The Darkness Below: a retro CRPG in the making - now available on Early Access

[Dorateen]

I was just thinking today about bumping this thread to check on the status off this project. Sounds good, and best of luck moving forward.

 

[vlzvl]

I was just thinking today about bumping this thread to check on the status off this project. Sounds good, and best of luck moving forward.

Hey Dorateen, thanx
Sometimes you deal with issues that require time and inspiration is not on the table.
Regardless, I came back in force and that only matters. Hopefully, there wont be anything else that stops the progress.
I hope the best to your module as well, I know first hand how motivated one needs to stay to conclude something of value.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Sorry for showing no face these months, as i had a terrible encounter with covid-19 and had to deal with lots of other crap.
The development of game was paused for like 2 months, until I had to get through corona, full relocation and full job obligations.

I'm fully working on the game now, like 1 month now, although due to job obligations, the development volume is decreased a bit.
I've mostly worked on game's feedback from V1 demo and you can already verify in the short GIF below that combat become
speedier and I also improved the event system (monster leaving a key).

However, due to the big pause, I realized that my code base is in need of serious refactoring, removal of bloat. I had to take
a break to realize this So, a lot of time is allocated on simplifying the game's code base internally, allowing more room for
the increased complexity that will certainly arise during the content's production. It has to be good enough then. The work on
feedback from V1 make this apparent.

Regardless, rest assured that work is continued.
The coming V2 will provide an extra level in the game's (only dungeon), with more traditional cRPG logic and more complex puzzles!
In the meantime, check the little GIF

I just had a doubt, it's Turn-Based, right?

Because the way it plays in the animated gif is weird, clicking on the weapons like in the RT blobbers isn't very ergonomic.
Might & Magic did it right with a fast combat button (same for every party member) + shortcut for fast combat (attack) + quick action (+shortcut) + spell button (+shortcut).
So, instead on clicking with characters weapon, you use the same button for everyone: fast combat+ spells or just quick combat for everyone.

fast combat= weapon attack
quick combat= default attack, being weapon or spell set as quick action.

Also, I noticed the enemy is blinking when hit, do you plan to add a splash like on the characters avatars when they get hit (like in M&M) ?

 

[vlzvl]

Sorry for showing no face these months, as i had a terrible encounter with covid-19 and had to deal with lots of other crap.
The development of game was paused for like 2 months, until I had to get through corona, full relocation and full job obligations.

I'm fully working on the game now, like 1 month now, although due to job obligations, the development volume is decreased a bit.
I've mostly worked on game's feedback from V1 demo and you can already verify in the short GIF below that combat become
speedier and I also improved the event system (monster leaving a key).

However, due to the big pause, I realized that my code base is in need of serious refactoring, removal of bloat. I had to take
a break to realize this So, a lot of time is allocated on simplifying the game's code base internally, allowing more room for
the increased complexity that will certainly arise during the content's production. It has to be good enough then. The work on
feedback from V1 make this apparent.

Regardless, rest assured that work is continued.
The coming V2 will provide an extra level in the game's (only dungeon), with more traditional cRPG logic and more complex puzzles!
In the meantime, check the little GIF

I just had a doubt, it's Turn-Based, right?

Because the way it plays in the animated gif is weird, clicking on the weapons like in the RT blobbers isn't very ergonomic.
Might & Magic did it right with a fast combat button (same for every party member) + shortcut for fast combat (attack) + quick action (+shortcut) + spell button (+shortcut).
So, instead on clicking with characters weapon, you use the same button for everyone: fast combat+ spells or just quick combat for everyone.

fast combat= weapon attack
quick combat= default attack, being weapon or spell set as quick action.

Also, I noticed the enemy is blinking when hit, do you plan to add a splash like on the characters avatars when they get hit (like in M&M) ?

Yeah, it's turn-based.
Well, I wouldn't call it weird as M&M 3-5 had buttons up-right to either do a melee attack or cast a spell and a whole lot as well.
However, my game support two actions (hands) per turn; those could not be only attack or spell but it might be reading a book (in slot) etc.
I need to implement a 'Quick action hand' which will simply ran through active character hands and trigger a 'right click' without mouse.
However, it's not as easy as it seems because all this will be played on Android as well. I need something that will work on both somewhat
similarly, perhaps generic buttons as M&M.
This is already on my list, just not with high priority, as the game can still get played as is.
I already support some key shortcuts (changeable), however the fast combat / casting shortcut is not there at the moment.
It's a feature in progress that was asked numerous times in the feedback on demo V1, take a look of how it looks like as of now:

Well, I thought of that, adding a M&M-ish big blood splash instead of EOB-ish texture flicker but chose the latter.
I might implement this second way and perhaps implementing some notion on killing i.e. sound/texture effect etc.
They might end up as options on Settings as well. But there's some difficulty on that as well, as all these are based
on timed & chained animations and will require extra time & care, which is something I plan for later.
I have another such request, like instant movement i.e. no transition. I store all such requests for a better time!!
There's a lot on my plate right now and I pick things of ultra priority

Regardless, thanx man for the feedback I already copied your very useful insight for checking it later in depth.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I have another such request, like instant movement i.e. no transition. I store all such requests for a better time!!

M&M III movement and combat speed should be the goal for all the M&M-like games, Legends of Amberland, for example, started with a way slower combat and improved a lot.

I can't say much else without playing the demo, Is there another planned soon or should I play this one?

 

[vlzvl]

I have another such request, like instant movement i.e. no transition. I store all such requests for a better time!!

M&M III movement and combat speed should be the goal for all the M&M-like games, Legends of Amberland, for example, started with a way slower combat and improved a lot.

I can't say much else without playing the demo, Is there another planned soon or should I play this one?

Yes, the V2 is coming soon and its definitely faster on combat... There are a couple fixes and addons already on it, with more already in progress (by feedback) but I also need to iron out some needed refactoring at the moment and add one or three puzzes along the way. I recommend playing the V1 (on itch.io), as the V2 will have the exact content, with the addition of an extra dungeon level and all (most) fixes from V1 feedback.

 

[Jack Dandy]

Glad you made it through, man! Lookin great!

 

[vlzvl]

It took a while longer to finish the v1.1 update, since the feedback from v1.0 was both rich enough, as well as time consuming to work on.
I worked on many, many areas on this one, mostly gameplay / mechanical and less on content and heroic stories. Some of the highlights follows:

-- v1.1 (2021-10-12)

• added: configurable hotkeys for some actions; the mouse is still required
• added: implementation of a fully dynamic mechanism of D&D-like actions, allowing unique & multiple actions per monster
• added: sign posts & named labels for doors, useful for shops, guilds etc.
• added: item equipping now shows the current damage / protection the item provides to character, as a message
• added: far greater use of hotkeys on character window, switching through different character pages entirely with hotkeys
• added: now skill experience is advanced by simple use on a battle i.e. no damage is required to be dealt (weapons/spells) or receive (armor/shield)
• added: character voices per gender and type, like death, greetings etc.
• added: secondary background music on buildings, along with optional character voices.
• added: new NPCs and portraits with improved pixelart quality
• added: elemental damage caused by either characters or monsters are shown as symbols, next to damage
• added: torch can now be used as weapon as well, while providing its lighting feature. It's used like a 'club', but not additional skill is required
• added: better information given on players on items that are not equippable / usable by a character i.e. missing skills or expertises are referred when needed
• added: implementation of passive skill checks, associated with events. Events may or may not triggered, succeeded or failed, based on skills obtained by characters.
• added: 7 new skills on Misc skill group i.e. skills that can be passively checked on events such as Awareness, Persuasion, Lore and Fitness. Demo exploits some of these skills.
• added: implemented the first two (2) trainers for skills, in town! The trainer initially which of the characters meet the skill requirements and then teach them to Initiate level, for a price.
• added: a 3rd level in the "Tomb of Dark Sorcerer" dungeon, to show off most or all the fixes / additions to this update and complete the demo quest. More puzzle oriented that all prior levels.
• added: lots of item in all areas of the demo; be sure to explore / find them all, that healing potion might make a difference later.
• added: a small side quest on Eaglemire (starting map) that involves a new area and shows a new NPC; should not take more than 10 minutes
• fixed: all current background cutscenes have their own sound effects
• fixed: depleted spells for an expertise still shows pager buttons if the number of spells spans more than a page
• fixed: new games can't be created on save/load system once all save slots have been deleted
• fixed: wrong offsets on some font characters, result of mishandling the font data
• fixed: characters could use all of the starting equipped items, regardless of their features / restrictions i.e. 2-handed
• fixed: battles were quite slow due to hit/miss animations; numerous changes were made to make for an almost instant battle
• fixed: in a battle, dead characters were allowed to keep their turn under certain conditions
• fixed: discussion options with Korin in Embergrove
• fixed: improved pixelart quality on background cutscenes
• fixed: now if a party character gets multiple damaged (in a row), consequent blood effects are shown with some pixel difference
• fixed: some stats becoming negative if the character had some condition i.e. poisoned
• devel: more refactoring on codebase, allowing more flexibility and ease of use on coming content's production

Some screenshots as always:

That was it for v1.1
I hope you like what you see and the changes in the gameplay and dynamics overall, which was my intention.
Many things couldn't just fit in that update, time-wise, hopefully those will come as single updates over the time.

There will probably not another demo release, as the game enters its production phase (finally!!).
ETA has messed up badly but what didn't that shitty year

Regardless, thanks , I would love to read some posts about all that!

Download the v1.1 from here

 

[Dorateen]

Very cool, and big milestone to head into production phase. I'm excited to jump into this. And the gnome with the John Lennon sunglasses looks great!

 

[vlzvl]

Very cool, and big milestone to head into production phase. I'm excited to jump into this. And the gnome with the John Lennon sunglasses looks great!

Thanx Dorateen, I appreciate it!!
It's about time I believe as fixes and additions never ends

I also wanted to jump into production for quite some time now but an RPG just requires this much from the very start, you know better.
Yeah, he is one of the new NPCs and he's used on a small side quest on the demo, just wanted to show off a NPC He turned to look good enough with those glasses and that smile

 

[Moaning_Clock]

Found this thread through that video



Looks really interesting, put this on my (way too long) to play list - will this be released commercially in the future?

 

[vlzvl]

Found this thread through that video
Looks really interesting, put this on my (way too long) to play list - will this be released commercially in the future?

Hey, thanks!
This preview was made just yesterday and its based on the older v1.1 demo on itch.io, I loved it
There is a newer v1.2 that is brewing, that will come perhaps next week or so, fixing and adding tons of stuff.
The game will be released sometime this year definitely.

 

[Luzur]

Im waiting for it, looks so MM im almost in tears over it not being done yet

 

[Moaning_Clock]

The game will be released sometime this year definitely.

Do you have a price tag in mind?

 

[vlzvl]

The game will be released sometime this year definitely.

Do you have a price tag in mind?

Not really.. I didn't invested time to understand the consequences of such decision. But it will be generally affected by the amount of world content I am going to provide. For example, if you check this https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/the-darkness-below-a-retro-crpg-in-the-making.118437/page-4 link, you'll realize that I've created quite the world to base my game on. Based on the content that I will be able to deliver, then I will decide the final cost. I don't really like to go above some threshold i.e. 15$. I would just love to sell it for something like 10-12$ but with many hours of gaming. I am developing it for like 4-5 years now so expecting a realistic ROI is preferrable but without making it expensive. Of course, that's my initial thinking at the moment.

 

[Tyranicon]

The game will be released sometime this year definitely.

Do you have a price tag in mind?

Not really.. I didn't invested time to understand the consequences of such decision. But it will be generally affected by the amount of world content I am going to provide. For example, if you check this https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/the-darkness-below-a-retro-crpg-in-the-making.118437/page-4 link, you'll realize that I've created quite the world to base my game on. Based on the content that I will be able to deliver, then I will decide the final cost. I don't really like to go above some threshold i.e. 15$. I would just love to sell it for something like 10-12$ but with many hours of gaming. I am developing it for like 4-5 years now so expecting a realistic ROI is preferrable but without making it expensive. Of course, that's my initial thinking at the moment.

Devs in general tend to underprice their games. The advice I got was to add 20% to what figure I thought was fair (I always underprice my games even so).

You've probably heard this before, but players avoid cheaper games because they assume it to be low effort or lacks content.

 

[Dorateen]

Classic blobber is priceless in this day and age. Name your number!

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

realistic ROI is preferrable but without making it expensive

People who care and/or can afford it will buy the game at full price, others usually wait for a discount. Set the price that you believe is right.

 

[vlzvl]

I didn't managed to complete the v1.2 demo yet but given the time is passing by, I decided to show a screenshot or three.
Most of work has been on overhauling the spell system, combat system, town levels & multifloor capability, NPCs and a heck of a lot bug fixing / small addins.
Those areas needed a lot of love and work is still continued.
Especially without a good variety and consistency on town & NPCs graphics, an immersive world couldn't never exists, for my taste anyway.
In addition, content creation is processing well, yet a lot slower now. It seems that stories & world design needs a constant reworking on asset department, with some unfortunate tradeoffs in the way. I expect this to slow down as well though, yet another thing that requires time. Regardless, a significant job that needs to be done!
Fewer screenshots this time but representative one:

This is an half-like update, so please excuse the number / variety
Hope you like it and leave a comment or three, I will appreciate it.
Thanks!

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Npcs look good

 

[Bad Sector]

The town graphics look nice too. Though instead of fading to black in outdoor (it looks like it does that in the first shot) i'd try to crossfade/fade "out" to the background to blend better. It doesn't make that much sense to fade to black in daylight :-P. You could also fade to fog but you can see the mountains so i'm not sure if that'd work.

 

[Dorateen]

I don't trust NPCs wielding a bloody sickle.

 

[vlzvl]

Npcs look good

Thanks ERYFKRAD! It's very satisfying when I can base the stories & quests on immersive NPCs that really fit with the world, music and overall atmosphere. I had an issue on that for a long time but I believe this is an issue no more. More to come for sure!

I don't trust NPCs wielding a bloody sickle.

Hey Dorateen! This world is full of monsters, bandits and otherworldly baddies as well so I wouldn't except these hardened ladies to let their homes off with anything else I assure you, these women didn't lost their chickens but rather a relative of theirs, in some god forsaken place . A sickle is the least they could carry of! But she'll probably end up being just a hardworking woman on the crops. There are surely more sinister NPCs out there for sure

The town graphics look nice too. Though instead of fading to black in outdoor (it looks like it does that in the first shot) i'd try to crossfade/fade "out" to the background to blend better. It doesn't make that much sense to fade to black in daylight :-P. You could also fade to fog but you can see the mountains so i'm not sure if that'd work.

Hey thanks Bad Sector
I understand exactly what are you saying. Actually, the objects, the terrain and generally everything fades out smoothly (transparently) to what's underneath, that is, the 2D projected background, through a simple shader code. In the first image, everything fades to far away trees and the effect becomes a little darker when the backround is the "night" version i.e. darker woods. This case doesn't involve any fog, merely fading out to backtround. I don't know any other way to make it more realistic, but yes, blending is the way

In this case, a gray fog is enabled and the shader does the same thing, although blending everything with linear fog, in about the same way. If something appears black in my scenes, its because the objects happen to blend at the place where the 2D background show dark colors i.e. dark forest (about middle on screen). I think this solves the overall problem, without causing a problem to immersion

This is what I am using basically on fragment shader:

// distance transparency
if (uDistanceTransTo > 0.0) {
float distance = distance((uMat4Identity * vec4(uCameraPosition.xyz, 1.0)).xyz, vPosition.xyz);
float t = clamp((distance - uDistanceTransFrom) / (uDistanceTransTo - uDistanceTransFrom), 0.0, 1.0);
float opacity = t * t * (3.0 - 2.0 * t);
trans_vec = vec4(1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0 - opacity);
}
...
gl_FragColor = ... * trans_vec;

 

[Bad Sector]

The reason i mentioned it is that the horizon seems to be darker before it meets the background, e.g. the pixels around the line here are a bit darker before they meet the background (you can confirm it with a color dropper in GIMP or whatever paint program you use, but should be visible in the scaled up image here):

Perhaps the background image doesn't extend to the (otherwise invisible) bottom?

(It is a very minor thing of course, i just mentioned it because it stood out a bit to me)

 

[vlzvl]

The reason i mentioned it is that the horizon seems to be darker before it meets the background, e.g. the pixels around the line here are a bit darker before they meet the background (you can confirm it with a color dropper in GIMP or whatever paint program you use, but should be visible in the scaled up image here):

Perhaps the background image doesn't extend to the (otherwise invisible) bottom?

(It is a very minor thing of course, i just mentioned it because it stood out a bit to me)

Hmm, now I understand your point. Yeah, it seems strange.. I think it may have something to do with the lighting not matching the transparency distance or something or blending mode Noted to work more on it, thanks Bad Sector It seems minor but on open areas i.e. a desert this issue is magnified.