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The Codexian Saga LP
- Thread starter The Barbarian
- Start date
Angthoron
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2007
- Messages
- 13,056
The Barbarian said:
I think that's quite alright really - sometimes even political bodies get around to casting a unanimous vote. It would be a bit EXTREME if every choice had a foam-at-your-mouth debate with various OMGWTF consequences. We've had a build-up until this point, this was the perfect spot to let out some steam from our mighty voting engines.
So from my perspective such occasional "Tensioned lead-up -> Logical follow-up" moments are actually good. Sure, they don't make for compelling arguement moments, but they're just logical. I like logical.
The Barbarian
Liturgist
As the exam season approaches grotesquely closer, the Barbarian is finding himself struggling to juggle capsules of time. As a result, he has only just now begun writing the update. It should be out in around half an hour. The tempo we will strive for over the next week or so will be an update a day. During the period of 1-10 June, however, updates will be few and far between.
Wish the Barbarian luck in the trying weeks ahead.
Wish the Barbarian luck in the trying weeks ahead.
Angthoron
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2007
- Messages
- 13,056
The Barbarian said:
Best of luck to the illustrious Barbarian with his trials. He ought to take his time and smash them with his mighty tools of trade - certainly we desire moar of our wondrous space odyssey, but nay at the cost of performance of our guide and historian.
The Barbarian
Liturgist
The Textbook SNAFU
On 3 October 267AU eight of the twelve over-strength Codexian fleets were launched into the depths of Raumen territory, in order to halt the considerable progress being made by the Hin'in. The campaign was named 'Plan XVIII', and it was to be humanity's single greatest military undertaking to date. More than three thousand Codexian vessels were to take part in a battle that would define a generation. And, at first, everything seemed to be going exactly right. The Hin'in were too caught up in trying to flatten the remaining Raumen strongholds; too committed across a broad swath of space removed from Plan XVIII's main targets. As a result, the initial battles were one-sided massacres. Both sides used wyrmhole propulsion systems, so there was little disparity there - but the humans concentrated great masses of ships against their enemy, and sent him reeling.
Dozens of small engagements were decisively resolved very agreeably. Soon, more than a hundred Hin vessels were lifeless husks decorating the spacelanes, at negligible costs to the humans. But there were signs, even then, that this would be no 'Operation Bear Tamer' Mk II. To be more specific, the humanoid aliens had an uncanny ability to co-ordinate on their forces on the battlefield. Whereas Codexian formations relied on a complex network of laser/maser comms and comm-drones, the aliens could effortlessly shuffle around their forces within systems. While the available formations were small and limited - as was the case at the onset of the campaign - the effect was far less noticeable. However, once the Codexians encountered strong Hin'in forces for the first time, as they did at Helios, everything changed. Though their ships were only slightly faster in-system (and had marginally more powerful wyrmhole drives), it was to be the telepathic ability of their senior leadership that would give the advantage to the aliens.
Helios marked a turning point. It was a drubbing. A uniquely epic, tragic drubbing. An entire human fleet fought and died at Helios. 'The Fall of the 11th' (as the defeat would come to be known) was endlessly reflected upon both in history and Codexian popular culture, thereafter. In military science, too, it was to become timeless - as a classic example of strategic overextension and the logical conclusion of an engagement with an enemy that could co-ordinate formations with such incredible efficacy. Once the Hin'in had gauged human tactics and the sensor ranges of their reconnaissance/picket vessels, they were able to combat the humans on their own terms. Though Codexian cloaking systems were supposed to be a game-changer, they did not fool any larger body of Hin forces for long. Stripped of their advantages (except in raw numbers), the Codexians saw themselves transformed from hunter to prey.
The campaign, however, was not an irrevocable disaster, at that point. Though the Battle of Helios (fought on 28 October 267AU) took the wind out of its sails, it remained a closely contested affair. Destructive encounters raged across the frontier, as human and Hin grappled for supremacy, and the Raumeni interjected where they could. Fortunately, time and experience showed that the Hin'in telepathic ability was not beyond the ken. It was a useful tool for communication, command and control. It even gave the Hin'in some limited sensory ability, when large numbers of their most sensitive leaders could utilize their powers to the same ends. But it was not a war-winner, in and of itself. As the war stretched on into November and December, casualties mounted, but human commanders adapted to Hin tactics well, and were able to score a few more smaller victories.
Yet, to their chagrin, it was to be the Hin'in who would once again draw more blood, when a Hin'in armada of some three hundred vessels surprised the elite and lavishly equipped 2nd Fleet in Keparo. The unlucky formation was badly mauled, losing upwards of fifty percent of its strength in only eight hours of fighting. Twenty-six thousand men and women perished in that short span of time. After Keparo there were few large engagements. In fact, between December 267AU and May 268AU casualties actually rose. But it was more due to a steady stream of bloody skirmishing and horrifying attrition on the 'frontline' than any single engagement. Almost a thousand vessels had been lost since the start of the campaign. Three hundred replacements had arrived, leaving the combined Codexian fleet noticeably weaker. Corresponding figures for the Hin'in cannot be certain, especially as they retained several key battle-sites, having triumphed over their human foes. Intelligence estimates put the number of Hin'in losses at somewhere around five hundred vessels of all types. It was not a favourable exchange ratio, in any case. Codexia's commanders were loathe to continue the campaign in 268AU. Any serious fighting was going to further sap the already badly depleted strength of the Codexian Navy - perhaps pushing it past the breaking point.
On the home-front, the situation was as yet calm. Though there were protests in the streets, these were largely peaceful. If the war continues to go badly, however, this could change in a disastrous instant. Codexia's leadership is flummoxed. How do we proceed?
Do you... raise war production and put further strain on your economy and domestic situation? The Hin'in bleed, and we can bleed them to death if we have the willpower!
OR
Do you... open negotiations for a settlement, in secret? At this point, a diplomatic outcome will be immensely dissatisfying (due to the concessions that would have to be made), but surely preferable to losing the war outright.
OR
Do you... continue fighting, but do so defensively? This will lower the need to strain the economy or Codexian society any further, casualties will likely remain steady (but manageable) and the Hin'in might be inclined to offer terms, once they see you are committed.
***
And yes, in retrospect, this was a pretty epic update (longest to date!).
On 3 October 267AU eight of the twelve over-strength Codexian fleets were launched into the depths of Raumen territory, in order to halt the considerable progress being made by the Hin'in. The campaign was named 'Plan XVIII', and it was to be humanity's single greatest military undertaking to date. More than three thousand Codexian vessels were to take part in a battle that would define a generation. And, at first, everything seemed to be going exactly right. The Hin'in were too caught up in trying to flatten the remaining Raumen strongholds; too committed across a broad swath of space removed from Plan XVIII's main targets. As a result, the initial battles were one-sided massacres. Both sides used wyrmhole propulsion systems, so there was little disparity there - but the humans concentrated great masses of ships against their enemy, and sent him reeling.
Dozens of small engagements were decisively resolved very agreeably. Soon, more than a hundred Hin vessels were lifeless husks decorating the spacelanes, at negligible costs to the humans. But there were signs, even then, that this would be no 'Operation Bear Tamer' Mk II. To be more specific, the humanoid aliens had an uncanny ability to co-ordinate on their forces on the battlefield. Whereas Codexian formations relied on a complex network of laser/maser comms and comm-drones, the aliens could effortlessly shuffle around their forces within systems. While the available formations were small and limited - as was the case at the onset of the campaign - the effect was far less noticeable. However, once the Codexians encountered strong Hin'in forces for the first time, as they did at Helios, everything changed. Though their ships were only slightly faster in-system (and had marginally more powerful wyrmhole drives), it was to be the telepathic ability of their senior leadership that would give the advantage to the aliens.
Helios marked a turning point. It was a drubbing. A uniquely epic, tragic drubbing. An entire human fleet fought and died at Helios. 'The Fall of the 11th' (as the defeat would come to be known) was endlessly reflected upon both in history and Codexian popular culture, thereafter. In military science, too, it was to become timeless - as a classic example of strategic overextension and the logical conclusion of an engagement with an enemy that could co-ordinate formations with such incredible efficacy. Once the Hin'in had gauged human tactics and the sensor ranges of their reconnaissance/picket vessels, they were able to combat the humans on their own terms. Though Codexian cloaking systems were supposed to be a game-changer, they did not fool any larger body of Hin forces for long. Stripped of their advantages (except in raw numbers), the Codexians saw themselves transformed from hunter to prey.
The campaign, however, was not an irrevocable disaster, at that point. Though the Battle of Helios (fought on 28 October 267AU) took the wind out of its sails, it remained a closely contested affair. Destructive encounters raged across the frontier, as human and Hin grappled for supremacy, and the Raumeni interjected where they could. Fortunately, time and experience showed that the Hin'in telepathic ability was not beyond the ken. It was a useful tool for communication, command and control. It even gave the Hin'in some limited sensory ability, when large numbers of their most sensitive leaders could utilize their powers to the same ends. But it was not a war-winner, in and of itself. As the war stretched on into November and December, casualties mounted, but human commanders adapted to Hin tactics well, and were able to score a few more smaller victories.
Yet, to their chagrin, it was to be the Hin'in who would once again draw more blood, when a Hin'in armada of some three hundred vessels surprised the elite and lavishly equipped 2nd Fleet in Keparo. The unlucky formation was badly mauled, losing upwards of fifty percent of its strength in only eight hours of fighting. Twenty-six thousand men and women perished in that short span of time. After Keparo there were few large engagements. In fact, between December 267AU and May 268AU casualties actually rose. But it was more due to a steady stream of bloody skirmishing and horrifying attrition on the 'frontline' than any single engagement. Almost a thousand vessels had been lost since the start of the campaign. Three hundred replacements had arrived, leaving the combined Codexian fleet noticeably weaker. Corresponding figures for the Hin'in cannot be certain, especially as they retained several key battle-sites, having triumphed over their human foes. Intelligence estimates put the number of Hin'in losses at somewhere around five hundred vessels of all types. It was not a favourable exchange ratio, in any case. Codexia's commanders were loathe to continue the campaign in 268AU. Any serious fighting was going to further sap the already badly depleted strength of the Codexian Navy - perhaps pushing it past the breaking point.
On the home-front, the situation was as yet calm. Though there were protests in the streets, these were largely peaceful. If the war continues to go badly, however, this could change in a disastrous instant. Codexia's leadership is flummoxed. How do we proceed?
Do you... raise war production and put further strain on your economy and domestic situation? The Hin'in bleed, and we can bleed them to death if we have the willpower!
OR
Do you... open negotiations for a settlement, in secret? At this point, a diplomatic outcome will be immensely dissatisfying (due to the concessions that would have to be made), but surely preferable to losing the war outright.
OR
Do you... continue fighting, but do so defensively? This will lower the need to strain the economy or Codexian society any further, casualties will likely remain steady (but manageable) and the Hin'in might be inclined to offer terms, once they see you are committed.
***
And yes, in retrospect, this was a pretty epic update (longest to date!).
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2008
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- 11,370
How are the Raumen coping? Are they only managing to raise sporadic skirmishes to annoy Codexian and Hin'in forces? I'm assuming the battles are raging mostly in their territories, with Codexian and Hin'in worlds untouched as of yet, or is this assumption mistaken?
Personally leaning towards C, but not hoping for the Hin'in to offer terms - I'd like this as a delaying tactic until we manage to crack the enemy's telepathy and crush them.
If we wanted to negotiate with them we should've just taken the pact in the first place.
Personally leaning towards C, but not hoping for the Hin'in to offer terms - I'd like this as a delaying tactic until we manage to crack the enemy's telepathy and crush them.
If we wanted to negotiate with them we should've just taken the pact in the first place.
A makes no sense. they have already proven they're twice as better than we are at the "bleeding" business
C is pretty much the same as A. we withdraw, they attack since they think we're pussies or something and then they can just put our systems under "siege" and slowly bleed us to death or wait for an opportunity to annihilate us (if civil war/unrest doesn't kill us first)
so, as much as it pains me, i have to choose B
C is pretty much the same as A. we withdraw, they attack since they think we're pussies or something and then they can just put our systems under "siege" and slowly bleed us to death or wait for an opportunity to annihilate us (if civil war/unrest doesn't kill us first)
so, as much as it pains me, i have to choose B
The Barbarian
Liturgist
The Raumeni aren't coping, really, they're a spent force - on the verge of a general collapse. They're still tying down Hin'in forces, though, which is quite nice of them. The opportunity to keep them as major players has been overlooked in choices past.
Codexian and Hin'in worlds are entirely untouched, hitherto.
Conkrete Knight
Educated
All of them are going to cost us dearly
I tend to toward taking A, if we are lucky our industry is more powerfull and we can outproduce them.
B is, well maybe the most sane choice, but pride does not allow us to take it.
The shame would be a stigma for years to come, think Vietnam.
C might give us time to find a game winner, but again,risky as hell.
So A, die with honour
Seeing the votes so far, I am probably going to be the only one voting this, and I can't really blame people for choosing an alternative.
Might however throw my vote with the B lot if it's going to be a close one.
I tend to toward taking A, if we are lucky our industry is more powerfull and we can outproduce them.
B is, well maybe the most sane choice, but pride does not allow us to take it.
The shame would be a stigma for years to come, think Vietnam.
C might give us time to find a game winner, but again,risky as hell.
So A, die with honour
Seeing the votes so far, I am probably going to be the only one voting this, and I can't really blame people for choosing an alternative.
Might however throw my vote with the B lot if it's going to be a close one.
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- 11,370
The Barbarian said:
Hm, this does mean that if we draw a ceasefire now it's likely we won't have anything to show for it except a more experienced but battered fleet, while the Hin'in get most of what they came for in the first place, pushing their borders right to the frontier of Codexian-inhabited worlds.
That's too risky.
To clarify further, Barbarian, does Option C involve withdrawing back into our own borders or does it merely dictate that we begin holding the line with what we already have, not committing any forces into further major offensives into Hin'in-held territory?
taplonaplo
Scholar
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2008
- Messages
- 628
A, we have done it before and we shall do so again.
Heechee
Liturgist
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 225
C - this choice will lead to 1) necessary breathing space for a technological or doctrinal discovery which would turm the tide, 2) generation of badly needed intel on the enemy over time, 3) stronger position during potential negotiations
A carries a significant danger of internal socio-economic implosion (followed by game over), it is also a blind bet - we do not have enough intel on the adversary's production capabilities/forces in being to plan for a decisive strike of any sort.
B is the worst by far. They would very likely take over the whole Raumeni space and dig in there. That would lead to a strategic disadvantage of collosal proportions. They also displayed they do think in terms of realpolitik (as opposed to some on this council), which means they would probably exploit our weaker position, in due time.
A carries a significant danger of internal socio-economic implosion (followed by game over), it is also a blind bet - we do not have enough intel on the adversary's production capabilities/forces in being to plan for a decisive strike of any sort.
B is the worst by far. They would very likely take over the whole Raumeni space and dig in there. That would lead to a strategic disadvantage of collosal proportions. They also displayed they do think in terms of realpolitik (as opposed to some on this council), which means they would probably exploit our weaker position, in due time.
- Joined
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- 10,152
We cannot do A. Codexian society is not very stable, we have been unstable ever since we united, and we have only grown less stable since. The losses we would suffer under this stratagem could very well be dire enough to have our population rise against us on some worlds, and at that point, we will have to pull back almost our armed forces(some to keep the situation back home from going overboard, and the rest because staying would just be a slaughter). Also, it will not leave us with enough forces to subdue the Raumen, even if we should win.
No, we must engage the Hin on our own turf, and by our own rules. My proposal can be summarized to two points: 1), fight defensively where we can use powerful, stationary communication arrays to negate the Hin's telepathy. Using our cloaking will also prevent them from scouting our position at a safe distance. 2) use fast FTL equipped frigates to strike at the Hin supply lines and patrols. This of course assumes the Hin has no such capabilities.
To put it more concisely: C.
No, we must engage the Hin on our own turf, and by our own rules. My proposal can be summarized to two points: 1), fight defensively where we can use powerful, stationary communication arrays to negate the Hin's telepathy. Using our cloaking will also prevent them from scouting our position at a safe distance. 2) use fast FTL equipped frigates to strike at the Hin supply lines and patrols. This of course assumes the Hin has no such capabilities.
To put it more concisely: C.
Angthoron
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2007
- Messages
- 13,056
Currently leaning to Option C, however this does lead to a bit of a problem, depending, as Councillor Treave said, on whether we withdraw to our borders or fight on the grounds we've "gained" so far.
If it's fighting for our "gains", then all for that. If we move out of the Raumen sectors we currently control, then no, we definitely should not do that. Fighting offensively right now isn't much of an option, we need to restock our fleets and research whatever we can at the moment. As I said on our previous meeting, ladies and gentlemen, we need a device to disrupt the communications of these creatures. Perhaps the Raumen may share some knowledge, perhaps our scientists are going to figure it out themselves, but we need it. The time we spend on the defensive may help us find a lucky break - I'm sure we've had dead and live specimen collected by now.
Oh, and I presume option C means we keep rebuilding our fleet at the "current" rate?
Hmm... However, even if it does mean complete withdrawal, bleeding them out with our FTL defences and then delivering a massive counter-attack is also a good idea, as comrade Jaedar points out.
If it's fighting for our "gains", then all for that. If we move out of the Raumen sectors we currently control, then no, we definitely should not do that. Fighting offensively right now isn't much of an option, we need to restock our fleets and research whatever we can at the moment. As I said on our previous meeting, ladies and gentlemen, we need a device to disrupt the communications of these creatures. Perhaps the Raumen may share some knowledge, perhaps our scientists are going to figure it out themselves, but we need it. The time we spend on the defensive may help us find a lucky break - I'm sure we've had dead and live specimen collected by now.
Oh, and I presume option C means we keep rebuilding our fleet at the "current" rate?
Hmm... However, even if it does mean complete withdrawal, bleeding them out with our FTL defences and then delivering a massive counter-attack is also a good idea, as comrade Jaedar points out.
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2009
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If we discover a device to disrupt their telepathy, we will have won the war. The Hin are arrogant, and it is highly unlikely they have backup systems in place. But before we can do this, we need some specimen, preferably live ones, and I don't see that happening any time soon.
wjw
Augur
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2007
- Messages
- 287
Perhaps we can reanimate some of the dead Hi'in?
All the choices seem bad. But B sure is the worst. We would be complete fools to negotiate something after betraying them last time.
Option A is risky. We could outbleed them. We could gain victory. But what's the cost? The Raumen will keep struggling to hold their territory, turning it into a guerilla warzone. The Phyrr were united and surrenderd as a whole, the Raumen will never do this. Our homelands will be poor, and it will take a long time to recover. This might be okay if the enemy is identified as pure terror. But this is not the case ... yet.
So what remains is option C. Ugh. I really hate this option too, cause it gives little perspective on a bright future. However: The Hi'in will have to keep the Raumen under control, their Guerilla actions might be usefull to us, giving us the opportunity to ocassionaly strike our foes in the soft spot. We are fast, we are invisible, we can be anywhere. We must use this assets to our advantage while holding the line.
Option C!
All the choices seem bad. But B sure is the worst. We would be complete fools to negotiate something after betraying them last time.
Option A is risky. We could outbleed them. We could gain victory. But what's the cost? The Raumen will keep struggling to hold their territory, turning it into a guerilla warzone. The Phyrr were united and surrenderd as a whole, the Raumen will never do this. Our homelands will be poor, and it will take a long time to recover. This might be okay if the enemy is identified as pure terror. But this is not the case ... yet.
So what remains is option C. Ugh. I really hate this option too, cause it gives little perspective on a bright future. However: The Hi'in will have to keep the Raumen under control, their Guerilla actions might be usefull to us, giving us the opportunity to ocassionaly strike our foes in the soft spot. We are fast, we are invisible, we can be anywhere. We must use this assets to our advantage while holding the line.
Option C!
laclongquan
Arcane
Crap! Our war techs relied on wyrmhole and cloak. cloak got negated by telepathy, a fact I should have counted on before. we are equal on wymhole.
I still incline toward A. The war is at midpoint. there's still reason to continue, since the Hiin got their resources strained from fighting the Raumen and pacified their gained planets, and fighting with us. They may be stronger than us but those three factors will bring them to their knees. Remember Napoleon and his Winter Campaign. We are not even at the same stage as the Ruskies yet.
Continue fighting! After a critical point the Raumen will revolt on their conquered territory, further distract the HIin. At that time it will be the moment to counterattack.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
I still incline toward A. The war is at midpoint. there's still reason to continue, since the Hiin got their resources strained from fighting the Raumen and pacified their gained planets, and fighting with us. They may be stronger than us but those three factors will bring them to their knees. Remember Napoleon and his Winter Campaign. We are not even at the same stage as the Ruskies yet.
Continue fighting! After a critical point the Raumen will revolt on their conquered territory, further distract the HIin. At that time it will be the moment to counterattack.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
Surprice, surprise the Hin' had long range telepathic communication... I have to ponder on our choices for a while and return though...
In honor of our lost brethren of the fleet I shall wear black for the remainder of this term, we should have known better and at least I had serious suspicion...
In honor of our lost brethren of the fleet I shall wear black for the remainder of this term, we should have known better and at least I had serious suspicion...
Angthoron
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2007
- Messages
- 13,056
Councillor laclongquan has a good point as well. We've lost a thousand ships. The Hin'in lost about half of that to us - and an unknown number to the Raumen in the initial stages. It's not quite just the case that we're being beaten, no. Our military simply didn't have enough time to fully adjust to the mobility of a fleet fuelled by telepaths. As we become more experienced, we will be able to combat them better - and pulling out, IF option C is a pull-out to own territories option - will mean that they'll have enough time to subjugate the Raumen akin to the WW2 events. Of course subjugating the worlds won't mean being their masters, merely that they've had to spend even more resources on trying to keep even more Raumen under control.
Now, the thing is, we must continue putting the strain on their fleet while strengthening ours, and both A and C offer us this option. The big problem with C is, if our fleets are somehow wiped out, we're back to the situation of war with the Raumen - except Raumen turned out to be friendly, these guys not so much. Therefore I'd say that C sounds like the most viable option of the two.
Option B isn't even an option!
Now, the thing is, we must continue putting the strain on their fleet while strengthening ours, and both A and C offer us this option. The big problem with C is, if our fleets are somehow wiped out, we're back to the situation of war with the Raumen - except Raumen turned out to be friendly, these guys not so much. Therefore I'd say that C sounds like the most viable option of the two.
Option B isn't even an option!
Conkrete Knight
Educated
The problem with C is that we risk to fight a war on our on turf as soon as the Raumenei are gone.
Which of would be a disaster for our economy and our society.
On the other hand it might fuel patriotic/nationalistic sentiments.
The notion that the Raumenei should rebel makes no sense, not now.
Why should you fight and risk the survival of the clan to exchange one occupation with another?
They are traders not warriors, resistance would net no profit.
We would need to offer the clans something in exchange, and given our current relationship they won't even listen.
Edit:All of this is of course assuming the Hi'in are not utilizing genocide to end the Raumenei problem once and for all.
Which of would be a disaster for our economy and our society.
On the other hand it might fuel patriotic/nationalistic sentiments.
The notion that the Raumenei should rebel makes no sense, not now.
Why should you fight and risk the survival of the clan to exchange one occupation with another?
They are traders not warriors, resistance would net no profit.
We would need to offer the clans something in exchange, and given our current relationship they won't even listen.
Edit:All of this is of course assuming the Hi'in are not utilizing genocide to end the Raumenei problem once and for all.
GarfunkeL
Racism Expert
A
Raumen had bled them, we have bled them. No plan survives contact with an unknown enemy - now we know and knowing is half the battle!
So let us ramp up the production, enforce conscription and fight like we haven't fought since the 1st Contact War!
FOR CODEXIA!
Raumen had bled them, we have bled them. No plan survives contact with an unknown enemy - now we know and knowing is half the battle!
So let us ramp up the production, enforce conscription and fight like we haven't fought since the 1st Contact War!
FOR CODEXIA!
Conkrete Knight
Educated
root said:
I am aware that the Raumenei as a faction are no more, and that most clans won't talk to us at the moment.
My comment was directet at
and
I simply do not believe that the Raumenei will fight back if their navies are no more, not without an incentive to do so.
In fact i believe it to be more likely that they are going to collaborate with the Hi'in, if their clan can profit from it.
"the clans" in my post stood for individual clans, not the Raumenei as a whole.
As they are not a single faction any more,causing rebel sentiment would mean striking a deal with single clans.
A most tedious process of course.
Sorry if I was unclear, it will not happen again.
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