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The Elder Scrolls 5: Could it be good?
- Thread starter Andhaira
- Start date
The Ninth Circle
Scholar
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- Jan 11, 2009
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- 735
So then where exactly did the FO3 purchases come from?AndhairaX said:
bhlaab
Erudite
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2008
- Messages
- 1,787
It could be but probably won't?
I really enjoyed Morrowind, but Oblivion and Fallout were too much of a success to switch up the formula
The only hope of their games ever improving is that sooner or later everyone gets sick of Bethesda doing the same thing over and over and begin to call them out on it more. But their games come out so far apart that it's unlikely.
I really enjoyed Morrowind, but Oblivion and Fallout were too much of a success to switch up the formula
The only hope of their games ever improving is that sooner or later everyone gets sick of Bethesda doing the same thing over and over and begin to call them out on it more. But their games come out so far apart that it's unlikely.
Korgan
Arbiter
WhiskyWolf said:
FeelTheRads
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2008
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- 13,716
Andhaira: inane AND naive.
Phelot
Arcane
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- Mar 28, 2009
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- 17,908
I remember in some interview about Oblivion (I forgot who was being itnerviewed) they said that they eliminated or combined a lot of the skills since "no one ever used them" like unarmed and medium armor. Dammit I used them!
Morrowind was fun and I thought it was a great rpg too. Yeah I know it seems goofy that you can swing right into an enemy and still miss him if your stats are too low, but it's an RPG, something Oblivion fans don't understand I guess. The exploration is great. The silt Striders (or whatever they were called) were reasonable, and it was satisfying hauling a bunch of loot back to town and selling it. In Oblivion, you just fast traveled back and forth... and no matter your speed stat, you always seem to move fast, so what was the point of the stat? Morrowind had challenges... there's nothing like finding a dungeon you can't tackle yet, only to return and defeat later on. I don't know what's so bad about a challenge...
So, yeah I'd have to say that TES5 will be bad. BUT IT WILL LOOK PRETTY SO WHO CARES!
Morrowind was fun and I thought it was a great rpg too. Yeah I know it seems goofy that you can swing right into an enemy and still miss him if your stats are too low, but it's an RPG, something Oblivion fans don't understand I guess. The exploration is great. The silt Striders (or whatever they were called) were reasonable, and it was satisfying hauling a bunch of loot back to town and selling it. In Oblivion, you just fast traveled back and forth... and no matter your speed stat, you always seem to move fast, so what was the point of the stat? Morrowind had challenges... there's nothing like finding a dungeon you can't tackle yet, only to return and defeat later on. I don't know what's so bad about a challenge...
So, yeah I'd have to say that TES5 will be bad. BUT IT WILL LOOK PRETTY SO WHO CARES!
I like penis.
entertainer
Arbiter
You like penis.
I have no doubt that TES V is going to sell very well, and I have no doubt that it's going to surpass Oblivion in its scope and in its execution. Bethesda proved they are capable of being learning animals with Fallout 3.
Whether TES V will appeal to the majority of Codexers depends on two things:
- Will Todd Howard still be running the show?
- Will Bethesda hire better writers and aspire to some sort of intellectual stimulation among its fans, like it used to?
Todd's job is to create games that make the guys in Maryland rich. He's very good at doing that, so likely he'll remain. All we can hope is that somehow he is influenced by the past successes that Bethesda had when lore was more central to their games, and that Pete stops whispering promises of lengthy vacations in Cancun and hot red Lambo's in his ear.
When guys like Ted Peterson and Julian LeFay worked there, the standards for storyline, writing and dialog were much higher. They were inspired by the works of fiction they loved, and consequently their work reflected a deeper, more mysterious and unique flavor. Now everything is focused around graphics, ease of play and the dreaded immershun (although true suspension of disbelief is a staple among good, hardcore RPG's, IMO). Also, the explosion of popularity of the Sex Bawx largely contributed to the change in design philosophy the "new" BSW took. Fallout 3 is only a single step forward in the fight against brain-dead roleplaying games.
What are the chances Bethesda will 'see the light'? (insert heavy bloom pic here) Are they financially successful enough now to allow them to reach out a little more to their older (ex-)audience and dare to take some chances again?
It's all up to Todd.
Whether TES V will appeal to the majority of Codexers depends on two things:
- Will Todd Howard still be running the show?
- Will Bethesda hire better writers and aspire to some sort of intellectual stimulation among its fans, like it used to?
Todd's job is to create games that make the guys in Maryland rich. He's very good at doing that, so likely he'll remain. All we can hope is that somehow he is influenced by the past successes that Bethesda had when lore was more central to their games, and that Pete stops whispering promises of lengthy vacations in Cancun and hot red Lambo's in his ear.
When guys like Ted Peterson and Julian LeFay worked there, the standards for storyline, writing and dialog were much higher. They were inspired by the works of fiction they loved, and consequently their work reflected a deeper, more mysterious and unique flavor. Now everything is focused around graphics, ease of play and the dreaded immershun (although true suspension of disbelief is a staple among good, hardcore RPG's, IMO). Also, the explosion of popularity of the Sex Bawx largely contributed to the change in design philosophy the "new" BSW took. Fallout 3 is only a single step forward in the fight against brain-dead roleplaying games.
What are the chances Bethesda will 'see the light'? (insert heavy bloom pic here) Are they financially successful enough now to allow them to reach out a little more to their older (ex-)audience and dare to take some chances again?
It's all up to Todd.
Crispy said:It's all up to Todd.
And that's why TES is doomed.
Too bad for you. After the last official patch, crash rate was down to rare, but even before the patches my game wasn't ever broken. I did have corrupted saves, though and yes, it was terrible.
Oh boy, another ignorant illiterate who doesn't know what he's talking about yet pretends to like play RPGs. Here we go again:
As far as RP of G goes, combat in Daggerfall was nothing but simplistic. I could even easily say that it beats near everything first person that's been done so far to this day at CRPG front. It might "play" as simplistic, as a perk of it being a first person game, but underlying mechanics, how your skills affected the outcome and how your equipment compliments it is such deep that most people could never grasp it at all.
Maybe you didn't like melee combat, you didn't like having to drag the mouse around to fight, and that's ok, but to call it simplistic is stupid by any means. Try picking no combat skills and you're ratfood pretty fast, even with a daedric weapon.
Character creation in Daggerfall doesn't equate to being offered a lot of skills.
The whole advantages/disadvantages and advancement multiplier were such good ideas that effect the game a lot, likes of which have rarely been done at all in CRPGs. How many examples can anyone give that have some sort of similar feature? Fallouts, Arcanum and Bloodlines comes close, but other than Fallout, the perks/traits/backgrounds in games with a similar feature are all almost exclusively mere statistic adjustments, while Daggerfall gave you choices that affected gameplay which were exclusively available in advantages/disadvantages, things that you couldn't change in anyway whatsoever once you're done creating your character.
Skills. Daggerfall having a lot of skills being a bad thing is only as bad as Fallout or any other RPG that had underused/unjustified skills. Main idea in Daggerfall is just right: For starters, you have these linguistic skills for creatures and since easily 3/4 of the game takes place in dungeons and since any given language skill saves you the trouble of fighting creatures of that type, this was a huge improvement over anything that's ever been out there to this day. Execution wasn't not exactly as articulate or interesting as it could have been, but it's still a vital option no other game gives you, and having one language devoted to several creature types weren't exactly practical. If I remember correctly, these alone make up 10 skills. A real clutter. 2 or 3 skills to cover most to all creature types would have been perfect in my opinion.
On the other hand, you have Ethiquette and streetwise, which don't affect the game in any meaningful way at all. They affect whether you can get a random NPC to give you hints during wiki-talk or mark your map for places you're looking for and that's it, but since you will eventually find a NPC to get either in a few minutes with enough tries, these two skills are meaningless. So, ok.
You can add Running, Jumping and Swimming to the list, however, these are kind of tricky. As absurd as may sound, the games is literally 3/4 playable with these as major skills and marginally easier, because you can practically run past all creatures, make insane jumps over long pits, bridges or platforms in dungeons where you'd have to find a walking path otherwise, and you level up ultrafast. Still, from a logical standpoint, it comes forward as just ludicrous to have separate skills for these, but practically, it's not. So I'm ambivalent about these particular skills.
I have nothing to argue on skills for 6 schools of magic, it worked pretty good in my opinion, and helped with diversity a lot. Likewise the combat skills.
Once you know all of these, there really isn't a problem. Rest of the skills are useful (and let's not forget how useful skills Medical and Climbing were) and work perfectly. No cluttering.
Now, I can't object to character progression being stupid, because it really is. That's been one of the most retarded thing about TES games from day one.
Perhaps this is subjective, but apart from the questionable absurdity of being assigned royal/imperial matters at the beginning of the game, I didn't find anything laughable at all. Perhaps you will share why you did?
As far as I could observe, writing style in Daggerfall was, for the mostpart, perfectly ordinary and simple. Nothing bad, nothing good. Some of the books had good writing and good stories, and some others didn't. Game characters on the other hand, their motives, were definitely interesting, despite the plain writing.
I'd have to agree as far as most non-main quests are concerned. Especially the official guild (mages guild, fighters guild, knightly orders and religious orders) quests are atrocious in their repetation and simplicity. Not with with main quest and the other guild quests.
Translation = not really anything else?
That's so very non-descriptively subjective, I can neither agree or disagree.
Between Oblivion and Daggerfall: boring as shit main quest. Utter lack of challenge. Lack of character diversity. No political intrigue whatsoever. Uninteresting character design. Lack of gameworld options and strategies. There's more I can't think of atm.
<edit> More than enough places with hundreds of random NPCs to make a continuous income as a thief, robber or fraud (remember the banks), which is a problem literally in any other game. Thief/rogue archetype in any other game means a substitute for breaking into places and making a quick buck for a few times, because if you keep thieving around all the time, you run out of things to steal and places to rob eventually and pretty quickly. Likewise, randomization makes it possible to make a living as a generic fighter/mage, that's if you can stomach the same quests with different names and places all the time, but the option is there. Travel options (which sadly only lacked encounters). Timed quests where failing affected a small number of things. More examples to the things TES3+ lacked. MQ with some choices.</edit>
Daggerfall is one of those examplary games in RPG design for the things that were accomplished at its time. TES3+, on the other hand, did absolutely nothing noteworthy. They only managed to go with a good artistic vision for Morrowind, and that's it.
bhlaab
Erudite
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2008
- Messages
- 1,787
phelot said:
What modern RPG devs (especially bethesda) don't seem to understand is that negative reinforcement is just as important as positive reinforcement.
Not being able to use a really good piece of equipment holds a lot more meaning than having the pick of the litter. Same with quests-- it's not about picking which option you want to take, it's about your earlier choices affecting what options you can take.
Triskaedek
Novice
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2009
- Messages
- 6
denizsi said:
It may be so, but I did specify it was simply my opinion I was stating. And I stand by it; you think that
denizsi said:
, whereas I think it barely qualifies as an RPG at all.
It probably has to do with my personal conception of what an RPG should be; a game that doesn't once challenge you in any way/ doesn't even attempt to make you think once/ doesn't give any meaningful (as in: not only what may affect a two-minutes ending sequence) choices/ fails at leaving any lasting memories, being a memorable character, nice town, quotable dialogue, plot-twist or whatever/ - well, it's just not what I define as a "true" RPG.
BUT if people like a TES game, and consider Daggerfall a good RPG, so be it: it must correspond to what they are looking for in the genre -good for them.
As irrevocably anticodexian as such a statement is going to sound: to each his/her own.
Gerrard said:AndhairaX said:
:epic:
Someone invent something to put working those 4 core and 6 core PC for god sake, add TONS npc on town!!!! and give some fucking work to the cores.
This msg is for general RPG gaming.
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This msg is for general RPG gaming.
You like my english?? send me a pm and tell me how you like it.
Wyrmlord
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2008
- Messages
- 28,904
Deniszi, when I said 'broken' I was not talking about bugs, but about the difficulty.deniszi said:
When I got to level 7 and also ended up becoming a werewolf because of The Fortress Of Fhojun main quest level, the game became so easy, it was not fun anymore. You become so powerful, you no longer have that feeling of when you started out - a man trying to survive on a few rusty equipment in a large dungeon with enemies that can crush you as badly as you to them.
You are probably the biggest Daggerfall expert here; and you should know that a simple Nord Warrior with Dwarven Armor and a Dwarven Daikatana and a high Strength and Agility, is strong enough to massacre enemies, provided he has the necessary scrolls for certain spells.
MetalCraze
Arcane
Stupidity of some Codex members amazes me.Crispy said:
Stereotypical Villain said:
And also that Fallout3 had the good ol' level scaling too, where on the very early levels you were blowing mutants' heads off. Learning animals haha
Add very shitty dialogues to a dump that is your game without changing anything else and get a guaranteed praise from the Codex, because RPGs are all about dialogues.
MetalCraze said:
At the risk of sounding all butthurt, go fuck yourself skyway.
oldmanpaco
Master of Siestas
When did Skyway become MetalCraze? Damn you blink around here and everything changes.
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