them destroy LoTRO chasing the WoW crowd. They dumbed down the dungeons, shortened them, made skills and abilities where you can spam keys without attention. Heck, their legendary weapon system was specifically designed to fit a FTP model. It is all lotto base where players spend money like crazy to "buy" what they don't want to grind for hours to obtain. Don't want to work on those traits? No problem, just buy them in the store. Levels taking too long? Here are some potions to buff you! Don't get me started about EQ2, that game is complete trash now due to its store.

You have heard the old saying "nothing is free"? Nothing is. You are paying for FTP, but you are paying for it in mundane content design that is filled with "encouraging" gimmicks to get you to spend real money. The entire industry is ran by marketing people who honestly... think you are a sheepish tool who can be manipulated to empty your pockets over intangible things that are worthless. It is all some idiotic commercialized approach... you know... just as you said.. "Have it your way!", just like the fast food commercials, they treat people as if they are mindless animals.

Though it seems to be working, I mean... micro transactions are very successful! /shrug

 

[Xenich]

Apparently the upcoming patch is the last update until well after the console versions are released. This is one of the problems with this kind of business model, development of major content updates is mothballed and everything is geared towards selling junk in the cash store

Yep. Everything is. Eventually you can see the content being designed to encourage such.

It is funny though. It reminds me of a guy I used to know. He was cheap... no really... BIG TIME cheap skate. He was so cheap that he tried to cut corners on everything and it almost always ended up costing him more money in the process. It is the same with the FTP who complain about paying for the game. They almost always end up paying far more a month playing the game than they would if they paid a sub. There is a reason FTP is big business. Its like handing out credit cards to the irresponsible. You watch them hang themselves and then sit back and collect the interest.

 

[Sykar]

The problem with FTP models is that the game design changes to fit it. The focus then is not providing quality content, but providing content that encourages using the store. Every game out there that is FTP does this. Some start out mild, but always end up with various forms of PTW hidden as "convenience". A company exists to make money, to stay in business and so the main goal and focus of that company will be to encourage people to use the store. This can not be denied, though it is often rationalized with numerous excuses as to why it is acceptable.

Here is the thing. With the FTP model, as I said... they have to encourage people to spend money which has an effect on the way the produce content how it is approached. The goal is to get you into the store to spend money. With a Pay to Play model, the goal is to keep you subbing and to encourage you to buy the next content update. It is in their best interest to create quality content that keeps their subscription base logging back in and people buying the new content. FTP only cares that you buy from the store. So, the design goals are quite different which is why you always see a slide to gimmicks that make play more "convenient" if you use the store.

Of course a company can be profitable with FTP, it is a gimmick. I have seen people complain about a monthly sub, but then turn around and brag about things they obtained spending 300 bucks in a month on micro transactions. You have to be a complete fool to throw money at that crap. People justify it by saying "well, I don't have time to grind..." which is an excuse to justify their cheating. If I don't like a game, I don't play it. Paying money to circumvent a design I dislike in a game is Darwin Award behavior. You say you like the FTP model because you get to decide what you will pay for? You mean... you get to decide how you will cheat through a game that is designed with more and more mundane features to encourage people to spend more and more in the store. Great, you like that... fine... I personally think it is a waste of time that produces shit games.

I watched them destroy LoTRO chasing the WoW crowd. They dumbed down the dungeons, shortened them, made skills and abilities where you can spam keys without attention. Heck, their legendary weapon system was specifically designed to fit a FTP model. It is all lotto base where players spend money like crazy to "buy" what they don't want to grind for hours to obtain. Don't want to work on those traits? No problem, just buy them in the store. Levels taking too long? Here are some potions to buff you! Don't get me started about EQ2, that game is complete trash now due to its store.

You have heard the old saying "nothing is free"? Nothing is. You are paying for FTP, but you are paying for it in mundane content design that is filled with "encouraging" gimmicks to get you to spend real money. The entire industry is ran by marketing people who honestly... think you are a sheepish tool who can be manipulated to empty your pockets over intangible things that are worthless. It is all some idiotic commercialized approach... you know... just as you said.. "Have it your way!", just like the fast food commercials, they treat people as if they are mindless animals.

Though it seems to be working, I mean... micro transactions are very successful! /shrug

There is a reason why I put "F2P" in apostrophes. I am very well aware of the many pitfalls in "F2P", but my points still stand. "F2P" can offer more flexibility and it can make things cheaper, depending on how mature you are. If you are some retard who thinks he has to throw 50 bucks at the game company whenever they release a new shiny pet, well all I can say, "your fault". Peoples retardation and inability to properly monitor themselves is no excuse to condemn every game using this model, or the model in general or people who use it. Many people are mature enough to monitor themselves, myself included. Are there plenty of abusive games out there in this regard? Sure. What to do? Fucking avoid. It's not hard.
As to your LotR example, never liked the game so don't care, but most companies who maintain a MMO did not change from subscription to "F2P" because they wanted to. Usually it meant that they could not maintain a high enough user base to warrant a subscription model and needed other incentives, where "F2P" comes in. That they could not maintain the same level of quality is directly correlated to this as well. If they had massive amount of customers they would have never been forced to change in the first place, so don't blame "F2P" for all it's woes it had.

The only "F2P" game I spent more than 5 bucks on so far in 5 years is Marvel Heroes, and considering the massive improvements Gazillion provided they damn well earned some cash for their efforts, especially considering they are working with an expensive license, I sincerely doubt that Marvel let them do their stuff for free, not to mention they must get approval for basically everything they do by Marvel.

 

[Kem0sabe]

GW2 is the biggest example of buy to play done bad, TSW on the other hand has done well by their players, even with a shit engine and minuscule dev team.